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[sp3000]

TVs have always been far behind computers in resolution. My CRT from 2005 used to do 2560x1600 at 85hz. Show me one modern LCD TV that can do that. Technology has regressed in some ways since then.

 

[Corky]

TVs have always been far behind computers in resolution. My CRT from 2005 used to do 2560x1600 at 85hz. Show me one modern LCD TV that can do that. Technology has regressed in some ways since then.

dear lord, best CRT? What kind of tv was that how many millions did it cost?

edit : bah, read it wrong, thought of a CRT tv doing all that and not a crt monitor.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

Pixel density is going to be ridiculous...

 

[sp3000]

dear lord, best CRT? What kind of tv was that how many millions did it cost?

Mitsubishi Diamondtron 22 inch. Best monitor ever made. I think the only one that was even near close to it in was a 24" Sony FDM Widescreen CRT, the few of it's type ever made but that was around 1500 dollars to cost.

The Mitsubishi cost about 700 when I bought it. Still the best monitor I ever had until it started to have issues with focus. Perfect black levels. No input lag. 1080P at 240hz. No LCD has ever matched it.

 

[Blackface]

PC monitors suck

1080p HD formats pretty much killed monitor R&D to higher resolutions

in 1997 it was all about 800x600
in 1999 it was mostly 1024x768
2001 was finally seeing 1600x1200

2003 saw 1920x1200

2005 went with mainly 1920x1080 and pretty much stayed there for the last 6 years...

1080p i find to be a great resolution. It comes to a point where if you continue to raise the resolution all the time, it gets expensive. You need better hardware and a better monitor. 1080p has allowed LED monitors to drop down to under $199. When the average graphic card can run a game on high over 1080p, up the resolution. Nobody wants to spend $600 just to mee the resolution of their monitor in game.

 

[sp3000]

1080p i find to be a great resolution. It comes to a point where if you continue to raise the resolution all the time, it gets expensive. You need better hardware and a better monitor. 1080p has allowed LED monitors to drop down to under $199. When the average graphic card can run a game on high over 1080p, up the resolution. Nobody wants to spend $600 just to mee the resolution of their monitor in game.

It's an ok resolution, but we've had it for too long. I used to be blown away by playing BF2 on a resolution of 1920x1200. I didn't expect back then I would be play the sequel 5 years later on the same resolution. 2560x1600 should have become the standard as the pixel density for 1080p on a 27" monitor is far too low.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Sony is using the Cell & RSX for 4K video editing so yes the PS3 can do 4K still and 4K video limited to 24HZ because of the HDMI chip limitations.

Show me the retail PS3 that can run Nuke, Flame, Final Cut, or Premier. I don't care what Sony is using those chips for I care about retail units.

Second time and still a serious misunderstanding...read carefully => The GE (General Electric) plastics division created a plastic material that has a high reflective index that allows up to 10 layers using a standard blu-ray laser and blu-ray drive. Only a slight modification is needed to a standard drive. Other PREVIOUS holographic blu-ray drives required a blu-ray laser with much more output which massively increased the cost for the drive. Several months ago GE presented a complete ecosystem from manufacturing to player designs to companies like Sony. GET it, the new drive is supposed to be only a few dollars more expensive that current blu-ray drives. The new disks will each be more expensive causing the first 4K blu-ray movies to be maybe $10 more than current blu-ray movies.

Unless that slight modification can be done for free to all the millions of blu-ray drives on the market and in people's homes right now, it'll never happen. They're having a hard enough time selling people on 1080p discs and the current bluray format, and you think in 2 years they're going to introduce ANOTHER version of it. You're not going to tell all the people who you've finally gotten to buy a bluray player, ohh by the way it's obsolete now, here's another new format. Yes, unless it's compatible with current players to the general populace it is a new format.

Prices have already dropped, Sony has a 12 foot 4K projector for $7500. That down from $20,000 last year...see the trend. $3,000 for a 80 inch is probable in 2 years. We are not talking LCD which may never see inexpensive 4K resolutions & large panels. Both Sony's SXRD and TI's DLP can produce relatively inexpensive 4K rear projection TVs.

8 grand projectors are not MASS MARKET. Mass Market is the stuff that the majority of the population would be considering. Yes one day LCD 4K sets will be inexpensive, in 2016 - 2020 like the experts and the people involved are saying. Show me a 4K DLP rear projection set, cause I can't seem to find anyone any where.

This is like some one in the early 90s saying HDTVs were going to be Mass Market before 2000. I mean shit they were playing with HDTVs, and HD broadcasting back in the 80's. Shit took forever to become mass market.

 

[Blackface]

It's an ok resolution, but we've had it for too long. I used to be blown away by playing BF2 on a resolution of 1920x1200. I didn't expect back then I would be play the sequel 5 years later on the same resolution. 2560x1600 should have become the standard as the pixel density for 1080p on a 27" monitor is far too low.

Most people still don't have 1080p monitors. I think monitors and HD content need to have the same standards for now. We have "had" 1080p for a long time when it comes to monitors. However in terms of main stream purchases, we have not.

I would much rather have a high quality 1080p monitor. LED, with a great panel, that cost me $199. Then spend $350 on a 2560X1600 monitor with a crappy panel.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

after using that apple 27" 2560x1440 cinema display i think i'm cool on this shit for a bit...i couldn't even read text on websites on that thing, everything was so tiny. wonder how they'll sort that out.

 

[Blackface]

after using that apple 27" 2560x1440 cinema display i think i'm cool on this shit for a bit...i couldn't even read text on websites on that thing, everything was so tiny. wonder how they'll sort that out.

Just increase your DPI. You can do it manually. When I am fixing computer for older people I do it for them.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Show me the retail PS3 that can run Nuke, Flame, Final Cut, or Premier. I don't care what Sony is using those chips for I care about retail units.

