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[borghe]

I guess that's out the window with the past week's sales.

for a hype-creating-shortage to work, you have to end it at some point. dur.

the week before xmas sales is only slightly less obvious than the week OF christmas sales.

but really at this point, nothing I could say short of producing the smoking gun will convince you, and personally I am not making it my mission to do so.. just poining out the plainly obvious facts that the naive choose to dismiss as coincidence.. all 134 of those facts or so it seems. choose to ignore tham. really to me at the press of submit none of it makes a difference either way.

 

[DarienA]

for a hype-creating-shortage to work, you have to end it at some point. dur.

the week before xmas sales is only slightly less obvious than the week OF christmas sales.

but really at this point, nothing I could say short of producing the smoking gun will convince you, and personally I am not making it my mission to do so.. just poining out the plainly obvious facts that the naive choose to dismiss as coincidence.. all 134 of those facts or so it seems. choose to ignore tham. really to me at the press of submit none of it makes a difference either way.

Borghe knowing that I know that some company's have in the past feigned shortages, to increase sales, I'm curious to know why you feel the need to down everyone who doesn't agree with your line of thinking this time around? Just because I don't agree with you this time doesn't make me naive or anyone else. In this case various folks over threads have posted valid reasons for not thinking this was a faked shortage. Can't it simply be that folks are interpreting the limited data we have differently and leave it at that?

 

[borghe]

I am not calling anyone who doesn't agree with me naive (and I urge you to show me where I have). I am calling those who are crying fowl and virtually calling it inconceivable naive. everyone has an opinion, and in light of all the suspicious facts if you still believe that the sahortage is/was real, more power to you. but some are straight out discounting or trying to disprove the facts, which is fine but the facts are still there.

the shortage only existed in one territory, despite the hardware ebing identical except for UMD lockout in all territories.

in other territories sony had no problem manufacturing or distributing units.

despite their shortages, sony still fluctuated shipments, providing more units on weeks with game releases, and fewer units on weeks without releases.

this shortage happened shortly after launch and was fixed the week before the biggest week of the shopping season.

trends in markets without shortages showed PSP sales taking a smaller market share month after month. PSP in europe as of this week is bucking that trend, no doubt in part thanks to hype created by the shortage.

are all fo these coincidence? maybe. but an awful lot of coincidences if you ask me.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I simply don't agree with the assumptions you make, and find them far from obvious. In particular, the shortage the week of GTA's release, which woudl be prime time to end a shortage, given the popularity of the series in the UK.

In tandem with that, Sony certainly has shown the ability to botch shipments and create shortages by mistake, which they've done a couple of times during the life of the PS2-- not just at launches or holidays-- the most recent being a year and a hald ago when PS2s were nowhere to be found in NA during the Spring.

I also find it unlikely that shortages could create a 4x demand for product.

I've never been a believer in the "intentional shortage" ploy and even less so when put forth by advocates of a competing system. It's like the Walscuse, or Easter-- a flimsy theory used to explain some discrepency in sales from what the fanboys want.

PSP is hot in the UK. Period. Sorry.

 

[DarienA]

I am not calling anyone who doesn't agree with me naive (and I urge you to show me where I have).

just poining out the plainly obvious facts that the naive choose to dismiss as coincidence.

Hello McFly? That sure looks like you're saying that anyone who dismisses "your view" of the available data is "naive"

Your side nor the other side has the complete story of what is going on to be able to say with 100% certainty that "they" are right.

When they do, then we'll have something that isn't more than just educated guessing and conjecture.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

What suspicious facts?

 

[borghe]

I've never been a believer in the "intentional shortage" ploy

So MS was only able to really get 48 X360's to stores which previously got launch allocations of 100-150 each of XBox, GCNs, and PS2s?

 

[marc^o^]

PSP is hot in the UK. Period. Sorry.

This does not contradict what he said.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Again, Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is the most likely true.


1) PSP is popular, and sold out. Sony gets mroe to stores and sales soar.

2) PSP is marginally popular, and Sony has deliberately shorted shipments so that the system is hard to find, even though it would cut into part of their sales during the build up ot the holidays, and during the week of the release of the most-popular title for the system. Then, they increase shipments so that pent-up demand plus those buying the hype will buy *more* than they would have before.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

So MS was only able to really get 48 X360's to stores which previously got launch allocations of 100-150 each of XBox, GCNs, and PS2s?

