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Is Phil Spencer actively hurting the Xbox brand at this point?
- Thread starter buenoblue
- Start date
BlackTron
Member
Even if you pay no attention to Xbox at all you would now due to their desire to take your brand away from you. Since they can't accomplish anything but throwing money
Sethbacca
Member
Yeah, essentially, like if you're going to own one of my favorite IPs in Fallout, can you at least not fucking suck at it?
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
SongGaf?Well this is mostly SongGAF, so it’s no real surprise.
♪Gaf! I like it!
lostinblue
Banned
He might be part of the problem, that said, it seems like Microsoft is full of sycophants and that might have warped him further.
Long story short, I don't see how they have someone to replace him with. Also he clearly has a close relation with Nadella, I'm not sure a more down to earth guy could have made Microsoft spend the way he made them spend in the last few years and in that sense he was crucial.
I mainly think, aside from him talking too much, that he's an acquisition guy and honestly quite good at it. He's just bad at managing what he acquires because he's not focusing on that. There's place for acquisition guys in any company, but he shouldn't be sole CEO at this point, spread too thin, and too optimist.
Long story short, I don't see how they have someone to replace him with. Also he clearly has a close relation with Nadella, I'm not sure a more down to earth guy could have made Microsoft spend the way he made them spend in the last few years and in that sense he was crucial.
I mainly think, aside from him talking too much, that he's an acquisition guy and honestly quite good at it. He's just bad at managing what he acquires because he's not focusing on that. There's place for acquisition guys in any company, but he shouldn't be sole CEO at this point, spread too thin, and too optimist.
graywolf323
Member
FingerBang
Member
1) Never mentioned Game Pass or value
2) I didn't make up any sales number
I don't have a narrative, I expressed an opinion.
tryDEATH
Member
They should and did significantly compared to their Xbox One launch. MS/Phil know they need to get even better and are actively pursuing that objective with the ABK acquisition being a clear indicator that will only further improve GamePass. Acting like he has been ineffective is just people being disingenuous because they don't like MS/Xbox not his actual record at improving Xbox globally. For a long time one of Xbox's criticisms have been the lack of support from the Japanese market, which under Phil has become the best it ever has been for Xbox from getting launch exclusives into GamePass that was created under him to getting whole collections that were never released on Xbox period thanks to the support of backwards compatability another one of his decesion that were positively received.
Just because Phil isn't liked on this forum and people think posting his private emails which are tame at best they think they're some how exposing him that he's some evil dude. He has aspirations and has clearly made moves to improve Xbox and its ecosystem. Being willfully ignorant is a choice you can make, but trying to force others to think like Xbox's situation right now is bad is laughable as it is only going up from this point on. You could maybe blame his for how long it has taken, but that is a industry wide problem due to Covid, something he had no control over.
Pelta88
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
No, trying to consolidate and bulldoze (monopolize) the industry into their favor, is.
Nah, just bullshit artists and their overly zealous fanatics. We hate the overly zealous Sony fans too, considering mods take them out in the same clip. There's just no cult of personality constantly in the airwaves for Sony.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You're not worth the effort, so I just phone it in with you.
The fact that the majority of the vote is yes is just insane to me.
-Best gaming service available (Gamepass)
-Best BC program
-Biggest investment allocated to building their 1st party studios
-Most transparent leader of the big 3. (Doesn’t just always say PR scripted rhetoric.)
-Actually a gamer
-Critical of his own companies flaws and decisions
-Listens and reacts to criticism
All of this is done under his leadership.
-Best gaming service available (Gamepass)
-Best BC program
-Biggest investment allocated to building their 1st party studios
-Most transparent leader of the big 3. (Doesn’t just always say PR scripted rhetoric.)
-Actually a gamer
-Critical of his own companies flaws and decisions
-Listens and reacts to criticism
All of this is done under his leadership.
FingerBang
Member
The part where I said I THINK Xbox as a brand is stronger now thanks to Phil and never said it's selling more than ever or offers great value?
I don't think Phil Spencer is hurting the brand. I don't think anyone can do much to save it as a brand unless MS decides to sell it.
Negotiator101
Member
nowhat
Member
No, he says all kinds of kumbaya shit publicly that no one should take at face value (see all the leaked emails lately for a recent example). I'm not sure that's exactly transparent.
A t-shirt doesn't make a gamer.
graywolf323
Member
I want some of whatever you’re smoking that you seriously posted this
Pelta88
Member
When we're talking about established facts, what you think does not matter.