Your claim was that the PS3 hardware could not handle 4K Video, it can and is being used by Sony for 4K editing.
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/ext/ZEGO/files/BCU-100_Whitepaper.pdf

Unless that slight modification can be done for free to all the millions of blu-ray drives on the market and in people's homes right now, it'll never happen. They're having a hard enough time selling people on 1080p discs and the current bluray format, and you think in 2 years they're going to introduce ANOTHER version of it. You're not going to tell all the people who you've finally gotten to buy a bluray player, ohh by the way it's obsolete now, here's another new format. Yes, unless it's compatible with current players to the general populace it is a new format.

The new drive is backwardly compatible. http://www.genewscenter.com/Press-R...-500-Gigabyte-Disc-at-Blu-ray-Speed-3245.aspx

Notice the nondescript Grey box where a 4K Media Player/Source would be in the following picture. It's a placeholder for the coming 4K blu-ray player.

4K downconverted to 1080P in the following graph results in about a 20% increase in picture quality, everything to the upper right of the pink line but bound by the blue line.

So for those of us who have a good 1080P TV, we can benefit from 4K down-converted to 1080P. What will it cost us....a few dollars more for a 4K capable blu-ray drive and more for the Media it'self.

Sony Playview media is provided in a 4K by 2K format and is view-able on 1080p using zooming. Personal 4K media (Pictures) is available now and viewable with zooming on the PS3 to a 1080P TV and early 2012 view-able on a 4K TV at native 4K resolution. Personal movie 4K soon and there has to be a way to play that also.

In the following picture Sony shows the 4K media devices that can display on their new 4K projector and one of them is a consumer (Home Movie) video camera, one is a PS3.

Notice Sony Pictures is a 4K source to display on the Sony Consumer 4K projection TV. How is Sony going to provide a 4K movie to display on the 4K TV? 4K BLu-ray drive

 

[Freshmaker]

Where is your 1080P God now?

for all the people who didn't think that Next Gen Consoles would be anything over 1080P 60FPS what's your thoughts now that more & more products are going to be using 4K resolution next year?

Realistically?

15fps max settings all over again.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Realistically?

15fps max settings all over again.

Some guesses; the PS4 will support 4K media and more.

The PS4 will use a Display Port interface not HDMI.

1) HDMI can be emulated and an inexpensive HDMI adaptor provided
2) Display Port also can direct drive a LCD panel which would result in a less expensive interface for head mounted displays (cheaper and lighter).
3) Display Port can drive multiple monitors serially at the same time.
4) Display Port refresh rate is not limited by the current HDMI standards. 60Hz 4K is possible.

Given these new abilities I can imagine games using multiple cheaper 1080P TVs.

4K TV is only one use for an interface on the PS4 that easily supports 4K rather than a PS3 that strains to just output 4K video at 24hz.

It's understood that a PS4 will render most games at something below 4K depending on what's being rendered.

4K holographic blu-ray drives will have other uses besides 4K media in the PS4. Large databases and Playview Media may require more than 50 Gigs. Currently on the market are "Classic Collections" of 50 or more black and white movies on 50 DVD disks that are now in the public domain. They can be released on one holographic disk.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

The saddest part is we are starting to see ~4" phone displays with 1280x720 resolution and ppi well over 300.

Panel manufacturers really need to step up their game.

Uh, no they don't. Tell me, what kind of OS is optimized for ultra-high resolutions? How many people would actually be able to take advantage of it? What screen size would you need so that everything isn't microscopic? 40'? The market demand simply isn't there. As long as the OS and all interface elements aren't resolution independent, there's limits to how much resolution is useable at reasonable screen sizes. My 25' screen is 1920x1080, and I wouldn't WANT it to be higher just cause everything would be too damn small. Hi-DPI support in any OS is still half-baked, if even that.

 

[Tarin02543]

Just increase your DPI. You can do it manually. When I am fixing computer for older people I do it for them.

How do you do this? Does Vista have a setting for that?

 

[Snaku]

Can't wait for Ivy Bridge MBA's.

 

[Diablos]

How much is Ivy Bridge expected to cost?

My Q8200 build is seriously lacking, and I'd at some point like to build something new. Wondering if I should just wait until Sandy Bridge drops a little, or wait for Ivy Bridge (of course, I'm sure it will be a fortune).

As far as resolution goes... 1080p, I would think, should be fine for years to come. I don't even mind 720p. I'm more interested in Ivy Bridge performance overall.

 

[eastmen]

Your claim was that the PS3 hardware could not handle 4K Video, it can and is being used by Sony for 4K editing.
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/ext/ZEGO/files/BCU-100_Whitepaper.pdf

Okay I will bite. 4k eidting isn't important . Whats important is the graphical images the ps3 can put up in real time at 4k res. Your frame buffer will be bigger than the avalible amount of ram in the ps3 .

Ps3 4 would need to have a gpu in it more powerful than the geforce gtx 580 just to play current games at 4k resolution

4k resolution is 16,777,216 pixels. 720p is 921,600

Here you can see the ati cards running at 5760x1080p which is 6,220,800 pixels

http://widescreengamingforum.com/article/amd-radeon-6970-6950-review-just-cause-2

It will take 2 video cards just to get 60 fps at this resolution . Not to mention a resolution almost 3 times higher

The new drive is backwardly compatible. http://www.genewscenter.com/Press-R...-500-Gigabyte-Disc-at-Blu-ray-Speed-3245.aspx

Notice the nondescript Grey box where a 4K Media Player/Source would be in the following picture. It's a placeholder for the coming 4K blu-ray player.

Just what we need , a crappy format .

Bluray speeds is quite slow . 1x is required for playback its 4.5MB/s and 12x is 54MB/s

4.5MB/s x60 = 270MB/M . 500 gigs = 500,000 MB . 500,000 MB / 270MB = 1,851 /60 = 30 hours.

It will take 30 hours at 1x bluray speed to transfer or read the data off the disc. This is way to slow for media playback .


Lets use 54MB/s x 60= 3,240MB/M 500,000 / 3,240MB = 154 . It will take 154 minutes or 2h 34m to read back the entire disc .

At bluray speeds this disc would have to fit a 4k stream with lossless audio into 54MB/s space.

According to that article where they are at bluray speeds. I'm not sure how well that will go over or if its something anyone here wants .

