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Is the Pokémon "Are you a boy or girl?" thing outdated?

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Another thing on it not being 'economically' adviseable. Who says only non-binary people benefit from the addition of extra options? I know many people who would love the option despite the fact they personally identify as male or female. It's stupid easy to resolve this concern while also addressing others as well, as has been stated many times in the thread already via a number of different methods. "From a purely economical point of view" is absolute hogwash.
 
Correct. If I were making a game and concluded that it would require too much effort, not putting in colorblind mode would be a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Or left-handed mode. Or Inverted controls. Or etc...

It's pretty different anyway in that even the people who don't identify as a male or a female may not give a shit about the fact that the game they're playing only has male or female protagonists because it has no impact on the gameplay. I think most people understand when they're playing a game that they're not playing as themselves. Lefties or people who are color-blind however will be at a disadvantage in games that don't have options for them. Their problem isn't that they can't choose a left-handed or colorblind protagonist.
 

Fliesen

Member
Another thing on it not being 'economically' adviseable. Who says only non-binary people benefit from the addition of extra options? I know many people who would love the option despite the fact they personally identify as male or female. It's stupid easy to resolve this concern while also addressing others as well, as has been stated many times in the thread already via a number of different methods. "From a purely economical point of view" is absolute hogwash.

this.

I would argue that 100% of players benefit from the fact that the game offers a more inclusive gender choice that represents the realities of our world more accurately than a binary "boy / girl" choice.

Plenty of male players certainly appreciate it whenever you're able to play as a female protagonist in a game.
Plenty of straight players certainly appreciate it whenever you're able to have same sex relationships in a game.
Plenty of white players certainly appreciate it whenever you're able to customize your character to be of another ethnicity.
 
I would argue that 100% of players benefit from the fact that the game offers a more inclusive gender choice that represents the realities of our world more accurately than a binary "boy / girl" choice.

I would argue they don't, at best we could say that maybe <1% of the population would even notice or care. I say this knowing that at least in this particular case there would be 0 impact in the gameplay portion of the game, just like having the boy/girl option doesn't affect gameplay.
 

Malrend

Member
I would argue that 100% of players benefit from the fact that the game offers a more inclusive gender choice

Perhaps benefit wouldn't be the best word to use, at least when using that 100%.
Only those who'd notice it would benefit from it, and there's a good chunk of gamers that skip right through the "early drag" of Character Creation by selecting the default look/option, to get right into the action.

But it certainly wouldn't cause any harm whatsoever.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
I know this isnt the same so excuse my ignorant - but i wonder if there are also people who have issues with the labeling on public restrooms for example.... is this considered a similar issue ? Because for 99% of the people it wouldnt be, but i imagine if being asked if you wanna play as a Boy or a Girl in a RPG is uncomfortable for some...this might as well be.
 

stephen08

Member
Genuinely disappointed to see how many paint this topic as outrage, or dismiss it the idea based on economic pragmatism. So dismissive of a small change that would mean a lot to some people (and would benefit everyone really).
 

Condom

Member
No. It works for virtually everyone. Non binary people will always live in a binary world and I don't think this is such a big of an issue for them.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
I don't get the economic cost argument. Does it really cost that much to change "Are you a boy or a girl?" to "Which of these styles do you prefer?"? That's literally all you'd need - it's changing seven words.
 
No. It works for virtually everyone. Non binary people will always live in a binary world and I don't think this is such a big of an issue for them.

Empathy is hard... I get it. But no one is asking for a huge change, or even one that would likely be visible to anyone but those effected negatively by the boy girl question to begin with.
 
No. It works for virtually everyone. Non binary people will always live in a binary world and I don't think this is such a big of an issue for them.
As a genderfluid individual who has struggled with issues of gender since I was like 10 and coming to realize that label was even a thing and how it fit me, who has never come out to anyone about this at all until now, how about you fuck off instead of thinking you speak for us and telling us what is and isn't a big deal for us, before you've so much as asked any one of us how we feel (and of course even if you had done that, those themselves would of course be anecdotes and others may feel differently of course, but you haven't even done that much)? Let us speak for ourselves. I mean, that's harsh and I apologize for that, but this is deeply personal for me and being in the minority of minorities like this, and seeing people presume to speak for me like this and brush me away like I'm nothing and it doesn't matter... You might not mean anything by it, but you can't possibly understand how it feels. In short... it hurts. It really, really hurts. I realize you don't intend to do that, far from it in all likeliness, but that doesn't make it any less painful or hurtful to read stuff like this, especially since even if you personally don't mean it in that way, it's just another reminder for people like me that there are too many in this thread (such as the many grey names in here, which I'm very thankful to the efforts of the wonderful moderation team on this site for doing their best to try and keep things civil and clean the best that they're able, and thus again I apologize for the opening of my post to them and realize the risks I myself am taking by posting that and that there's no excuse... but at the same time, I have to get it out of my system and I don't know what else to do so I understand the risk I'm taking and won't hold anything against you and wish you well) that do feel that way and do wish me harm for no other reason than not understanding and being reminded of that is no less painful.

