Nintendo cannot compete in home consoles, that much is a given at this point. Their handheld market will continue to shrink as the children of the world move from mario and pokemon to angry birds and cut the rope, not to mention puzzles and dragons, candy crush saga, etc. There are children 4-5 years old who stay up at night watching videos on youtube on minecraft crafting. Those kids are never going to ever buy a nintendo handheld or console.
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Iwata: Nintendo is not good at competing, so must offer something different
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shadowsdarknes
Member
I get that Nintendo does its own thing and that's great.
However, I don't particularly think a touch screen and continued safe software output is all that impressive.
However, I don't particularly think a touch screen and continued safe software output is all that impressive.
talk about selective quoting!
Wii was a disaster long term. They sold out their hardcore long term fans for casuals. The casuals didn't return for the WiiU and their own fans refuse to buy the WiiU despite being vocal in supporting it on GAF!
Schnozberry
Member
I know. Most of Nintendo's cash on hand is money they banked during the fattest years of Wii and DS success. What I'm saying is that despite the general assumption that Iwata is swimming in Money like Scrooge McDuck, Nintendo is not in a position to have expensive failures. They don't have the ongoing revenue to support it for very long.
Personally, I like Nintendo's approach and I really like WiiU. But I still think they should have stuck with Wiimote as the primary controller. They hit upon a paradigm shifting idea that was only really held back in the long term by a lack of forsight in the hardware's GPU feature-set; they should have fleshed motion controls out a bit more before ditching it as their primary selling point. The 'innovation' could have come in elsewhere.
I agree that the in the past 2yrs Sony has done everything right with the PS3 leading into PS4. Again, they seem to have made some excellent choices with PS4 design and implementation.
On the other hand, I think MS could have crushed Sony in NA/UK if they had the same level of devotion and didn't let the 360 languish for the past 2yrs. Or if they had a better strategy for XB One. They really dropped the ball.. and it's all on them.
Nintendo probably thought lightening would strike twice with their tablet-oriented device. The business world is cruel sometimes and they found out the hard way.. I still think they can make a competitive home console, so I hope they don't make a rash decision to forfeit a next-next gen just because of Wii U's performance.
Judging by the majority of the comments in this thread, it's pretty obvious something was lost in the translation of Iwata's comments. I pretty sure he didn't mean that they can't compete. More likely he meant that Nintendo isn't going to fight the battle on the terms set by MS and Sony. They will offer something different that will make the other two companies bring the battle to them. It worked for the Wii, Nintendo brought motion control to the masses and Sony and MS followed. It's not quite as successful with the Wii U but it is still early in the game.
Even if the Wii U turns out to be a dud in lifetime sales, Nintendo will innovate with their next console in some way. It's what they do, and when they strike gold, it's great. While MS and Sony gamble on higher end specs, Nintendo gambles on innovation. Neither is a sure thing, (Vita says hi).
Even if the Wii U turns out to be a dud in lifetime sales, Nintendo will innovate with their next console in some way. It's what they do, and when they strike gold, it's great. While MS and Sony gamble on higher end specs, Nintendo gambles on innovation. Neither is a sure thing, (Vita says hi).
balladofwindfishes
Member
But they're doing fine in the handheld market. The WiiU isn't competing with mobile.
Like the hat?
Banned
DS was by far the opposite of playing it safe. Hell, they even made up that third pillar nonsense in case it failed.
At least Sony's leadership is trying to learn from the mistakes of the past (see PS4). Iwata is looking for excuses.
I hope that your first and second party output could at least match both Sony and Microsoft Third party output. I mean, with this HD transtition problem they receive, how long will Wii U owner have to wait between each game releases and clean dust on their console to play a new game?
What is "fine"? The 3DS is selling hardware and software well below DS levels. It's still profitable but it's a step down from where they were.
Except they're offering nothing unique this time round. The gamepad is delegated to useless non inventive implementations for 99.99% of games (nintendo land and zombi u stick out). It's junk that adds to the cost of an under powered console and it's not unique either, sony has remote play and both next gen consoles can have optional tablet connectivity in games if they so desire.
Don't they have something silly like 30-50 billion in cashola?
Even MS throwing left right and centre over 2 generations are 6 billion in the red.
