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[Dryk]

Nintendo used to innovated.

Now they think they need to reinvent the wheel when we just need evolution not revolution. No one wants touch controls No one wants Motion controls.

Nintendo used to innovate
Now they innovate

I don't get it

 

[Mik317]

They competed just fine with the NES and SNES. It annoys me to hear them act like they are poor and there's now they can compete with the big boys. They WERE the big boy.

Iwata is a nice guy but he's the biggest problem with Nintendo right now. His vision and direction for the company is a sad state of affairs.

Sony and Ms are more than just gaming companies. Thus they have more backup plans and sources of income. As such if the Xbox fails, MS could just can it and move on (Sony not so much lol) as thwy have a backup plan.

Nintendo can of course survive a few more Wii U bombs but they aren't exactly the same as the other.

ItIt's also funny that they get painted as conservative as the wiu and ds u were pretty risky moves.

Regardless I think people need to accept that Nintendo goes by the beat of their own drum... For better or for worse

 

[Sinfamy]

Nintendo screwed up, they relied on the novelty of the Wii to sell the Wii U. Did they not realize that most people haven't touched their console since playing Wii Sports?

 

[Skilletor]

I'm going to point to this thread whenever people say that GAF only hates MS.

 

[Stet]

Maybe start making something other than consoles then, because it's going to be a competitive marketplace.

 

[Mik317]

The idea that the 3ds is a failure is mind-boggling to me.

I fucking wish the Vita was a failure like that too... Maybe Square would stop bring dicks then

 

[MagiusNecros]

I'm going to point to this thread whenever people say that GAF only hates MS.

NeoGAF hates everyone. It isn't exclusive on any one thing.

 

[gemoran4]

Well then don't try to sell a $350 console. If you are going to sell something that expensive your visuals/features should clearly surpass a 6/7 year old PS3/360 outside of a fancy controller.

Also I think the argument that Nintendo can't compete tech-wise with Sony and 360 is BS.

1) Because they did just that through the GC generation, and there's no proof they couldn't have continued beyond it. They went in a different direction because their home consoles were losing console share by the generation, not because they were unable to offer a similar product hardware-wise at the prices Sony/360 were offering.

2) Their consoles (outside N64) were never the strongest in their generation, and the NES/SNES/PS1/PS2 pretty strongly proved you don't have to have the strongest consoles by the raw numbers to compete. However you do have to be similar/competitive in that aspect, and Nintendo didn't even get close with the Wii U.

Also different isn't always better, and offering similar powered-hardware and some standard features like cross game chat and account system in no way means that they have to offer the exact same product as Sony and Microsoft. There are plenty of directions you can go beyond that point to make your product distinct.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

The idea that the 3ds is a failure is mind-boggling to me.

I fucking wish the Vita was a failure like that too... Maybe Square would stop bring dicks then

You know, is quite possible that Vita will end seeing more SE games thanks to PlayStation Mobile than 3DS. Because after Theatrhythm sequel and, maybe BD 2, we won't see much more games from SE on 3DS.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

They competed just fine with the NES and SNES. It annoys me to hear them act like they are poor and there's no way they can compete with the big boys. They WERE the big boy.

They were the big boys when they were fighting a dying arcade giant, a slot machine company and some toy manufacturers putting in half efforts.

They're now competing with some of the largest media and sooftware companies on the planet. It's a lot different.

 

[MoogleWizard]

I know the tech industry is far too fast moving for Nintendo and they cannot compete with two electronic giants in the tech race anymore, but this is still a terrible thing to say for a CEO. I can't believe he actually said that. And IIRC they are sitting on 10 billion $ of cash, if they wanted to, they could compete a bit better. Still, I think offering something different is a much better approach than releasing a third me-too system to the market, there are already two "twins", that is enough.

And Nintendo actually used to compete very well. NES, SNES, N64 and GC were all great hardware, on par or more powerful than the competition. It was stupid design decisions like cartridges and mini-DVDs that caused them to lose support.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Yes! Because we should all just be the same, and never try anything new.

You clearly did not understand what that pic was saying. I could make a car with square wheels and call it unique. Lesson is that being unique is not always a good thing especially when it results you in having significantly weaker hardware, no third party support and a bad online infrastructure.