In any case, the simple fact is it doesn't work for everyone, and stuff like this would be helpful and appreciated by people like me. And just doing something like how Pokemon Go simply asks "What's your style" accomplishes this brilliantly while retaining simplicity and user-intuitiveness and harming no one in anyway, with most not even being aware of what's going on. There's no downside or loss for anyone, only gains. I don't understand the problem and resistance here.
 

JimPanzer

Member
I know this is a very sensitive topic and I hope I don't hurt anyone by saying this, but:

The big problem I have with this topic is the notion that media (or rather art) should orient on an arbitrary ruleset. You are not judging the artistic value of a book by the fact if you feel yourself represented (at least I hope you do not). Among the greatest books ever written are plenty which could be considered misogynistic, but that fact doesn't devalue them as an artifact. People need to stop mixing up reality with fiction. There won't be any need for art if its just an representation of the reality we live in or we wish to live in.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Even if you're a radical thinker of non binary gender and you yourself think yourself as a non gendered person I'm sure you can make interpret the question as who do you want your avatar to be.

You're complicating an issue that doesn't need to be complicated for choosing your avatar in Pokemon. This isn't a doctor's office.

Even if you can make that connection, wouldn't you be frustrated that you can't choose for your character to also be gender non-binary?
 
I know this is a very sensitive topic and I hope I don't hurt anyone by saying this, but:

The big problem I have with this topic is the notion that media (or rather art) should orient on an arbitrary ruleset. You are not judging the artistic value of a book by the fact if you feel yourself represented (at least I hope you do not). Among the greatest books ever written are plenty which could be considered misogynistic, but that fact doesn't devalue them as an artifact. People need to stop mixing up reality with fiction. There won't be any need for art if its just an representation of the reality we live in or we wish to live in.
Are you really arguing that that's the case here though? That the world of games such as Pokemon are worlds that are hostile to the existence of people such as myself? And if you're prepared to argue that, then in what way does it actually serve or manifest itself in the plot at all, and how does it benefit or enhance that plot or world of the game at all? If it doesn't, and as things stand it doesn't manifest itself in such a way, then why not posit the games choosing to be a more inclusive world, that aren't hostile to the existence of people such as myself? What would be lost, since it's not a significant part of the lore or world of the games to begin with? Indeed, instead there only seem to be gains since the games become more inclusive, this can be done by simply doing something like asking "What's your style" in order to retain simplicity and efficiency, and nothing's lost in any way. I don't see any negatives to this.
 

Tidalwave

Member
I absolutely think this is something that needs to be changed. However, I don't quite understand why the topic was reopened when anyone who disagrees gets banned. What's there to discuss?
 

JimPanzer

Member
Are you really arguing that that's the case here though? That the world of games such as Pokemon are worlds that are hostile to the existence of people such as myself? And if you're prepared to argue that, then in what way does it actually serve or manifest itself in the plot at all, and how does it benefit or enhance that plot or world of the game at all? If it doesn't, and as things stand it doesn't manifest itself in such a way, then why not posit the games choosing to be a more inclusive world, that aren't hostile to the existence of people such as myself? What would be lost, since it's not a significant part of the lore or world of the games to begin with? Indeed, instead there only seem to be gains since the games become more inclusive, this can be done by simply doing something like asking "What's your style" in order to retain simplicity and efficiency, and nothing's lost in any way. I don't see any negatives to this.

No significant part of the lore? It's been a while since I played a Pokemon game, but aren't Pokemon themselves labeled as male or female by the associated symbols? Don't Pokemon have culture? As beings of culture wouldn't it be possible that there are Pokemon whose gender is not similar to their biological sex?
I know this sounds absurd and it is when we are speaking about little phantasy-monsters. But those are questions you have to deal with if you think this through. Questions which indeed might make a change to the artifact itself.
 
