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Is Phil Spencer actively hurting the Xbox brand at this point?

Is Phil Spencer hurting the Xbox brand at this point?

  • Yes

    Votes: 256 40.8%
  • No

    Votes: 156 24.9%
  • I don't give a shit

    Votes: 128 20.4%
  • Yes but I love it!

    Votes: 87 13.9%

  • Total voters
    627

Killjoy-NL

Member
You guys are still focusing on console sales, and yet Xbox as a brand, in what it means, is bigger than ever. Game Pass and Xbox is on PC as well. I don't believe even for a second Xbox is worse now than the early Xbox One era, where the hardware was shit, the games were shit and the brand image was basically of a green turd.

Nothing changed though, except the turd being smeared across PC as well.
So, yes, I think Xbox as a brand is now stronger than it used to be. It's selling fewer consoles than the competition and it has by far the worst console exclusives of the market, but I play more Xbox branded stuff now than ever.
Add GamePass being stagnant at ~30M to bolded and it'll need quite some mental gymnastics to support the claim that the brand is strong...

That's quite a deluded point of view imo.
 
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DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Nothing changed though, except the turd being smeared across PC as well.

Add GamePass being stagnant at ~30M to bolded and it'll need quite some mental gymnastics to support the claim that the brand is strong...

That's quite a deluded point of view imo.

nah, Halo infinite was a great campaign. Forza horizon 5 is dope, Gears tactics is great, Hi fi rush - dope, Starfield - great game, forza motorsport looks like its going to be great. The fable is on the way.

Now add all the smaller, brilliant games that loads of people are enjoying - sea of thieves, grounded, pentiment and more. They release very good games that a lot of people enjoy.

They just are the easy target and the one to hate out of the three. They need to do better, and lets see what happens next year, because this ones been top tier really. Game pass has been insane this year. No complaints from me on the actual games front. I think the issue people take is with Phil and their public approach to business. They've actually had an awesome year after a stinker.
 
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Killjoy-NL

Member
nah, Halo infinite was a great campaign. Forza horizon 5 is dope, Gears tactics is great, Hi fi rush - dope, Starfield - great game, forza motorsport looks like its going to be great. The fable is on the way.

Now add all the smaller, brilliant games that loads of people are enjoying - sea of thieves, grounded, pentiment and more. They release great games that a lot of people outside of the hardcore internet sites like here enjoy.

They just are the easy target and the one to hate out of the three. They need to do better, and lets see what happens next year, because this ones been great really. Game pass has been insane this year. No complaints from me on the actual games front. I think the issue people take is with Phil and their public approach to business. They've actually had a great year after a stinker.
Good to hear you enjoy GamePass, which by itself is fine ofcourse.
But anecdotes are hardly a reflection of tthe current situation for MS.
 
I don't believe even for a second Xbox is worse now than the early Xbox One era, where the hardware was shit, the games were shit and the brand image was basically of a green turd.
Honestly nothing much has changed. The X is a nice machine, but you still have the S there. And the games ....
Peak was X360. They need to go back to what made that a good console, great games. Unfortunately Phil doesn't think this approach would work. Personally I think he's wrong.
 

FingerBang

Member
Nothing changed though, except the turd being smeared across PC as well.

Add GamePass being stagnant at ~30M to bolded and it'll need quite some mental gymnastics to support the claim that the brand is strong...

That's quite a deluded point of view imo.
Deluded for what? For believing Phil Spencer isn't ruining Xbox? For comparing it to the same brand 10 years ago full of TV, TV, TV, KINECT, SPORTS, CALL OF DUTY?

Look at my post history, I don't give a crap about brands and Xbox is my least favorite of the bunch. My Series X is basically a piece of modern art collecting dust next to my TV . I just think Xbox overall has more to offer now than it had during the late 360, early Xbox One era.

Honestly nothing much has changed. The X is a nice machine, but you still have the S there. And the games ....
Peak was X360. They need to go back to what made that a good console, great games. Unfortunately Phil doesn't think this approach would work. Personally I think he's wrong.

