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[CRON]

Games have always been political. That doesn't mean every game is political, but politics in games isn't a new trend. FPS games, for example, you had all these WW2 games where youre killing nazis, and recently its games set in the middle east where you bomb and kill muslims, all to prop up and maintain the military industrial complex and the establishments love for war and love of sending the poor to go die in foreign lands.

We're quite past "games set in the middle east where you bomb and kill muslims", and even then, the antagonists in those games were largely based on Russians. A majority of FPS' these days are sci-fi themed, or revisit older periods in history.

 

[MrRogers]

Japanese and eastern european developers are by and large conservative at times, apolitical most of the time and politically incorrect all the time, this triggers the reeers, as they have no influence over those companies like they have over the absolutely SJW controlled, North American located, Naughty dog and bioware. As well as other companies stateside

 

[TimFL]

You're probably best reading through the like 4/5 threads it caused to be honest. They became excessive. To sum up no one was really bothered about Ellie's sexuality. I don't know what the attach rate for the DLC was, but even if you didn't get the DLC I find it hard to believe that anyone wouldn't have stumbled across the information anyway as it's freely talked about now.

Basically it boiled down to the most important part of that whole trailer was to just show 'Hey, a lesbian kiss', after establishing that the other girl had a boyfriend anyway and there was very little context for it. It just seemed gratuitous to get cheap acclaim in what was a poorly contrived trailer. Basically running a flag up the pole to be saluted. And then when people were critical of this they got labelled all kinds of stuff like misogynist, sexist, anti feminism, homophobic etc. The usual stuff.

People are offended by the way the material and context is being handled by people clearly not subtle or deft enough to display it in a natural way. This doesn't just apply to TLoU2 though.

It makes me uncomfortable yeah, because the lesbian kiss is the big front and center moment of that trailer, it's so in your face about it.

Ellie was revealed as gay in Left Behind, which I played when it came out and it didn't bother me, but it's a brief moment and the DLC was not SOLD on that moment, with TLoU2 you know just by virtue of the context of it being the present day that's it virtue signaling, 5 years ago it might have been about "this is an interesting story direction" but today it's "LOL SUCK IT DOWN YOU HOMOPHOBIC BIGOTS!"

This comic is a perfect example of that attitude, literally flipping us off for daring to be the least bit shocked or uncomfortable about it, if people are gonna have a bad attitude like that I'll have a bad attitude right back.

I don't know, I wasn't offended by it. I was a bit shocked because my first thought was "did they just stealth reveal that she is no longer infectious anymore?" but in no way was I offended by Ellie having a crush on the other girl or her kissing her. It makes for a good motivation (I assume the girl gets killed or kidnapped?) and it was destined to happen sooner or later anyways with the lesbian reveal: one can only go so long as single, it's natural to strive for love and Ellie being the loner is probably dying inside to have someone by her side (I guess shes also a young adult now, 18-20? Hormones and all).
But to each their own.

 

[mckmas8808]

This is going to be a controversial thread to some here, my intention is not to decry Progressive politics, but to make a statement about a influential game developer

They tend to avoid liberal politics it seems

there games tend to be very masculine, there games tend to be exploring the underbelly of Americana

this isn't to say that Rockstar is alt right or a conservative company, they obviously aren't (Sam Houser was a big donor to Obama) but they tend to avoid that trend of inserting really leftist political ideals in their games unlike Naughty Dog or Bioware

You can talk about the satire of GTA (which attacks both left and right American politics) but Rockstar has never been a "political" developer. Even Ubisoft is a more political developer than Rockstar

What exactly do you consider "leftist political ideals"? How are their games more masculine?

 

[Harlock]

Is hard to say, because everything will be turn in clickbait articles. If in GTA6 we get a female playable character, Polygon/Kotaku/Waypoint will write "men babies get angry because GTA6 bla bla...". And a week later another article "GTA6 still not get women right bla bla bla...".

 

[Mister Apoc]

What exactly do you consider "leftist political ideals"? How are their games more masculine?

because they often focus on highly masculine characters

 

[MayauMiao]

I hope Rockstar don't hold back with RDR II. They had strong women characters like Bonnie in RDR and although she's an independent type of woman she is realistically portrayed to still be vulnerable by bad men of the time. There was also that Mexican woman who was fighting for her people (I think) but ends up getting killed anyway due to some unfortunate event. No Mary Sue type of woman at all.

