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[Lunatic_Gamer]

With Starfield being the center of the Xbox 2023 Showcase last week, Bethesda gave us a deep dive into one of the biggest games this generation. The biggest question after the show(s) was: why is it 30fps on Xbox Series X and Series S and not 60fps? In this IGN Performance preview, we dive into the details shared by the team, the revealed PC minimum and recommended specifications, and how the Creation Engine 2 works, comparing the previous games to gauge some of the potential reasons why the team might have chosen 30fps. We also compare the improvements over the previous showing, enhancements within the engine, and much more. So get ready to blast off in a rocket fuelled Starfield performance preview.

0:00 - Introduction
0:27 - Why might it be 30fps and Deeper into the Creation Engine
3:39 - PC Specifications and Graphics impact
4:25 - Testing the older games on Xbox Series X and PC, what can we learn?
9:29 - What this may mean for Starfield & improvements
12:57 - The physics, details of Starfield & how it has improved
16:18 - Closing the question, why might the developers have chosen 30fps on consoles?

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Can't wait for NeoGaf expert software developers and hardware engineers to break this one down!

 

[kyussman]

Yea,having a less smooth gameplay experience always makes sense doesn't it.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Interesting. Guess I might finally get to see that DDR5 pay off.

 

[darrylgorn]

Because moneys.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Yea,having a less smooth gameplay experience always makes sense doesn't it.

This game likely has some other things going on that are very cpu intensive. If you bought a console expecting to always get high levels of performance then I dont know what to tell you. Cross gen is over, the ps5 and series x are not super computers.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

This game likely has some other things going on that are very cpu intensive. If you bought a console expecting to always get high levels of performance then I dont know what to tell you. Cross gen is over, the ps5 and series x are not super computers.

But according to 'experts' here, there's nothing next-gen about Starfield. Check-mate.

 

[Silver Wattle]

So, at times the game runs at 60 but they cap it at 30 "just cause"? have an uncapped option you buffoons.

 

[Umbasaborne]

But according to 'experts' here, there's nothing next-gen about Starfield. Check-mate.

Those experts need to get some perspective. Something like horizon forbidden west has more striking and vibrant visuals sure, but that game doesn’t have the type of object remembrance that bethesda game studios do, now multiply that over 1,000 plus planet sized maps. Starfield and horizon forbidden west are both very impressive, but for different reasons

 

[killatopak]

The engine sucks. We've been saying this since Oblivion.

 

[HL3.exe]

Wait, is it still debatable that multiple simulated systems colliding with each other + all the item persistence that's going on under the hood is not taxing on the CPU / IO?

Well then 'yes', 60fps probably is easily feasible if you're only taking static rendering into account. Thanks big brained Gaf.

Edit: For everyone saying the engine is terrible have barely a clue what 'engine' means I bet. Their way of memory management, entity tracking and runtime simulation consistency has always been pretty incredible. Janky because of the underlying realtime simulation that's going on, but spares on the 'fakery' most tech rely on. If you're only looking at visuals then yeah, not sure what you want me to say.

 

[feynoob]

You are setting up yourself for a failure if you are expecting smooth 60 fps from Bethesda.

 

[Gudji]

Todd Howard: "Game runs great fortunately often way above 60 FPS and sometimes 60 FPS".

Also Todd Howard: "Cap that bitch".

 

[MMaRsu]

So, at times the game runs at 60 but they cap it at 30 "just cause"? have an uncapped option you buffoons.

Yeah nothing makes a great experience like dropping from 50 to 35 fps all over the place

 

[feynoob]

Todd Howard: "Game runs great fortunately often way above 60 FPS and sometimes 60 FPS".

Also Todd Howard: "Cap that bitch".

 

[Roxkis_ii]

The parade of exsuces continue.

 

[diffusionx]

It's their game, their decision on how to best present it. If you don't like it, build a PC and spend whatever you need to play it the way you want to.

 

[kyussman]

This game likely has some other things going on that are very cpu intensive. If you bought a console expecting to always get high levels of performance then I dont know what to tell you. Cross gen is over, the ps5 and series x are not super computers.

I don't own a next gen console and I couldn't care less what framerate it runs at.....at this point I doubt I'll ever play it tbh,I think I'm sitting this gen out,it's had nothing to interest me so far.