No doubt about it. But the sad truth is that it wasn't that they had good leadership. They were simply able to capitalize on all the issues the PS3 had. Sony really tried hard to go bankrupt that generation.
 
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BootsLoader

Banned
I've seen people beg for Jim to leave ps.
Then there are brand loyalist who will obey his every command and defend his decisions.
Sweep it under the rug. Nothing to see here.

But we're not going to dip into that any further.

Phil on the other hand.
Any news is hyperbole into bad news with a circle jerk cult hyping it.
No, while I agree with the Jim part.
Phil is bad news himself and no one is hyping it. You gotta admit that.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
I don't think Phil is ruining xbox at all. That email about 2022 and lack of games proves it. Looks like he was trying to find remedies for a shit situation. He's just got a serious up hill battle.
 

Killjoy-NL

Member
Deluded for what? For believing Phil Spencer isn't ruining Xbox? For comparing it to the same brand 10 years ago full of TV, TV, TV, KINECT, SPORTS, CALL OF DUTY?

Look at my post history, I don't give a crap about brands and Xbox is my least favorite of the bunch. My Series X is basically a piece of modern art collecting dust next to my TV . I just think Xbox overall has more to offer now than it had during the late 360, early Xbox One era.
Having more on offer doesn't mean Spencer is doing a good job or people are migrating to the Xbox-ecosystem more than last-gen, because the opposite seems to be the case.
 

BlackTron

Member
hurting the brand how? Xbox keeps adding to their arsenal under his watch.

Xbox already has significant development resources at their disposal, yet can't use those resources to compete effectively on game development. A bigger arsenal isn't helping if you keep firing it all into the sun; in fact, it's hurting by taking those resources away from doing something actually productive.
 

Ginzeen

Banned
Xbox already has significant development resources at their disposal, yet can't use those resources to compete effectively on game development. A bigger arsenal isn't helping if you keep firing it all into the sun; in fact, it's hurting by taking those resources away from doing something actually productive.
They have started to finally release games now. And yes, adding to the arsenal does help. ABK is a massive gain.
 
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I don't think Phil is ruining xbox at all. That email about 2022 and lack of games proves it. Looks like he was trying to find remedies for a shit situation. He's just got a serious up hill battle.
He's got an up hill battle because for the last decade he went down the hill in record speed ruining Xbox.
 
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BlackTron

Member
They have started to finally release games now. And yes, adding to the arsenal does help. ABK is a massive gain.

"They have started" lol. Wake me up once the accomplishments have happened, past-tense. Xbox has been in a perpetual state of "just wait" for a decade. Almost every game they do get, was already under development when they stepped in. Including Starfield.
 

Ginzeen

Banned
"They have started" lol. Wake me up once the accomplishments have happened, past-tense. Xbox has been in a perpetual state of "just wait" for a decade. Almost every game they do get, was already under development when they stepped in. Including Starfield.
seems like they mean business this decade🤷‍♂️ i like what i see over there.
 
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BlackTron

Member
seems like they mean business this decade🤷‍♂️ i like want i see over there.

Ok but given the track record, I think I'll wait until the games have already happened, past-tense.

Perhaps once MS is sitting on the biggest pool of development resources in the whole industry, the combined power will manage to add up to one half of what Nintendo accomplishes with old pinball machine parts
 

buenoblue

Member
Not having bangers after bangers is hurting them.

Phil is just a foot note in the grande scheme of things.

If infinite, redfall and starfield were all 95MC you can bet the narrative against phil would be way different.

I can't even say for sure if it is phil fault for any of that when we have past receipts:

Arkane bleeding talents and not being nowhere near their usual level of quality with deathloop, it's not like we passed from dish2 to redfall...

343 were always mid at best, after halo 4 and 5 it was already crystal clear for anyone who doesn't have a cheif helmet up their ass, infinite was just their turd try with the halo franchise.

