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[Warm Machine]

I think I wrote what Iwata just said a day or two ago. They don't like to compete.

This puts them at a disadvantage because they won't build a Skyrim, GTA, Forza, or Halo because they don't have the core competency or understanding to do these sorts of games. If they want to compete in the larger console game market without the assistance of 3rd parties they would have to begin building these sorts of games and more. They would need to be knocking out or straight up paying for mainline sports games to encourage Xbox and Playstation gamers to jump the fence. It isn't going to happen.

So what is Nintendo to do in such a deficit? I personally think they should be chasing a creativity market with games like Animal Crossing, Minecraft, Modnation Racers, Trials, Project Spark, Little Big Planet, etc. with wide audience Nintendo sensibilities. Still crank out a good Mario, Zelda, and Metroid but try to make them not so damn obvious. Build around creation tools. They used to be so good at tools like Mario Paint and they used to be so wise about grabbing and porting interesting games like Tetris and Simcity.

 

[DCharlie]

Iwata is insanely likable - he still carries a lot of kudos from the incredible TGS speech of years ago - he's clearly passionate at a base level about gaming and , whilst i think in some areas Nintendo have lost their way, the reversal of the 3DS's fortunes shouldn't be lost in the cross-noise of a (currently) misfiring WiiU.

Software though can always turn a situation - and a price adjustment may help. But all it takes is one killer idea. Whilst i'm personally disappointed that we've not seen the WiiU's functions put to better use, there's still scope for that one killer title.

I'd personally like to see Iwata pull out of this - on one level simply because i've invested in a WiiU and Nintendo HD games are -still- Nintendo HD games, no matter what and -secondly- because i like the guy and i'd like to see him still be a part of the industry as the front man at Nintendo.

 

[RedSwirl]

Iwata's kinda right. Even if they can directly compete, it's no guarantee of third party support. And judging by KaiDragon's post, Nintendo has never held the third party tactics that most publishers probably see as standard coming from Sony and Microsoft today. It's actually slightly baffling that Nintendo seemingly hasn't figured that out.

Right now I feel like Nintendo really wants to be a trend-setter, not a follower, like they traditionally have been when it comes to control interfaces. They're probably gonna keep trying stuff until they get a new control interface that works and becomes a standard again, and land another hit that opens a bit of a new market like Wii Sports and Brain Age did for a while.

I think Nintendo just needs to be cautious in that pursuit. Stuff like the tablet controller and Wii Remote were either too drastic a change or too expensive. I think the stuff Nintendo did popularize: analog sticks, touch screens on handhelds, shoulder buttons, etc., worked because they had a big impact on gameplay without having a big physical impact on the controller or the cost of the console. Also, they worked because Nintendo had killer app games lined up that were designed around them (or vice versa).

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Its a Nintendo thread, why are you shocked.

try going into a vita or xb1 thread, it's much worse

 

[onipex]

What is Iawat saying that is wrong ? When Nintendo went head to head with Sega they lost a lot of market share. When they went head to head with Sony they lost a lot of market share. When they went for a new audience they gained tons of market share.

Also why are people still acting like the Wii U's main problem is it lacks power and that's why it's not selling or getting third party support. It's not selling because the games aren't selling the console. Nintendo screwed up the launch and delivering the software in a timely manner along with getting enough third parties and indies on board to support the console in its first year. Thirds parties also aren't going to bother since the sales are so bad now. While the software is starting to roll out now it could be too late to recover but we'll know for sure in the next few months.

 

[2+2=5]

Nintendo was good at fighting the competition when the competition was other video game companies. Ever since they have had to compete with electronics companies they've faltered.

It's not games vs electronics, videogames ARE electronics.
Markets always change, a company can't be struck in the past if it doesn't to fail, it has to follow the stream giving people what they want, people wants multimedia, account systems etc, this is the gaming console market today, if nintendo really wants to make only games(and i don't think so) then it should leave the hardware market and making only the software.

 

[Otakumegane]

More than their next console, it'll be their next handheld that really shows what their mindset it heading towards.