The idea that the 3ds is a failure is mind-boggling to me.

I fucking wish the Vita was a failure like that too... Maybe Square would stop bring dicks then

Its by no means a failure but its not living up to Nintendo's expectations. Iirc its tracking behind the PSP hardware and software though not too sure on that.

 

[kurbaan]

I think you are the only person I've ever heard describe playing the wii as magic. How does that even happen? I remember my first time being pure disgust at the lack of 1:1 with the controller after all there boasting, and how horribly ugly Zelda looked on a HD display. Even my family thought something was wrong with the screen because of how ugly the game looked when put next to 360 games they played.

For most regular people (the wiis audience) wii sports was mind blowing and magical.

 

[HolyBaikal]

The idea that the 3ds is a failure is mind-boggling to me.

Over 30 million units sold into only a fraction of the system's life-cycle certainly seems successful to me.

Of course, that's only a fraction of the units that the Nintendo DS sold. But almost nothing in existence can compete with the number of units sold that the Nintendo DS did.

It took around 7 years for the Nintendo DS to sell that much. And was an unprecedented system in terms of sales. Selling far more than the Wii, XBOX 360, and PlayStation 3. Comparatively, the 3DS is much younger, only being released back in 2011, and is already almost half of the way to the amount of the units sold as the XBOX 360.

I wouldn't call that a "failure".

 

[Raziel]

And this is why i love Nintendo, although they could look at what others are doing to improve their own stuff.

But, they are often bold to offer something different and interesting.

Nintendo DS and Wii - i'll never forget the first time i played them. Magic.

This is what I really dislike about Nintendo - that their innovations are forced and artificial. They aren't born from true inspiration, in which someone somewhere had some bold new vision for a game or game design but couldn't be realized by any existing hardware/technology. It's born from guys in suits spitballing and crapping out gimmicks, and then designing games around them. I don't want to play games for 6 years with some gimmicky controller (and with terrible graphics) because some old fogey essentially thought they couldn't do anything better.

 

[MYE]

A tablet is not something new.

Asymmetric gameplay on a home console is

This is what I really dislike about Nintendo - that their innovations are forced and artificial. They aren't born from true inspiration, in which someone somewhere had some bold new vision for a game or game design but couldn't be realized by any existing hardware/technology. It's born from guys in suits spitballing and crapping out gimmicks, and then designing games around them. I don't want to play games for 6 years with some gimmicky controller (and with terrible graphics) because some old fogey essentially thought they couldn't do anything better.

Is this pulled straight from the ass or did you base these accusations in reality?
I'll be waiting for links that prove they had no vision and DS, Wii, Wii U are the result of suits being suits.

 

[MissDeviling]

Say what you will, but I'm really glad Nintendo holds true to their mission statement of providing unique gaming experiences at fairly low costs. If they simply went with the flow, everyone would just be competing on the basis of pure hardware power. Nintendo effectively changes the gaming industry with its innovations, and really has contributed so much. I'm glad I was able to play fantastic games like The World Ends with You, Elite Beat Agents, Etrian Odyssey and other games with "gimmicky" controls. Playing with a controller is great, but for a single company to innovate the gaming industry with touch and motion controls allowed me to have some really fun experiences.

I hope Nintendo doesn't become like just another gaming company. We need different approaches to gaming to inject creativity among developers.

 

[Schnozberry]

I don't disagree, but the key is more that innovation is constantly wasted on franchises people have already written off. It's a shame. Nintendo makes really good games with solid mechanics and new ideas. But because they refuse to create any new IP, it gets ignored by people who've already decided they don't want to play Mario or Zelda. It's certainly not a problem exclusive to them, but it certainly doesn't help when they're not actively competing in other arenas.

I think that may be just how they operate. They have some of the most recognizable IP in the world, and they tend to adapt new concepts to fit their existing IP. I dont think it's the best approach all the time myself, but then again, I'm not responsible for making sure a lot of people hold onto jobs and feed their families. It does seem like 2014 could be ripe for some new Nintendo IP, though. They haven't announced much beyond a few core titles.