4K downconverted to 1080P in the following graph results in about a 20% increase in picture quality, everything to the upper right of the pink line but bound by the blue line.

So for those of us who have a good 1080P TV, we can benefit from 4K down-converted to 1080P. What will it cost us....a few dollars more for a 4K capable blu-ray drive and more for the Media it'self.

well it will require a holographic disc player as you linked to above .

Above and beyond it will require brand new scans of all the movies out and costly restorations and releases . Bluray is still way behind dvd's in sales . A new format is just going to slow down for both formats.

Sony Playview media is provided in a 4K by 2K format and is view-able on 1080p using zooming. Personal 4K media (Pictures) is available now and viewable with zooming on the PS3 to a 1080P TV and early 2012 view-able on a 4K TV at native 4K resolution. Personal movie 4K soon and there has to be a way to play that also.

Is zooming on 4k going to result in pan and scan like the old vhs and non wide screen dvds ? who is going to want that ?

As for personal movies , i'm assuming you mean home recordings. What camera's will we use ? we still need to wait for them to get decent 1080p at night before anyone is going to want 4k video. Not to mention that the media costs to record the 4k is going to be quite high

In the following picture Sony shows the 4K media devices that can display on their new 4K projector and one of them is a consumer (Home Movie) video camera, one is a PS3.

Notice Sony Pictures is a 4K source to display on the Sony Consumer 4K projection TV. How is Sony going to provide a 4K movie to display on the 4K TV? 4K BLu-ray drive

All I notice is there is a projector that can upscale content to 4k from all those devices. A computer can do that also .


When 4k does make it (and i'm betting not till after 2015) its going to be a slow start just like HD tv was back in 2002 . People just aren't going to invest in such expensive screens for limited quanity . The first sensors to film 4k on camrea's will suck just like the first 720p and 1080p cameras .

The major reason people bought HD TVs was because of the size , they were much thinner than crt's and so you could fit a bigger one in the same space . Not to mention the cost was lower.

People aren't going to rush out and buy a 4k tv . It will be expensive at first and there will be hardly any content .

 

[jeff_rigby]

Your claim was that the PS3 hardware could not handle 4K Video, it can and is being used by Sony for 4K editing.
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/ext/ZEGO/files/BCU-100_Whitepaper.pdf

Okay I will bite. 4k eidting isn't important . Whats important is the graphical images the ps3 can put up in real time at 4k res. Your frame buffer will be bigger than the avalible amount of ram in the ps3.

Again, a misunderstanding. Media playback at 4K is possible not playing games. There is way more memory in the PS3 than is needed for media playback.

Ps3 4 would need to have a gpu in it more powerful than the geforce gtx 580 just to play current games at 4k resolution 4k resolution is 16,777,216 pixels. 720p is 921,600

Here you can see the ati cards running at 5760x1080p which is 6,220,800 pixels

http://widescreengamingforum.com/article/amd-radeon-6970-6950-review-just-cause-2

It will take 2 video cards just to get 60 fps at this resolution . Not to mention a resolution almost 3 times higher Just what we need , a crappy format .

Again, it's 4K Media playback on the PS3 not games

Bluray speeds is quite slow . 1x is required for playback its 4.5MB/s and 12x is 54MB/s
4.5MB/s x60 = 270MB/M . 500 gigs = 500,000 MB . 500,000 MB / 270MB = 1,851 /60 = 30 hours.

It will take 30 hours at 1x bluray speed to transfer or read the data off the disc. This is way to slow for media playback .

Lets use 54MB/s x 60= 3,240MB/M 500,000 / 3,240MB = 154 . It will take 154 minutes or 2h 34m to read back the entire disc .

At bluray speeds this disc would have to fit a 4k stream with lossless audio into 54MB/s space. According to that article where they are at bluray speeds. I'm not sure how well that will go over or if its something anyone here wants .

That's understood and Media like the 4K Youtube videos, Home Movies etc. not blu-ray on the PS3. It's understood that the PS3 2X drive is too slow and does not have enough space for 4K movies.

Above and beyond it will require brand new scans of all the movies out and costly restorations and releases . Bluray is still way behind dvd's in sales . A new format is just going to slow down for both formats.

Sony is already doing this.

As for personal movies , i'm assuming you mean home recordings. What camera's will we use ? we still need to wait for them to get decent 1080p at night before anyone is going to want 4k video. Not to mention that the media costs to record the 4k is going to be quite high

JVC and Sony (maybe others) have combination 3-D and 4K cameras in the works. If you look at the picture above for 4K sources for the Sony 4K projector, one was a personal 4K & 3-D movie camera.

When 4k does make it (and i'm betting not till after 2015) its going to be a slow start just like HD tv was back in 2002 . People just aren't going to invest in such expensive screens for limited quanity . The first sensors to film 4k on camrea's will suck just like the first 720p and 1080p cameras .

Wow, you need to read this thread and do some research. The F-65 Exmar R CMOS sensor is EXTREMELY good with exceptional low light characteristics. http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/is-sonys-4k-digital-cinema-sensor-better-than-film/

It was only a matter of time until digital sensor would equal or even surpass the film quality. And with the recent announcement of the Sony F65 camera Sony stated in the F65 brochure (Click here) that this time has now come: “Through all the decades, our design goal has always been to match the photographic quality of 35mm film. But now we’re setting our sights even higher: to surpass the limits of human vision. The F65 image sensor is the first of this new breed”.

The new sensor has a 14 stop dynamic range and a much wider color gamut than film.

The major reason people bought HD TVs was because of the size , they were much thinner than crt's and so you could fit a bigger one in the same space . Not to mention the cost was lower.

People aren't going to rush out and buy a 4k tv . It will be expensive at first and there will be hardly any content .

But the 4K source, new blu-ray drives that work with the GE plastic and the PS4 will be affordable and will be backwardly compatible.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Your claim was that the PS3 hardware could not handle 4K Video, it can and is being used by Sony for 4K editing.
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/ext/ZEGO/files/BCU-100_Whitepaper.pdf

That's NOT a PS3, that's a server blade. So again no retail PS3 out there can do 4K video editing.