I absolutely think this is something that needs to be changed. However, I don't quite understand why the topic was reopened when anyone who disagrees gets banned. What's there to discuss?
People aren't getting banned for disagreeing. Having disagreements is fine. People are getting banned for being dicks and not being respectful to human beings and posting flat-out transphobic stuff, etc. It's very possible to have disagreements without going into that territory though (which is wonderful and great!) and it's just unfortunate that some people are unable to do that without crossing the line... But that's why they get banned; not because they simply disagreed or anything like that.
 
I absolutely think this is something that needs to be changed. However, I don't quite understand why the topic was reopened when anyone who disagrees gets banned. What's there to discuss?

Nobody was banned for disagreeing. There are dozens of posts in the thread of people not banned who said it's not an issue. You could probably PM a moderator if you're honestly confused.
 
I know this is a very sensitive topic and I hope I don't hurt anyone by saying this, but:

The big problem I have with this topic is the notion that media (or rather art) should orient on an arbitrary ruleset. You are not judging the artistic value of a book by the fact if you feel yourself represented (at least I hope you do not). Among the greatest books ever written are plenty which could be considered misogynistic, but that fact doesn't devalue them as an artifact. People need to stop mixing up reality with fiction. There won't be any need for art if its just an representation of the reality we live in or we wish to live in.

Simple question... do you consider pokemon video games art? There are clearly games that are designed to be art, there are clearly games that were designed to be games but have been elevated to art... but I have a real problem with saying pokemon is either of these things.


Either way, the solution does not negatively effect the gameplay or the story... It removes one question, then allows the user to pick how they want to look without any connotations.

No significant part of the lore? It's been a while since I played a Pokemon game, but aren't Pokemon themselves labeled as male or female by the associated symbols? Don't Pokemon have culture? As beings of culture wouldn't it be possible that there are Pokemon whose gender is not similar to their biological sex?
I know this sounds absurd and it is when we are speaking about little phantasy-monsters. But those are questions you have to deal with if you think this through. Questions which indeed might make a change to the artifact itself.

You realize there are genderless pokemon right? Trying to use pokemon gender for your argument is a dead end avenue.
 
I know this is a very sensitive topic and I hope I don't hurt anyone by saying this, but:

The big problem I have with this topic is the notion that media (or rather art) should orient on an arbitrary ruleset. You are not judging the artistic value of a book by the fact if you feel yourself represented (at least I hope you do not). Among the greatest books ever written are plenty which could be considered misogynistic, but that fact doesn't devalue them as an artifact. People need to stop mixing up reality with fiction. There won't be any need for art if its just an representation of the reality we live in or we wish to live in.

You do realize it's possible to ask a question like "is this thing outdated?" without implying some notion that media has to follow a ruleset... right? As you're seemingly an advocate for art you should know criticism and examination are a key component to it. If a game is honestly a piece of art to you then it should absolutely be generating these types of discussions.
 
No significant part of the lore? It's been a while since I played a Pokemon game, but aren't Pokemon themselves labeled as male or female by the associated symbols? Don't Pokemon have culture? As beings of culture wouldn't it be possible that there are Pokemon whose gender is not similar to their biological sex?
I know this sounds absurd and it is when we are speaking about little phantasy-monsters. But those are questions you have to deal with if you think this through. Questions which indeed might make a change to the artifact itself.
If you're going to bring up the Pokemon themselves, you can't avoid the fact that as far as Pokemon are concerned it's quite clear that there isn't a gender binary, which just makes things more odd. Case in point: the numerous Legendary Pokemon, which have no sex at all. Granted, that's mostly for the gameplay reason of making the player unable to breed them (although, some Legendaries, such as the Pokemon Heatran do in fact have different sexes, which kind of throws a wrench in that and just makes things even weirder) but nonetheless from a "lore" perspective it seems quite clear in the games that they really don't seem to have a gender or sex at all.

And of course, there are many non-Legendary Pokemon that also don't have gender such as Claydol, Rotom, Lunatone, Solrock, Voltorb, Electrode, etc:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Category:Genderless_Pokémon

Then you also have stuff like the Azurill --> Marill gender "glitch" (where in Gens 3-5, due to Azurill and Marill having different gender ratios in those generations female Azurill had a chance of evolving into male Marill):
http://glitchcity.info/wiki/Azurill_gender_glitch

So yeah, it definitely doesn't seem to be a problem and in fact if anything it's odd that the same can't apply to trainers, as humans seem to be the odd ones out in the Pokemon world in that respect for no particular lore-based reason at all so nothing would be lost by changing it since such possibilities already apply to the Pokemon themselves anyway.
 

