Support NeoGAF

[Mr. Wonderful]

The issue with the Wii U for me is that we're still waiting for the game that justifies the unique controller setup.

The closest thing I've played is Nintendoland, but then I haven't seen anything of that justification level since.

 

[Gonff]

A gimmick serves no purpose other than novelty. The CORE of the Wii U is built around the WiiPad. It is in no way a gimmick, not in the fake derogatory term some people make up, and not to the definition of the word.

As a fan of Nintendo, I have two requests that they compete on:
Achievements
Online accounts.

That's it. The Wii U is capable of visuals that are superb. As good as X1 or PS4? Not technically. But Wind Waker HD is gorgeous and that was pumped out in not even a year.

 

[anon_mastermind]

And this is why I love Nintendo more than ever. High quality games, combined with stuff like the Wii Remote, Wii U Gamepad, Miiverse, Streetpass, glasses free 3D. All make for an unique, enjoyable experience. If only third parties jumped on board in full force, alas it is not meant to be.

 

[Raziel]

Because thats what he said right. Because not competing with the established offerings in the market means you are compensating with gimmicks, and the only way to truly validate a product is to try and 1up whatever your competitor is doing.
Wow, what a boring, grey, stagnant world view to have

My world views don't enter the picture. He says pretty plainly that their gimmicks - sorry, "challengers of the status quo" - are motivated directly by their belief that they can't compete. What is there left to debate here?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Achievements

I will never understand the appeal of this. I wouldn't want something popping up to tell me something I just did unless it gave me exp in a RPG or something. Or gave me extra lives in a platformer.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

My world views don't enter the picture. He says pretty plainly that their gimmicks - sorry, "challengers of the status quo" - are motivated directly by their belief that they can't compete. What is there left to debate here?

That you put no lines in between attempts at innovation and gimmicks.

 

[MYE]

My world views don't enter the picture. He says pretty plainly that their gimmicks - sorry, "challengers of the status quo" - are motivated directly by their belief that they can't compete. What is there left to debate here?

The way you choose to interpret what is being said

 

[Kureransu]

Please Nintendo no more gimmicks.

Without these "Gimmicks" We'd all be playing games on controllers without rumble, on d-pads, without shoulder buttons (triggers goes to sega and the Nights gamepad), and with lacking the diamond layout we've all deemed as the staus quo. Nintendo has added something to the way we control games in almost every generation. And 90% of the time it stuck. Like someone said before, you don't get it right every time.

Honestly though, I really like the way the game pad works with the games. I've mentioned it before, but Batman:AC does a really fine job of using the pad to enhance the experience. Perhaps i'm a bit crazy, but i like that everything that came in directly to batman (answering the phone, being talked to through his communicator, otr intercepting transmissions) came through the controller speaker, kinda similar to zombi U. Its adds another layer of depthTracing phone calls and breaking codes on the pad i also thought was cool along with the remote control batterang.

I think with the gamepad people were expecting some mind blowing controls to the game or something. I feel the controls is meant to enhance how we currently play, not replace. I think most people think the latter, which is why they reject it like the plague. It's kinda how rumble works. When done right it's one of those things you actually miss when you don't have it available. Also, You don't HAVE to use the motion controls, you have the option. And i don't see anything wrong with having options.

 

[Metal B]

I think people are deluding themselves if they think Nintendo can't do a hardware like PS4 for more or less the same price. But instead is was a conscious choice: they choosed a pricey controller and retrocompatibility over anything else.

Sorry, but that is wrong. A company like Sony can get there parts much cheaper, simply by synapses with other parts of there company. Need some Ram? Ask the Laptop division to order some for them, too. The same think happens with all the online-software and -structure. People complain, why there not at the same height then Sony and Microsoft. It's so easy! Yeah, it looks easy, if your other company division are extreme experience in those fields. Nintendo has to start from stretch and only now have there own division of real experts.

Nintendo made the mistake to be not different enough with the WiiU and the 3DS. People, who hope they will catch up in the future, are in for an disappointment. They will create even more indifferent consoles and handheld. Nintendo can't beat Microsoft and Sony, but they learned with the Wii and DS, that they don't need to. I'm happy, that we get diversity instead of everything trying to be the same.