One thing you can say for Iwata is that he hasn't fired anybody despite Nintendo's declining sales performance, and he seems to genuinely care about the prestige of the Nintendo brand. There are probably some more radical CEO's that would have already been laying people off by the hundreds and hitting the panic button, but Iwata decided to stay the course and let his software teams try and rescue Wii U, all while taking the heat from armchair quarterbacks and shareholders onto himself. That's leadership and strength, no matter what GAF wants to say about him. Iwata is a good man.

 

[Gonff]

Nintendo is having trouble finding developers to tack on Wii U projects. The idea of whether or not developers will support something like the Gamepad should have been the first question asked and answered when designing the Wii U.

Anecdotal I know, but in my experience, the WiiPad is not even on the list of barriers repelling developers from making Wii U games. It is one of the only features pulling people in.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Say what you will, but I'm really glad Nintendo holds true to their mission statement of providing unique gaming experiences at fairly low costs. If they simply went with the flow, everyone would just be competing on the basis of pure hardware power. Nintendo effectively changes the gaming industry with its innovations, and really has contributed so much. I'm glad I was able to play fantastic games like The World Ends with You, Elite Beat Agents, Etrian Odyssey and other games with "gimmicky" comtrols. Playing with a controller is great, but for a single company to innovate the gaming industry with touch and motion controls allowed me to have some really fun experiences.

I hope Nintendo doesn't become like just another gaming company. We need different approaches to gaming to inject creativity among developers.

wat?

 

[xandaca]

talk about selective quoting!

They sold out their hardcore long term fans for casuals.

That's absolute crap. The Wii had two Zeldas, the Mario Galaxy games, Metroid Prime 3 and Trilogy, Punch Out!, DKCR, Fire Emblem, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, one of the best NSMB games, Xenoblade, Sin & Punishment... in other words strong-to-outstanding entries in nearly all their big franchises and several of their smaller ones. The lack of Starfox and F-Zero against the existence of Wii Music doesn't mean the 'core' (urgh) were abandoned... if anything, they were courted far more than the 'casual' audience, who barely received a handful of first party games (Wii Sports/Play/Motion, Fit, Music). Hell, there were even plenty of strong third-party exclusives in-between all the drivel. Just because IGN told you the Wii was a 'casual' machine doesn't make it so, I'm afraid.

 

[thefro]

Even though it may be true, it's probably not something that the head of Nintendo should be saying. Sure we've seen them succeed by being different but I think they could also succeed if they competed and did a better job than the competition. Typically though, Nintendo doesn't do those things better. They should try to change that.

I'm pretty sure something was lost in the English translation of what Iwata was saying. I doubt he was saying "we can't compete with anyone".

 

[Shion]

The thing is that we don't live in either 1985 or 2006 anymore.

In this day and age, Nintendo doesn’t have the luxury to monopolize any kind of market, no matter what they choose, they will have to face fierce competition.

In core gaming, they'll have to face Sony and Microsoft.

In casual gaming, the competition is even fiercer, as they'll have to face Apple, Google, Microsoft as well as thousands of browser games.

So they better deal with it.

 

[Raziel]

Asymmetric gameplay on a home console is




Is this pulled straight from the ass or did you base these accusations in reality?

It's based on the software they put out, how the gimmicks are integrated, how much worth or value they bring to the table, and on Iwata's latest statement, so I guess, reality.

 

[Zombie James]

Releasing a tablet with a resistive touch screen in 2012 was different alright. Even dirt-cheap $60 tablets from China use capacitive screens now.

 

[Beermeister]

That's absolute crap.

The truth always hurts.

 

[MYE]

Nintendo screwed up, they relied on the novelty of the Wii to sell the Wii U. Did they not realize that most people haven't touched their console since playing Wii Sports?[

Really? lol

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

I don't know. Everytime Nintendo speaks it's like they are making excuses to why they can't take responsibility for the position they are in. If they don't want to compete, then why not at least adhere to industry standards while approaching something different. It's makes it much more ignorant than forward thinking and unique. Just looking at the infrastructure structure alone for Nintendo is what bugs me. For every new idea Nintendo goes forward with, everything else that matters is always 2 years behind.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Keep on Iwata-ing, Iwata. I love the man and, while Wii U's first year has been downright tragic, I like the vision he has for Nintendo.