JimPanzer

Member
Simple question... do you consider pokemon video games art? There are clearly games that are designed to be art, there are clearly games that were designed to be games but have been elevated to art... but I have a real problem with saying pokemon is either of these things.


Either way, the solution does not negatively effect the gameplay or the story... It removes one question, then allows the user to pick how they want to look without any connotations.

What else should they be? The whole topic only makes sense if they are considered art. I mean noone gets offended by the fact, that there are no "transgender pieces" in chess.
 

JimPanzer

Member
You realize there are genderless pokemon right? Trying to use pokemon gender for your argument is a dead end avenue.

No I did not know, but from what I hear they rather seem to be "sexless" which is an entirely different thing.

Anyway, I feel like I already said to much, and I really don't want to offend anyboy (and risk a ban tbh). So I guess I'm out.
 

Fliesen

Member
What else should they be? The whole topic only makes sense if they are considered art. I mean noone gets offended by the fact, that there are no "transgender pieces" in chess.

Pokemon asks you about your gender but doesn't offer a wholly inclusive set of answers.

Chess doesn't ask you shit. :/
 

Gnome

Member
What else should they be? The whole topic only makes sense if they are considered art. I mean noone gets offended by the fact, that there are no "transgender pieces" in chess.
You could consider it a toy. There's a lot of discussion around gendered toys if you want to look it up.
 
I can't really see any reason why Pokemon can't just let you customize your character and decider your gender as you're creating your trainer. If pokemon can be male, female, genderless there's no reason why the trainer can't be. If Landoras of all Pokemon can be genderless, why can't I? And it's a fact that more people like me than that asshole.
 
What else should they be? The whole topic only makes sense if they are considered art. I mean noone gets offended by the fact, that there are no "transgender pieces" in chess.

#1: Games. Games can have set rules, but they can also have variations without being seen as an insult or attack on the creator (see something like Monopoly, which has many rule and cosmetic variations).

#2: It could be argued that Chess shows people outside of their heteronormal views... Queen are traditionally women. Women, especially in medieval or fantasy settings, are seen as inferior to men. In Chess, not only is the only female piece not the weakest one, but it's the strongest one with the greatest range and strategic value.

So yes, Chess features no 'trans' pieces, it does however split from heteronormal views on women, so it's actually a very interesting case to use for your example. Especially for a game dating back as far as it is.
 
I don't get the economic cost argument. Does it really cost that much to change "Are you a boy or a girl?" to "Which of these styles do you prefer?"? That's literally all you'd need - it's changing seven words.

Not really. You have to change pronouns for every language and for some languages that have gender specific verbs or don't have appropriate gender neutral pronouns this requires a lot of careful work.
 
Not really. You have to change pronouns for every language and for some languages that have gender specific verbs or don't have appropriate gender neutral pronouns this requires a lot of careful work.

The English version already does this for the most part, to the point that some conversations can come off a little unnatural. As for it being an issue with other languages... Should French hold back the English version? With Pokemon being a 10+ million seller every generation can they really not afford a little more put into localization for these other regions?
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Not really. You have to change pronouns for every language and for some languages that have gender specific verbs or don't have appropriate gender neutral pronouns this requires a lot of careful work.

Honestly, I'm genuinely curious how often the player character is actually referred to by gender pronouns. You're very rarely referred to in the third person - there's no chance to use "her/she/her/herself" or whatever. I don't think there would actually need to be many if any changes; especially since Gamefreak can use "name"/"name"/"name's" for the first three in all contexts except when the character referring to you doesn't even know you.

EDIT: I actually went and found the Pokemon Red script, because it's the shortest and because it only uses a male character making it easier.

(https://www.gamefaqs.com/gameboy/367023-pokemon-red-version/faqs/48982)

If you ctrl+F through, you'll find that the player is never once referred to by a pronoun that isn't their name or the various declensions of "you". There's no "he/him/his/himself" even once!

So I really don't think it'd be that much effort. Like, for Red, it would have been no effort at all!

EDIT2: I realize this is probably more difficult in the Romance languages because you have the problem of, for example, le champion vs. la championne. I have no idea how you'd approach that; I'd have to defer to people more informed. But at least in English, this would be a remarkably easy change.
 
No I did not know, but from what I hear they rather seem to be "sexless" which is an entirely different thing.

Anyway, I feel like I already said to much, and I really don't want to offend anyboy (and risk a ban tbh). So I guess I'm out.
Being ignorant on the topic is okay, man. Just don't be an asshole to people and you'll be fine.