 

[Herne]

I think you are the only person I've ever heard describe playing the wii as magic. How does that even happen? I remember my first time being pure disgust at the lack of 1:1 with the controller after all there boasting, and how horribly ugly Zelda looked on a HD display. Even my family thought something was wrong with the screen because of how ugly the game looked when put next to 360 games they played.

By having a completely different experience to you, I suppose. I loved the Wii, thought it was amazing and will always remember the day I turned it on for the first time. And it wasn't the Wii's fault that HD televisions (which weren't in the majority at the time of launch) can't display SD devices properly.

Also surprised at the hate in here.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

What about Sony and Microsoft's output is impressive, outside of pushing graphics closer to where PC's have been? It's a lot of sequels and a hardware refresh. They aren't exactly reinventing the wheel, but that hasn't stopped people from lining up to give them handjobs.

Its been a lot more fresh, diverse, and risky than Nintendo's output.

Sony has churned out many new IPs. Meanwhile we have Reggie saying a month back, "We will be fine we have Mario, Zelda, and Donkey Kong". That literally could have been any year for Nintendo since ever.

Mag is a game that attempted 256 players online. they didn't exactly have a lot of inspiration tO copy other game design.

Starhawk was another ambitious title that pushed online gaming differently, too.

little big planet design tools and sharing functionality were unique And ambitious.

heavy rain and beyond two souls are both titles that stray away from the traditional definition of a game.

game titles such as flower, journey, and the unfinished Swan are all unique and unusual in their design

Nintendo's output has been safe and predictable. We are getting another 3d Mario title more so resembling a handheld version that is afraid to embrace an online component much like NSMBU.

Their biggest game of the summer controlled best with a Wiimote (pikmin 3 ).

I have never watched Nintendo be so stagnant before. they use to reinvent the the wheel and certain games would cause all gamers to stop and look at Nintendo. they have lost their competitive edge on the console front at least. While their games are indeed polished and play well which is important, they are often very safe and predictable in scope.

and because they are profitable, why should They even bother investing in a major new IP that can be as good as a Mario or Zelda when they can just tweak some of their past franchises and aesthetics?

 

[sublimit]

Are these things gimmicks?

-speaker
-touchpad
-share button
-light bar

Dualshock 3 had none of these things and worked perfectly fine.

Of course they are but Sony is not basing the whole PS4 strategy upon these features.

And they are not as costly as something as the WiiU pad.

 

[Gonff]

I will never understand the appeal of this. I wouldn't want something popping up to tell me something I just did unless it gave me exp in a RPG or something. Or gave me extra lives in a platformer.

I always thought the coins you get on the 3DS from walking and achievements would make a perfect marriage.

Unlock achievement X for 55 coins. For 50 coins in Z's marketplace, you can buy this or that. Don't have enough coins? You can buy it for $1.

 

[Metal B]

Of course they are but Sony is not basing the whole PS4 strategy upon these features.

Yes they do, a specially the share-button.

 

[Raziel]

The way you choose to interpret what is being said

You mean, literally?

 

[sublimit]

Yes they do, a specially the share-button.

Oh come on now,this is hyperbole and you know it.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Are these things gimmicks?

-speaker
-touchpad
-share button
-light bar

Dualshock 3 had none of these things and worked perfectly fine.

Maybe, but Sony also doesn't overemphasize these features. they are there to be used, but they don't make it their centerpiece of their console. Nintendo's strategy revolves around embracing these new additions whether or not we As gamers actually like the additions. That's not exactly the case for Sony.

 

[2+2=5]

Is he saying that nintendo lacks resources/competences/whatever or is afraid to challenge the competitors directly?
Weird because i remember the old nintendo fighting the competitors directly and well, maybe it's not nintendo not being good enough at competing, but its actual and incompetent bosses.

 

[pvpness]

Keep doing what you do Nintendo, just do more of it with consistency. Haters gonna hate and all that. We most certainly don't need another watered down, paywall'd, ad-extravaganza pc on the market, especially one that still wouldn't get meaningful support from third parties.

