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[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I mean, wasn't XV also just as hyped? Maybe even more? And look at where that got it.

At the end of the day, sales is what matters, for the company that owns the IP anyway. And we won't have to wait that long to see the results.

Everything they've shown of XVI so far shows me they've learned their lesson from XV. FWIW, XV was cobbled together in a way because it was always meant to be a part of XIII. XVI was developed as a standalone entry from the get-go.

Persona 5, Pokemon, Dragon Quest, Honkai Star Rail, Fire Emblem Three Houses, FF up until X, the list goes on.

The problem is not that its turn based, the problem is the game's quality being up to snuff. If the game is good, people will flock to it, be it turn based or action based.

Everyone that I've seen play the demo seems to love it, and these are actual, regular gamers. People who are fans of the IP, or haven't played a FF in a while. It'd seem to the people that matter, XVI's quality is very much up to snuff.

And FWIW none of the other games you listed have budgets nearly as big as XVI. We can pretend all we want but games at these production levels would be taking a massive risk sticking with turn-based combat. Whether that's right or wrong, it is what it is.

 

[Danjin44]

"I speak for the fanbase"
"Why do the threads have so many pages then?"

Spoiler

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I'm buying it and haven't pre odored.

 

[BaneIsPain]

Already pre order after excellent demo.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

Persona 5, Pokemon, Dragon Quest, Honkai Star Rail, Fire Emblem Three Houses, FF up until X, the list goes on.

The problem is not that its turn based, the problem is the game's quality being up to snuff. If the game is good, people will flock to it, be it turn based or action based.

Persona 5, one of the best turned based games of all time hasn't even sold 7.5 million globablly. Dragon Quest XI, also a great game, was reported at 6.5 million globally in 2021. Those sales numbers just won't cut it for massive AAA budget games. It sucks, but its just simple business. Even Final Fantasy 7 remake had mediocre sales. It reviewed well and was a hybrid of turn based and action combat and it still didn't sell well

Pokemon because it is Pokemon will sell like crazy, not matter what kind of game it is. The IP is just way too big to fail. So it is not fair to compare to any other turn base games

 

[Danjin44]

Nautilus

"lol emoji to all"

 

[Raven117]

I love how he keeps trying to speak for all fans, when numerous life long fans in this very thread, including me, disagree with him.

Also yes, FF has always been different. FF1 was D&D rules. FF2 completely changed it to leveling and growing based on the weapons/spells you used. FF3 allowed you to level like in FF1, but with numerous classes allowing for a more strucutured freedom than FF2. FF4 gave you a very specific party that had very specific jobs associated with them, offering new ways to fight given their unique abilities. FF5 mixed both FF3 and 4, with more strucutred characters and arcs, while maintaining the freedom of classes. I could keep going on, alongside how each game changed its battle systems from various ATB concepts to something new entirely.

Nautilus doesn't speak for any fan, He only speaks for himself. He was already ready to fight against this game the moment it was announced. He never gave it a chance.

im with you man. FF has always changed it up significantly between entries. With totally different vibes. I loved some and disliked others (I hate the direction 10 took that bled over into 13, but that’s cool…. Looks like we are now going in direction I want for 16!)

This bs yet again... FF always had an identity. The lore and presentation would changez but there always were a skeleton that was shared between entries. Square basically threw that away with XV to chase trens, even if FF was on the gutter ever since XII.(Though I like XII).

This is straight up…. No. You don’t speak for all fans. There are plenty of fans in here (and not) that are life long ff fans and are amped for this. Sorry it wasn’t the game you wanted, but YoshiP is squares more talented developer at this time, and I’m ready to see what he has done here.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Don’t think pre orders carry the same weight when most of the purchases are digital.

But to be honest after the last couple of games, Final Fantasy is no longer carrying the same weight. They need FFXVI to be a great game.

What seemingly nobody in the gaming industry seems to understand is that one game’s reputation is a major factor in the initial performance of a sequel. FF15 bombed, so no matter what 16’s reception will be muted sales wise unless it’s so good that it washes the bad taste from everyone’s mouth that was 15. This work similarly to how games undeserving of praise see success simply because a past game was revered (see: Pokemon).