I can't believe some of you have patiently explained the same thing over and over again since thread was reopened. You're saints.
 

JimPanzer

Member
Being ignorant on the topic is okay, man. Just don't be an asshole to people and you'll be fine.

Well that's kind of a dickish thing to say. What do you really want to hear? I read a lot in this thread and tried to express my opinion as carefully as I could (keep in mind English is not my mother tongue) and now I'm labeled ignorant?
 
Well that's kind of a dickish thing to say. What do you really want to hear? I read a lot in this thread and tried to express my opinion as carefully as I could (keep in mind English is not my mother tongue) and now I'm labeled ignorant?
No not at all, that was meant more generally. I'm saying it's okay to not know everything and you won't get banned if you're not mean to people.
 
The English version already does this for the most part, to the point that some conversations can come off a little unnatural. As for it being an issue with other languages... Should French hold back the English version? With Pokemon being a 10+ million seller every generation can they really not afford a little more put into localization for these other regions?

Honestly, I'm genuinely curious how often the player character is actually referred to by gender pronouns. You're very rarely referred to in the third person - there's no chance to use "her/she/her/herself" or whatever. I don't think there would actually need to be many if any changes; especially since Gamefreak can use "name"/"name"/"name's" for the first three in all contexts except when the character referring to you doesn't even know you.

EDIT: I actually went and found the Pokemon Red script, because it's the shortest and because it only uses a male character making it easier.

(https://www.gamefaqs.com/gameboy/367023-pokemon-red-version/faqs/48982)

If you ctrl+F through, you'll find that the player is never once referred to by a pronoun that isn't their name or the various declensions of "you". There's no "he/him/his/himself" even once!

So I really don't think it'd be that much effort. Like, for Red, it would have been no effort at all!

I am not against the change, just arguing things might not be as simple as "change a few words". Those are just some hurdles some came up by discussing in this thread so who knows how much extra effort must be put into this seemingly simple task. The more work it requires the lower priority it would be on Geamfreak's to do list.

And I can bet good money that real uproar from media will happen when SOME regions get the gutted version with less gender representation. And I think Gamefreak knows too well to open this can of worms.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
No not at all, that was meant more generally. I'm saying it's okay to not know everything and you won't get banned if you're not mean to people.

Do you have something to say to this ? Really want to know if this and how big of an issue this is. Both issues cant be compared but it would help me understand the topic more.

I know this isnt the same so excuse my ignorant - but i wonder if there are also people who have issues with the labeling on public restrooms for example.... is this considered a similar issue ? Because for 99% of the people it wouldnt be, but i imagine if being asked if you wanna play as a Boy or a Girl in a RPG is uncomfortable for some...this might as well be.
 

JimPanzer

Member
Something raised my interest though. Is the term "genderless" for Pokemon canon? Like I said, I think the right term should be "sexless", because Pokemon aren't labeled according to their gender, but to their biological sex. Or am I missing something?
 
I know this isnt the same so excuse my ignorant - but i wonder if there are also people who have issues with the labeling on public restrooms for example.... is this considered a similar issue ? Because for 99% of the people it wouldnt be, but i imagine if being asked if you wanna play as a Boy or a Girl in a RPG is uncomfortable for some...this might as well be.
Do you have something to say to this ? Really want to know if this and how big of an issue this is. Both issues cant be compared but it would help me understand the topic more.
Sure! Google 'Gender neutral bathrooms' and you'll find a host of reading material on the subject, both informative and fear-mongering.
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
Something raised my interest though. Is the term "genderless" for Pokemon canon? Like I said, I think the right term should be "sexless", because Pokemon aren't labeled according to their gender, but to their biological sex. Or am I missing something?
Most of the "genderless" Pokemon are usually legendaries which could actually have a sex, but it's unknown for breeding reasons (or rather the lack of) so not labed as either.

Edit: the funny thing is that all pokemon related platforms only speak of gender rather than sex. From the reproductive point of view (breeding pokemon) this is obviously incorrect. The original Japanese word &#24615;&#21029; means sex though.
Could it be that Nintendo found the word 'sex' to be to 'dirty' and chose gender instead?
 

Goron2000

best junior ever
It's asking if you want to be the boy character or the girl character, I really don't see an issue. If I play any other Japanese rpg I'm usually just given a character. If they want to put in another option then that's cool but I really don't think they should be obligated.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sure! Google 'Gender neutral bathrooms' and you'll find a host of reading material on the subject, both informative and fear-mongering.