 

[MayauMiao]

Knowing Rockstar, they will screw both side, the far left and right. But our so called progressive journalists will call it an attack on gender/race.

 

[Ariesfirebomb]

I don't know, I wasn't offended by it. I was a bit shocked because my first thought was "did they just stealth reveal that she is no longer infectious anymore?" but in no way was I offended by Ellie having a crush on the other girl or her kissing her. It makes for a good motivation (I assume the girl gets killed or kidnapped?) and it was destined to happen sooner or later anyways with the lesbian reveal: one can only go so long as single, it's natural to strive for love and Ellie being the loner is probably dying inside to have someone by her side (I guess shes also a young adult now, 18-20? Hormones and all).
But to each their own.

THIS! It's amazing tbh. The main argument from people who complain about stuff like this is that they don't want some overtly stereotypical character being shoved down their throats. Ellie isn't stereotypical and the roles could have easily been swapped with a male with Ellie and the scene would play out the exact same. IDK what people really expect when it comes to LGBT people but it boggles my mind that they would think we do anything differently than hetero counterparts.

Now for the question at hand. Rockstar has always dragged both sides mercilessly. Thats why they are probably my favorite game company. For me, true art is being able to poke fun of yourself and others. It's why despite what people may think about the GTA series gameplay wise, that shit is gold when it comes to writing.

 

[bufkus]

Wait so adding women, minorities, and LGBT into games is now "leftist politics"? Are you a white supremacist?

 

[Chiggs]

Wait so adding women, minorities, and LGBT into games is now "leftist politics"? Are you a white supremacist?

Yeah, I just personally don’t understand the frustration. Nothing wrong with diversity; in fact, there is everything right with it. The only issues I see are writers developing lackluster angles for these people, giving the impression they were just shoehorned in so someone could mark off a checkbox on some misguided list. See Mass Effect Andromeda.

Incorporate diversity into games, by god...but make it authentic.

Gears of War 4, a game that I really like, has some terribly clunky dialogue for its female character. Early on in the first mission, and possibly in other missions, she starts speaking about how it’s not her purpose in life to have babies. I groaned because it seemingly came out of nowhere and struck me as a very weird thing to say moments after surviving a firefight with attack robots.

I swear, if writers and other creative types were to do their jobs correctly, this wouldn’t even be an issue (and The Last Jedi would have done much better at the box office).

 

[Phoenix RISING]

ITT: R* has always already been progressive, which is why the content appears immune to "progressive politics."

In the first game, after going on a murderous crime spree, you go to a church to save your game. "Jesus Saves"

This is why diversity feels normal and natural rather than forced. The games have always been diverse. Like, there's never a time when you're walking through New York or San Francisco and you wonder where all the brown people live, because they're everywhere.

This is why boobs in GTA V don't come as a surprise, because you were picking up prostitutes in GTA III. And if you didn't notice, Rockstar has been pro-sex work.

(If you've noticed, among all the other heinous crimes that you have committed throughout the entire series, rape is not one of them.)

In GTA2, you are given the option to work for the redneck faction, but the game makes it clear that they are anti-science, because most of them can't even read. It's a knock on the Deep South since they all drive pickup trucks with Confederate flags on them.

My recent playthrough of Mafia 3, a GTA clone, reminded me of this with its Southern Union gang.

The politics have always been in the Rockstar Games.

 

[Hendrick's]

I think it is too early to say. The last release from them was 5 years ago, which was a very different time sociopolitically. RDR, being historical will likely be able to avoid many of the topics that would potentially be considered "controversial". Now, as Phoenix said, they have always been a bit left leaning already, but I disagree they are very political in their games. I think they tend to go with what is fun and best for the game instead. GTA we will see if they have the balls to not cower to the progressive agenda. Hopefully, they just continue to focus on satire and poke fun at all groups equally.

 

[Horns]

Why do people act like things didn't exist back then? It did. You only know what you've learned about, but there's a lot more that existed which was has not been highlighted.

I think Rockstar will make fun of everyone. It'll be a fun game. No one will think of politics while playing it.

 

[mckmas8808]

because they often focus on highly masculine characters

So Joel in The Last of Us isn't a masculine character?