The new drive is backwardly compatible.

I don't give 2 flying fucks if it's backwards compatible. HD-DVD, and BD are Backwards compatible with regular DVDs, they're still NEW FORMATS. Just like to the existing 35 - 40 million bluray player owners out there right now who wouldn't be able to use the discs in their players and would have to buy new players. It's not happening any time soon.

What part of if it doesn't work with existing players it's a new format don't you understand? It doesn't matter if if it gives you a better picture, uses a similar laser, or sucks your dick every time you watch a movie, it's still a NEW FUCKING FORMAT.

Sony Playview media is provided in a 4K by 2K format and is view-able on 1080p using zooming. Personal 4K media (Pictures) is available now and viewable with zooming on the PS3 to a 1080P TV and early 2012 view-able on a 4K TV at native 4K resolution. Personal movie 4K soon and there has to be a way to play that also.

In the following picture Sony shows the 4K media devices that can display on their new 4K projector and one of them is a consumer (Home Movie) video camera, one is a PS3.

Notice Sony Pictures is a 4K source to display on the Sony Consumer 4K projection TV. How is Sony going to provide a 4K movie to display on the 4K TV? 4K BLu-ray drive

You didn't answer my questions. Where are there MASS MARKET 4K TVs available? Where are the claimed cheap Rear Projection 4K DLP sets? You can post these fucking images all you want, it doesn't mean shit until products are out, and are MASS MARKET.

Though you think an 8 grand projector is the same as a Mass Market TV, and that something being backwards compatible means its not a new format, so maybe we need to get you a dictionary before we continue.

 

[jeff_rigby]

That's NOT a PS3, that's a server blade. So again no retail PS3 out there can do 4K video editing.

Doesn't matter the physical form, the PS3 hardware can do both 4K still and video; same clock speed, same interface chip, same Cell, same RSX. The rest of your post is an emotional rant with bad language. I'll just close with Sony is moving to 4K as seen in the Pictures I posted. You can argue all you want that no-one will buy it but Sony seems to think so and the whole point of this thread is that Sony is going to support 4K for media on the PS4. Doesn't require reading or a dictionary just look at the pictures.

 

[1-D_FTW]

As I think about it, you're probably right.

That said, I wouldn't expect any AAA titles to be running at that resolution. We'll be lucky if developers can do 1080P @ 60fps next gen. Even that seems like a pipe dream.

And the motivation will be selling TVs. But I'm thinking this'll have even less impact than 3D as a calling card. Many people are sitting 15 feet away from a 50 - 60 inch TV. 1080P is already pretty much placebo effect at that range. Going to 4K is going to be meaningless. Unlike the BS Nintendo spouted early, for mass markets, 1080P is the point of diminishing returns. No one (sane) is bitching about 1080P being blocky.

Projectors? I'm sure they'll be some benefit. Would I throw away an expensive Blu-ray collection to upgrade from 1080p to 4k? No. Again, to me, 3D is a much bigger selling point. So I hope they're not thinking this is going to bring any real sales revolution in Movie or TV sales. Hope they're doing it solely out of fear that they have to match competitors specs.

 

[M3d10n]

4K and 8K screens can be useful before the new content are available to make better auto-stereoscopic 3D TVs.

 

[DeadTrees]

Some guesses; the PS4 will support 4K media and more.

The PS4 will use a Display Port interface not HDMI.

1) HDMI can be emulated and an inexpensive HDMI adaptor provided

An "inexpensive" HDMI-to-Display-Port adapter, when everybody's still too chintzy to pack in HDMI cables?

Come on, camineet, you can end this charade.

 

[Brimstone]

I don't give 2 flying fucks if it's backwards compatible. HD-DVD, and BD are Backwards compatible with regular DVDs, they're still NEW FORMATS. Just like to the existing 35 - 40 million bluray player owners out there right now who wouldn't be able to use the discs in their players and would have to buy new players. It's not happening any time soon.

What part of if it doesn't work with existing players it's a new format don't you understand? It doesn't matter if if it gives you a better picture, uses a similar laser, or sucks your dick every time you watch a movie, it's still a NEW FUCKING FORMAT.

There will be a new physical format that is backwards compatible with Blu-Ray and DVD. In the near future movies are also going to be shot at higher frame rates. Even now The Hobbit is being shot at 48 frames per second, and Avatar 2 will probably be shot at 60 frames per second.

Sony has a new movie 4k camera, the F65, that will be available soon. I wouldn't be suprised if the Uncharted movie, if it gets made, gets shot at 4k at 60 frames per second. It would be a great vehichle to show off the "Beyond HD" Sony is talking about to some of its core audience.

Super Blu-Ray or whatever is comming.

 

[onQ123]

4K and 8K screens can be useful before the new content are available to make better auto-stereoscopic 3D TVs.

yep & people don't understand that, just like they wonder why everyone is making 3D TVs now instead of making better HDTVs when in fact the 3D comes with making the TV better.

 

[androvsky]

Okay I will bite. 4k eidting isn't important . Whats important is the graphical images the ps3 can put up in real time at 4k res. Your frame buffer will be bigger than the avalible amount of ram in the ps3 .

4k resolution is 16,777,216 pixels. 720p is 921,600

Despite the thread title, 4k normally refers to the digital cinema standard of 4096 x 2160, which is 8,847,360 pixels. At 8 bits per color, that's 25 MB per frame of raw, uncompressed video. The PS3 has 256 MB of video memory.

 

[NeoandGeo]

My 24" monitor runs at 1920x1200.

Looks great. No complaints from me.

This for me as well even though I use a 23.6" 1080p monitor at 2 feet away. Games like Witcher 2 and Battlefield 3 look perfect to me on it and when sitting 7 feet away from my 50" 1080p plasma.

Until I am hitting 25"+ screens for my desk and 60"+ screens for my big screen viewing I believe that 1080p is the sweet spot for visual clarity at the distances I use my equipment from.