 

[walking fiend]

Hell, Nintendo barely even does that. The vast majority of their Wii titles could've been done on the Cube because they're just rehashes. In general, Nintendo forced motion control where buttons would've been more precise (see: NSMB Wii) or tacked-on some meaningless new task (see: Mario Galaxy). Boom Blox was a more interesting use of motion controls than anything Nintendo developed.

Yeah, like Wii Sports.

Sorry bro, but Nintendo just doesn't publish games for cave dweller hardcore gamers.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

Why would I buy a WiiU because of its power? My point is that WiiU offers something different, hence a reason to get one. What PS4 and Xbone offer, power, is already outdated compared to what I can get on PC.

But what is so different about what they offer? They have a few key franchises that are primarily plarformers, a kart racer, and a whatever-the-Hell-SSB-is. This kind of post operates under the assumption that the PS4 and Xbox One do not have a wide range of genres represented in their software libraries. Your post also assumes that power is the only reason to buy the other next gen consoles.

Loving Nintendo franchises is indeed enough to justify purchasing a Wii U, but it shouldn't be an excuse to downplay what the other consoles have to offer.

 

[prag16]

Releasing a tablet with a resistive touch screen in 2012 was different alright. Even dirt-cheap $60 tablets from China use capacitive screens now.

Erroneous drive-by.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Evertone knows this. Its the reason wii went for disruptive technology. Call it moving goal posts if you want. I can appreciate the honesty, but man thats a defeatist mindset.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Loving Nintendo franchises is indeed enough to justify purchasing a Wii U, but it shouldn't be an excuse to downplay what the other consoles have to offer.

Why get the consoles if PC generally gets most of the 3rd party software Sony and Microsoft generally rely on? They have their own exclusives sure but it all depends if an individual cares about them.

One of Nintendo's strengths is that their software will only be on Nintendo systems.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

It's not games vs electronics, videogames ARE electronics.
Markets always change, a company can't be struck in the past if it doesn't to fail, it has to follow the stream giving people what they want, people wants multimedia, account systems etc, this is the gaming console market today, if nintendo really wants to make only games(and i don't think so) then it should leave the hardware market and making only the software.

Video games are electronics but like you said, video game consoles these days aren't just about video games. Nintendo is just about video games, you can tell because of how badly they trip and fall at nearly every aspect of the industry not related to video games.

The video game industry is an entirely different beast then it was back when Nintendo was dominant, and the way it shifted is more beneficial to companies that have more under their umbrella then video games.

Nintendo isn't the type of company that has the expertise to make a console like Sony and Microsoft are making, so they have to rely on trying to change how video games are played to get peoples attention. Sometimes it works, some times it doesn't. That doesn't mean how they're trying to do business is inherently wrong.

 

[megabytecr]

A tablet is not something new.

TV Console Dual screen gaming and asymmetric gameplay is.

 

[popeutlal]

Even if they've given up competing in hardware race, they're still able to compete in software...but they aren't doing that either. Too few games are being released for Wii U, 2nd half of the year is great, but next year we'll be back to waiting for the games to be released.

They could expand their western development, no interest in doing that either.

 

[Seeds]

But what is so different about what they offer? They have a few key franchises that are primarily plarformers, a kart racer, and a whatever-the-Hell-SSB-is. This kind of post operates under the assumption that the PS4 and Xbox One do not have a wide range of genres represented in their software libraries. Your post also assumes that power is the only reason to buy the other next gen consoles.

Loving Nintendo franchises is indeed enough to justify purchasing a Wii U, but it shouldn't be an excuse to downplay what the other consoles have to offer.

I don't care about different franchises as much as I care about different ways to play games. Yeah, I'll get a wide range of genres on Xbone and PS4, but I'll be able to play that wide range of genres in exactly the same way on a PC, and probably with more options.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

try going into a vita or xb1 thread, it's much worse

Heh, its about the same..Im starting to think the consoles I like are bad because of it.