I'd like to say that eventually people will understand Nintendo's philosophy when it comes to the products they make, but... Kinda had enough time to figure that out already.

 

[MYE]

Absolutely. And so is the backtouch on the Vita.
Even though I love the system, that particular gimmick is not just worthless to me, it even gets in the way in some games to the point of having to turn the thing off in the options. :-/

And I argue that the implementation of a touch screen and speakers on the Gamepad has made it convenient to navigate, type and sketch on Miiverse (for example), offer me more options in terms of gameplay and take advantage of offscreen gameplay without compromising the traditional control scheme everyone loves.

If its giving me more options and making my experience a lot easier, I cant possibly see it as a gimmick. Its added value, therefore an integral feature to the console and how it was designed to function.

Now the 3D on the 3DS is perhaps another story. I could see this argument sticking on that.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Oh come on now,this is hyperbole and you know it.

you are right. The share featureis really mostly being touted as a nice new Addition but it is far from being the centerpiece of the ps4

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

Yeesh at the quotes. Iwata is not oozing confidence, is he? A bit of humility is refreshing in large companies, but this is taking it too far. He's making his company appear to lack confidence at best, and incompetent at worst.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Is he saying that nintendo lacks resources/competences/whatever or is afraid to challenge the competitors directly?
Weird because i remember the old nintendo fighting the competitors directly and well, maybe it's not nintendo not being good enough at competing, but its actual and incompetent bosses.

Nintendo was good at fighting the competition when the competition was other video game companies. Ever since they have had to compete with electronics companies they've faltered.

 

[dcx4610]

Are these things gimmicks?

-speaker
-touchpad
-share button
-light bar

Dualshock 3 had none of these things and worked perfectly fine.

No. They are improvements.

It's no different from Nintendo adding L, R, X and Y to the SNES pad. It's improving upon an existing design.

A gimmick to me is when you build an entire system around a certain feature. With the Wii, motion controls. With the Wii U, a tablet controller. With the Xbox One, Kinect.

 

[willybobo]

When they zig, you zag.

Otherwise we'd just have lots of zig, (PRESS A FOR AWESOME) zig, zig (MORE POLYS).

Innovation doesn't need to be tied to horsepower. Granted, going a different route often results in 'gimmicky' forms of gaming. But that's entirely subjective.

What's not subjective, however, is its newness.

Ninty brings new things to the table. No one can argue otherwise. And I'm referencing their hardware/controller innovations, for anyone who brings up NEWSUPERMARIOU is the same as NEWSUPERMARIOWII is the same as NEWSUPERMARIOBROS2FOR3DS, etc.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Gamecube says Hi

Yes... about 1.5 years after it should have .

 

[Seeds]

And thank god that they do. With both xbone and ps4 lacking in power compared to PCs I would see no reason to buy a console this gen if it wasn't for Nintendo.

 

[MYE]

Oh come on now,this is hyperbole and you know it.

Maybe, but Sony also doesn't overemphasize these features. they are there to be used, but they don't make it their centerpiece of their console. Nintendo's strategy revolves around embracing these new additions whether or not we As gamers actually like the additions. That's not exactly the case for Sony.

But that is the beauty of having different options isn't it?
If you want a system that tackles these extras as undercooked afterthoughts while basically giving you an upgraded experience of what you had before, get a PS4, or an XBOXone.
If you want a system that at its core is designed around certain gameplay mechanics and input methods that make it a different experience, but with more modest innards, you get a Wii U.

Removing the Wii U from the scene would leave us with poor market offering (in terms of variety) of samey machines. We need more options, not fewer.

 

[dcx4610]

Nintendo was good at fighting the competition when the competition was other video game companies. Ever since they have had to compete with electronics companies they've faltered.

They faltered because of internal mistakes. Shunning 3rd party developers and going with cartridges with the N64. Propriety disc format and huge licensing fees for the 3rd party companies on the Gamecube. Weak hardware on the Wii. Weak hardware and confusing strategy with the Wii U.

Nintendo did it to themselves. They have the creativity and power to be #1, they just choose to march to a different drum.