Bethesda has always made highly overrated, broke, unoptimized 7\10 on a good day games with shitty combat and writing, starfield just continued the tradition if you ask me.
LolWTF. If all those games had been amazing people would think differently!!! NO FUCKING SHIT SHERLOCK.
 

Ginzeen

Banned
Ok but given the track record, I think I'll wait until the games have already happened, past-tense.

Perhaps once MS is sitting on the biggest pool of development resources in the whole industry, the combined power will manage to add up to one half of what Nintendo accomplishes with old pinball machine parts
You do what you want. I like what I see.
 

Ginzeen

Banned
Not sure what you are asking me to do. Pre-order non-existent games and/or unproven games? I already have a Series X, and S.
I want you to do what you're talking about. Wait until the games are released before given props
 
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BlackTron

Member
Not having bangers after bangers is hurting them.

Phil is just a foot note in the grande scheme of things.
It's Phil's job to make sure they have the bangers, he is the top dog. He can hire, fire, and restructure anything necessary to achieve this goal. When Nintendo had problems, Iwata didn't cry that it's not his fault because of his teams. He took a pay cut and rolled his sleeves up. Iwata was no footnote, he took direct responsibility for the performance of the company because he knew that responsibility belonged to him.
If infinite, redfall and starfield were all 95MC you can bet the narrative against phil would be way different.

I can't even say for sure if it is phil fault for any of that when we have past receipts:

Arkane bleeding talents and not being nowhere near their usual level of quality with deathloop, it's not like we passed from dish2 to redfall...

343 were always mid at best, after halo 4 and 5 it was already crystal clear for anyone who doesn't have a cheif helmet up their ass, infinite was just their turd try with the halo franchise.
343, a studio completely formed, owned, hired and intended by MS to make Halo games. But it's not MS's fault they suck, it's just that 343 sucks. This is nonsensical. In fact, the more past evidence there is of 343s failures, the more ridiculous it is that they would allow it to continue without fixing the problem. Newsflash, 343 is simply Microsoft and Phil has complete jurisdiction to roll heads over there if he needs to. And he needed to after MCC, which itself should never have happened.

Bethesda has always made highly overrated, broke, unoptimized 7\10 on a good day games with shitty combat and writing, starfield just continued the tradition if you ask me.

At least with BGS, they were already making a game when MS stepped in. This random flailing is how they sometimes get good games. What excuse is there for 343?
 

GymWolf

Member
It's Phil's job to make sure they have the bangers, he is the top dog. He can hire, fire, and restructure anything necessary to achieve this goal. When Nintendo had problems, Iwata didn't cry that it's not his fault because of his teams. He took a pay cut and rolled his sleeves up. Iwata was no footnote, he took direct responsibility for the performance of the company because he knew that responsibility belonged to him.

343, a studio completely formed, owned, hired and intended by MS to make Halo games. But it's not MS's fault they suck, it's just that 343 sucks. This is nonsensical. In fact, the more past evidence there is of 343s failures, the more ridiculous it is that they would allow it to continue without fixing the problem. Newsflash, 343 is simply Microsoft and Phil has complete jurisdiction to roll heads over there if he needs to. And he needed to after MCC, which itself should never have happened.



At least with BGS, they were already making a game when MS stepped in. This random flailing is how they sometimes get good games. What excuse is there for 343?
When days gone had shitty MC nobody faulted sony for that, they were all saying that bend wasn't as good as other sony first parties.

I'm always gonna give the majority of fault to the devs who make the game.

The only exception is when they make crossgen games instead of nextgen games, in that case, the fault is fully on the ceo.

Phil maybe is shit at directing his teams but they ultimately are the people who make the games.

Do you think that actually good studios like santa monica or ND need jimbo to tell them how to work? Cmon.
 
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Ginzeen

Banned
When days gone had shitty MC nobody faulted sony for that, they were all saying that bend wasn't as good as other first part sony.

I'm always gonna give the majority of fault to the devs who make the game.

Phil maybe is shit at directing his teams but they ultimately are the people who make the games.