 

[RAWi]

What I get from most of the posts on this thread is that...

People don't like evolution. Don't want to play something different. And don't want to take on some innovation or ways of playing that may enhance the experience.

Just graphics and power updates are good.

Interesing !

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I dont think you know what asymmetric gameplay means

lmao

Its not hard mate. Asymmetric means not identical. Put it next to the word gameplay and what does it mean? Gameplay that is not identical for each player.

 

[Shmuely Bully]

When you go for uniqueness/gimmicks and it works spectacularly well three times in a row (3DS price error aside), then why wouldn't they try that approach again? It's easy to be captain hindsight, but when WiiU began development, there was no reason for Nintendo to not believe it would work again.

The 3DS' inclusion of 3D was and is almost entirely irrelevant to its success or lack thereof. If anything it has harmed the system by increasing the BoM (which helped lead to the higher pricing/Nintendo's losses). Given how quickly they've abandoned that feature with the 2DS it would be silly to argue that it played any role.

I'd even argue that the DS while helped by the novelty of its second screen was helped far more by being the next Nintendo handheld and having a large, persist price advantage over the PSP.

The Wii was the only one of the bunch that caught lightning in a bottle right from day one and the pricing certainly helped it as well. Nintendo were fools for thinking that lightning would strike twice without decent advertising and at a much higher price.

 

[Brera]

That's absolute crap. The Wii had two Zeldas, the Mario Galaxy games, Metroid Prime 3 and Trilogy, Punch Out!, DKCR, Fire Emblem, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, one of the best NSMB games, Xenoblade, Sin & Punishment... in other words strong-to-outstanding entries in nearly all their big franchises and several of their smaller ones. The lack of Starfox and F-Zero against the existence of Wii Music doesn't mean the 'core' (urgh) were abandoned... if anything, they were courted far more than the 'casual' audience, who barely received a handful of first party games (Wii Sports/Play/Motion, Fit, Music). Hell, there were even plenty of strong third-party exclusives in-between all the drivel. Just because IGN told you the Wii was a 'casual' machine doesn't make it so, I'm afraid.

Have you forgotten their xmas hardcore offering....animal crossing? Nintendo died that xmas for me.

 

[Lumyst]

Hasn't Iwata been translated as saying "Cannot compete" also? I'm guessing what he means in Japanese is in the middle. If they compete the same way as before then they'll get the same results as before. If they want potentially greater results than the other guys they have to do something different compared to the other guys. Of course Microsoft and Sony have vast resources at their disposal that Nintendo doesn't have, so that could be where "cannot compete" against those resources comes from.

 

[BPoole]

Then stop competing and become a software company!

That's what I think NIntendo should do. If their games released on PS4/PC, I would buy a lot of them. I'm just not going to go out and spend $300+ dollars for another box to sit under my TV when I'm only going to play 5-6 games throughout the entire gen on it.

 

[zruben]

well, I'm glad nintendo it's still doing their "thing"... that's what I love about that company...

however, I'm realistic enough to realize that their filosophy is not going to make them "win" this generation...

I love my 3DS and the WiiU is looking better and better... but right now, Nintendo is for a niche audience (which I'm proud to be part of)

also, since the N64/PS1 era... it's really stupid to only own ONE console or "stay loyal" to one brand. You're missing a lot of good things if you're a fanboy.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

I must be crazy, but did I read a post here stating that the PS4 and XboxOne are going to be profitable on day one? Yeah, no. No, no, no,no, no,no, no,no, no.

 

[2+2=5]

Video games are electronics but like you said, video game consoles these days aren't just about video games. Nintendo is just about video games, you can tell because of how badly they trip and fall at nearly every aspect of the industry not related to video games.

The video game industry is an entirely different beast then it was back when Nintendo was dominant, and the way it shifted is more beneficial to companies that have more under their umbrella then video games.

Nintendo isn't the type of company that has the expertise to make a console like Sony and Microsoft are making, so they have to rely on trying to change how video games are played to get peoples attention. Sometimes it works, some times it doesn't. That doesn't mean how they're trying to do business is inherently wrong.