 

[jeff_rigby]

3D HD 8K Laser Projector on the Horizon from E and S

With very impressive specs and a small environmental footprint, Laser projector technology illuminates a bright future. JVC has already announced their 8K projector (this means approximately 8000 x 8000 resolution or similar equivalent). The unit will also have 3D capability at 4K x 4K resolution. Can you imagine watching ultra high quality HD content in 3D?

• Resolution 32 Megapixel (8192 x 4096)
• Brightness 5000 ANSI Lumens (model ESLP8K-5)
2000 ANSI Lumens (model ESLP8K-2)
• Contrast Ratio 2500:1
• Color Precision 36 bits/pixel (12 bits each, red/green/blue)
nanopixel Modulator
• Integrated silicon light valve based on MEMS technology
• Draws all pixels within an entire column (up to 4K) simultaneously
• Each nanopixel chip has over 8000 precisely controlled reflective elements
• One nanopixel chip per primary color (red, green, blue)
• Response time (full-on to full-off): < 200 nanoseconds
• Zero smearing of moving images (zero persistence)
• No visible boundaries between pixels

E&S Laser Light Sources
• Second-generation hybrid lasers based on solid-state diode technology
• Do not require regular maintenance or replacement (lifetime in excess of 30K
hours)
• Expanded color space (200% of NTSC/HDTV)
• Combines patented E&S direct conversion diode-pumped solid-state highpower
lasers with NECSEL™ laser diode bar devices
• Efficient and cool
• 635 nm, 532 nm, 465 nm lasers (red, green, blue)

Optics - Available Configurations
• Domes or spherical section screens:
• 160° Field-of-view Fisheye Lens
• Flat Screens:
• 1.75 Throw Ratio Flat Field Lens
• (Additional throw ratios TBA)
• Panoramic or cylindrical screens:
• LaserWide® scanner, up to 220° Horizontal F.O.V.

Video Formats
• Vertical: 4096, 2048, or 1024 pixels
• Horizontal: Integer multiple of 8 pixels, up to 8192
• Refresh Rate: Programmable, 60 - 120 Hz
• 3-D Stereoscopic @ 4096 x 4096, 120 Hz
• All settings controlled by flexible remote Windows® client GUI

Interface
• DVI (single-link, 16 ports/connectors)
• HDMI 1.3, HDSDI interfaces on request
• 10/100 Ethernet port for control/diagnostic remote client

And it's understood that this is a custom for theater type venues with the 160 degree panarama screen. Only point I'm making is that cameras are available to create the 8K video this projector will display. The bar is not 4K for video but in Sony whitepapers, Sony has decided that 4K will be their next standard.

 

[cartman414]

There will be a new physical format that is backwards compatible with Blu-Ray and DVD. In the near future movies are also going to be shot at higher frame rates. Even now The Hobbit is being shot at 48 frames per second, and Avatar 2 will probably be shot at 60 frames per second.

Sony has a new movie 4k camera, the F65, that will be available soon. I wouldn't be suprised if the Uncharted movie, if it gets made, gets shot at 4k at 60 frames per second. It would be a great vehichle to show off the "Beyond HD" Sony is talking about to some of its core audience.

Super Blu-Ray or whatever is comming.

What he's saying is that it'll require the purchase of another brand new drive, quite possibly not long after getting used to another.

How much is Ivy Bridge expected to cost?

My Q8200 build is seriously lacking, and I'd at some point like to build something new. Wondering if I should just wait until Sandy Bridge drops a little, or wait for Ivy Bridge (of course, I'm sure it will be a fortune).

As far as resolution goes... 1080p, I would think, should be fine for years to come. I don't even mind 720p. I'm more interested in Ivy Bridge performance overall.

New processors come out in the same pricing tiers, believe it or not. Markdowns are rare, as a matter of fact.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Doesn't matter the physical form, the PS3 hardware can do both 4K still and video; same clock speed, same interface chip, same Cell, same RSX. The rest of your post is an emotional rant with bad language. I'll just close with Sony is moving to 4K as seen in the Pictures I posted. You can argue all you want that no-one will buy it but Sony seems to think so and the whole point of this thread is that Sony is going to support 4K for media on the PS4. Doesn't require reading or a dictionary just look at the pictures.

YES IT DOES MATTER THE PHYSICAL FORM! The motherboard is completely different, and I would bet money it's not the exact same cell chip in there. It also has a 1 gig of ram compared to the PS3's 256 megs of ram for the Cell. That's 4X as much. It's not the same as the PS3 supporting something.

How is stating that not being able to use a format on the current plays means its a new format, an emotion rant? Or is it that you're off in fairy la la land with your head in the sand and don't want to look at the truth?

I never said 4K wouldn't happen, just that it's not happening in the next 2 - 3 years. Which the experts working on it even say isn't happening.

You keep ignoring the facts, when the PS4 doesn't support 4K and a holographic bluray drive try to not have too big of a meltdown. LOL at bad language.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

There will be a new physical format that is backwards compatible with Blu-Ray and DVD. In the near future movies are also going to be shot at higher frame rates. Even now The Hobbit is being shot at 48 frames per second, and Avatar 2 will probably be shot at 60 frames per second.

Sony has a new movie 4k camera, the F65, that will be available soon. I wouldn't be suprised if the Uncharted movie, if it gets made, gets shot at 4k at 60 frames per second. It would be a great vehichle to show off the "Beyond HD" Sony is talking about to some of its core audience.

Super Blu-Ray or whatever is comming.

Sure a new format will come a long at some point. It's not coming a long in the next 2 - 3 years when they haven't even gotten bluray established as the mainstream format.

Also RED has had cameras that shoot at 4K for some time now. Just because films are being shot at digital 4K doesn't mean we're going to have a new format, or new mainstream 4K televisions around the corner. They've been doing 4K scans on movies shot in 35mm for years now. Hasn't sped up a 4K format or 4K televisions. Stores still have HUGE dvd sections, there's no way they can successfully launch yet another new format any time soon.

This is all still far a ways enough off that to consider it for the PS4 is just being really silly.

 

[jeff_rigby]

YES IT DOES MATTER THE PHYSICAL FORM! The motherboard is completely different, and I would bet money it's not the exact same cell chip in there. It also has a 1 gig of ram compared to the PS3's 256 megs of ram for the Cell. That's 4X as much. It's not the same as the PS3 supporting something.

