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Is Halo dying?
- Thread starter Knocks
- Start date
bigboss370
Member
I guess we'll find out once the Destiny beta hits.
Sometimes problems with a series don't show up in the sales until a game or two later. 4 definitely seemed to be a miss with the community, 5 will probably tell us if 343 is actually not up to the job, or if they just got off on the wrong foot and it'll be fine.
R3TRODYCE
Member
Not in my eyes; I was a huge Halo fan since the beginning but then last gen Bungie released 2 shit games and a decent expansion pack so I figured I was growing out of Halo. I picked up Halo 4 and thought it was flawed but a better effort than what Bungie cranked out last Gen so I'm eagerly anticipating Halo 5 and Destiny is nowhere on my purchase list because Bungie has burned me too many times.
I trust them.
Brianimaniac
Banned
It ran for a decade under its original creators. How much more do you need?
Gamers are insatiable. I think there was a thread yesterday where someone was concerned that there wasn't a FOURTEENTH King of Fighters game.
Gamers are insatiable. I think there was a thread yesterday where someone was concerned that there wasn't a FOURTEENTH King of Fighters game.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
That makes no sense.
I think the Destiny campaign will easily surpass Halo 4's weaksauce campaign.. but the jury is still out on the adversarial MP, and the more I hear about it the more concerned I am about it. I don't see it being anything like Halo
I don't know when we will see balanced MP return. Everything is loadouts and perks and progression systems now, everywhere.
I hate it.
NullPointer
Member
Then I have to imagine that Battlefield 4 is deader than a doornail. Maybe never even had a whisper of a chance at living ;p
TheSinkingKnight
Member
This image that they used at GDC a while back put a bad taste in my mouth. I know that made me question my Halo 4 purchase.
http://gyazo.com/cef3a48c6535d9c37fd671672d1a1f1b.png?1364595228
http://gyazo.com/cef3a48c6535d9c37fd671672d1a1f1b.png?1364595228
Halo 4 maybe have been less popular and had competitive gaming flaws but its far from a dying franchise... They are going to make a tv show with speilburg in charge... Not exactly an IP with no pulse.
I do think they need to sort out a better polished game and return to some of its roots in 5 but far far from dying.
I do think they need to sort out a better polished game and return to some of its roots in 5 but far far from dying.
ThatStupidLion
Gold Member
wait...the series went on after 2?
It's definitely a franchise in mindshare/relevance decline, but I don't think it's anywhere near damaged enough to the point that releasing a notably high quality game wouldn't shoot it way back up.
I think the key is to not play it super safe and evolve the franchise in a way that's both new and resonates with people instead of just in a way that makes it look more like other popular games even if those ideas don't mesh naturally with what Halo is.
I think the key is to not play it super safe and evolve the franchise in a way that's both new and resonates with people instead of just in a way that makes it look more like other popular games even if those ideas don't mesh naturally with what Halo is.
This multiplayer thread has some good ideas. It mostly averages out as either 2 or 3, hybrids and CE.
There's a bit more to Halo 4 than just 30-40% of the campaign...
and all those copies were sold right back to gamestop within a month
ShockingAlberto
Member
It was once the biggest event in gaming.
Now it's just really, really popular.
It's a downgrade, but it's downgraded to a position most other game series would kill to be at.
Now it's just really, really popular.
It's a downgrade, but it's downgraded to a position most other game series would kill to be at.
Is it even clear yet what kind of campaign structure Destiny has? So far it looks more like Borderlands which would be vastly different from the classic Halo campaigns
I'd probably find a way to break away from Microsoft and create a new franchise combining the interesting elements of Halo while mixing in fresh ideas.
lifeexpectancy
Member
I think your OP is failing to consider a lot of factors in whether or not it is 'dying'.
Is it on the decline? Yes. Can it rebound? Who knows.
As a matter of course, it should also be noted that even the juggernaught that is CoD is technically 'on the decline', although I don't know if one title (Ghosts) can really be used as a barometer for saying there is a downward trend for the IP as a whole.
Halo, however, has had decline in two (three if you count ODST) titles since its heyday of Halo 3. So you can sort of say it is trending downward and/or declining in popularity, but with millions of copies sold it is by no means dead.
You also say that a lot expect Destiny to be genre-defining for the FPS genre. I would like links to where you read that, because I don't think anyone really expects Destiny to "define" the FPS genre, especially since it sounds a lot more like Defiance (terrible game, btw, hopefully Destiny does it right) than it does Halo/CoD/BF. A hybrid FPS/3PS MMO like Defiance with an open world and persistent online is never going to define a genre that is dominated and dictated by drop-in drop-out games like Halo/BF/CoD. In fact I would venture to say that more people are hyping up Titanfall to be the next genre-defining title, not Destiny. We shall see if TF can live up to the hype.
As far as I can tell CoD primarily, and to a lesser extent Halo and Battlefield (perhaps not the broken mess that is BF4) still pretty much define the FPS genre. They are the trinity that ever single other FPS is measured against, and probably will be for some time to come unless TF fulfills the expectations and hype surrounding it.
TL;DR I think Halo is on the decline, but far from dead.