It means that they don't want to spend money on the necessary research and development like others companies do when the market imposes changes imo, and nintendo is the one that gained the most money this gen.

 

[xandaca]

Have you forgotten their xmas hardcore offering....animal crossing? Nintendo died that xmas for me.

I'm not saying they did nothing wrong... the entirely barren final year was a disaster and only one among many game droughts. Those are (unfortunately) par for course for anyone who has owned any Nintendo console though, and just shows that Nintendo once again staggered their releases terribly, not that they were favouring one audience over another. By contrast, the second half of 2010 had Super Mario Galaxy 2, DKCR, Super Mario 25th Anniversary, Sin & Punishment 2 and Metroid: Other M (it may not have turned out so well, but was still a 'core'-focused game). Kirby's Epic Yarn in the States as well, I think. As with everything Nintendo, it's fits and starts. Some years are great, others utterly bereft.

 

[lt519]

That's what I think NIntendo should do. If their games released on PS4/PC, I would buy a lot of them. I'm just not going to go out and spend $300+ dollars for another box to sit under my TV when I'm only going to play 5-6 games throughout the entire gen on it.

Different peoples. 5-6 games is entirely worth a $300 purchase for me (and to be fair their consoles typically have way more than 5-6 Nintendo IPs that are worth purchasing).

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

I must be crazy, but did I read a post here stating that the PS4 and XboxOne are going to be profitable on day one? Yeah, no. No, no, no,no, no,no, no,no, no.

Xbox One is selling at a profit or breaking even at launch. PS4 is selling for it's lowest loss ever ($60), which they said will be made back by a game sale.

 

[scoobs]

The sign of any good company is their ability to not compete..... what a joke. Nintendo is run by a bunch of crazies

 

[captmcblack]

Nintendo historically doesn't outright "compete". They don't make boxes that are exactly the same as the other boxes on the market.

They compete with other game publishers and game makers...at making and publishing games, and machines that play them. That's it. They can't be Microsoft or Sony, dealing in cloud services and cutting-edge internally-designed microprocessing paradigms and operating systems and whathaveyou. They can't make their own streaming music/video services. They can't create their own media standards. They can't make their own display standards. These other companies are gigantic conglomerates that happen to have a division that may also develop trojan horse set-top service boxes that also play games. Nintendo literally only makes games, and machines that play them. That's all they've done since the 1800s.

Why would anyone think they meant anything aside from that?

 

[Zombie James]

I must be crazy, but did I read a post here stating that the PS4 and XboxOne are going to be profitable on day one? Yeah, no. No, no, no,no, no,no, no,no, no.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-recoup-playstation-4-hardware-loss-at-launch

PS4 + Game and PS+ = Profit.

 

[mclem]

It means that they don't want to spend money on the necessary research and development like others companies do when the market imposes changes imo, and nintendo is the one that gained the most money this gen.

"Nintendo is the one that gained the most money this gen" is true, but it ignores that Microsoft and Sony are able to sustain some pretty massive losses in the name of controlling the living room. Nintendo could always be outspent.

Plus, of course, spending is one thing; making a profit on that expenditure is very different. For the others, controlling the living room reaps benefits that eclipse the losses they're undertaking. Nintendo doesn't have that bonus potential revenue stream.

 

[Nightstick11]

Guys.

Nintendo just came out of a generation where they sold 250 million+ hardware units, with one year of the peak of the Wii generating more profit than the PS2+PS1+PS3+Xbox+Xbox 360 in their lifetimes.

Somehow I think they'll be ok.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

It means that they don't want to spend money on the necessary research and development like others companies do when the market imposes changes imo, and nintendo is the one that gained the most money this gen.

If Nintendo made the most money I don't see how you can say their business strategy isn't sound. Those changes were imposed before this gen started and Nintendo is still making money. They may not have done it in the most conventional way, but they did it.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

What I get from most of the posts on this thread is that...

