Support NeoGAF

[TGO]

Huh? So you are in fact taking the UK numbers and applying that to the whole world?

Resident Evil 4 has sold 4 mill as of April
Do you believe that on Playstation where most big AAA games have a trend of selling over 2 million at launch.
That between the PS4/PS5, Resident Evil 4 sold less than 2 million and the rest was on PC.

Simple question.

 

[German Hops]

Well, bruh, there was a bigger install base when XV was released.

What do they realistically expect?

 

[ClosBSAS]

All good if u want Sony exclusivity but after the FF 15 fiasco, I don't see why they are surprised. Delay release on PC, make it egs exclusive and you got yourself a not so successful launch.

It will sell well to us, but to SE it will probably be considered a flop u less it sells 10 million.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Resident Evil 4 has sold 4 mill as of April
Do you believe that on Playstation where most big AAA games have a trend of selling over 2 million at launch.
That between the PS4/PS5, Resident Evil 4 sold less than 2 million and the rest was on PC.

Simple question.

Simple question: do you think the entire world is the UK?

https://steamdb.info/app/2050650/charts/

Estimates say it sold around 2M on steam. I know PC gaming is a sore spot for you but Capcom does very well on Steam. Your 10% of sales statement is just not true and you pulled it out of your ass.

Despite all that I like you TGO

 

[LiquidMetal14]

In a digital world, why even pre-order? I have intent to buy and won't pre order. Means nothing unless you're measuring traditional retail.

 

[Nautilus]

Interesting how you're distorting that quote to the literal opposite of what it says. What it says is that what Final Fantasy is is what its developers decide it is at any given time, not what you want or what you grew up with.

Incidentally, Yoshida-san and his team pretty literally saved the Final Fantasy franchise when it was at its historical lowest pulling what's nothing short of a miracle, so they earned themselves a relevant say on what Final Fantasy is or should be.



It doesn't matter who you blame. What matters is that a failure of Final Fantasy XVI would inevitably have serious and direct consequences for a whole bunch of people. Wishing that it fails means wishing that those people suffer because they're making a game that's not for you. You don't get to separate the two things because they're not separate. One is a direct consequence of the other.

PS: you don't represent any "fanbase." If I had a nickel for any person with a different idea I heard in the 33 years I've played this franchise who thought they represented the majority or a sizable part of the fanbase, I'd be likely able to go out and buy myself a new 60 inch TV on the house.

I'll tell you a secret from the experience of these 33 years. The vast majority of the "fanbase" can't care less about what kind of order or modality they have to press the button to have good guy stick sword into bad guy. They want a story that can move them with characters they can identify with. That's it.

I'm not distorting anything. FF XVI is a Final Fantasy game simply because Square owns the IP and it gets to decide what to do with it. If FF XVII was a kart racer, it would still be a FF because Square deemed it so. But just because Square wishes to make that kind of game, doesn't mean I and the others recognize it as Final Fantasy and eat it up. XVI isn't Final Fantasy for me and most of tye fanbase, and probably never will be.

About the second part: Sure, you're right. That's why voting with your wallet is so powerful. It hits companies on where matters most: The money. But that's on the company and the people directly responsible for the game. Just like the quote you used that Yoshida said, about the directors dictating what FF is everytime they make a new entry, its also their responsibility for the success of the game. If it works, they should be applauded. If they fail, they should be critisized. The costumer is the one that will decide if they want that is offered, being it true to the franchise or not, with their money. They are not responsible for making sure that the game succeeds, they are there to be entertained. I will wish for what I want. If it comes to pass or not is not only my call, is of the fanbase and the consumers in general.

 

[TGO]

Simple question: do you think the entire world is the UK?

https://steamdb.info/app/2050650/charts/

Estimates say it sold around 2M on steam. I know PC gaming is a sore spot for you but Capcom does very well on Steam. Your 10% of sales statement is just not true and you pulled it out of your ass.