I trust Nintendo, even though the last Nintendo system I bought since NES was a DSLite. I trust them to be the Apple of the video game industry. They have their own compass that they trust and follow, they trust their culture over corporate trending. I like that. I believe in that, so I want to see Nintendo succeed where I (strangely) don't really give a damn about Microsoft failing in the gaming market.
edit:
They could fix the WiiMote thing by Xmas, sell controllers at rebate price for system owners and bundle future packages. It's such a minor thing. And then moneyhat fucking games and Nintendo would be gaining altitude again.
edit:
They could fix the WiiMote thing by Xmas, sell controllers at rebate price for system owners and bundle future packages. It's such a minor thing. And then moneyhat fucking games and Nintendo would be gaining altitude again.
DragonSworne
Banned
They aren't doing fine in the handheld market.
Schnozberry
Member
What about Sony and Microsoft's output is impressive, outside of pushing graphics closer to where PC's have been? It's a lot of sequels and a hardware refresh. They aren't exactly reinventing the wheel, but that hasn't stopped people from lining up to give them handjobs.
Schnozberry
Member
They have roughly $6 billion on hand. Much of their cash was absorbed in R&D and purchasing Wii U and 3DS inventory.
To paraphrase myself from another thread, Nintendo has fundamental problems, the worst of which is this:
The Nintendo brand and IPs are geared towards a specific shrinking userbase and are not conducive to growing third party support.
Until this problem is fixed, it won't matter what hardware they release.
The Nintendo brand and IPs are geared towards a specific shrinking userbase and are not conducive to growing third party support.
Until this problem is fixed, it won't matter what hardware they release.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Is the PS3 not doing "fine" because it isn't outselling the PS2? Or the GBA because it didn't do GB numbers?
You don't hit a home run every single release. Just as the consoles that followed the GB didn't radically outsell it, the ones following the DS won't either. But that doesn't mean they're failures, it means the GB and DS were incredible performers, above and beyond the norm for the market.
How so? I mean, we're 2 days away from a handheld game that will probably have lifetime sales of 10 million or more. If that's not "doing fine" what is?
I have played all the current gen consoles, and I'm liking the Wii U more because of its uniqueness. Take note that I previously don't like the Wii, and believed that motion controls are plain gimmicks.
Touchscreen controller is cool, Miiverse is great, and backward compatibility (for games and accessories) is godsend. I would prefer those than a more powerful GPU or CPU.
Touchscreen controller is cool, Miiverse is great, and backward compatibility (for games and accessories) is godsend. I would prefer those than a more powerful GPU or CPU.
I love Nintendo, but the irony is ripe here. A company that's been making the same games for years prides itself on innovation. The punchlines write themselves.
I mean, look, I know that they innovate within the games themselves (some-to-most of the time) it still looks pretty stagnant from the outside looking in.
I mean, look, I know that they innovate within the games themselves (some-to-most of the time) it still looks pretty stagnant from the outside looking in.
RobFox64tm
Member
Well, no one is saying being different is always successful either. Innovation is a process, and like any process, it can lead to failures. But at least they are leading somewhere else other than the status quo. Quite frankly Nintendo as a brand would lose a lot of its charm if they took that route, and that's why I can't understand the outcry for them to do so. If you want what others are doing, that option is always available to you, but there is no reason Nintendo can't just be Nintendo and coexist with that. I'd rather them fail trying to be unique, than succeed by assimilating into what the current trends are. They wouldn't be Nintendo anymore at that point, and whether some care to admit it or not, the industry would be the worse off for it.
DragonSworne
Banned
You can say this about the games industry in general though. Game design has not radically changed in the past 2-3 years, across the entire industry.
The home console market grew. The handheld market has not grown, and has shrunk rapidly because of smartphones. The 3DS is turning a profit and will not stop doing so. The double-whammy of 2DS + Pokemon this Holiday season is going to work out extremely well for them.
HolyBaikal
Banned
You would think that Nintendo would have been the type of company that try to play it safe for most of their history. But the company has had, in fact, quite a history of experimentation. They invested a lot of money in Virtual Boy, to no return. And motion control is definitely a good idea that will be used with the Oculus Rift. There is some pretty sophisticated technology in the Wiimote. More on that here. The Razer Hydra is better, and I don't think it would exist without the Wiimote helping to popularized the idea.
The Razer Hydra is far from perfect, but I'm looking forward to improved devices like it, working with the Oculus Rift. The Wiimote and Razer Hydra are definitely a step in the right direction.
The Razer Hydra is far from perfect, but I'm looking forward to improved devices like it, working with the Oculus Rift. The Wiimote and Razer Hydra are definitely a step in the right direction.
Here is a quote that is not selective but that doesn't even make sense :
A console is successful if it sells well and makes money for the constructor. Period.