 

[feynoob]

It's their game, their decision on how to best present it. If you don't like it, build a PC and spend whatever you need to play it the way you want to.

 

[GymWolf]

You are setting up yourself for a failure if you are expecting smooth 60 fps from Bethesda.

They said this is their best game performance\bug wise i think.

At least on pc i expect almost stable 60 for the few people with series 7000\4000, strong cpus and ddr5.

(i'm not one of those pessimists "the pc is doomed" )

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah nothing makes a great experience like dropping from 50 to 35 fps all over the place

Yep, i prefer locked 30 over a dancing framerate.

 

[feynoob]

They said this is their best game performance\bug wise i think.

At least on pc i expect almost stable 60 for the few people with series 7000\4000, strong cpus and ddr5.

(i'm not one of those pessimists "the pc is doomed" )

The problem is that this is Bethesda game. Don't expect it to work like other games.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

I was playing FF7R today on my PS5 and I switched to 30fps mode just to see what it’s like and it felt and looked terrible to me. It was the first time I had seen a game running at 30fps in front of me in a long long time and I started wondering how I tolerated it in the past. 30fps feels wrong and I refuse to play any modern game on modern hardware at 30fps in 2023. I’m never going back to 30fps if I can help it, not on PC and not on my PS5.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Another excellent and very informative video by NXGamer.

One criticism I do have however, is that he predicates his discussion on the GPU rendering load on them using a deferred renderer at 4K resolution as a reason for the 30fps cap on console, however, I'm pretty sure we know Starfield doesn't actually render at native 4K on XSX but uses reconstruction to get up to 4K. So with the majority of the GPU rendering workload being resolution dependent, by internally rendering at something a little over 1080p, and using an AI reconstruction technique to get up to 4K they'll be saving considerable performance than rendering at 4K natively; which is what NXGamer's tests on Fallout and Skyrim were based on.

All that said, I think he's right on the money on the CPU workload discussion and I think the increased CPU work due to procedural generation, advanced physics, and animation is the real reason for the 30fps cap. Well... that combined with the bus contention issues of XSX's split memory pools.

 

[GymWolf]

The problem is that this is Bethesda game. Don't expect it to work like other games.

I think i only played f4 at launch on pc (previous games were all on console starting with morrowind on xbox), i don't remember it being terrible in terms of performance, and i had a shitty pc compared to what i have now.

Also, i'm usually uber-lucky with not having much bugs in supposedly super bugged games so...

 

[Zuzu]

For the people saying that they should offer an unlocked fps mode for VRR displays because it sometimes goes up to 60fps this may not be a good option.

Digital Foundry recently explained that if it’s a cpu limitation problem then the frame times might be so variable when the frame rate is unlocked that even with VRR the experience would not be smooth. If it’s gpu limited then VRR would help because the frame times would be more consistent.

Locking it to 30 may be the only way they can get a consistent frame time performance and the smoothness that produces.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Yeah nothing makes a great experience like dropping from 50 to 35 fps all over the place

Which would then illicit complaints of why didn’t they cap this??

 

[Drizzlehell]

 

[DryvBy]

So, at times the game runs at 60 but they cap it at 30 "just cause"? have an uncapped option you buffoons.

DF already covered this. The 60 fps could be look at the sky only or a small corner in a room with no detail. Starfield isn't even a steady 30 fps so 60 is out of the question.

 

[LeftThumbstick]

I honestly don’t care if it’s 30fps as long as the gameplay and story are good. Been playing 30fps games my whole life and thoroughly enjoyed myself so far.

Would it be better at 60? Perhaps but at the end of the day as long as the game itself is good then it really doesn’t matter. To those that do care, go ahead and save up £1000+ and build yourself a PC. Go and enjoy yourself and stop expecting £450 hardware to achieve 60fps in all instances.

 

[Senua]

The parade of exsuces continue.

In depth analysis =/= excuses, buddy guy

 

[feynoob]

The parade of exsuces continue.

Out of touch

 

[MMaRsu]

You are setting up yourself for a failure if you are expecting smooth 60 fps from Bethesda.

*On console

 

[Silver Wattle]

Yep, i prefer locked 30 over a dancing framerate.

I had typed out a reply about an option for uncapped being the best of both worlds but then I realised why the fuck do I even care about the Xbox version?

 

[feynoob]

*On console

Even on PC, I don't trust them.
Look at recent PC ports.