Do you think that actually good studios like santa monica or ND need jimbo to tell them how to work? Cmon.
I see what you're saying, But even though their not responsible for making the games, they get blamed for the bad or get praised for the good because their in charge of the company.
 
You guys are still focusing on console sales, and yet Xbox as a brand, in what it means, is bigger than ever. Game Pass and Xbox is on PC as well. I don't believe even for a second Xbox is worse now than the early Xbox One era, where the hardware was shit, the games were shit and the brand image was basically of a green turd.

So, yes, I think Xbox as a brand is now stronger than it used to be. It's selling fewer consoles than the competition and it has by far the worst console exclusives of the market, but I play more Xbox branded stuff now than ever.

Xbox has meant console for 20 years just like Playstation.

GamePass has nothing to do with Xbox, you can play on PC and on a damn smartphone if you want...

So it's basically "Microsoft GamePass" with an Xbox tag
 

BlackTron

Member
When days gone had shitty MC nobody faulted sony for that, they were all saying that bend wasn't as good as other first part sony.

I'm always gonna give the majority of fault to the devs who make the game.

Phil maybe is shit at directing his teams but they ultimately are the people who make the games.

Do you think that actually good studios like santa monica or ND need jimbo to tell them how to work? Cmon.

If Days Gone was about an important classic Sony mascot character, and it got a sequel that was even worse received, then yes, people would be wondering what the hell is wrong with Sony management to let this happen.

If you have a bad team, you need to change the team. Or...be a nice guy, continue letting your teams wallow in mediocrity, and buy the competition.
 

skit_data

Member
7zw914.jpg
Haha, I first read the "to meee" part with a scream of scream of frustration-voice but it reads way funnier if imagined being sung a la Bohemian Rhapsody
 

GymWolf

Member
If Days Gone was about an important classic Sony mascot character, and it got a sequel that was even worse received, then yes, people would be wondering what the hell is wrong with Sony management to let this happen.

If you have a bad team, you need to change the team. Or...be a nice guy, continue letting your teams wallow in mediocrity, and buy the competition.
Our debate apart, i think days gone sold enough and had enough fans to greenlight a sequel without much fuss between real players (so no woke journalists or console warriors).

I get what you say and i would have told 343 (and coalition) to fuck off after halo 4 or 5 but maybe they didn't had any other studio to handle such a big brand? or there was just not enough talents around to hire?
 

FingerBang

Member
Having more on offer doesn't mean Spencer is doing a good job or people are migrating to the Xbox-ecosystem more than last-gen, because the opposite seems to be the case.
I honestly think Spencer is doing the best he can do given he's just a MS corpo guy and Xbox is never going to be great since their direction comes from a company that doesn't have gaming in its DNA.

Xbox has meant console for 20 years just like Playstation.

GamePass has nothing to do with Xbox, you can play on PC and on a damn smartphone if you want...

So it's basically "Microsoft GamePass" with an Xbox tag
That's why I'm not talking about Xbox as a console but as a brand. As a console it's never been as profitable or as successful as the competition, except for the 360 era.
They have managed to outsell Nintendo for 2 gens out of 4 though (vs Gamecube and vs Wii U)
 

BlackTron

Member
Our debate apart, i think days gone sold enough and had enough fans to greenlight a sequel without much fuss between real players (so no woke journalists or console warriors).

I get what you say and i would have told 343 (and coalition) to fuck off after halo 4 or 5 but maybe they didn't had any other studio to handle such a big brand? or there was just not enough talents around to hire?

That's the thing about telling 343 to "fuck off", their sole purpose of existence is to make Halo games. It's literally them going "OK, we'll do it ourselves". MS just sucks at leading game development. Did you notice that heads began rolling at 343 after Halo Infinite and the command structure began changing? That this didn't happen a decade ago, and we had to sit through multiple botched Halo projects, falls directly on Phil's shoulders. It was obvious to everyone on a gaming forum, but not him.