The casual/hardcore debate is so old that I won't even start this discussion again. And I don't even know what argument or fact can lead you to say that nintendo fans refuse to buy the wii U but are vocal here.
Their problem is that despite thinking themselves as being innovative, they release the most safe and lazy cookie cutter sequels going. People are now getting bored.
They simply refuse to release anything new.
balladofwindfishes
Member
So unless the 3DS outsold the highest selling handheld system ever released, it's a failure?
I guess the PS3 is a failure!
IP's, my friend.
Yeah, the PS3 is a terrible failure. They went from dominating a generation with great profits to being horribly in the red and scrabbling to beat the guys who previously hadn't even put up a challenge.
Nintendo is losing market share to phones and pads. They're not dead by any means but they're not doing great either.
We had a thread last week where I called them out for their bullshit in a pachter thread. Many came out the wood work refusing to buy a WiiU for the same reasons everyone else had being going on about yet still defended Iwata and his shitty ideas!
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Game design hasn't "radically changed" in over a decade unless you count chest high wall shooters as "radically changed."
Also, this topic has told me that
1) Apple was right in their design lawsuits. Flat devices with screens are all the same.
2) Nintendo needs to make a Gamecube 2 and all their problems will be solved.
Not so fast sweetheart. Mario and Pokemon are still quite popular with the kids. I don't get this argument. Sure tablets and stuff is cutting into that but kids will still buy ds if only because one thing isn't enough... When I was a kid I had a gameboy and a game gear. Both can coexist as they aren't exactly the same.
This is also a silly argument. No shit it isn't doing g as well as the DS... Not much does. Any one expecting that is a moron. The 3ds is still a success
As for this topic, I agree. Nintendo doesn't have the firepower to go up with Sony and Ms tech. And having 3 systems that are the same is rather pointless as Nintendo would just lose that war because of the stigma they have.
That being said the Wii U just isn't cool enough enough to make up fir the difference this time. They simply choose the wrong dog in the fight this time and will pay for it.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The Super Nintendo sold less than the NES
The GBA sold less than the Game Boy
The SNES and GBA were bombs.
Also, I'm just assuming something was lost in translation. No CEO says "we aren't good at competing". I mean, I've heard "we can't compete in this space so we do this instead", which I think he's trying to say, but the translated quote itself just comes off wrong.
Yamauchi's whole thing was being competitive. He just liked to crush competitors.
Yamauchi's whole thing was being competitive. He just liked to crush competitors.
Schnozberry
Member
What makes one innovative? If I release 3 different IP's centered around Space Marines or Modern Warfare from an FPS perspective, am I innovating?
For my money there is more innovation in terms of gameplay in your average Mario game than there is in most iterative FPS or Sports franchises. But, at the same time, games have become a medium that is obsessed with delivering cinematic experiences more so than competent game mechanics, so perhaps Nintendo is just pissing into the wind in that regard.
What Wii U games? I'll accept Luigi then I'm drawing blanks. Dont give a shitt about handheld either.
H_Prestige
Banned
The market for people who play video games on devices they hold in their hands has grown substantially since the DS days. Let's not make excuses please.
Even though it may be true, it's probably not something that the head of Nintendo should be saying. Sure we've seen them succeed by being different but I think they could also succeed if they competed and did a better job than the competition. Typically though, Nintendo doesn't do those things better. They should try to change that.
I don't disagree, but the key is more that innovation is constantly wasted on franchises people have already written off. It's a shame. Nintendo makes really good games with solid mechanics and new ideas. But because they refuse to create any new IP, it gets ignored by people who've already decided they don't want to play Mario or Zelda. It's certainly not a problem exclusive to them, but it certainly doesn't help when they're not actively competing in other arenas.
This surprises you?
Relaxed Muscle
Member
It is.
3DS tracking behind the DS is a failure. And even more because is a growing problem, smartphones and other devices are eating handheld market at increasing pace and Nintendo is not reacting to the changes in the market and industry.
dcx4610
Member
They competed just fine with the NES and SNES. It annoys me to hear them act like they are poor and there's no way they can compete with the big boys. They WERE the big boy.
Iwata is a nice guy but he's the biggest problem with Nintendo right now. His vision and direction for the company is a sad state of affairs.
Iwata is a nice guy but he's the biggest problem with Nintendo right now. His vision and direction for the company is a sad state of affairs.
I know my kids will play whatever I buy them, and I'll definitely won't allow them to play any Angry Birds crap
.KirbYuuYuu
Member
It's easy to compete with another PURE video game company (KEYWORD) vs a giant that have other areas to subsidize for them.
Did you not even read the OP?