Rock on Iwata-san.

Edit for fun: I think what amuses me about the "Fire Iwata" squad is that they're pouting children who are pissed that Nintendo isn't living up to their ideals of game companies. I'm most certainly disappointed with the general state of the home console side of things right now, but god damn, are these people sour about Nintendo not being good old fashioned Nintendo.

 

[MYE]

It's based on the software they put out, how the gimmicks are integrated, and how much worth or value they bring to the table, so I guess, reality.

So you got nothing. You built a fantasy backstory based on your opinion of their software and hardware.
Ok

 

[chaosblade]

Releasing a tablet with a resistive touch screen in 2012 was different alright. Even dirt-cheap $60 tablets from China use capacitive screens now.

Wasn't there a topic recently that showed touchscreen response time, and Nintendo's screens were faster than smartphones and tablets? Especially the DS IIRC. Might have been in OT though.

 

[Beer Monkey]

The NES was good at competing with the SMS, Atari 7800, and several 8-bit computers that were largely being used as game systems at the time.

The SNES as able to overcome a MASSIVE lead by the Sega Genesis.

So Nintendo was once good at competing.

Fire Iwata.

 

[Raziel]

So you got nothing. You built a fantasy backstory based on your opinion of their software and hardware.
Ok

Yeah, I mean, here is this Iwata guy coming out and saying "we had to come up with these gimmicks because we're not good at competing" but sure, I've built myself a fantasy. Ok.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Nintendo can't compete because it can't do the whole selling at a massive loss thing. Not because they don't have the brain power to just shove more video cards into it.
The way they designed the Wii U (USB ports aside) shows that they could design a powerful console, they just can't afford to BUILD one. And sell it for anything that anyone would feel was a fair price.
They don't do multimedia and "Nintendo Network GOLD" sort of shit so they can't subsidize it as heavily, and, as seen with the Gamecube, even with the right amount of power 3rd parties tell them to fuck off.

So no, they really just can't. Simple as that.

This would have made sense in the PS3/360 era but not now. PS4 is profitable with one game and XB1 is profitable from day one. Nintendo lives off of it's first party software so they could easily make back any money lost off of that(if it isn't too huge). PS4 is selling at a loss(around 60$iirc), that's nothing when you consider the attach rate between Nintendo consoles and Nintendo made software. Hell, look at the attach rate of NSMBU and WiiU and tell me that Nintendo couldn't have afforded to ditch the gamepad and custom PPC architecture and make an X86 console that's at least on par with XB1? The days of super duper high end 600$ consoles with 300$ losses are over, Nintendo can compete now.

 

[dark10x]

Yep, Nintendo was once the master of competition. To suggest that Nintendo has never been about competing is a bold faced lie on the part of Iwata.

Things changed under his lead, and he's definitely found some success, but now they're just being overly stubborn.

 

[leakey]

I'm a company who wants to compete but don't think I can compete so I must....wtf am I reading?

 

[Beermeister]

Really? lol

I you only knew...

 

[daxgame]

Thats bullshit.

The NES was similar to every other console.

So was the SNES.

So was the N64 bar carts

So was the GC bar the shit control pad.

This loser attitude only came about with the Wii and Iwata's rise.

Nintendo need to lose him quick time! He's sending Nintendo to their doom starting with the WiiU...probably the most pathetic console they've released since the Virtual Boy!

this is so false that I don't even
thankfully some people already answered.

I'll just pick one of my favourites: Donkeeey Kongaa!

 

[mdtauk]

Nintendo is a toy and playing card company who has expanded into selling videogame hardware and software.

Microsoft is a behemoth software and services company, with device and studio divisions making entertainment hardware that runs it's direct X and OS platforms.

Sony is a huge electronics (and insurance) business, which makes a couple of gaming platforms running on it's hardware and owns studios who make software/games.