Thanks for the link - i read only the Huffingpost article, but i feel ii have to sit on it first before i can make up my mind on this complex issue. My first reaction is that gender neutral public restrooms would have a negative affect on a lot of people.

Then again the situation how it is now also has negative effects on the affected people....we def. have a long road ahead. I would call my openminded but the lack of experience makes me more ignorant to some of the issue transgender people have to face.

This topic and responses at least got me to think about the issue - so i should be more prepared when it comes up in the future.

To add in - while i was a bit defensive on my first couple posts in this thread, the restroom situation just show again that they are many more "real life" situation that suck for that group of people so i can see why you would be tired if you are getting "screwed" over in a digital world too - for no apparent reason. I get it and i think companys like Nintendo will adapt down the line. I just dont know if you should expect a very traditional kids-oriented IP like Pokemon to be the front runner on that issue. It might sound stupid - but being to start the Pokemon adventure a boy or a girl is kinda part of the series at this point, just like starting Zelda a young boy.

btw. How do Pokemon spin-offs handle this ? Like Pokemon Ranger ? I played Mistery Dungeon for example but im pretty sure gender of the Pokemons doesnt play a role in that game...but its been a while i might be wrong.
 
Thanks for the link - i read only the Huffingpost article, but i feel ii have to sit on it first before i can make up my mind on this complex issue. My first reaction is that gender neutral public restrooms would have a negative affect on a lot of people.

Then again the situation how it is now also has negative effects on the affected people....we def. have a long road ahead. I would call my openminded but the lack of experience makes me more ignorant to some of the issue transgender people have to face.

This topic and responses at least got me to think about the issue - so i should be more prepared when it comes up in the future.

To add in - while i was a bit defensive on my first couple posts in this thread, the restroom situation just show again that they are many more "real life" situation that suck for that group of people so i can see why you would be tired if you are getting "screwed" over in a digital world too - for no apparent reason. I get it and i think companys like Nintendo will adapt down the line. I just dont know if you should expect a very traditional kids-oriented IP like Pokemon to be the front runner on that issue. It might sound stupid - but being to start the Pokemon adventure a boy or a girl is kinda part of the series at this point, just like starting Zelda a young boy.

btw. How do Pokemon spin-offs handle this ? Like Pokemon Ranger ? I played Mistery Dungeon for example but im pretty sure gender of the Pokemons doesnt play a role in that game...but its been a while i might be wrong.
Yeah, good on you for becoming more open-minded as the thread went on!

In any case; many kids-oriented companies take their educational role very seriously, and Nintendo has certainly provided evidence of this in the past. I definitely wouldn't put it past them to be one of the industry leaders in this aspect.
 

Fliesen

Member
Well that's kind of a dickish thing to say. What do you really want to hear? I read a lot in this thread and tried to express my opinion as carefully as I could (keep in mind English is not my mother tongue) and now I'm labeled ignorant?

see how hurtful it can be when you feel you're being mislabeled? - how very ontopic ;)

also, some people in here use "ignorant" simply in it's very literal meaning of "not aware of a certain thing"
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed or lack of knowledge.[1] The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often (incorrectly) used to describe individuals who deliberately ignore or disregard important information or facts.

if you didn't know that there were people who didn't identify as either of the two binary genders, you were "ignorant" to those issues. Likely not wilfully so.
 
Should Pokémon ask if you're paraplegic or not? I'm sure lots of people without legs play pokémon.
I see this as kind of the same deal. It's not outdated, it just doesn't cover every single little possibility which is perfectly reasonable.
 
Here's the thing I don't understand

Let's say developers decide, ok, two options isn't enough. So now Elder Scrolls 7 (I can't even remember what number we're on anymore) has more options

What, exactly, does that even look like when you're making your character? If your character doesnt as a base look male or female, what DO they look like? Noting that genitalia are obviously not viewable.

They don't ask for your sexual preference in the character creator. They don't care if you're bi or pan or lesbian or gay or whatever else. They don't care if you're Trans and used to be a guy but are a girl now. They don't care if you don't have the same behavioral patterns as a male or a female or neither.

All they're asking. All they've ever asked. Is if you, right now, LOOK like a boy or a girl. And they're not even going that far. In reality they're just asking what you WANT to look like right now.

That's all pokemon asks too. The only difference is you're stuck with the default template. I can understand the argument for a character creator, but I don't understand how this is in any way a lgbtq issue.
 
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