You'd loose the bet, I checked and it is the same chipset as in the PS3, that was the point. 4K video playback requires some 25 Megabit/sec transfer speed and the PS3-RSX has a 20 gigabit/sec transfer speed (1000x faster). Video editing requires more memory than playing the video.

The weak point in the PS3 is the HDMI chip which limits the 4K video output to a 24hz framerate which is the blu-ray 1080P standard.

Sure a new format will come a long at some point. It's not coming a long in the next 2 - 3 years when they haven't even gotten bluray established as the mainstream format.

Also RED has had cameras that shoot at 4K for some time now. Just because films are being shot at digital 4K doesn't mean we're going to have a new format, or new mainstream 4K televisions around the corner. They've been doing 4K scans on movies shot in 35mm for years now. Hasn't sped up a 4K format or 4K televisions. Stores still have HUGE dvd sections, there's no way they can successfully launch yet another new format any time soon.

This is all still far a ways enough off that to consider it for the PS4 is just being really silly.

In articles Sony is not able to compete in the LCD TV market. There is a glut of LCD panels on the market and 1080P LCD TVs are cheap now. As a result Sony has moved on to the next generation TV and resolution standards. Do a search and pull up articles to confirm...this is recent news with Sony in negotiations with Samsung to pull out of their 50% partnership in the LCD production plant.

Look at the pictures and consider what they mean in light of the recent news. CES (Jan 10 2012) will confirm other Japanese companys are also working on the next generation TVs and also have complete ecosystems in place to support 4K. This is all happening sooner than you are projecting, that is the major difference in our viewpoints.

Sony, JVC, Sharp, Panasonic are all in the same position and are all releasing 4K TVs, Cameras etc. Samsung and to a lesser extent LG are pushing the Japanese companies to the next generation where Sony (only company I am up on) has an advantage because of their Cmos EXMOR R image sensors and projection systems.

Multiple advances in technology have to be in place to support 4K's 4X 1080P video information, this includes:

1) less than 30nm Fab processes and as of late 2011 is in place.
2) GE's plastic allowing the use of current blu-ray drive designs for Holigraphic drives projected for 2011 and there is the 3 month old news of a complete ecosystem design from GE (from production to player) for an inexpensive 4K blu-ray drive.
3) The pictures and past news from Sony confirm the 4K Media is ready.

I've been in the consumer electronics business for 41 years and have seen the Japanese take over the TV industry, Korean and Chinese firms pay Japanese engineers to Fly to their country and provide stolen designs for 4 year Japanese TVs that were hand assembled. Later Korean companies like Samsung become the leader because of price and the then Sony president complain about the US consumer as stupid for purchasing cheap over quality.

Prior to 2004 Samsung TVs were inferior and with LCD and DLP technology after 2004 Samsung proved to be as good as the Japanese in those technologies.

It is no coincidence that Brasil, Japan, China and Korea are all in the UHD race and that these technologies are being sponsored by those governments.

This thread is a perfect example in that the CPUs and GPUs in the OP are being designed with 4K video in mind. That is NOW but you can't see that everyone is gearing up to support 4K as the next standard. I find your comments short sighted rather than "Silly".

 

[1-D_FTW]

You'd loose the bet, I checked and it is the same chipset as in the PS3, that was the point. 4K video playback requires some 25 Megabit/sec transfer speed and the PS3-RSX has a 20 gigabit/sec transfer speed (1000x faster). Video editing requires more memory than playing the video.

The weak point in the PS3 is the HDMI chip which limits the 4K video output to a 24hz framerate which is the blu-ray 1080P standard.

In articles Sony is not able to compete in the LCD TV market. There is a glut of LCD panels on the market and 1080P LCD TVs are cheap now. As a result Sony has moved on to the next generation TV and resolution standards. Do a search and pull up articles to confirm...this is recent news with Sony in negotiations with Samsung to pull out of their 50% partnership in the LCD production plant.

Look at the pictures and consider what they mean in light of the recent news. CES (Jan 10 2012) will confirm other Japanese companys are also working on the next generation TVs and also have complete ecosystems in place to support 4K. This is all happening sooner than you are projecting, that is the major difference in our viewpoints.

Sony, JVC, Sharp, Panasonic are all in the same position and are all releasing 4K TVs, Cameras etc. Samsung and to a lesser extent LG are pushing the Japanese companies to the next generation where Sony (only company I am up on) has an advantage because of their Cmos EXMOR R image sensors and projection systems.

Multiple advances in technology have to be in place to support 4K's 4X 1080P video information, this includes:

1) less than 30nm Fab processes and as of late 2011 is in place.
2) GE's plastic allowing the use of current blu-ray drive designs for Holigraphic drives projected for 2011 and there is the 3 month old news of a complete ecosystem design from GE (from production to player) for an inexpensive 4K blu-ray drive.
3) The pictures and past news from Sony confirm the 4K Media is ready.

I've been in the consumer electronics business for 41 years and have seen the Japanese take over the TV industry, Korean and Chinese firms pay Japanese engineers to Fly to their country and provide stolen designs for 4 year Japanese TVs that were hand assembled. Later Korean companies like Samsung become the leader because of price and the then Sony president complain about the US consumer as stupid for purchasing cheap over quality.

Prior to 2004 Samsung TVs were inferior and with LCD and DLP technology after 2004 Samsung proved to be as good as the Japanese in those technologies.

It is no coincidence that Brasil, Japan, China and Korea are all in the UHD race and that these technologies are being sponsored by those governments.

This thread is a perfect example in that the CPUs and GPUs in the OP are being designed with 4K video in mind. That is NOW but you can't see that everyone is gearing up to support 4K as the next standard. I find your comments short sighted rather than "Silly".

It's funny how different people read that article as different things depending on their wishes. When I saw that article pop up in RSS feed yesterday, I immediately thought of OLED (with the Vita and Sony HMZ-T1 leading the way... albiet in small sizes at first).