 

[Breakage]

I wonder if Rockstar will do away with strip bars in the next GTA. I mean, the perpetually outraged have got Team Ninja – Team Ninja – to dial it down for DoA6, and the last I heard was they were going after the large breasts on Soul Calibur's Ivy. Even if Rockstar leave strip bars in, it will likely be a talking point among the usual pot-stirrers.

 

[Lionel Richie]

To be fair OP, a game where the developer tries to push a highly idealized agenda still stick out like a sore thumb. Battlefield with the ableism thing and Wolfenstein 2 with a lot of misguided commentaries that go against a coherent narrative are the exception and even in the case of Battlefield I don't know man, we haven't played the game yet. I dislike Tumblr danger hair nutjobs as much as any god-fearing person would, but let's not create a persecution complex and start seeing pandering in everything.

 

[Barakov]

I think it's a couple of things:

1. Rockstar's games usually do so well that they have the clout to dictate certain things.
2. With some of the content they have in their games they really do not give a flip if they offend someone.

I think Rockstar is going to continue to make the games they want to make without taking a side in whatever gender/race/ideological war happens to be raging on the internet on a particular day.

 

[Sakura Doritos]

ITT: R* has always already been progressive, which is why the content appears immune to "progressive politics."

In the first game, after going on a murderous crime spree, you go to a church to save your game. "Jesus Saves"

This is why diversity feels normal and natural rather than forced. The games have always been diverse. Like, there's never a time when you're walking through New York or San Francisco and you wonder where all the brown people live, because they're everywhere.

This is why boobs in GTA V don't come as a surprise, because you were picking up prostitutes in GTA III. And if you didn't notice, Rockstar has been pro-sex work.

(If you've noticed, among all the other heinous crimes that you have committed throughout the entire series, rape is not one of them.)

In GTA2, you are given the option to work for the redneck faction, but the game makes it clear that they are anti-science, because most of them can't even read. It's a knock on the Deep South since they all drive pickup trucks with Confederate flags on them.

My recent playthrough of Mafia 3, a GTA clone, reminded me of this with its Southern Union gang.

The politics have always been in the Rockstar Games.

Here is the thing you may be missing though. Rockstar games often portray anti heroes and you have to juxtapose that against the established rule of law.

It’s like saying your playing A fishing game and doing a deep dive (hah get it?) into marine biology and talking about how the water was always there.

No shit they’re political. But the satire is on both sides. And the anti left or right messages they put under a microscope are also done for other pop cultural genres like otaku and hipsters.

 

[VulcanRaven]

No, it's that they felt the need to focus on that for the gameplay reveal trailer, when romantic relationships between characters was never the focus of any ND's recent games. Drake had relationships. Did they ever show him making out on the big screen? No. The context for the kissing scene shown at E3 was missing entirely. The only reason remaining is to virtue signal how progressive and inclusive their new game is. And we know that's one of ND's focal points. They said as much themselves. All the while basically ignoring one of the main characters of the previous game.

Why it is a bad thing? Just because it wasn't a focus in any previous games doesn't mean that it can't be now. Also Joel isn't the main character anymore.

 

[mckmas8808]

No, it's that they felt the need to focus on that for the gameplay reveal trailer, when romantic relationships between characters was never the focus of any ND's recent games. Drake had relationships. Did they ever show him making out on the big screen? No. The context for the kissing scene shown at E3 was missing entirely. The only reason remaining is to virtue signal how progressive and inclusive their new game is. And we know that's one of ND's focal points. They said as much themselves. All the while basically ignoring one of the main characters of the previous game.

ND did show Drake's relationship on the big screen. His relationship was huge to the Uncharted games.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Why it is a bad thing? Just because it wasn't a focus in any previous games doesn't mean that it can't be now. Also Joel isn't the main character anymore.

It's a bit too convenient to suddenly start focusing on this aspect now, when they just happen to have a lesbian main character, to give a romantic scene the spotlight. It's obvious there's an agenda there, and that's what bothers people.

ND did show Drake's relationship on the big screen. His relationship was huge to the Uncharted games.