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Also, SE must be hallucinating. They act like they’re top dog, but they have nowhere near the relevance they’ve had in the past. They consistently overestimate their own forecasts and it can only be explained by ego. They’re not the publishing force they once were in the 90s and early 2000s.

 

[Dr. Claus]

What seemingly nobody in the gaming industry seems to understand is that one game’s reputation is a major factor in the initial performance of a sequel. FF15 bombed, so no matter what 16’s reception will be muted sales wise unless it’s so good that it washes the bad taste from everyone’s mouth that was 15. This work similarly to how games undeserving of praise see success simply because a past game was revered (see: Pokemon).

Within the first twenty-four hours, Square Enix reported that Final Fantasy XV had shipped five million units worldwide in both physical shipments and digital sales—a figure which allowed the game to "break even" on development costs.[133] This gave Final Fantasy XV the biggest launch in the franchise to date, the most first day digital sales in Japan for a game up to that point, and set records for physical shipments and downloads in mainland Asia.[134] Commenting on the large numbers, Tabata revealed that the strong sales saved the Final Fantasy franchise as a whole, which had seen declining commercial success in recent years.[135] According to Square Enix, shipments had reached over six million worldwide by January 2017.[136] In May of the same year, the game and Rise of the Tomb Raider helped to increase sales and profits for the 2016-2017 fiscal year.[137] By May 2022, Final Fantasy XV had sold ten million units worldwide across all versions, making it one of the best-selling Final Fantasy games of all time.[138]

I get hating on FFXV is a cool thing to do these days, but at least get your facts straight. FFXV didn't bomb.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Within the first twenty-four hours, Square Enix reported that Final Fantasy XV had shipped five million units worldwide in both physical shipments and digital sales—a figure which allowed the game to "break even" on development costs.[133] This gave Final Fantasy XV the biggest launch in the franchise to date, the most first day digital sales in Japan for a game up to that point, and set records for physical shipments and downloads in mainland Asia.[134] Commenting on the large numbers, Tabata revealed that the strong sales saved the Final Fantasy franchise as a whole, which had seen declining commercial success in recent years.[135] According to Square Enix, shipments had reached over six million worldwide by January 2017.[136] In May of the same year, the game and Rise of the Tomb Raider helped to increase sales and profits for the 2016-2017 fiscal year.[137] By May 2022, Final Fantasy XV had sold ten million units worldwide across all versions, making it one of the best-selling Final Fantasy games of all time.[138]

I get hating on FFXV is a cool thing to do these days, but at least get your facts straight. FFXV didn't bomb.

Review wise it certainly did, it’s widely regarded as one of the worst FF games to date. SE lost a lot of trust and gamers’ goodwill and that will drive underperformance compared to the juggernaut 16 could be. Even if it turns out to be a huge success, it would be a bigger hit if 15 didn’t hurt SE’s reputation.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Well it might do better now due to the positive reception of the demo. But we have to wait and see how big of an impact it has. Also really positive critical reception should help push copies even more.

 

[MagiusNecros]

You do not speak for the FF Fanbase.

Neither does the vocal minority and boy are they vocal. The Final Fantasy Fanbase is a very divisive creature. You got the OG's since FF1, you got the new age hipsters who don't even know the concept of turn based or ATB combat systems, you got the people that were introduced at either SNES, FF7-10 era, FFXI, FF13 and the FNC, FF14 which brings us to now with FF7-2(Remake, Rebirth, Re????) and FFXVI.

I agree with Nautilus to a degree but only to the degree that Final Fantasy does not know what it wants to be and reinvents the wheel with each mainline installment since FFX.

A topic about Preorders really shouldn't have 17 pages but it's probably the discussions that are making it that long.

FFXVI is tailored to be a story driven DMC/Bayo/GoW 50 hour long Game of Thrones Revenge Story focusing on just one character with what I assume to be very little if any party management.

The concerns about Preorders might be valid if the brand is as diluted as it is. With how great FF15(not at all) turned out to be it's rather fair to be concerned especially is a section of the fanbase only is interested in playing Mainline titles.

You will find that in contrast to the FF fanbase the Dragon Quest fanbase is not as divisive. Most Dragon Quest games are fantastic and people have no problems with them. And with each new DQ game you KNOW exactly what you are getting. With Final Fantasy you have no idea.