I have not been following Xbox 360 launch deatils whatsoever. Being that this is the first day, it may well be an anomaly. Given that this is the first region getting X360s, perhaps production hasn't ramped up as much at it has in the past. I have no idea. Are you saying that MS is sitting on warehouses of X360s, holding them back right now? I think more likely they didn't ramp up as much production because they would rather have a guaranteed sell-out than sit on expensive stock.

 

[Juice]

PSP is going to clean house this Christmas just fine.

Fuck, I'm in Japan, and I've seen several people playing GTA:LCS on the train.

Because they IMPORTED it. (Like me)

 

[borghe]

Again, Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is the most likely true.


1) PSP is popular, and sold out. Sony gets mroe to stores and sales soar.

2) PSP is marginally popular, and Sony has deliberately shorted shipments so that the system is hard to find, even though it would cut into part of their sales during the build up ot the holidays, and during the week of the release of the most-popular title for the system. Then, they increase shipments so that pent-up demand plus those buying the hype will buy *more* than they would have before.

when taking into account corporate politics and marketing, I would not necessarily at all say the simplest explanation is the truth.

I have not been following Xbox 360 launch deatils whatsoever. Being that this is the first day, it may well be an anomaly. Given that this is the first region getting X360s, perhaps production hasn't ramped up as much at it has in the past. I have no idea. Are you saying that MS is sitting on warehouses of X360s, holding them back right now? I think more likely they didn't ramp up as much production because they would rather have a guaranteed sell-out than sit on expensive stock.

microsoft launched first in america before. at minimum they should have expected a larger turn out for 360 than the original xbox, yet in most stores MS has provided less than half the number of 360s as they did xbox 1s. so ms just didn't think as many 360s would sell as original xboxes?

and I get that ms != sony.. just saying that creating hype for a product during a slow time is worth the losses in revenue when it raises revenue during the busy time. MS is MOST DEINFITELY doing it.. hard to argue otherwise given the similarities of the two launches.. just saying I don't get who it is so hard to believe that sony is doing the EXACT SAME THING in another country on another system.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

This does not contradict what he said.

In this thread. He has suggested that the 12,000/week numbers would be about the same even if there was no shortage in other threads.

 

[marc^o^]

Okay, so Sony shipped its millions units to all european countries, but UK. That's a simple explanation, right. But then my next question is: why did they do that?

 

[M3wThr33]

I have not been following Xbox 360 launch deatils whatsoever. Being that this is the first day, it may well be an anomaly. Given that this is the first region getting X360s, perhaps production hasn't ramped up as much at it has in the past. I have no idea. Are you saying that MS is sitting on warehouses of X360s, holding them back right now? I think more likely they didn't ramp up as much production because they would rather have a guaranteed sell-out than sit on expensive stock.

That my friend is creating an artificial shortage. They have complete control over how many were made and would prefer to have them sell out than satisfy the masses. They SEVERELY undercut how money they could have got.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

when taking into account corporate politics and marketing, I would not necessarily at all say the simplest explanation is the truth.

Keep clinging to that notion that the PSP is somehow less popular than it is, even if it involves convoluted logic.

I'm not part of the "PSP will bury DS" corwd nor have I ever been, but I do not for the life of me understand DS fans who have to take the PSP down a notch even when the DS is outselling it worldwide. You've been very consistent that way, Borghe. It's like a mission of yours or something. Where PSP sales data is to be had, you're right there spinning it.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

That my friend is creating an artificial shortage. They have complete control over how many were made and would prefer to have them sell out than satisfy the masses. They SEVERELY undercut how money they could have got.

So they should have made 10 million of them? They have to pick a number. If they pick a conservative number, that whortage is artifical? And let's not forget the other side of this theory-- that the artificial shortage is for the purposes of createing hype. MS wants to limit their userbase so they can be "cool"?

 

[borghe]

Keep clinging to that notion that the PSP is somehow less popular than it is, even if it involves convoluted logic.