Don't remember that at all. Can you link official trailers for past E3's (or other important events) where they specifically focused on Drake's relationships? I don't think that was something too important in the first three games (didn't play 4 nor the stand-alone thingy, I know those are a bit heavier on story). Yeah, he had relationships, there was some character interaction, but nothing too serious, nor was it the focal point of these games.

 

[mckmas8808]

Don't remember that at all. Can you link official trailers for past E3's (or other important events) where they specifically focused on Drake's relationships? I don't think that was something too important in the first three games (didn't play 4 nor the stand-alone thingy, I know those are a bit heavier on story). Yeah, he had relationships, there was some character interaction, but nothing too serious, nor was it the focal point of these games.

Well they were "hugging" each other. But for anybody that played the game UC4 they saw and played this part.



and this is the whole lovely moment.




So it was no surprise that ND would continue doing this in future games.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Well they were "hugging" each other. But for anybody that played the game UC4 they saw and played this part.

So it was no surprise that ND would continue doing this in future games.

Okay that's cool, but I was asking specifically about them putting the spotlight on scenes like this for big reveals like at E3 or something.

The problem isn't that this type of content is in the game. I expect as much. It's the direction ND has been going in for a while now. The problem, is that they choose to show a very specific scene, important to the story, entirely out of context, at E3 for their gameplay reveal trailer. That's the issue. Not the scene itself, not Ellie being gay (we all knew this already) not even that they show it off at some point. But that this is basically the first thing they're showing from this game, with a very clear agenda behind it.

 

[Z_Y]

Affected*

 

[SLB1904]

MODERATION: This is a tough one to moderate: On one hand we don't encourage insulting others or taking matters personally. On the other the irony that emanates from the post is so beautiful we decided to preserve it as pristine as possible... like a Faberge.

You're probably best reading through the like 4/5 threads it caused to be honest. They became excessive. To sum up no one was really bothered about Ellie's sexuality. I don't know what the attach rate for the DLC was, but even if you didn't get the DLC I find it hard to believe that anyone wouldn't have stumbled across the information anyway as it's freely talked about now.

Basically it boiled down to the most important part of that whole trailer was to just show 'Hey, a lesbian kiss', after establishing that the other girl had a boyfriend anyway and there was very little context for it. It just seemed gratuitous to get cheap acclaim in what was a poorly contrived trailer. Basically running a flag up the pole to be saluted. And then when people were critical of this they got labelled all kinds of stuff like misogynist, sexist, anti feminism, homophobic etc. The usual stuff.

People are offended by the way the material and context is being handled by people clearly not subtle or deft enough to display it in a natural way. This doesn't just apply to TLoU2 though.

Okay that's cool, but I was asking specifically about them putting the spotlight on scenes like this for big reveals like at E3 or something.

The problem isn't that this type of content is in the game. I expect as much. It's the direction ND has been going in for a while now. The problem, is that they choose to show a very specific scene, important to the story, entirely out of context, at E3 for their gameplay reveal trailer. That's the issue. Not the scene itself, not Ellie being gay (we all knew this already) not even that they show it off at some point. But that this is basically the first thing they're showing from this game, with a very clear agenda behind it.

You 2 are the example of the shit society we live in.
When you think the human race is evolving there is this type of ignorant people to bring you to reality.

 

[Gander]

The tone of thread is I don't want to see people of color because during X period of time only whites were making contributions. There is no such thing.

 

[Gamegeneral]

They haven't released a game since long before the current political climate. Kind of hard to change stances in your games when your games aren't coming out.

My opinion? You think they'll ignore as ripe a target as the president? I *guarantee* that Red Dead will make use of the confederacy/anti-abolishinists to criticize the current climate.

 

[Virex]

 

[120v]

i think games in general are still mostly apolitical. perhaps a few instances of shoehorned "diversity" but outside of post release backlash by a sub-section of the internet, devs just want to make games that will sell and gamers want to spend their money on something fun. i don't think the paradigm is much different than it was pre-trump

 

[mckmas8808]

i think games in general are still mostly apolitical. perhaps a few instances of shoehorned "diversity" but outside of post release backlash by a sub-section of the internet, devs just want to make games that will sell and gamers want to spend their money on something fun. i don't think the paradigm is much different than it was pre-trump

What's funny is that there were many people back in 2004 said that Rockstar was trying to be politically correct when they made GTA San Andres back in 2004. Now people are viewing that game as the "norm". What happened between 2004 and now?