I think it's a combination of all. But I still think OLED has a much brighter future as a premium product than 4k or 8k.

 

[jeff_rigby]

It's funny how different people read that article as different things depending on their wishes. When I saw that article pop up in RSS feed yesterday, I immediately thought of OLED (with the Vita and Sony HMZ-T1 leading the way... albiet in small sizes at first).

I think it's a combination of all. But I still think OLED has a much brighter future as a premium product than 4k or 8k.

Sony-Samsung Article being referenced

You could be right and some internal breakthrough at Sony is allowing OLED and possibly 4K to be practical in larger screens and Sony is getting rid of their stake in LCD production. I kinda doubt that though. All the articles and news from Sony is about projection 4K.

OLED is still very high end and small form factor : http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-mo...=O:BPSEG_OLED:Google_PubDis_GEN_oledpnl_p_ad2

http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/cat/mondisp/solutions/OLED_White_Paper.pdf


Breakthrough in OLED technology

June 2011

This breakthrough has overcome the weakness of the blue emitters on short lifetime and poor colour quality, and it is likely to make OLED displays the next wave in consumer displays.

By changing the thickness of the light emitting layer and optimising the concentration of light emitting material in the same layer, the researchers double the OLED efficiency from the current maximum 5% EQE.

This breakthrough enable manufacturers of full colour OLED displays to make devices that have significantly longer lifetime, consume less power and more importantly, can emit pure, and brighter blue light that will give more life-like colours to OLED displays compared to LCDs and LEDs.

In addition, the material is also solution-processable making it easy to manufacture and cost-effective. This could greatly enhance the attractiveness of OLED displays in the consumer market.

Quite possible to have demos of larger OLED screens at CES 2011 in addition to the 4K platforms I expect.

More news: http://www.marketwire.com/press-rel...D-Production-Set-Increase-Tenfold-1369546.htm

by mid-2011 Strasser expects global OLED production to have multiplied tenfold and promises numerous new, exciting products in the future.

OLED have already reached the mass markets in smartphones: companies like Nokia and Samsung have a few models with OLED displays on the market. "In the future, almost all smartphones will include OLED,"

The advance in technology will continue at a record pace in 2011. Strasser: "The manufacturers have recognised the future of OLEDs. LG Display and Samsung Mobile Display alone will be investing EUR13b in new OLED production sites over the coming five years. A similar sum was invested in LCD technology at the time. It's clear: in the coming years, OLED will also conquer the Flat-TV market and will gradually replace LCD and plasma technology."

Erich Strasser: "As soon as 2011, LG plans to offer a 31" OLED 3D TV. And Samsung is even planning rollable OLED TVs within the next 24 months."

Samsung Mobile Display and LG-Display developed successful a 55 inch OLED-Television device. Both korean companies reached the goal to produce a 55 inch OLED-Tv prototype for technical testing.

Samsung uses their 5.5G line with Small Maks Scanning technology (SMS) instead of Fine Metal Maks (FMM). LG-Display is using their white OLED with color filters. LG and SMD are satisfied with the panels quality, power consumption and lifetime.

LG plans to introduce a 55 inch OLED-Tv in the second quarter 2012, also SMD develop a 8G test production line for large AMOLED-Tvs.

Industry insiders (etnews) told us that SMD and LG showcase a 55 inch OLED-Tv at the FPD-International 2012 in Japan or at the CES-2012 in Las Vegas.

Oxide TFT AMOLED manufacturing costs 34% less than LTPS AMOLED or 28% less than LCD panel

Check out this report:
Display_AMOLED_ReportE_201108_final_1

We view oxide TFT technology as the most optimal for large AMOLED panel production. Although the oxide TFT AMOLED panel is technologically inferior to LPTS AMOLED, it could be the best choice in terms of cost competitiveness, which is crucial for the large panels used in TVs. In contrast to LTPS, oxide TFT technology is compatible with the process and equipment of existing LCD-use TFT lines, which sharply reduces the initial capex burden for AMOLED panel makers.

The technology has not been applied for mass production and thus the production yield remains uncertain. However, many panel makers are now preparing for mass
production by applying oxide TFT technology to existing LCD lines and will soon start the pilot test.

In addition to AMOLED panels, high-end glassless 3D and ultradefinition LCD panels can be built on the oxide TFT technology. As such, the oxide TFT technology will allow panel makers to diversify product lineups.

So 4K OLED panels are coming and are cost effective. Shown at CES 2012 and available in mass market & affordable quantities 2014.

I'd expect 4K Computer monitors will be available in 2012.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

You'd loose the bet, I checked and it is the same chipset as in the PS3, that was the point. 4K video playback requires some 25 Megabit/sec transfer speed and the PS3-RSX has a 20 gigabit/sec transfer speed (1000x faster). Video editing requires more memory than playing the video.

It has a different motherboard, 4x as much XDR for the CPU, a different south bridge chip, and a daughter board that allows it to have 8 gigs of DDR2 ram. THAT'S NOT A PS3. That's like saying a server based on the Pentium III was an Xbox. There's more differences than there are similarities. You can not install linux, and then Nuke onto a PS3 and do 4K video editing, there for NO, the PS3 does not do 4K video editing.

In articles Sony is not able to compete in the LCD TV market. There is a glut of LCD panels on the market and 1080P LCD TVs are cheap now. As a result Sony has moved on to the next generation TV and resolution standards. Do a search and pull up articles to confirm...this is recent news with Sony in negotiations with Samsung to pull out of their 50% partnership in the LCD production plant.

It's because Sony is putting it's chips behind OLED, not because of a move to 4K.

Look at the pictures and consider what they mean in light of the recent news. CES (Jan 10 2012) will confirm other Japanese companys are also working on the next generation TVs and also have complete ecosystems in place to support 4K. This is all happening sooner than you are projecting, that is the major difference in our viewpoints.

Dude just because shit is shown at CES and developers claim to have ecosystems to make it in, doesn't mean it's hitting the mainstream any time soon. Remember when SED was the future and it never made it out the door. Remember when they were working on HDTVs in the 80's and it was still not for another decade + till it hit mainstream markets.