 

[Ronin_7]

No, the fans don't.Despite what a minority here says.

XVI should have been a new IP, given it has all the great makings of one. But its not the FF game people want, and you can clearly see that by how much more enthusiastic the fanbase is with Rebirth.

People are more enthusiastic with Rebirth because it carries the FF7 name attached, not because it's a better game, because as it stands the FF XVI demo is better than the whole Remake alone

 

[GenericUser]

People are more enthusiastic with Rebirth because it carries the FF7 name attached, not because it's a better game, because as it stands the FF XVI demo is better than the whole Remake alone

100% agree. In one year from now on, I'm sure people will praise FF16 and consider it to be better then Rebirth. It's a fresh new game, with a clear vision in mind and professionally developed and delivered. It really could be a return to form for the franchise, I hope so. The name and the heritage that is associated with the name Final Fantasy deserves nothing less.

 

[Brock2621]

I’m super stoked for both Rebirth and XVI. Right now, FF7 Remake has the most enjoyable combat for me. I’ve played the demo and like the XVI combat as well, but i think REBIRTH edges out for me for most anticipated.

 

[Bernardougf]

After the absolute shitfest that was XV ill not be buying this one until I can see what they have delivered ....seeing to many conflict things about the demo and some things about the gameplay that where already on FFxv that I despise

And of course, with time the game can only get better with the optimizations that will be done especially on the performance mode

So no problem in waiting for the better experience in the future (and probably cheaper)

 

[L*][*N*K]

After the absolute shitfest that was XV ill not be buying this one until I can see what they have delivered

XV and XVI have nothing in common, the development team, the creative vision is all different. I think the game that you need to skip is Forspoken not XVI

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Final Fantasy didn't make it to 16 main entries by being the same forever. It has always reinvented itself, over and over.

 

[Bernardougf]

XV and XVI have nothing in common, the development team, the creative vision is all different. I think the game that you need to skip is Forspoken not XVI

Everyone should skip forspoken

 

[Ozriel]

I'm buying it and haven't pre odored.

Same here

 

[AJUMP23]

Isn't Square the group with unreasonable sales expectations all the time.

 

[RAIDEN1]

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought surely it can't be this guy? ....

 

[L*][*N*K]

Everyone should skip forspoken

I think everyone did.

 

[The artful mincer]

You're half right. Rebirth does have that advantage. But I also feel that people are excited about Rebirth because of all the new excited things that Remake did(The presentation, the combat, etc).

New and exciting. If only there was a franchise that was know for trying to do these things with each knew entry... wait a minute!?

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Persona 5, one of the best turned based games of all time hasn't even sold 7.5 million globablly. Dragon Quest XI, also a great game, was reported at 6.5 million globally in 2021.

This game should sell similar numbers.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Dont worry Square enix... Im gonna save you with my pre-order .



When will release the game?

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Combat is the last thing I care about in a JRPG. What made FF15 shit was it's story and bland poorly designed open world that made absolutely no sense.

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

Have the pre-orders picked up since the demo release? Are they still panicking?

 

[Damien Crowley]

Fuck Squenix right in the pre-order expectations!

Mfuckers right out cunted their way up to be as shitty and corpo-evil as the big vowels A, E & U

 

[saintjules]

I'd like to see stats on how many pre-orders were placed after the demo launched.

 

[Toots]

Imran Khan is as full of shit as his pakistanese namesake...

 

[rhodesianshepard]

This game should sell similar numbers.

It will be considered a failure if it does. Pretty much all big budget Sony exclusive titles sell 10million plus. Its still early in the PS5 lifespan compared to when Persona 5 was released on PS4(more PS4's than PS5's available on release). But if FF16 gets a 90+ metacritic, I would be shocked if it didn't easily cross 10 million within 4-5 years of release.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

It will be considered a failure if it does. Pretty much all big budget Sony exclusive titles sell 10million plus. Its still early in the PS5 lifespan compared to when Persona 5 was released on PS4(more PS4's than PS5's available on release). But if FF16 gets a 90+ metacritic, I would be shocked if it didn't easily cross 10 million within 4-5 years of release.