 

[Slipphreake]

Are we ignoring GTA: San Andreas, Ballad of Gay Tony, and GTAV? Three non-white characters and one of them is openly gay. And did I miss the openly leftist political ideals in Naughty Dog games?

 

[Phoenix RISING]

R* was edgy before that became a thing.

Red Crayon Aristocrat I noticed I misspelled the Monstrosity. My bad.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

I don't know, I wasn't offended by it. I was a bit shocked because my first thought was "did they just stealth reveal that she is no longer infectious anymore?" but in no way was I offended by Ellie having a crush on the other girl or her kissing her. It makes for a good motivation (I assume the girl gets killed or kidnapped?) and it was destined to happen sooner or later anyways with the lesbian reveal: one can only go so long as single, it's natural to strive for love and Ellie being the loner is probably dying inside to have someone by her side (I guess shes also a young adult now, 18-20? Hormones and all).
But to each their own.

Offended isn't the right word, it's just a sign of the times that Sony will make a AAA game that stars a lesbian protagonist, it's just one of those things you never really expected to happen.

It's not a big deal at the end of the day, but I'd be lying if I say I didn't find it shocking at first.

I wonder if Rockstar will do away with strip bars in the next GTA. I mean, the perpetually outraged have got Team Ninja – Team Ninja – to dial it down for DoA6, and the last I heard was they were going after the large breasts on Soul Calibur's Ivy. Even if Rockstar leave strip bars in, it will likely be a talking point among the usual pot-stirrers.

Do left wingers actually have a problem with strip clubs though? It's a good way for young women to make money and men are expected to follow strict rules of "look but don't touch" or else they're kicked out.

I've only ever seen chatter defending sex workers, I've never seen a think piece calling for an end to strip clubs.

Of course that makes it hypocritical that SJWs would be fine with a woman taking off her clothes for men to ogle for real but get offended over fictional women in states of undress, but it's possible strip clubs in games would fall into a weird loophole where they wouldn't get offended.

 

[Cactuarman]

Okay that's cool, but I was asking specifically about them putting the spotlight on scenes like this for big reveals like at E3 or something.

The problem isn't that this type of content is in the game. I expect as much. It's the direction ND has been going in for a while now. The problem, is that they choose to show a very specific scene, important to the story, entirely out of context, at E3 for their gameplay reveal trailer. That's the issue. Not the scene itself, not Ellie being gay (we all knew this already) not even that they show it off at some point. But that this is basically the first thing they're showing from this game, with a very clear agenda behind it.

I'm still confused by the issue here.

"It's the direction ND has been going in for awhile now" - since Last of Us Part I?

"The problem is that they chose to show a very specific scene" - so showing an important-to-the-story scene out of context on a big stage is the problem?

"First thing they're showing" - but it's not

"With a very clear agenda behind it" - even taking the bait, is the agenda to show a gay kiss? Like... that's ND's agenda? I'd argue that the power of the scene is contrasting something tender and human with something extremely violent - contrasting Ellie being nervous about kissing someone (something very human and relatable) when she's literally had to murder to protect herself and those she cares about (something not very relatable).

Ultimately I think the "agenda" here is to make us care about the story.

 

[InterMusketeer]

"It's the direction ND has been going in for awhile now" - since Last of Us Part I?

Neil Druckmann is on record saying he had a progressive agenda in the making of the Last of Us, yes. Ever since he took over, it is visible in ND's other games to varying degrees.

so showing an important-to-the-story scene out of context on a big stage is the problem?

Yeah. It's confusing. Ellie has grown up and is kissing some girl we don't know, despite her having a boyfriend already, and they have some kind of weird conversation about a stinky smell.

but it's not

I haven't followed the trailers for this new game too much, because I'm not interested, but the only thing I think we saw before this was Ellie playing a guitar and... that's about it. This is pretty much the first big thing they're showing us.

even taking the bait, is the agenda to show a gay kiss? Like... that's ND's agenda?

They have a confirmed progressive agenda where they want to represent minorities and oppressed folks. A "gay kiss" fits that agenda, yes.

Ultimately I think the "agenda" here is to make us care about the story.