The brand is weaker outside the US and within the US. That's an actual fact . A fact laid out by Microsoft themselves in legally binding submissions to regulators and on the stand during court proceedings. A fact supported by Microsoft's internal deliberations and backed, publicly, by sales data. I can think 1+1 = 3. The actual fact is...
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Accurate!
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Does Phil spender look bad? Yes. But I can’t blame the guy, what are you going to do bring back Bill Gates? Cmon.
FingerBang
Member
What do you think brand mean?
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Aren't you shifting goalposts now?
The OP asks "Is Phil Spencer hurting the XBox brand?"
Me: No. XBox is, by far, in the strongest state it's ever been in thanks to the checks cut by Phil Spencer.
I'm a Jim Ryan guy, but if you're an XBox fan, Phil Spencer is the Alpha and the Omega for team green.
buenoblue
Member
"We heard you guys, next year is gonna be the biggest in Xbox history" where have I heard this beforeI’ll give Ol’ Phil to the end of 2024. If things haven’t significantly gotten better by then than maybe it would be better to bring someone else in.
So says this Xbox guy.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
He's bought studios but what major games has he delivered?
In the 10 yrs he's been in his position he's shat Xbox first-party game studios and IP down the toilet and only recently has he had to buy up existing studios to compensate. But these studios aren't making "new" games. Their games would have been available for Xbox anyway. So from an Xbox fan perspective, he hasn't brought anything new to the platform despite buying up studios. He's only constrained access to multiplatform content from completing consoles.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
People keep bringing up the fact that he's been in his position for 10 years when it's irrelevant.
He just bought a megaton load of studios.
Games now take 6+ years to make.
If you thought everything was going to turn around overnight, you're a casual gamer. Aspire to be better than a casual. Attempt to ascend and become hardcore.
Phil Spencer unlocked the mythical war chest that middle school versions of us whispered about. He has become a Greek God. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he's a central antagonist in the next God of War.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
No. Honestly, silly question.
This will all blow over. Every company talks about stuff like this internally, it’s just we don’t ever know about it. I don’t really see the controversy or the big deal, here.
Nothing is official until a company formally announces it publicly. So I’m not really understanding the big deal being made about a hypothetical/ internal pseudo plan of a Pro refresh. It’s entirely possible that idea never went anywhere. Hence why it was internal and as far as we know it’s not even a real machine planned to be made commercially available.
This will all blow over. Every company talks about stuff like this internally, it’s just we don’t ever know about it. I don’t really see the controversy or the big deal, here.
Nothing is official until a company formally announces it publicly. So I’m not really understanding the big deal being made about a hypothetical/ internal pseudo plan of a Pro refresh. It’s entirely possible that idea never went anywhere. Hence why it was internal and as far as we know it’s not even a real machine planned to be made commercially available.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
This is how you side-step the entire main thread of my argument.
Buying studios does not create new FP Xbox games. It only takes existing in-dev multiplatform games (that Xbox gamers would have had anyway) and removes them from PlayStation.
So your argument justifying the achievements of Phil Spencer after 10 yrs as head of Xbox, is that he's fucked up Halo, shat Xbox Game Studios down the crapper, bought studios to remove games from PS and started GamePass... and that's supposed to equate to Xbox being in its best position ever as a platform.... despite console sales being the worst they've ever been and GP sub growth all but dead...?
Lol, wow! Ok.
Krappadizzle
Member
Man, you aren't kidding. I remember picking up my PS3 real close to launch and really liking MotorStorm but then that thing just collected dust until a few good exclusives would come out. The one upside to how badly Sony had managed the first few years of PS3's launch was that my PS3 got so little actual use, it never died. I still have it. I'm 92% sure it still worked the last time I checked before I put it away 10+ years ago. 360 was on such a streak a few years into the launch and it's hardware and what it offered with Xbox Live took a long time for Sony to respond.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
It doesn't matter how he's improved the brand. He has. That's all that matters. He's not supposed to care about the feelings of PlayStation fanboys. He's supposed to grow the fanbase of his company and he's doing that...exceptionally well.
Also, you're thinking under the old paradigm. Series X+S are selling better than the first generation XBox and the third generation XBox. Phil Spencer knows that paradigm is dying so he's growing the brand using PC + Cloud. It's time you start thinking under the new paradigm.