Sony, JVC, Sharp, Panasonic are all in the same position and are all releasing 4K TVs, Cameras etc. Samsung and to a lesser extent LG are pushing the Japanese companies to the next generation where Sony (only company I am up on) has an advantage because of their Cmos EXMOR R image sensors and projection systems.

Really? So where are the sets from JVC, Sharp, Sony, and Panasonic that I can walk into best buy and buy in the next 12 years? How come any time I ask you to show me a supposed product you don't have anything. Infact the only 2 confirmed consumer products announced at CES were Toshiba's set, and Sony's projector. Which here we are in November and neither still have a ship date. Plus the price on both of them is astronomical, with the Toshiba being hinted at 8 grand and the Sony Projector hinted at being 14 grand (and both of those prices were as of the beginning of October of this year). Neither of those products is mass market, both of them are for the ultra high scale market.

Multiple advances in technology have to be in place to support 4K's 4X 1080P video information, this includes:

1) less than 30nm Fab processes and as of late 2011 is in place.
2) GE's plastic allowing the use of current blu-ray drive designs for Holigraphic drives projected for 2011 and there is the 3 month old news of a complete ecosystem design from GE (from production to player) for an inexpensive 4K blu-ray drive.
3) The pictures and past news from Sony confirm the 4K Media is ready.

Listen dude I never said 4K as a technology wouldn't happen, just that it's not happening in the next 2 - 3 years. Which it's not going to. There will not be mass market sets that support 4K resolutions at mass market prices by 2013. Again in regard to number 2, unless holographic BDs can be played in a standard BD drive that 40+ million people own right now, they're not going to release a new format this soon. Consumers would be at their door with pitchforks. You just told everyone to rebuy their movie collection on BD, you're not going to tell them in 2012 to rebuy their movie collection in HBD. It's not a matter of when the technology is in place. It's about knowing when to release something to the consumer that they'll be open to buying.

I've been in the consumer electronics business for 41 years and have seen the Japanese take over the TV industry, Korean and Chinese firms pay Japanese engineers to Fly to their country and provide stolen designs for 4 year Japanese TVs that were hand assembled. Later Korean companies like Samsung become the leader because of price and the then Sony president complain about the US consumer as stupid for purchasing cheap over quality.

And this has nothing to do with the issue at hand. If you've been in the business for 41 years then you should know the average consumer can't tell the difference in quality in most things. It's always been afford-ability that has sold things. It's specially bad that Sony's president doesn't know that.

Prior to 2004 Samsung TVs were inferior and with LCD and DLP technology after 2004 Samsung proved to be as good as the Japanese in those technologies.

This has NOTHING to do with what's being discussed here.

It is no coincidence that Brasil, Japan, China and Korea are all in the UHD race and that these technologies are being sponsored by those governments.

It doesn't mean it's reaching the mass market in the timeframe you're claiming. Which is the only time I've ever seen this time frame claimed either. Yes as I've said 50 billion times, 4K is coming, just not when you think it is.

This thread is a perfect example in that the CPUs and GPUs in the OP are being designed with 4K video in mind. That is NOW but you can't see that everyone is gearing up to support 4K as the next standard. I find your comments short sighted rather than "Silly".

Dude that doesn't mean shit. I was playing PC games at higher than SD and fairly close to HD resolutions in the 90's. Didn't mean HD was hitting in the next year or two. PC tech is always a good number of years ahead of televisions. Hell I was rendering stuff out at 4K res for print stuff back in the late 90's. Shit I worked on 2 movies earlier this year and dealt with 2k and 4k plates. Movies have been being scanned in at 4K res for the top end stuff for close to a decade now. It doesn't change the fact that we're still a good 5 - 10 years off from the average consumer being able to buy a 4K television set.

14+ grand projectors that support 4K are nothing new, and are no indication of what's going to be available commercially for the average consumer in the next year or two.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Really? So where are the sets from JVC, Sharp, Sony, and Panasonic that I can walk into best buy and buy in the next 12 years? How come any time I ask you to show me a supposed product you don't have anything. Infact the only 2 confirmed consumer products announced at CES were Toshiba's set, and Sony's projector. Which here we are in November and neither still have a ship date. Plus the price on both of them is astronomical, with the Toshiba being hinted at 14 grand and the Sony Projector hinted at being 7 grand (and both of those prices were as of the beginning of October of this year). Neither of those products is mass market, both of them are for the ultra high scale market.

Listen dude I never said 4K as a technology wouldn't happen, just that it's not happening in the next 2 - 3 years. Which it's not going to. There will not be mass market sets that support 4K resolutions at mass market prices by 2013. Again in regard to number 2, unless holographic BDs can be played in a standard BD drive that 40+ million people own right now, they're not going to release a new format this soon. Consumers would be at their door with pitchforks. You just told everyone to rebuy their movie collection on BD, you're not going to tell them in 2012 to rebuy their movie collection in HBD. It's not a matter of when the technology is in place. It's about knowing when to release something to the consumer that they'll be open to buying.

"Dude", don't you get that the Cell-RSX is 1000 times faster than needed to display (NOT edit) video and the PS3 will be able to display a still picture which is a repeating video frame at 24Hz so the southbridge (using your terminology) and HDMI chip can handle 4K video. It can not display from the PS3 blu-ray player but can display clips from the Hard Disk and/or Memory. This is confirmed two ways now with the announcement from Sony of 4K still frame early 2012.

1) CES 2012 should have more information
2) OLED is now 28% cheaper to produce than an LCD panel and can use the same assembly plant/equipment.
3) It allows for a smaller pitch or space between dots which supports 4K or glassless 3-D
4) 2014 is predicted to be when both Samsung and LG mass produce OLED both 1080P and 4K panels.
5) 2014 is when the PS4 is supposed to be released.

Both LG and Samsung will probably show their OLED 55 inch panels at CES 2012. LG is into glass less and polarized glasses 3-D so we might see a 4K version from them.

All this is new news to me (thanks to 1-D_FTW for bringing this up) and we need to think through the impact OLED is going to have as it's a game changer.