Showing Ellie kiss a girl who already has a boyfriend doesn't make me care about the story. It's just confusing because of the lack of context.

cormack12 posted a video in a different thread that I'll refer to here. It outlines a lot of the arguments and evidence out there of this direction ND is going in.

 

[Breakage]

Do left wingers actually have a problem with strip clubs though? It's a good way for young women to make money and men are expected to follow strict rules of "look but don't touch" or else they're kicked out.

I've only ever seen chatter defending sex workers, I've never seen a think piece calling for an end to strip clubs.

Of course that makes it hypocritical that SJWs would be fine with a woman taking off her clothes for men to ogle for real but get offended over fictional women in states of undress, but it's possible strip clubs in games would fall into a weird loophole where they wouldn't get offended.

Five years have passed since the last GTA, and it feels as if the desire to be outraged has enormously increased. These days it's hard to know what so-called SJWs will have a problem with tomorrow – almost everything past or present that doesn't fit the "progressive" vision seems to be a viable target.

Regarding the strippers, it is hard to see how they won't pipe up at the digital depiction of women who are practically naked and sexually dancing for the playable character's pleasure. They get angry at sight of scantily clad, busty fighting game females who aren't even explicitly performing for their male co-characters – so I would not be surprised if they kick off about GTA's strippers.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

Five years have passed since the last GTA, and it feels as if the desire to be outraged has enormously increased. These days it's hard to know what so-called SJWs will have a problem with tomorrow – almost everything past or present that doesn't fit the "progressive" vision seems to be a viable target.

Regarding the strippers, it is hard to see how they won't pipe up at the digital depiction of women who are practically naked and sexually dancing for the playable character's pleasure. They get angry at sight of scantily clad, busty fighting game females who aren't even explicitly performing for their male co-characters – so I would not be surprised if they kick off about GTA's strippers.

Yeah, you're right, someone, somewhere will raise a stink about it inevitably, sexual content games these days will ALWAYS be hit with flak no matter what.

I just hope Rockstar not only ignores it, but doubles downs on it, this time the strippers can be fully nude instead of just topless (hey, Watch Dogs 2 had genitalia, why couldn't GTA get away with it?)

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Offended isn't the right word, it's just a sign of the times that Sony will make a AAA game that stars a lesbian protagonist, it's just one of those things you never really expected to happen.

It's not a big deal at the end of the day, but I'd be lying if I say I didn't find it shocking at first.



Do left wingers actually have a problem with strip clubs though? It's a good way for young women to make money and men are expected to follow strict rules of "look but don't touch" or else they're kicked out.

I've only ever seen chatter defending sex workers, I've never seen a think piece calling for an end to strip clubs.

Of course that makes it hypocritical that SJWs would be fine with a woman taking off her clothes for men to ogle for real but get offended over fictional women in states of undress, but it's possible strip clubs in games would fall into a weird loophole where they wouldn't get offended.

Folks in here confused because of the misdirection in the OP.

Got folks arguing that conservatives are pro-strip clubs, lol. No. Conservatives have always been "anti-sex."

 

[Breakage]

Yeah, you're right, someone, somewhere will raise a stink about it inevitably, sexual content games these days will ALWAYS be hit with flak no matter what.

I just hope Rockstar not only ignores it, but doubles downs on it, this time the strippers can be fully nude instead of just topless (hey, Watch Dogs 2 had genitalia, why couldn't GTA get away with it?)

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Just thinking about it, no current gen game that I know of features strippers. Even Watch Dogs 2 patched out the naughty bits, eventually. This is what makes me think Rockstar will fold to avoid the wrath of the Justice warriors.

 

[Ke0]

Nobody remembers how everyone reacted when San Andreas was announced it seems.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Also, OP didn't play through the Nuevo Paraiso leg of RDR.

It's literally about a revolution, led by a chauvinist elitist, who uses peasants for his own gain, and looks down upon them. He's literally the embodiment--and critique--of how corrupt politicians come to power.

 

[Cactuarman]

Neil Druckmann is on record saying he had a progressive agenda in the making of the Last of Us, yes. Ever since he took over, it is visible in ND's other games to varying degrees.

Fair enough. Did some further digging and will agree that Neil Druckmann is pretty progressive and that is reflective in his stories - I guess we'll just have to agree that this comes down to preference. I like this being reflective in his games as I believe it gives us an interesting variety. Fine if you disagree for that or other reasons.