It's like saying Coke can't compete with Pepsi because Pepsi also owns Taco Bell and Pizza Hut. You just have to put out a compelling product that people want and market yourselves better than the rest.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

And thank god that they do. With both xbone and ps4 lacking in power compared to PCs I would see no reason to buy a console this gen if it wasn't for Nintendo.

So... your choice is to buy an even less powerful device that has fewer games? Please. It's cool if you like the Wii U, but come up with better justification that that horse shit.

 

[walking fiend]

It's funny; I just have become to the conclusion that people are just simply salty that both MS and Sony have had utterly no hardware innovation in the last two generations, and almost none even in their software and online infrastructure this generation, and hence are dismissing everything that Nintendo has been doing as gimmick.

 

[HolyBaikal]

Releasing a tablet with a resistive touch screen in 2012 was different alright. Even dirt-cheap $60 tablets from China use capacitive screens now.

Well, I can't defend that practice.

 

[Neuromancer]

It's not a bad idea in theory, but even Nintendo probably realizes they're only going to strike gold about half the time. As long as they have the coffers to float by until they come across 'the next big thing' I assume they'll be OK.

 

[Bluemercury]

Releasing a tablet with a resistive touch screen in 2012 was different alright. Even dirt-cheap $60 tablets from China use capacitive screens now.

Well it's the best resistive screen i've used though.....

 

[Kureransu]

So... your choice is to buy an even less powerful device that has fewer games? Please. It's cool if you like the Wii U, but come up with better justification that that horse shit.

I believe he's saying since most of the games for XB1 and PS4 will be out on PC, he can get the variety he's looking for with a PC and WiiU.

 

[willybobo]

People buy what brings them happiness.

One could argue that a Wii u with but a handful of games could actually be more fun than a ps4/xbone/steambox with a shit ton more games.

All comes down to what brings you joy. How much time you have to 'game'. Whether you prefer local multi vs online FPS-fests. And how brown you like your games, I guess.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Nintendo was good at fighting the competition when the competition was other video game companies. Ever since they have had to compete with electronics companies they've faltered.

Nintendo was good at cornering markets using tactics - such as strong-arming 3rd parties into exclusivity agreements and tightly controlling how the market worked with restrictions on how many games could be published a year.

I wonder what kind of arguments we'd see if NeoGAF had existed in 1991, when the Super Famicom/SNES was released with a weak CPU compared to the Mega Drive/Genesis, and was incapable of running popular games of the day like shoot-em-ups as well as the Sega machine. And direct ports to SNES suffered slowdown and cut features.

The difference was that Nintendo had 3rd parties locked in to themselves. When the Sony era began and the prospect of the modern multi-platform 3rd party world loomed, Nintendo immediately fell down. They didn't compete with Sony directly, and didn't provide a platform that could host the same games (or the same kinds of games) easily or at all.

I dunno. It seems in one sense Iwata's remarks are mostly true. Nintendo doesn't directly compete with anyone else, regardless of core gamers' perceptions today of Nintendo being a direct competitor in the past. They never really were. Their one attempt to release a mostly directly competitive product, the Gamecube, didn't work. (Though the Gamecube was again challenged in terms of compatibility by its non-standard optical media format with low storage capacity.)

 

[Off-Kilter]

A tablet is not something new.

How many other home consoles out there have a tablet controller?

 

[MYE]

No. They are improvements.

It's no different from Nintendo adding L, R, X and Y to the SNES pad. It's improving upon an existing design.

A gimmick to me is when you build an entire system around a certain feature. With the Wii, motion controls. With the Wii U, a tablet controller. With the Xbox One, Kinect.

How are those considered improvements but the Gamepad being a traditional controller with even MORE features can't?

lol

Seriously:
Gamepad: traditional controller + touchscreen + speakers + NFC + offscreen and asymmetric play = Gimmick
Dualshock 4: traditional controller + touch pad + light bar + speaker = Improvements

...how does that work now?

 

[walking fiend]

Releasing a tablet with a resistive touch screen in 2012 was different alright. Even dirt-cheap $60 tablets from China use capacitive screens now.

Such an old argument; there's a reason they are dirt cheap chinese equipment, cause their touch screens are barely usable for UI navigation let alone gaming.