Despite all that I like you TGO

So the answer is yes then.
and I like you too BennyBlanco
And no, I believe the sales data released indicates that sales of 4 million for Resident Evil 4 are primarily a high percentage between PS4 & PS5
Which I would say were over 2 million followed by PC, Then Xbox *as of April 2023
You just shared an estimate from steam that sales of the PC version have reached nearly 2 million as of today.
so what are the total sales across all platforms then now.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

They've done serious damage to the brand over the last 20 years and people aren't as tuned into Final Fantasy as a result.

The idea to pander to larger crowds with action gameplay is absolutely a dilution of the brand. They've been on a really poor trajectory since FF13 and FF15 didn't resolve that.

It's no surprise that people want to take a wait-and-see approach with 16.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

They've done serious damage to the brand over the last 20 years and people aren't as tuned into Final Fantasy as a result.

yes.

The idea to pander to larger crowds with action gameplay is absolutely a dilution of the brand.

no

They've been on a really poor trajectory since FF13 and FF15 didn't resolve that.

absolutely

It's no surprise that people want to take a wait-and-see approach with 16.

yes.

 

[Madflavor]

A lot is hinging on that demo and review scores. Big streamers like Ludwig, Asmongold, Max, and Moist will apparently be playing the demo. So if it’s received we’ll, that’s drum up more interest.

 

[Madflavor]

In a digital world, why even pre-order? I have intent to buy and won't pre order. Means nothing unless you're measuring traditional retail.

This. People buy digital way more now than they did in 2016.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

no

The core fanbase wants turn-based potential new fans who may or may not exist want action based...

The lack of pre-orders is due to a lack of assurance for the core fanbase.

I haven't loved the gameplay of any final fantasy game since x, even 12 wasn't great in my book.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The core fanbase wants turn-based potential new fans who may or may not exist want action based...

the "core fanbase" bunch of old fucks living in nostalgia land

The lack of pre-orders is due to a lack of assurance for the core fanbase.

sure.

I haven't loved the gameplay of any final fantasy game since x, even 12 wasn't great in my book.

well there you go.

this Franchise is in desperate need of a revulsive. just like God of War got in 2018.
(I remember people crying over a no-jump button). and now, GoW is more successful than it ever was.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

well there you go.

this Franchise is in desperate need of a revulsive. just like God of War got in 2018.
(I remember people crying over a no-jump button). and now, GoW is more successful than it ever was.

I think that's a bad example.

God of War is still an action adventure game. It does have wildly different gameplay than the original trilogy, but that's what makes FF so different, each game had for the most part pretty wildly different gameplay, but remained in the genre.

I think the problems of FF12,13,15 are mostly tonal rather than gameplay and I think they're learning the wrong lessons.

Persona is growing in popularity and pokemon is as popular as ever. This idea that turn-based isn't popular or that it's just for an older generation doesn't make logical sense.

Why is Pokemon still selling well but Final Fantasy is seemingly struggling? I think the answer is pretty clear and has more to do with Tetsuya Nomura than anything else. We just haven't liked the plots and characters of FF games since FFX.

The reality is you can make engaging turn based gameplay, they've done it for decades and people still go back to play their old games for more than just nostalgia.

 

[LordBlodgett]

I'm not sure what they expected? A lot of people who pre-ordered FFXV felt burned, and now people are waiting for reviews before making a purchase. This should have been the expectation. If it's a return to form then I expect sales will end up great.

 

[Icymanipulator]

Ya I’m not sold yet, don’t like the action focus or the fact that there’s no party. We’ll see how the demo goes.

 

[Laieon]

I might play it someday because I'm slightly interested in it, but the only Final Fantasy game I've played that I've liked enough to finish is whatever one had Vaan (12?), so this is definitely far down the list of priorities for me.