You should check how much previous Final Fantasy titles sold.

Unless they break new ground or find new customer base, it's not exceeding 10 million. That what FF15 sold on 3 platforms. Expect this to be lower.

They are using same marketing tactics as forever. Little chance of increasing player base.

 

[skit_data]

I think it was a very wise decision to release the demo. Sure, it may not be what some people expected from a FF game and it has some performance issues (hopefully they'll be ironed out in the release version) but to me and many others it made the game go from somewhat interesting to a potential GOTY contender (not expecting it will win at TGA, but it'll be in the talks).

Hard to tell wether it will stay as strong throughout the whole game but the intro alone stands tall over many, many games in terms of story and the combat feels way better than I anticipated. It definitely deserves hype in broader circles than just FF fans.

 

[phant0m]

was entirely meh on the series after XV and didn't really pay any attention to XVI. played 30 minutes of the demo and preordered. it's got some solid GoT vibes and maturity in it's theme that i think was sorely lacking. fun combat too.

 

[Neilg]

im with you man. FF has always changed it up significantly between entries. With totally different vibes. I loved some and disliked others (I hate the direction 10 took that bled over into 13, but that’s cool…. Looks like we are now going in direction I want for 16!)

This might just be your phrasing, but I hope this doesn't mean you skipped FF12.... 16 is going back to the tone/direction that started with 12. it's the best one next to 7 imo!

Unless they break new ground or find new customer base, it's not exceeding 10 million. That what FF15 sold on 3 platforms. Expect this to be lower.

If this sweeps 9.5's and 10's, I could see it outselling FF15 across lifetime sales. FF15 sold 5 million on day 1, that would be a 25% attach rate for FF16 to do those numbers - that's pretty fucking high, but hype seems high and reviews will determine. I think it could hit close to 20%.

Take 2 in meetings with shareholders are saying that 20% is a fair estimate for GTA6 when it comes out. over 20% is really, really fucking high.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

You should check how much previous Final Fantasy titles sold.

Unless they break new ground or find new customer base, it's not exceeding 10 million. That what FF15 sold on 3 platforms. Expect this to be lower.

They are using same marketing tactics as forever. Little chance of increasing player base.

Players and critics were all very mixed on FF15. FF16 will seemingly get very good reviews in contrast. Also, this game will do much better in the "Western" markets. Its not attempting to be a "teen anime" game that most other FF's attempt to capture.
It is much closer to Game of Thrones. Also, it will come to PC in the next year to 18 months most likely

 

[vaibhavpisal]

This might just be your phrasing, but I hope this doesn't mean you skipped FF12.... 16 is going back to the tone/direction that started with 12. it's the best one next to 7 imo!



If this sweeps 9.5's and 10's, I could see it outselling FF15 across lifetime sales. FF15 sold 5 million on day 1, that would be a 25% attach rate for FF16 to do those numbers - that's pretty fucking high, but hype seems high and reviews will determine. I think it could hit close to 20%.

Take 2 in meetings with shareholders are saying that 20% is a fair estimate for GTA6 when it comes out. over 20% is really, really fucking high.

Players and critics were all very mixed on FF15. FF16 will seemingly get very good reviews in contrast. Also, this game will do much better in the "Western" markets. Its not attempting to be a "teen anime" game that most other FF's attempt to capture.
It is much closer to Game of Thrones. Also, it will come to PC in the next year to 18 months most likely

Final Fantasy 7 Remake had reviews on its side. It even managed a few 10s from big outlets.

Yet ended up selling less than FF15.

Which is fine cause they are mostly satisfied with appealing to their core fanbase.

 

[Raven117]

This might just be your phrasing, but I hope this doesn't mean you skipped FF12.... 16 is going back to the tone/direction that started with 12. it's the best one next to 7 imo!



If this sweeps 9.5's and 10's, I could see it outselling FF15 across lifetime sales. FF15 sold 5 million on day 1, that would be a 25% attach rate for FF16 to do those numbers - that's pretty fucking high, but hype seems high and reviews will determine. I think it could hit close to 20%.

Take 2 in meetings with shareholders are saying that 20% is a fair estimate for GTA6 when it comes out. over 20% is really, really fucking high.