So basically you'd do what Bungie has already done and create Destiny. ;p
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Lol thanks for the emphasis on that change below, wow.
I honestly don't know why I pointed it out other than ridiculous anal-retentiveness.
Is it on the decline? Yes. Can it rebound? Who knows.
As a matter of course, it should also be noted that even the juggernaught that is CoD is technically 'on the decline', although I don't know if one title (Ghosts) can really be used as a barometer for saying there is a downward trend for the IP as a whole.
Halo, however, has had decline in two (three if you count ODST) titles since its heyday of Halo 3. So you can sort of say it is trending downward and/or declining in popularity, but with millions of copies sold it is by no means dead.
You also say that a lot expect Destiny to be genre-defining for the FPS genre. I would like links to where you read that, because I don't think anyone really expects Destiny to "define" the FPS genre, especially since it sounds a lot more like Defiance (terrible game, btw, hopefully Destiny does it right) than it does Halo/CoD/BF. A hybrid FPS/3PS MMO like Defiance with an open world and persistent online is never going to define a genre that is dominated and dictated by drop-in drop-out games like Halo/BF/CoD. In fact I would venture to say that more people are hyping up Titanfall to be the next genre-defining title, not Destiny. We shall see if TF can live up to the hype.
As far as I can tell CoD primarily, and to a lesser extent Halo and Battlefield (perhaps not the broken mess that is BF4) still pretty much define the FPS genre. They are the trinity that ever single other FPS is measured against, and probably will be for some time to come unless TF fulfills the expectations and hype surrounding it.
TL;DR I think Halo is on the decline, but far from dead.
So basically you'd do what Bungie has already done and create Destiny. ;p
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Lol thanks for the emphasis on that change below, wow.
I honestly don't know why I pointed it out other than ridiculous anal-retentiveness.
MrGreencastle
Member
Sales wise? Is the next Halo game X1 exclusive? If so, then I can't see it selling as well as Halo 4 short term. I still think it will do well for them, though.
Game population wise? The MP PEAKED at 3, and has been on the decline since. I think it's more likely that traditional "Halo style arena shooters" are dying, more than Halo itself dying (not that Halo 4 even gave that notion a chance). I think it's likely you'll see 343 try to make Halo adapt, rather than pave new ground using Microsoft's biggest franchise.
Game population wise? The MP PEAKED at 3, and has been on the decline since. I think it's more likely that traditional "Halo style arena shooters" are dying, more than Halo itself dying (not that Halo 4 even gave that notion a chance). I think it's likely you'll see 343 try to make Halo adapt, rather than pave new ground using Microsoft's biggest franchise.
poopninjamvc3mk
I sucked six dicks to get this tag.
RIP Halo 4. Multiplayer died quicker than every previous Halo like damn. Even Halo Reach which was at first hated lasted longer.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Halo seems to have this identity crisis ever since after Halo 3 released. They've been trying to use the books to keep the people who are in it for the lore and the sci fi elements interested but they've been catering the games for a completely different audience.
At least that's the impression I've been getting.
At least that's the impression I've been getting.
Well, of course the numbers will be high on a free game that most xbox fans use to love for it's multiplayer but probably since sold. That still doesn't change the fact that halo 4 sold a ton and i have no doubt halo 5 will sell just as many. Saying a game that sells as many copies as halo is "dead" is just wrong.
The numbers have dropped by a large amount since halo 3 period. I think it has more to do with people just being tired of the same thing more than the newest being bad. Don't get me wrong, halo 4 wasn't may fav, still would prefer halo 3 with better net code, but when people say halo 4 and halo reach were bad... i think most have just tired from the series and they don't even realize it.
That's why in my post above i said the only way "in my opinion" they could revive the series to it's former levels of popularity is to completely change the game, but they kinda tried to do that with armor abilities and stuff and it just pissed off veterans of the game. Change to much and people wish it was like the others, change to little and it feels to much like the last.
They didn't play it super safe with 4 by any means, and all that accomplished was the majority of its hardcore fans disliking it. Getting further away from its original formula is just going to make it even worse mindshare/relevance wise.
They need to go back to the basics , but they won't. I have 0 faith in 343 making the Halo I want.
Honestly I think there's still a lot you can do with these franchises if you're willing to take risks.
The Elder Scrolls started in 1994 and is stronger than ever.
If people feel your franchise is getting stale, the key is to actually try to liven it up instead of letting it fade into the background while milking what little is left in its body.
Can it blow up in your face? Sure, but it's better to take the risk than live with the certainty of constant decline.
The idea is taking the right risks, not taking no risks at all. Otherwise we'd see astronomical sales for things like Halo Anniversary.
You don't want a franchise to lose its identity, but you don't want it to never grow or evolve either.
I found the AI, enemy design, encounter design, and overall feedback in Halo4 to be lacking by Halo standards. It was all flash for me. The story was batshit, but I dont really play videogames for stories personally.
Oh Wise Sage, tell us how it should be, and how these men and woman will never be able.