 

[poodaddy]

The parade of exsuces continue.

I can always count on balanced, thoughtful, inciteful contributions from someone who can't be bothered to spell excuses correctly.

 

[lh032]

*On console

*looks at PC ports performance recently.

 

[M1chl]

Will play on PC, if 7900x, RTX4090 coupled with 64GB RAM can run it better than console.

BUT

I have my doubts, given have F4 VR runs for example (without mods)

 

[Mister Wolf]

Demanding open world games have always been 30fps on consoles, every generation. You get what you pay for.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Those experts need to get some perspective. Something like horizon forbidden west has more striking and vibrant visuals sure, but that game doesn’t have the type of object remembrance that bethesda game studios do, now multiply that over 1,000 plus planet sized maps. Starfield and horizon forbidden west are both very impressive, but for different reasons

wow... The object persistence excuse again.
Apparently, Bethesda engine stores object information... in the CPU, instead of RAM/SSD like every other game doing it.
Heck, for 1000 planets they might even store some in the PSU or even in the game controller!

 

[feynoob]

wow... The object persistence excuse again.
Apparently, Bethesda engine stores object information... in the CPU, instead of RAM/SSD like every other game doing it.
Heck, for 1000 planets they might even store some in the PSU or even in the game controller!

No game has as much interaction as Bethesda games.

 

[Ar¢tos]

No game has as much interaction as Bethesda games.

I'm not saying the opposite, but object persistence used as excuse for high cpu load is dumb, it's not how it works at all.

 

[feynoob]

I'm not saying the opposite, but object persistence used as excuse for high cpu load is dumb, it's not how it works at all.

You need to record those information and keep track of them.
They are like those apps who are active in the background.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

I'm not saying the opposite, but object persistence used as excuse for high cpu load is dumb, it's not how it works at all.

Oh for fucks sake, when people say object persistency they don't mean that you drop one sandwich. They mean huge outposts / bases that you can build anywhere. Like this:

 

[Salz01]

If they are so smart and talented, why can’t they at least implement a 40/120hz mode. Nobody asks them that?

 

[Lucifers Beard]

This game likely has some other things going on that are very cpu intensive. If you bought a console expecting to always get high levels of performance then I dont know what to tell you. Cross gen is over, the ps5 and series x are not super computers.

Honestly mate, I wouldn’t waste your time. It has been said on more than one occasion but there are still those who think that 60fps is achievable by waving some kind of magic fucking wand and lowering some graphics settings.

You’re absolutely on the money though. Series X is not a super computer, it’s a mid range PC at best now. They were able to hit 60fps in most cross gen titles. That ship will be sailing with (the now) current gen games of this kind of scale.

I’ll say it one more time though, if you want 60fps, get a decent PC. It’ll certainly cost you more than £450 though.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Oh for fucks sake, when people say object persistency they don't mean that you drop one sandwich. They mean huge outposts / bases that you can build anywhere. Like this:

They could always set a limit to construction to keep a max framerate, like the thermometer in Dreams.

 

[LazyParrot]

but that game doesn’t have the type of object remembrance that bethesda game studios do, now multiply that over 1,000 plus planet sized maps. Starfield and horizon forbidden west are both very impressive, but for different reasons

I've seen this explanation thrown around a few times on this board, but I don't think anyone ever explained why keeping track of random shit the player dropped would be particularly taxing on the hardware. It's not like the game actually wastes CPU cycles on keeping track of a sandwich you dropped on Planet A while you're off in space or doing a mission on Planet B.

I mean, Morrowind did this over 20 years ago without making PCs blow up. The game just makes a note for the area you're in with the coordinates of any objects you've dropped so they load in whenever you access that area.

 

[Riky]

It probably runs at 60fps when looking at the sky for all we know, obviously it isn't consistent enough to enable even a VRR mode. 60fps would be better but I'd rather have a solid properly frame paced 30fps than a wildly fluctuating 30-60fps that can't even stay in the VRR range.
Maybe a 40fps at 120hz will be an option down the line.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

They could always set a limit to construction to keep a max framerate, like the thermometer in Dreams.

The limit is already there. See, this is what they mean by creative vision. They could lower the building limit. Scale down procedural generation. Limit AI simulation. But they decided to keep those things and settle on 30FPS. Great decision.