I'm not part of the "PSP will bury DS" corwd nor have I ever been, but I do not for the life of me understand DS fans who have to take the PSP down a notch even when the DS is outselling it worldwide. You've been very consistent that way, Borghe. It's like a mission of yours or something. Where PSP sales data is to be had, you're right there spinning it.

how does my stance towards the PSP change anything that I have presented it. the only thing it changes is apparently makes the facts less crdible when they come from me. fine then, look them up for yourself. nothing I have presented other than the final conclusion has been fabricated.

 

[AniHawk]

I TOLD YOU.

YOU ALL DOUBTED ME, BUT I TOLD YOU ALL.

NOW WHO'S THE CRAZY ONE?

 

[borghe]

MS wants to limit their userbase so they can be "cool"?

no, they want to limit it so that they can come closer to that 3M number than the 2.5M number. boxes not on shelves sell faster than boxes on shelves. this is marketing 101.

and if you really want to debate .5 million units, look at the revenue from each unit. say sony is only looking to sell .4M as a result of the generated hype. That is a $100M revenue difference. In MS's case .5M units is a $200M revenue difference. Pretty huge numbers for investors.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Okay, so Sony shipped its millions units to all european countries, but UK. That's a simple explanation, right. But then my next question is: why did they do that?

Sales figures for Europe, please? And the the packages for the UK the same as for the other EU countries? becuase if not, there's the matter of putting them in the right boxes.


Borghe: The analogy falls apart at the point where you suggest that there are unsold units being held back from retail. If MS simply made less Xboxen, then that's not the same as Sony holding them back from the UK in particular in order to create a shortage.

I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm saying that I find it unlikely that Sony is sitting on stock rather than selling it when it's sold out of retail. In the case of the Xbox, I can certainly see them limiting production of an expesive unit, sold at a loss, so as to ensure a sellout and not end up with expensive stock. And maybe even limit it a little more than that. But I cannot see them sitting on onsold stock, holding it back, as you suggest.

In which case, if you define artificial shortage as including limited production, OK, I believe that exists, and is playing out with X360, and the same thing happened with the PS2 launch. I don't buy the hoarding-of-stock theory at all, though, which is what it would be for the UK.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Borghe, your "facts" include the notion that the market for PSPs will be parents buying for kids, that everybody wants a PSP has one, and that the PSP in the UK sold just under what it would have if there had been no shortages, and that the big boost when stock came in was only *because* of the shortage-driven hype.

Yeah, I find those all a bit specious.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I think I'm done.

This thread has followed the same pattern of other threads with any positive take on PSP. And bunch of very-pro-Nintendo folks downplaying the desirablility of the system. If it's games, then they suck, if it's sales, then it's due to marketing, not "real" demand.

Good night, ladies.

 

[123rl]

I bet both DS and PSP could be three times that amount if there weren't such bad shortages!

 

[Gaybrush Threepio]

To be fair we're still beating PSP on installed base in the UK with just DS, and if you add GBA in we still own the handheld market. The fact is that DS Nintendogs bundles are almost out of stock now, and PSP is in free supply - we could have sold 80,000 DS units this week if consumer demand was able to be fulfilled. Next week Mario Kart DS is coming in with the hardware bundle, and we should have SOME replenishment of Nintendogs bundles.......so should be an interesting week!!

 

[AniHawk]

I think I'm done.

This thread has followed the same pattern of other threads with any positive take on PSP. And bunch of very-pro-Nintendo folks downplaying the desirablility of the system. If it's games, then they suck, if it's sales, then it's due to marketing, not "real" demand.

Good night, ladies.

Well at least you have the sense to sit this one out, but really it's like this with all fans from everything video-game related anywhere.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Well at least you have the sense to sit this one out, but really it's like this with all fans from everything video-game related anywhere.

This forum has had its ups and downs, but it was better than this once.

 

[borghe]

I think I'm done.

This thread has followed the same pattern of other threads with any positive take on PSP. And bunch of very-pro-Nintendo folks downplaying the desirablility of the system. If it's games, then they suck, if it's sales, then it's due to marketing, not "real" demand.