Btw, you guys have a few more months of this fake Phil Spencer concern as Forza Motorsport is about to come out and 2024 looks great for the XBox brand. Get your digs in before the door closes I suppose.
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RCU005
Member
I’ve been saying this for years! His goal is to constraint access from competition. This has been their goal since it’s even the very first reason they made the 360.
They don’t care about making anything new, they just want to get the content so the others don’t. You can see documentaries about Xbox and Xbox 360 where they say it explicitly.
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RickMasters
Member
In other words…. The same old and very typical and usual gamer circles? No suprise there. You have to really follow this stuff and keep check of names to be even discussing it….. out of the hundreds of millions of gamers around the world….. how many of them are actually discussing this? How many of them are on Twitter screaming outrage? Versus who is?….It’s not like these guys have Elon musk levels of pop culture revelevence. I got a lot of friends who have no idea who any of these people are. It’s just convo fodder among hardcore gamers. The industry is bigger than hardcore gamers and their points of views. To everybody else…. It’s just business between big companies who they can’t name the execs like we can and….. there are more people talking about cardi B on Twitter. than what Phil said in a year old email that was supposed to be confidential.. Popular culture don’t care. It’s just silicon valley billionaire shit to them.
Big corporation has aggressive plans….. I’m trying to be as shocked and disgusted as everybody else on here but honestly I just can’t feel that way about a multi billion solar industry. Furthermore…. I don’t know they guy, exactly what challenges he faces in his job so I won’t blame him for where Xbox is, I blame MS higher ups as I have done since the tail end of the X360. That’s where I stand in that. But all I hear is “Phil, Phil, Phil”….. it’s funny because so many want to see Xbox fail…. If that be the case just be quite and smug and let him ruin it and maybe Xbox will have to sell everything and PS fans can get Bethesda games again….. because hey…. Let’s be honest we will never hear the end of that either on forums and Twitter related circles, either. It’s all Phil fault.
I’ve never in all my years of gaming ever known an exec to have his every word analysed like people do with phil….. is it a cult of phil or a phil hate group? You tell me…..
But maybe I don’t see it so much on my Twitter because I mostly follow my music, fashion and sports interests in there. So I wouldn’t see all the ‘outrage’ tweets
buenoblue
Member
Nothing about new great games though
RickMasters
Member
To be fair I think Sony turned their fortunes around perfectly. They primed themselves perfectly for PS4 and rebuilt goodwill within one generation. But I think their issue was more straight forward.
With Xbox, I think they got too cocky in the second half of the x360 era and that led to and Xbox one that was in the middle of the whole house shifting. Mattric out… Spencer in….. ballmer probably had a different view on Xbox that probably never helped them during that era but nadella I think has a more positive outlook. The changes leadership and them figuring out where and they went wrong deffo hurt Xbox.
I say this as an Xbox owner, it was pretty horrible to watch. I do feel like they are doing better.
People may disagree with them buying stuff but I would be a hypocrite if I said I wouldn’t do the same.
Bolster your current studios…Buy new studios….. make all that shit exclude and drive people to my service. It’s exactly what I would do. And If be very agressive with it. But I would also get that steady rotation of AAA and AA in order. I’d make sure the quality is there. I’d lock up some third party deals…. Pay to have some games that are not on Xbox put on there. From old Japanese arcade games like you get on switch right up to some big 3p new IPs that show promise as a timed exclusive and gamepass draw. I would give small devs larger budgets and resources to make exclusives and see what teams have that chemistry with my company and platform. Build their fan bases for their games with them, actively through marketing and dashboard ad placement. Make the devs mini celebs in their own right. That’s just how I would run Xbox though.
FingerBang
Member
Yeah, the first half of that gen was dominated by MS. It forced Sony to change strategy and start focusing on their first and second party output since the third party support was basically gone. And boy, did that pay in the long run.
Killer8
Member
The cracks may be starting to show so perhaps within a few years he'll be out, particularly when he talks in the leaked emails about how much they have riding on the growth of Game Pass and cloud services. I just hope this gamble doesn't take the entire Xbox brand with it when these services inevitably fail to reach their subscriber targets.
But let's not forget the sorry state that Xbox was in in 2014 when Phil inherited the reigns. There was a time when if you talked about MS first party, the response would be "what MS first party?" For many many years Xbox was just the Halo, Gears and Forza box, and a couple of those franchises were beginning to fray at the edges. Halo lost Bungie and the replacement 343 left a lot to be desired, while Gears was in limbo with Epic not knowing what to do with the IP. MS also lost Peter Molyneux from Lionhead (and in a domino effect, the whole studio a few years later) after he went full retard.