 

[Lethal01]

Let us hopes this game dont bomba my friends

I hates this series but we must supports japanese developers

I hope this game bombs while FF7 Remake is a massive success.
It the Direction the series need in Gameplay, Character Design and Settings.

 

[Madflavor]

I hope this game bombs while FF7 Remake is a massive success.
It the Direction the series need in Gameplay, Character Design and Settings.

It hasn't been. They only sold 5 million in it's first 3 months, and we haven't gotten a word of sales figures since. It's been 3 years. That's incredibly telling.

If you love Final Fantasy it would be in your best interest to not want XVI to fail.

 

[feynoob]

What is going on here?

11 pages for something that hasnt happened yet?

 

[Madflavor]

What is going on here?

11 pages for something that hasnt happened yet?

Same thing happened on Era. It reached 35 pages before it got locked. Possible bad news for XVI basically emboldened a lot of people, including silent ones, to shit on the game. What else is new.

 

[Lethal01]

It hasn't been. They only sold 5 million in it's first 3 months, and we haven't gotten a word of sales figures since. It's been 3 years. That's incredibly telling.

If you love Final Fantasy it would be in your best interest to not want XVI to fail.

Then I want XVI to do worse and for the next installment to do better, If this is what Final Fantasy is from this point on then I don't care if it dies.

 

[Danjin44]

Then I want XVI to do worse and for the next installment to do better, If this is what Final Fantasy is from this point on then I don't care if it dies.

This is beyond fucked up.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

It hasn't been. They only sold 5 million in it's first 3 months, and we haven't gotten a word of sales figures since. It's been 3 years. That's incredibly telling.

If you love Final Fantasy it would be in your best interest to not want XVI to fail.

Probably at around 7-8mil sold I'd guess now with Intergrade and PC releases. Remember it was on PS+ a year after release, so that would have killed long-term sales, but increased the amount of people who played it quite significantly. I'd guess it was very profitable (high sale price, Sony money hats, Epic money hats...), but if it was at 10mil then they'd have announced it by now.

 

[Lethal01]

This is beyond fucked up.

I beyond don't care, I will never feel bad about wanting series to produce games I personally enjoy even at the cost of others not enjoying it.

 

[Nautilus]

Same thing happened on Era. It reached 35 pages before it got locked. Possible bad news for XVI basically emboldened a lot of people, including silent ones, to shit on the game. What else is new.

People are speaking their minds. This insatisfaction with the direction that Square is taking FF is nothing new, and has been pretty vocal even for XVI.

 

[feynoob]

Same thing happened on Era. It reached 35 pages before it got locked. Possible bad news for XVI basically emboldened a lot of people, including silent ones, to shit on the game. What else is new.

Guess people like bad news these days.
Any good news doesn't reach that much page.

 

[Madflavor]

Then I want XVI to do worse and for the next installment to do better, If this is what Final Fantasy is from this point on then I don't care if it dies.

FF is always shaking up the formula with it's gameplay.

X is one of the highest selling entries in the series. Did XII play like X?
XII sold pretty well. Did XIII play like XII?
XIII sold incredibly well. Did FFXV play like XIII?
XV sold incredibly well. Is FFXVI gonna play like XV?

You're a Final Fantasy fan right? Are you suddenly pretending to not know this shit to justify your hatred of a game you haven't played yet?

 

[Shh]

I dunno why they're panicking. I refuse to pre-order anything ever again because of shenanigans, but I'm definitely buying this. It's basically Devil May Cry with Final Fantasy flavor. I'm in.

 

[Lethal01]

XIII sold incredibly well. Did FFXV play like XIII?
XV sold incredibly well. Is FFXVI gonna play like XV?

13, 15 and 16 have indeed all been going more towards the "single controllable character with more action focused direction"

Square Enix does try to do things they think will be successful, Remake being far more successful than 16 would obviously inform their decisions on what comes next for the series. Sales and their perception of their audience has indeed always been a factor in what they do for Final fantasy.