Good night, ladies.

in my defense I didn't post anything in this thread until called out, and was just going to originally post to it that it was obvious that the PSP shortages were real (which I never said they weren't).

my original "I wonder if sony is creating this shortage" was just a curious aside that somehow got blown up into the debate that it now is. do I really feel that Sony created the shortage? Absolutely. Do I feel that the PSP would have sold like shit without it? No. Do I feel there is no demand there for PSP? No. The same way MS is only sending 48 X360's to stores that received over 100 original xboxes, I believe sony is/was keeping supply tight so that momentum would build before the holidays. was it because moomentum was dying? who knows, we will never have accurate numbers. but one thing is for certain. the first week after the shortage ended and the PSP has posted its highest non-launch windows numbers ever in the region, in a week where no significant titles were released. The hype obviously created huge demand (which I already said). That is undeniable. Whether you choose to believe sony did this intentionally or it just happened from poor planning, whatever.

Well at least you have the sense to sit this one out, but really it's like this with all fans from everything video-game related anywhere.

to this I ask, what is better, constant ranting or constant unabashed love. both are equally annoying. for every fanboy who is annoying about ranting over another system constantly (which if you check my posts, I hardly spend the majority of my time talking about PSP), there is another fanboy who talks constantly about how great a system is despite what most meutral-to-against consider obvious flaws.

both are just as annoying.

 

[AniHawk]

This forum has had its ups and downs, but it was better than this once.

I agree. Too bad, really.

 

[clearacell]

To be fair we're still beating PSP on installed base in the UK with just DS, and if you add GBA in we still own the handheld market. The fact is that DS Nintendogs bundles are almost out of stock now, and PSP is in free supply - we could have sold 80,000 DS units this week if consumer demand was able to be fulfilled. Next week Mario Kart DS is coming in with the hardware bundle, and we should have SOME replenishment of Nintendogs bundles.......so should be an interesting week!!

...so the DS is having an actual shortage? With all the rampant consiracy stories and such floating around here, I'm not sure what to think anymore :lol .

I can't wait to see the "Nintendogs + Mario Kart bundle vs. PSP Gigapack" in a couple of weeks. We will finally get a definative answer.

Actually, seeing how this place works, we'll never get a definative answer.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

62,000 of the giga pack sold in a week? Very nice.

 

[elostyle]

To be fair we're still beating PSP on installed base in the UK with just DS, and if you add GBA in we still own the handheld market. The fact is that DS Nintendogs bundles are almost out of stock now, and PSP is in free supply - we could have sold 80,000 DS units this week if consumer demand was able to be fulfilled. Next week Mario Kart DS is coming in with the hardware bundle, and we should have SOME replenishment of Nintendogs bundles.......so should be an interesting week!!

Man, here in some german stores I see barely any Nintendogs packs anymore but plenty of pink/blue DSes and plenty copies of Nintendogs.

I must say that is a pretty good tactic... bait the consumers with the bundles and then sell the same stuff for regular price

 

[marc^o^]

This forum has had its ups and downs, but it was better than this once.

C'mon, this is videogame board. We have theories, opinions, and we don't always agree. No big deal. We also discuss marketing strategies. And borghe may have raised a good point. He could be wrong, but his argumentation makes sense. Sony just got caught by a journalist using a borderline marketing cheat (use babelfish to translate this article). It's part of the fun to understand tricks used by big corporations. It's our way to stay out of the matrix.

 

[borghe]

This forum has had its ups and downs, but it was better than this once.

and the final thing I will post on this topic.... what exactly am I biased against? certainly not sony. As a matter of fact the two games I am playing right now are on PS2, and one of them is by SCEA (SotC). And unlike X360, I plan on getting a PS3 at launch unless there REALLY isn't a single piece of launch software that appeals to me for it.

Certainly not handhelds.. I have been proudly handheld gaming since 1998.

Hell, certainly not even PSP. I bought one on fucking launch day for crying out loud, without a game no less (no games I was interested in at the store I picked it up at). and, one of the two games I picked up for it turned out to be one of my most favorite puzzle games of all time.. so it's not like I have some grudge to grind with the system. not like I hate sony or have it out for the PSP. I have posted in numberous threads (including today) aboutgames I plan on buying for it.

this was a flippant comment about wondering if sony manufactured the shortage, the same comment I have made for x360. but because I made the comment and because I am generally dissatisfied with the PSP now we get "this forum has gone down hill with all the fanboys". rly, get over yourselves.

btw, who was the first person to mention my "shortage conspiracy" in this thread? not I IIRC.....