Xbox One's launch had been an unmitigated disaster around this time as well. "TV, TV, TV", dropping the ball in terms of the price to performance ratio compared to the rival PS4, the no used games fiasco, the "it's called Xbox 360" always online snafu - all of this handed the generation to Sony before it even began, and that was before we even considered the games lineup.
Since early 2014, MS has had to effectively rebuild its entire brand which was decimated by Xbox One (although I would posit that it was already in decline during the Kinect era of Xbox 360). That is no easy task. It involved not just aggressive growth via acquisitions but also organic growth via new studios like The Coalition and The Initiative. That's not to say there aren't issues with their game output, which even Phil admits is lacking in the leaked emails, but flawed first party calendar positioning in 2023 is a hell of a lot better than having basically no first party in 2014. At least now they actually have content to delay.
That's also not to say I don't worry about the all digital future that the industry is heading towards and which Phil is adamant to spearhead. Far from "adorably all digital", it is going to be morbidly fascinating to see which of the big two moves first in this game of chicken that is very reminiscent of Xbox One vs PS4 in 2013. If I can't continue to use my discs for backwards compatibility - which was another great thing that Xbox under Phil deserves some credit for - then Series X will be my last Xbox.
The other 'disturbing' or 'egomaniac' stuff in the emails about wanting to buy Nintendo is just noise - it's shit talking in an email chain, the "locker room talk" of gaming, that's not worth investing more than 5 seconds of thought into... I also would not be surprised if he has a GAF account, as it would fit right in here.
But let's not forget the sorry state that Xbox was in in 2014 when Phil inherited the reigns. There was a time when if you talked about MS first party, the response would be "what MS first party?" For many many years Xbox was just the Halo, Gears and Forza box, and a couple of those franchises were beginning to fray at the edges. Halo lost Bungie and the replacement 343 left a lot to be desired, while Gears was in limbo with Epic not knowing what to do with the IP. MS also lost Peter Molyneux from Lionhead (and in a domino effect, the whole studio a few years later) after he went full retard.
Xbox One's launch had been an unmitigated disaster around this time as well. "TV, TV, TV", dropping the ball in terms of the price to performance ratio compared to the rival PS4, the no used games fiasco, the "it's called Xbox 360" always online snafu - all of this handed the generation to Sony before it even began, and that was before we even considered the games lineup.
Since early 2014, MS has had to effectively rebuild its entire brand which was decimated by Xbox One (although I would posit that it was already in decline during the Kinect era of Xbox 360). That is no easy task. It involved not just aggressive growth via acquisitions but also organic growth via new studios like The Coalition and The Initiative. That's not to say there aren't issues with their game output, which even Phil admits is lacking in the leaked emails, but flawed first party calendar positioning in 2023 is a hell of a lot better than having basically no first party in 2014. At least now they actually have content to delay.
That's also not to say I don't worry about the all digital future that the industry is heading towards and which Phil is adamant to spearhead. Far from "adorably all digital", it is going to be morbidly fascinating to see which of the big two moves first in this game of chicken that is very reminiscent of Xbox One vs PS4 in 2013. If I can't continue to use my discs for backwards compatibility - which was another great thing that Xbox under Phil deserves some credit for - then Series X will be my last Xbox.
The other 'disturbing' or 'egomaniac' stuff in the emails about wanting to buy Nintendo is just noise - it's shit talking in an email chain, the "locker room talk" of gaming, that's not worth investing more than 5 seconds of thought into... I also would not be surprised if he has a GAF account, as it would fit right in here.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Yeah, the first day MS had Bethesda they should have farmed out to a new studio a Fallout 3 and New Vegas remaster. Yes, I know all the talk about new games, but those would have been low risk projects that would have gone well on Gamepass.
Sethbacca
Member
Or remakes of Fallout 1 & 2 with new graphics and a modern interface to bring those games to people that haven't played them, I'm imagining this would be relatively easy/cheap with MS resources. Or they could go all in and bring 1 & 2 into the same style as 3/NV/4 but that would obviously be a massive undertaking, but an easy PR victory.