Yeah. It's confusing. Ellie has grown up and is kissing some girl we don't know, despite her having a boyfriend already, and they have some kind of weird conversation about a stinky smell.

I haven't followed the trailers for this new game too much, because I'm not interested, but the only thing I think we saw before this was Ellie playing a guitar and... that's about it. This is pretty much the first big thing they're showing us.

Showing Ellie kiss a girl who already has a boyfriend doesn't make me care about the story. It's just confusing because of the lack of context.

cormack12 posted a video in a different thread that I'll refer to here. It outlines a lot of the arguments and evidence out there of this direction ND is going in.

You lose me again here as a lot of this seems like personal preference and not an actual issue.

I guess what I ultimately don't understand is that you and RobinGaming's ultimate point seems to just kind of be "I don't like this". RobinGaming's video ends by saying that "most of us play games to have fun, to escape reality, and experience great stories that don't strongly push an agenda but simply entertain" and I don't know if that's true. Plenty of popular works of fiction have an agenda and I think games are no different (or at least should be IMO). And a game having an agenda... so what? There are a lot of observations in that video sure... he points out that there is "an overemphasis on female characters that is becoming more and more visible to me." And again... so what? What's the point here? I don't know what it could be other than "I don't like it."

If Neil Druckmann wants a game full of lesbian warriors killing tiny weak men then fine. IMO at least we're in an age where he can do that. You don't have to like it but I disagree with these videos that talk about how "worrying" it is or that SJWs are "winning" somehow.

 

[WilGrieve]

*Affected

 

[Redshirt]

You lose me again here as a lot of this seems like personal preference and not an actual issue.

I guess what I ultimately don't understand is that you and RobinGaming's ultimate point seems to just kind of be "I don't like this". RobinGaming's video ends by saying that "most of us play games to have fun, to escape reality, and experience great stories that don't strongly push an agenda but simply entertain" and I don't know if that's true. Plenty of popular works of fiction have an agenda and I think games are no different (or at least should be IMO). And a game having an agenda... so what? There are a lot of observations in that video sure... he points out that there is "an overemphasis on female characters that is becoming more and more visible to me." And again... so what? What's the point here? I don't know what it could be other than "I don't like it."

If Neil Druckmann wants a game full of lesbian warriors killing tiny weak men then fine. IMO at least we're in an age where he can do that. You don't have to like it but I disagree with these videos that talk about how "worrying" it is or that SJWs are "winning" somehow.

I agree with you, but I'd used the word 'argument' instead of 'agenda' because it's less loaded and, I think, more accurate.

 

[onlyoneno1]

The best thing about Rockstar games is that they force agendas in their games. While commenting on every part of pop culture.

 

[InterMusketeer]

You don't have to like it but I disagree with these videos that talk about how "worrying" it is or that SJWs are "winning" somehow.

It's worrying to the people who disagree with these choices. These choices, and the agenda thye flow from alienate long-time fans who used to like ND's games. The more they focus on social justice, to the detrement of the game, the more of their loyal fanbase they'll lose. That's all there is to it.

 

[ZiriusOne]

Rockstar games have always been diverse.

Yup, they have been but it was never done in a forced manner and they never made a big deal out of it. They always had minorities in their games where it actually made a lot of sense or when they had a really cool story to tell like in the Ballad of Gay Tony. It never felt like a checklist to avoid getting scolded by the regressives in games journalism.

I remember last E3 where A way out, Wolfenstein 2, Mafia 3, Beyond Good and Evil 2, Uncharted Lost Legacy all basically had the exact same "super diverse and inclusive" character in their video games, a sassy black woman that doesn't take shit from anyone with a big afro.

 

[EverydayBeast]

I don't think they intentionally focus on being diverse and ^ female with large puffy hair is pretty common dating back to the disco era.

 

[LordPezix]

I remember last E3 where A way out, Wolfenstein 2, Mafia 3, Beyond Good and Evil 2, Uncharted Lost Legacy all basically had the exact same "super diverse and inclusive" character in their video games, a sassy black woman that doesn't take shit from anyone with a big afro.

Still far more believable than a female British soldier with a prosthetic hand tho lol.