But yeah I'm not saying that the games success would absolutely guarantee that this will be everything Final fantasy is from now on obviously, but I'd loved if it failed and made them hesitant to come close to repeating many elements seen here..

 

[Pantz]

Lack of kawaii female characters.

 

[feynoob]

Turn based combat is antiquated garbage.
It only existed because of hardware limitations at the time and in your imagination, you were fighting epic battles like in 16 as a kid.

Turn based is not garbage. People with little attention don't understand the beauty of turn based mechanics.

 

[Shh]

Turn based is not garbage. People with little attention don't understand the beauty of turn based mechanics.

I'll always enjoy turned-based mechanics, but I'm definitely eager to see how this new playstyle pans out.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I guess the final fantasy may cry

 

[rofif]

Turn based is not garbage. People with little attention don't understand the beauty of turn based mechanics.

If it's in the game, I will play it. I loved icewind dale 2 for example or fallout tactics... but real action is always better than this weird, theoretical action for me.
I bet you 1000% that if technology allowed better action 30 years ago, many of turn based games directors would do real action. Not imaginary action.
7 remake does it perfectly. You have real action and turn based if you need to.

 

[Raven117]

I mean… for me, this is the FF I’ve wanted since XII (or even before).

Ffxiv is the one I didn’t know I needed. But this…. This game is the one I want and smacks of old school FF. (Ie, before 10…. 10 to me took the series in a terrible direction that was made worse by ffxiii

 

[Shh]

I mean… for me, this is the FF I’ve wanted since XII (or even before).

Ffxiv is the one I didn’t know I needed. But this…. This game is the one I want and smacks of old school FF. (Ie, before 10…. 10 to me took the series in a terrible direction that was made worse by ffxiii

I'm the opposite. I really loved X.

 

[RoboFu]

Kaaaahhhhnnnn!!!

 

[Guilty_AI]

If it's in the game, I will play it. I loved icewind dale 2 for example or fallout tactics... but real action is always better than this weird, theoretical action for me.
I bet you 1000% that if technology allowed better action 30 years ago, many of turn based games directors would do real action. Not imaginary action.
7 remake does it perfectly. You have real action and turn based if you need to.

Turn based emulates board games, and its form heavily emphasizes battle of wits. Regardless of what you prefer, there are many areas where real time action cannot beat a turn based game.

 

[NewYork214]

My preorder is in. I can't wait for launch. So fucking excited

 

[Nubulax]

A problem with that is: what's a proper entry to a franchise that's happy to be doing different stuff? FF was never an MMO yet FFIV could be viewed as one of the best installments in the series. The games don't have to tank to start new things with the next game as they already do that. People not happy with this could very well enjoy what they do with XVII.

For ALL those people that are salty about the one character and not interested in the story and combat and such. FF14 is one of the best Final Fantasy games out there if you truly love the Final Fantasy franchise and it has a great cast of characters and great story so I would recomend checking that out if you arent getting FF16

 

[VectorVictor]

So SquEnix makes a game console exclusive and then wonders why the game is lagging in Pre-Order sales?

Seriously—who the holy f*** is SquEnix employing, because if this report is true, they have their head so far up their a** they taste denture crème.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

I'm starting to think my Deluxe Edition might not be so valuable if SE is going to over-print them.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

We used to get 3 unique single player turn based final fantasy games every generation from nes to ps1...

Then one of the main line FF games a generation became mmorpg... (many of us don't want to play MMORPG)

Then we started getting games with sequels... (If you didn't love the game, why would you play the sequels, also after saving the world in one story, you're going to get diminishing returns)

Then we started getting action games... (not why most of us got into FF)

The last generation we only got 1 offline FF game and it was really FF Versus 13...

They've allowed FF13 and FF15 to entirely define entire generations of Final Fantasy...

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I think that's a bad example.