Unless Nintendo were to be amalgamated/merged with another business making money to help support the game side - Preferably an electronics company so that expertise and production facilities can support the kind of high end tech research needed to develop high end hardware at cost effective levels. - They will remain a smaller player, with limited resources, trying to make an impact in a huge market, coalescing around a duopoly. (The same position Microsoft is in with Windows Phone compared to Android and iOS)

 

[sublimit]

Please Nintendo no more gimmicks.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

This would have made sense in the PS3/360 era but not now. PS4 is profitable with one game and XB1 is profitable from day one. Nintendo lives off of it's first party software so they could easily make back any money lost off of that(if it isn't too huge). PS4 is selling at a loss(around 60$iirc), that's nothing when you consider the attach rate between Nintendo consoles and Nintendo made software. Hell, look at the attach rate of NSMBU and WiiU and tell me that Nintendo couldn't have afforded to ditch the gamepad and custom PPC architecture and make an X86 console that's at least on par with XB1? The days of super duper high end 600$ consoles with 300$ losses are over, Nintendo can compete now.

I think people are deluding themselves if they think Nintendo can't do a hardware like PS4 for more or less the same price. But instead is was a conscious choice: they choosed a pricey controller and retrocompatibility over anything else.

IMO it was a wrong choice and is actually showing. I wonder what Nintendo do for their next console.

 

[Beermeister]

I wonder what Nintendo do for their next console.

With Iwata at the helm. Something stupid, I'm sure.

 

[Zombie James]

Please Nintendo no more gimmicks.

Depends on now long Iwata sticks around.

 

[MYE]

Yeah, I mean, here is this Iwata guy coming out and saying "we had to come up with these gimmicks because we're not good at competing" but sure, I've built myself a fantasy. Ok.

Because thats what he said right. Because not competing with the established offerings in the market means you are compensating with gimmicks, and the only way to truly validate a product is to try and 1up whatever your competitor is doing.
Wow, what a boring, grey, stagnant world view to have

 

[mclem]

But because they refuse to create any new IP, it gets ignored by people who've already decided they don't want to play Mario or Zelda.

The problem I have is that this attitude to gaming is *so* antithetical to how my mind works, I don't comprehend it!

From my standpoint, it's like refusing to watch, say, The Truman Show - even if you broadly like the themes it presents - because you didn't like some previous Jim Carrey films. It's prejudice, and it's closed-mindedness, and it's completely opposed to how I approach things as a gamer.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Asymmetric gameplay on a home console is




Is this pulled straight from the ass or did you base these accusations in reality?
I'll be waiting for links that prove they had no vision and DS, Wii, Wii U are the result of suits being suits.

We've had asymmetric gameplay a long time ago. Local co-op and online play all have asymmetric gameplay where different players can play different roles. Its hardly anything novel or a stand out feature to market a console on.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Did the PS2 and OG Xbox support dual layer DVD's? Also, most games of the period were not difficult to fit on GC discs, unless you had seriously long FMV sequences.

Yeah, there were a number of dual layer games for the PS2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_2_DVD-9_games

I think that Nintendo should've been looking to not put unnecessary hurdles in front of developers after the N64. It's not like they couldn't have known that DVD's were going to be the standard for that generation. Especially after Sega received a lot of criticisms and questions for choosing GD-Roms for the Dreamcast. That was only 1.2gb, so the GC was just a small step up from that.

 

[MYE]

Please Nintendo no more gimmicks.

Are these things gimmicks?

-speaker
-touchpad
-share button
-light bar

Dualshock 3 had none of these things and worked perfectly fine.

 

[meppi]

Wow, some seriously hateful posts up in here.

Do you expect anything else from an Iwata thread?

These haven't been worth reading for a long time now due to the vitriol and trolling that always goes on in them.

Are these things gimmicks?

Absolutely. And so is the backtouch on the Vita.
Even though I love the system, that particular gimmick is not just worthless to me, it even gets in the way in some games to the point of having to turn the thing off in the options. :-/

 

[MYE]

We've had asymmetric gameplay a long time ago. Local co-op and online play all have asymmetric gameplay where different players can play different roles. Its hardly anything novel or a stand out feature to market a console on.

I dont think you know what asymmetric gameplay means