When other companies make a mistake, they learn from it and get more experience. Xbox insisted on letting their biggest IP get run into the ground over a decade before finally challenging it. And I think the reason, is that Phil just never really gave a shit. He never felt that individual good games make much difference in his grand Gamepass scheme. Who needs to carefully make good games when the long game is to just own everything and not give anyone a choice?

Iwata would make heads roll to make sure the games are on point. Phil has bigger plans. He said it himself. Great games won't sell consoles anyway.
 
An uphill battle that he largely created. He had been in charge for over 10 years at that point.

C'mon man....

People here still blame Don Mattrick after 10 years and Spencer was the second in command even then...

He launched 4 consoles in 4 years, and now he's telling us that console sales don't matter...

Xbox One X was discontinued 2 and a half years after he launched it as the greatest console ever because of 6 teraflops

Then he told people that the 4 TF Series S was a better machine... LOL

Then 18 months without launching a single AAA game just to give us... Redfall
 
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JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Man this place hates Xbox
Yes, but Xbox has largely earned it. If I trusted MS to properly manage these studios and they had a history of doing so I would absolutely 100% be singing their praises. But the fact of the matter is that they have totally shit the bed as far as studio management. Phil has been in charge of Xbox for 10 years and he hasn't come remotely close to fixing this. There is no reason why Xbox shouldn't have 1-2 system selling exclusives being released each year by now. None. That falls on shitty leadership. Buying a publisher for $7.5 Billion and securing one exclusive from a legendary studio doesn't change that. I hope I am wrong and that this is the start of something good. I really do. Sony badly needs the competition. But the same people who ran Xbox box into the ground: Phil Spencer, Matt Booty, Aaron Greenberg are still there and I have yet to see a company with shitty management all of the sudden become competent.

Has Phil done some good things? Yes, he has.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
People here still blame Don Mattrick after 10 years and Spencer was the second in command even then...

He launched 4 consoles in 4 years, and now he's telling us that console sales don't matter...

Xbox One X was discontinued 2 and a half years after he launched it as the greatest console ever because of 6 teraflops

Then he told people that the 4 TF Series S was a better machine... LOL
Say what you want about Don Mattrick, but his Xbox One had games early on such as Dead Rising 3, Ryse and Killer Instinct. Were those masterpieces? No, but they were fun at times.
 

Killjoy-NL

Member
Phil has bigger plans. He said it himself. Great games won't sell consoles anyway.
Tbf this is not the proper context.

When he said that, he was talking about the current situation for Xbox and that while people on forums keep saying that they just need to release games to regain marketshare, it wouldn't make a difference anymore at this point.
Something drastic has to happen and realistically, there is no recovering anymore.

People should watch and read some of his interviews again.
 
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Pelta88

Member
You guys are still focusing on console sales, and yet Xbox as a brand, in what it means, is bigger than ever. Game Pass and Xbox is on PC as well. I don't believe even for a second Xbox is worse now than the early Xbox One era, where the hardware was shit, the games were shit and the brand image was basically of a green turd.

So, yes, I think Xbox as a brand is now stronger than it used to be. It's selling fewer consoles than the competition and it has by far the worst console exclusives of the market, but I play more Xbox branded stuff now than ever.

1. Gamepass is a non factor according to Microsoft and every other Publisher. It's value destructive.

2. What you believe XBOX is selling is irrelevant. It is selling worse than the debacle that is XB1.

Dismissing the reality of XBOX in favour of your own narrative is an issue you need to confront.
 

Sethbacca

Member
I know the "SonyGAF" reputation but honestly, it appears to me most people give Xbox a fair shake, in fact a higher % of people here probably have a Xbox console than the general public/gaming audience.

The beating they are taking is deserved IMO
I mean, I'll admit I lean Sony, my main gripe is that if MS is going to gobble up half of the beloved IPs of the entire industry I just want to know that they're actually going to do something with it rather than letting everything languish in mediocrity. I had a Series S and got rid of it, but I'd still like an excuse to play Gamepass on my PC and as such I'd like to see them succeed in making some decent games.
 
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