It was phrasing. I loved FFXII! When I saw that some people didn't like it (because they had in their head that FFX was the definitive FF, I just didnt' get it...) In my mind, FF was always more gritty in nature (but that's just me. I don't speak for all fans).

Honestly, this game looks like the FF I always thought I was playing (back in the 16-bit games...I imagined it all in a grimdark kinda vibe...turns out...many folks thought it was more anime in nature...but...I don't know...just saying this one looks right up my alley.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Bro, this thread is laughable after the demo release. This game has classic written all over it.

 

[Neilg]

Final Fantasy 7 Remake had reviews on its side. It even managed a few 10s from big outlets.

I loved it, but the idea of it being a part 1 remake of a game many of the younger generation haven't played or cared about definitely hurt sales. It's pretty anime in vibe. Then there are people who did play the original but refused to pick it up because it's an 'unfinished remake'. the messaging for it was a mess and you still see people on this forum saying they loved the original but they're waiting until the remake is 'done'

I think FF16 has a much wider appeal in it's tone, the general public hype is much higher. I believe FF16 will effortlessly outsell 7R over lifetime sales.

7 remake is 3.5 million in it's first 3 days. To do that, FF16 would need a 17.5% attach rate... I reckon it'll match it, but then have a much longer tail for sales and do higher numbers overall.

 

[mckmas8808]

It will be considered a failure if it does. Pretty much all big budget Sony exclusive titles sell 10million plus. Its still early in the PS5 lifespan compared to when Persona 5 was released on PS4(more PS4's than PS5's available on release). But if FF16 gets a 90+ metacritic, I would be shocked if it didn't easily cross 10 million within 4-5 years of release.

5 years? More like 2-3.

 

[wvnative]

Review wise it certainly did, it’s widely regarded as one of the worst FF games to date. SE lost a lot of trust and gamers’ goodwill and that will drive underperformance compared to the juggernaut 16 could be. Even if it turns out to be a huge success, it would be a bigger hit if 15 didn’t hurt SE’s reputation.

While not excellent, an 81 on meta is still in the green. hardly bombed.

 

[Damien Crowley]

While not excellent, an 81 on meta is still in the green. hardly bombed.

Square Enix Disappointed by Sales Of Tomb Raider, Wants To Maximise Profits During Development

When Square Enix declared that the critically acclaimed Tomb Raider did not reach sales expectations, many were confused. The game sold 3.4 million in its first month. Those were incredible numbers, but Square Enix was expecting six million. Now there is a growing realisation within the company...

www.kotaku.com.au

Square Enix vs. its greatest enemy:

 

[ProtoByte]

We’ll after playing the demo to completion, I feel the same as I did before, this game is trying wayyy to hard to be game of thrones, adult/mature/dramatic and it just comes off as cringe and humorless. Its productions values are spectacular, but this does not feel like FF. More like FF tactics in terms of tone. I’ll buy it and play it, but it’s not off to good start.

As much I think Game of Thrones is overrated contrarian crap, I do think that having a M-rated FF game that completely shrugs off animu or general JRPG weirdness is a positive thing. If Nomura had been able and allowed to carry that out with Versus XIII, there would've been a completely different context around Square Enix right now.

 

[Calverz]

Look at recent square enix games, forspoken, chaos whatever it’s called. Ff15 and ff7 remake in terms of brand. The whole Web 3.0 crap. That’s the reasons why pre orders are less than expected. I still think it will sell well as it’s a ps5 exclusive and will be hyped/marketed into oblivion.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Still haven't pre-ordered it though. Will buy and and play it on day one, however. 100%.

I was already sold on it and gonna buy it. The demo just made it one of the easiest purchase decisions. 10/10

 

[Nankatsu]

Well SE all I can say is...

Pre-order it months ago, and after playing the demo I don't regret it one bit.

This game is gonna be awesome to play.

 

[Palabragrís]

Well SE all I can say is...

Pre-order it months ago, and after playing the demo I don't regret it one bit.

This game is gonna be awesome to play.

I'm as old-fashioned as you can get, so I'll wait for the physical edition. No pre-orders for me.

...now, my wife is gonna hate me when I come home with the collector's edition, but what can an FF fan do about it?

Así es la vida.