 

[elostyle]

I think I'm done.

This thread has followed the same pattern of other threads with any positive take on PSP. And bunch of very-pro-Nintendo folks downplaying the desirablility of the system. If it's games, then they suck, if it's sales, then it's due to marketing, not "real" demand.

Good night, ladies.

I think you take this kind of thread a bit too seriously. I'm down with the idea that they are like discussions about politics or even sports with some dude at a bar at 3 am after plenty of beer.

Opinions get a bit extreme then but everyone is still friends.

EDIT: Oh and borghe is the guy that doesn't drink in that scenario. Sometimes his avatar fits perfectly :lol

 

[DarienA]

btw, who was the first person to mention my "shortage conspiracy" in this thread? not I IIRC.....

Twas I, I do believe... and I did it because I was curious for you to comment on the new sales... unfortunately along with your commenting(which was appreciated) we also got in to anyone else who can't see what I obviously can see is naive(Which wasn't appreciated) and doesn't help the discussion at all.

 

[borghe]

Twas I, I do believe... and I did it because I was curious for you to comment on the new sales... unfortunately along with your commenting(which was appreciated) we also got in to anyone else who can't see what I obviously can see is naive(Which wasn't appreciated) and doesn't help the discussion at all.

I get passionate when I debate. I think there are only three insults I've ever made on these boards that I genuinely meant. two were at board members and one was at michael moore.

I DO think that to just outright discount EVERYTHING I have said is being a bit naive, but I don't feel that disagreeing with me makes you so.... to clear that up.

 

[Kangu]

To be fair we're still beating PSP on installed base in the UK with just DS, and if you add GBA in we still own the handheld market. The fact is that DS Nintendogs bundles are almost out of stock now, and PSP is in free supply - we could have sold 80,000 DS units this week if consumer demand was able to be fulfilled. Next week Mario Kart DS is coming in with the hardware bundle, and we should have SOME replenishment of Nintendogs bundles.......so should be an interesting week!!

:lol :lol :lol

Nintendo fans are one of a kind.

Spoiler

unless you work for Nintendo

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Spoiler

unless you work for Nintendo

Spoiler

you got it genius

 

[AniHawk]

Spoiler

unless you work for Nintendo

:lol

 

[Gaybrush Threepio]

 

[marc^o^]

Not his fault, but THAT was funny :lol

 

[borghe]

Spoiler

unless you work for Nintendo

really, nintendowned has never been more appropriate of a term.

 

[Kangu]

Spoiler

you got it genius

:lol Well I honestly had no way of knowing. Though I wouldn't put it past Nintendofans to refer to Nintendo as 'we' given how emotionaly involved some of them seem to be with the weekly sales charts.

 

[Chibbi Brady]

Great sales all round. I'm thinking handhelds could be the big winner this year, between PE5 and Mario Kart both the PSP and DS will have a fantastic Christmas.

Just imagine being a kid again and coming downstairs to unwrap a shiny new PSP or DS, you'd be in heaven. The only cponsole I've gotten like that was the NES and it was far and away my best Christmas ever.

 

[marc^o^]

What a beautiful happy end for this thread!

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

There's no ending until we have EVERY HW number. Yup, PS2, XBX and GC wanted.

 

[elostyle]

You need a distinct avatar threepio so that people won't forget all the time :lol

 

[ghostlyjoe]

:lol Well I honestly had no way of knowing. Though I wouldn't put it past Nintendofans to refer to Nintendo as 'we' given how emotionaly involved some of them seem to be with the weekly sales charts.

You don't have to read many PSP vs. DS threads to know that there's too much emotional involvement on all sides. But, you have to admit, it's entertaining. It's like the ultimate hair-pulling, high-pitched-shrieking, glasses-smashing sissy fight!

 

[radioheadrule83]

GAME and Gamestation in liverpool are showing PSP and DS as out of stock. Definately the Nintendogs bundles anyway. The online shop.game.net/update makes it seem as though its not gonna be a local thing either... so it was odd seeing such high sales all round.

It looks like GAME and Gamestation are planning to gouge shoppers with Giga Pack and use bundles. A shitty thing to do, and I think it'll prove a shitty idea.