God of War is still an action adventure game. It does have wildly different gameplay than the original trilogy, but that's what makes FF so different, each game had for the most part pretty wildly different gameplay,

. I am not that sure. all of them are basically "Menu Selection Games"

there are nuances here and there. sure.

but remained in the genre.

Genres are embracing and mixing all kinds of influences now·a·days.

I think the problems of FF12,13,15 are mostly tonal rather than gameplay and I think they're learning the wrong lessons.

all of them had severe development issues. and Square Enix is shit.

Persona is growing in popularity and pokemon is as popular as ever. This idea that turn-based isn't popular or that it's just for an older generation doesn't make logical sense.

Pokemon . i feel disgusted just thinking in that fucking lazy-ass, nostalgia driven, unambitious franchise where people buys the MVP and even buys broken ass games.

Persona, despite its growing popularity is still quite niche and i dont think it could be compared in term of budget to a main line Final Fantasy game

Why is Pokemon still selling well but Final Fantasy is seemingly struggling?

Pokemon is the call of duty of Nintnendo.

I think the answer is pretty clear and has more to do with Tetsuya Nomura than anything else. We just haven't liked the plots and characters of FF games since FFX.

now you are talking about another point... Story/charteres and related stuff. and yes!!! it has been shit/failing to reach its full potential since Square Soft became Square Enix.

The reality is you can make engaging turn-based gameplay, they've done it for decades and people still go back to play their old games for more than just nostalgia.

well...the reality of the situation is that since Square Enix; Final Fantasy has been loosing its prestige.

the old folks asking for Turn base gameplay can go and.....you know what is next.


the the things is......what is most important aspect in a FF game?

what is the thing that old fucks want from a FF game?

what is the essence, magic that makes a Final Fantasy game feel truly magical?

if we look at old entries (before voice acting)

We could argue that the music accounted for 50% of the experience (if not more). It was so important that each theme was a character of its own, creating the vibes and atmosphere of the places you were exploring.





what's Next? the FMVs they felt so fucking amazing to look at, always a treat.



you felt like "oh shit". the gravitas of the situation.

The turn-based gameplay felt just like a means to an end, which was to represent the actions of the characters in a flashy way. It was almost like a concession due to hardware limitations.



the vast majority of the time your were exploring and talking with NPCs. But some times you had moments like this:


bruh. these moments felt so fucking AAA/Blockbuster so "cinematic".

All of these aspects is the reason why Final Fantasy felt so ahead of its time and ambitious despite being constrained by the technology in which it was built.

 

[ProtoByte]

I like how everyone is bringing up exclusivity, FF15, FF's general history, turn-based combat, or any other random assortment of deductions, self evidently false or otherwise, instead of interrogating the contents of the game itself

My guess is that the game scores very highly and sells a handsome figure by the end of the first month. But its not very impressive graphically, the aesthetic isn't something that mainline FF has used since it went 3D, and the combat is selling itself solely on flashy combos. Maybe the answer is that it's not the type of game that hypes people up enough to rush to pre-order.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Their reward for being greedy

 

[KXVXII9X]

https://www.patreon.com/posts/everything-once-83982355

Too bad for them. Personally I am busy with Zelda TOTK and Street Fighter 6 in the coming weeks, and Steam sale end of this month + backlog. So I will be skipping this at launch

I don't know why big games all release near the same time. I don't think they have anything to worry about. It may not bring the same number of Preorders as 15, but I can already tell it will be a MUCH better product. The development seemed fast and smooth. The team has a much more focused approach to 16 opposed to 15 which consisted of the game, a movie, an anime series, and a mobile game.

 

[McCarth]

This is what happens when you release the worst AAA title in the last 15 years.

Still, I have faith XVI will turn the franchise around.

 

[VillageBC]

All I want from FF is to give me another game like VII, X or XII... And I'll stupidly buy this one on that hope even though the trend of XIII and XV tells me they are going in a direction that I'm no longer the target market.