And PSV does have one, but how many games actually use the multitouch capabilities? And do you really believe people could use Sketchpad as properly as they do now with a capacitive touch screen?

Some people just want to complain.

 

[140.85]

What happened to Nintendo's self-confidence? You lost a few times so you're going to give up trying to compete?

 

[willybobo]

Variety is the spice orange Gamecube of life. Please understand.

 

[Brainfreeze]

I just can not comprehend the mindset of the Iwata haters in this thread. It's like they just want to forget everything that happened between the SNES and the Wii U and get angry that the Wii U isn't SNES 2.

The market's changed. Nintendo can't compete the same way they have in the past, and their alternative has proven massively successful and resulted in some of the best games ever made.

The Wii U isn't dead yet. A few mistakes shouldn't damn the entire company. There's no reason for some of you to be as angry and spiteful as you are towards Nintendo. They aren't as dumb as you think.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

How are those considered improvements but the Gamepad being a traditional controller with even MORE features can't?

lol

Seriously:
Gamepad: traditional controller + touchscreen + speakers + NFC + offscreen and asymmetric play = Gimmick
Dualshock 4: traditional controller + touch pad + light bar + speaker = Improvements

...how does that work now?

Because somebody has to win here man

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

This is what I really dislike about Nintendo - that their innovations are forced and artificial. They aren't born from true inspiration, in which someone somewhere had some bold new vision for a game or game design but couldn't be realized by any existing hardware/technology. It's born from guys in suits spitballing and crapping out gimmicks, and then designing games around them. I don't want to play games for 6 years with some gimmicky controller (and with terrible graphics) because some old fogey essentially thought they couldn't do anything better.

Hell, Nintendo barely even does that. The vast majority of their Wii titles could've been done on the Cube because they're just rehashes. In general, Nintendo forced motion control where buttons would've been more precise (see: NSMB Wii) or tacked-on some meaningless new task (see: Mario Galaxy). Boom Blox was a more interesting use of motion controls than anything Nintendo developed.

 

[Seeds]

So... your choice is to buy an even less powerful device that has fewer games? Please. It's cool if you like the Wii U, but come up with better justification that that horse shit.

Why would I buy a WiiU because of its power? My point is that WiiU offers something different, hence a reason to get one. What PS4 and Xbone offer, power, is already outdated compared to what I can get on PC.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

They faltered because of internal mistakes. Shunning 3rd party developers and going with cartridges with the N64. Propriety disc format and huge licensing fees for the 3rd party companies on the Gamecube. Weak hardware on the Wii. Weak hardware and confusing strategy with the Wii U.

Nintendo did it to themselves. They have the creativity and power to be #1, they just choose to march to a different drum.

It's like saying Coke can't compete with Pepsi because Pepsi also owns Taco Bell and Pizza Hut. You just have to put out a compelling product that people want and market yourselves better than the rest.

I didn't say it wasn't Nintendos fault they were failing. I said they failed against electronics companies. Things like hardware, disc formats, and licensing fees are better handled by companies who already understood the practice from other divisions in the company. Nintendo fell behind the times because the landscape of the video game industry changed and Nintendo didn't adapt well. Now they're a video game company in an electronics company jungle.

Also, your analogy is flawed. If Coke didn't own restaurants and Pepsi did, Pepsi would have a distinct advantage because they have more places to sell their product without losing any money. Whereas Coke would have to convince places to carry their product. Someone mentioned the video game equivilant further up the page. Sony undoubtedly makes their consoles at a cheaper rate because of preexisting relationships within the company.

 

[lt519]

What happened to Nintendo's self-confidence? You lost a few times so you're going to give up trying to compete?

A few times? Last time I checked they actually made money on their gaming division last generation. It's more about providing a product that is different, someone mentioned it before, they have to keep looking for that blue ocean so they don't have to compete against companies that can afford to lose money.

Keep doing your thing Nintendo, I already have a PS3 (soon to be PS4) and a gaming rig, I don't need another one that can play the same games. Forever stay a toy company.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

Wow, some seriously hateful posts up in here.

Its a Nintendo thread, why are you shocked.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

This is the reason why Iwata needs to step down from his office.

Nintendo's inability to compete is his fault to being with. He created this situation.