I don't see how anyone can read these leaks and not come to the conclusion that PS is just not right for this position. Look at all the "criticisms" that were leveled at him based on "sources" and the like - things regarding mismanaged (or completely hands off approach to) studios, unrealistic timeliness, no brand focus. All of that is reflected in these email leaks; that one about him crowing to his bosses after the PS5 reveal is just. . .breathtaking and shows a person who does not understand what the market is looking for.
. . .like the dude is charming and a good FACE for the company and knows how to tell fans what they want to hear, but beyond that - yeah.
. . .like the dude is charming and a good FACE for the company and knows how to tell fans what they want to hear, but beyond that - yeah.
Isa
Member
I agree with quite a lot of that, but the bolded is key to me. Granted people will always find something to nitpick about, but the biggest flaw for me is or was the lack of Japanese/Asian game support. Over these past several years things have gotten so much better its almost surreal to think about. Sony's actions(censorship related) led me to mainly buy games on Switch and Xbox out of protest, or PC when relevant. So having more options for me is great, while now that my core gaming circle opted for Xbox this gen means I still get to play there with them and expose them to titles they normally wouldn't have ever seen.
I know it get's hate for not having the full gamut of support seen on other platforms as well as being late more often than not, but again they are improving tenfold which to my house(gf is a Jrpg & Vn fiend) is important. I may agree with all of their decisions and business practices and would definitely run things differently but if things get to bad either way I'd go Nintendo and PC only in the future, and keep collecting for prior gens.
twilo99
Member
The hate for him is not rooted in reality, it stems from an emotional place, so the haters actually need understanding and compassion to guide them through this dark time…
devilNprada
Member
If you mean loudest and most unprofessional then yeah.
Gamer? I wish that rich, good looking, full hair headed, chick getting, frat boy would quit trying to pretend he's me!
It's jealousy... Yeah! I am jealous of his life, so maybe he should quit being such a fucking douche!
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
There are only two valid critiques of Phil Spencer:
1. He built his Death Star to eradicate the ~2014 era market/competition. There's enough evidence today to suggest the target may have shifted under their feet. IE: The Live Service era has arrived. This may lead to a ton of closures over the next 10 years that they didn't anticipate.
2. His "I wear gaming T shirts and listen to gaming podcasts" persona was incredibly transparent. The "I'm one of you guys" schtick was lame from the start. Phil Spencer and Jim Ryan are the same person. Both ambitious, cunning, with crazy work ethics. Jim Ryan is just more authentic as a personality.
Outside of that, it's just typical fanboy mudslinging.
1. He built his Death Star to eradicate the ~2014 era market/competition. There's enough evidence today to suggest the target may have shifted under their feet. IE: The Live Service era has arrived. This may lead to a ton of closures over the next 10 years that they didn't anticipate.
2. His "I wear gaming T shirts and listen to gaming podcasts" persona was incredibly transparent. The "I'm one of you guys" schtick was lame from the start. Phil Spencer and Jim Ryan are the same person. Both ambitious, cunning, with crazy work ethics. Jim Ryan is just more authentic as a personality.
Outside of that, it's just typical fanboy mudslinging.
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lostinblue
Banned
I think the Xbox brand will be fine even if it stays Microsoft forever.
You don't have to win against Sony or Nintendo, you have to be profitable and find your space. The kicker here is that Microsoft had that at some point with the X360, and lost it.
They'd love to be market leaders but I think Microsoft is the worst brand for that to happen, I think most people realize that as well. They need to negate that with an open approach, like nvme hdd's and keeping things as standard as possible. They make a good job on the controllers, and on the dev mode thing... shit job everywhere else. The bad negates the good in this case.
It also appears to me that going for activision has made things worst for them as it's a very divisive topic, and these leaks haven't made things better. Phil Spencer didn't have a bad image, now he does have a bit. Not to say that it changes anything or that he should resign.
The issue with Xbox stems from him as well, but is mainly down to mismanagement of their IP/companies. He says he'd love to buy Nintendo, the issue is not that (albeit scary) it's what they did with other purchases they did, selling to Microsoft is not a good deal if brand longevity is the objective. In fact I'd say conglomerates are not good at that. Disney has been good at fucking their newly acquired IP as well, Netflix is both bad at building IP and good at canceling it. Microsoft is similarly as mid.
The takeaway is that they're good in everything they're not mid at. main Forza is great, flight simulator is great. They have to stop trying to make games for everyone.
Fable seems great because it doesn't appeal to at least half their userbase. Starfield is also to be commended. They just need more of it.
Forza Horizon is mid. But needed as an entry point/gateway drug for kids.
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