For me, Halo lies dormant. It was easily one of my favorite franchises of all time. But after 4 and the changing of hands with 343i? I'm skeptical that the magic will ever return. I'll keep an open mind for Halo 5, but for the first time in the series, I will neither line up or preorder the game. Instead waiting for reviews, word of mouth, and trusted opinions to guide wether or not I dip my toe back in.
I really do hope 343i proves me wrong. But I wouldn't at all be surprised if they don't.
I really do hope 343i proves me wrong. But I wouldn't at all be surprised if they don't.
lifeexpectancy
Member
I wish I could agree with the 'change too little' argument, but changing very little has been what CoD does every fucking year for a decade and they seem to be doing just fine. I kinda wish they had at least TRIED to change very little from Halo 3 to Halo Reach. I honestly think a big part of the decline is that they changed so much going from 3 to Reach that they lost a ton of fans, and those fans have since never come back.
At the risk of starting a Halo vs CoD thing... Please don't guys, I'm only saying the following for the sake of conjecture. I like both titles well enough, I just prefer Halo to CoD. At any rate, here goes:
I think a big part of the disparity between Halo and CoD is the instant gratification in CoD. There is much less of a skill gap in a game like CoD where it's basically 'he who shoots first wins' most of the time. The kill times are so damn fast that even a bad player can take down a good player a lot of the time if they get the first shot fired. There's traditionally been a great deal more reaction time in Halo, meaning a very skilled player might take a sucker punch from a less skilled player, but they will react and out-gun them a lot of the time. That mechanic is very off putting for a lot of folks, hence why I believe CoD is more popular. My wife for instance cannot ever get a single kill in Halo multiplayer (at least she couldn't in Halo 3 or vanilla Reach) unless she gets lucky with a grenade throw or something. But if she picks up the controller in CoD she can usually get a few kills in a match. Sure she still goes way negative, but 3 and 10 is much more gratifying for her than 0 and 15...
tokyostomp
Banned
NullPointer
Member
Halo should stick to what its done best and what separates it from the crowd: Lengthy, replayable campaigns, arena style deathmatch modes (no perks), and big team battles with its eclectic but balanced mix of infantry and vehicle combat.
There's real competition on the consoles that didn't exist to this extent when Halo make its name and was able to keep that hypetrain going. So I don't expect it ever to regain its hallowed status of old, but it can still do more than well enough, and it can still be seen as a flagship Xbox title.
My worries are Kinect, microtransactions, linear, directed experiences, multiplayer perks and unlocks, and transmedia TV integration nonsense. There are a lot of landmines 343 will need to avoid to right this ship.
There's real competition on the consoles that didn't exist to this extent when Halo make its name and was able to keep that hypetrain going. So I don't expect it ever to regain its hallowed status of old, but it can still do more than well enough, and it can still be seen as a flagship Xbox title.
My worries are Kinect, microtransactions, linear, directed experiences, multiplayer perks and unlocks, and transmedia TV integration nonsense. There are a lot of landmines 343 will need to avoid to right this ship.
I like this.
It's pretty much what think is wrong with halo too. Well, that combined with the halo universe being beat to death at this point. One good thing for the next game is that people finally seem to be over cod. They might be ready for something new to latch on to. Honestly, i think titanfall has a better chance of taking over the online space from cod due to it being different and fresh, but thats just imo.
Yeah, but there's only 5 Elder Scrolls games, 6 if you include the MMO, over 20 years.
There are 12 Call of Duty games (including Spark Unlimited and Treyarch's PS2 games) in 11 years and 6 Halo games in 13.
A lot of people on these boards won't admit it because they're concerned with the more finer grains in the franchise, but if you look at Halo from a wider perspective, there really hasn't been that much deviation in the franchise as a whole.
Which is fine, but it's a series that's been going for 13 years. Even Zelda and Mario have managed to shake shit up at some point within a 13 year span.
Which is fine, but it's a series that's been going for 13 years. Even Zelda and Mario have managed to shake shit up at some point within a 13 year span.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
This is a perfect explanation.
Metalingus5150
Member
Halo doesn't feel the same without a Marty O'Donnell soundtrack.
Do you believe 343 will make a small arena type shooter where every player starts on even ground and has to fight for timed power weapons? No, you don't, because they won't. That sub genre of FPS is dead on consoles.
I'm not shitting on 343, I have people I consider life long friends who work there/did work there. I just don't have any faith they're going to make the traditional Halo I seek.
And Nirolak, that's not a fair assumption make considering CEA lacked its original MP component.
Poker Face
Member
So you still one of the people that still play Halo 4? You one of the 100 people who bought the DLC?
Well we could go back to the easier examples of Pokemon and Mario, who tend to go on a sales rollercoaster ride throughout the years, but still generally remain about as strong as their hardware will allow.
Mortal Kombat also came back with a vengeance after Warner picked up the studio despite years upon years of grinding out games of low quality, and Tomb Raider was annual for a while before getting reinvented and selling significantly better afterwards.
bigboss370
Member
why not? its being made by the creators of Halo, the style has alot of similarities, and the beta will be a proving ground. It can shift people away from Halo.
BattleMonkey
Member
For a game that supposedly sold 8 mil, it had a shit online population.
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