People don't like evolution. Don't want to play something different. And don't want to take on some innovation or ways of playing that may enhance the experience.

Just graphics and power updates are good.

Interesing !

No, many people simply don't consider playing the same old games with a new input device to be innovative.

 

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

What happened to Nintendo's self-confidence? You lost a few times so you're going to give up trying to compete?

Starting to believe this honestly. What company outright admits that it can't compete with its direct competitors? I like Iwata but Nintendo needs new leadership if that's the mentality that they're going to take going forward. It's one of the reasons the Wii U isn't where it needs to be right now which is a shame because it's a damn good console.

 

[big_erk]

Absolutely. And so is the backtouch on the Vita.

Love my Vita to death, but everytime I look at it I wonder WTF at the back touch pad. I don't know, maybe somewhere down the line we'll get a bunch of games that use it smartly, but I think it will probably end up being something that just added to the cost of the Vita.

 

[zma1013]

Nintendo historically doesn't outright "compete". They don't make boxes that are exactly the same as the other boxes on the market.

They compete with other game publishers and game makers...at making and publishing games, and machines that play them. That's it. They can't be Microsoft or Sony, dealing in cloud services and cutting-edge internally-designed microprocessing paradigms and operating systems and whathaveyou. They can't make their own streaming music/video services. They can't create their own media standards. They can't make their own display standards. These other companies are gigantic conglomerates that happen to have a division that may also develop trojan horse set-top service boxes that also play games. Nintendo literally only makes games, and machines that play them. That's all they've done since the 1800s.

Why would anyone think they meant anything aside from that?

Since the Wii they have been offering more than just gaming boxes though. Ever since the inclusion of services like Netflix and features like the Weather and News.

 

[PhantomR]

I think I wrote what Iwata just said a day or two ago. They don't like to compete.

This puts them at a disadvantage because they won't build a Skyrim, GTA, Forza, or Halo because they don't have the core competency or understanding to do these sorts of games. If they want to compete in the larger console game market without the assistance of 3rd parties they would have to begin building these sorts of games and more. They would need to be knocking out or straight up paying for mainline sports games to encourage Xbox and Playstation gamers to jump the fence. It isn't going to happen.

So what is Nintendo to do in such a deficit? I personally think they should be chasing a creativity market with games like Animal Crossing, Minecraft, Modnation Racers, Trials, Project Spark, Little Big Planet, etc. with wide audience Nintendo sensibilities. Still crank out a good Mario, Zelda, and Metroid but try to make them not so damn obvious. Build around creation tools. They used to be so good at tools like Mario Paint and they used to be so wise about grabbing and porting interesting games like Tetris and Simcity.

..........


This is actually a damn good post. Actual interesting, thought-provoking, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism of some things Nintendo can do to improve. That's a rarity here on gaf. Nintendo's initiative regarding indie developers will help push some of this, but overall I agree.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

I don't care about different franchises as much as I care about different ways to play games. Yeah, I'll get a wide range of genres on Xbone and PS4, but I'll be able to play that wide range of genres in exactly the same way on a PC, and probably with more options.

What unique control mechanism does the Wii U offer? Dual screen play is not unique to the U.

 

[cyberheater]

TV Console Dual screen gaming and asymmetric gameplay is.

Yep. Two amazing features that the general public love causing sales to go through the roof.

 

[Jomjom]

Stop patting yourself on the back. There is nothing innovative about that tablet (I'm loathe to even call it a tablet because no tablet on the market, even the bootleg Chinese ones use that poor of a touchscreen).

 

[nikatapi]

I think you are the only person I've ever heard describe playing the wii as magic. How does that even happen? I remember my first time being pure disgust at the lack of 1:1 with the controller after all there boasting, and how horribly ugly Zelda looked on a HD display. Even my family thought something was wrong with the screen because of how ugly the game looked when put next to 360 games they played.

I guess this is the benefit of having a CRT television.
And i spent thousands of hours having fun with Wii Sports with my family and friends.

 

[Forgottonone]

Ever thought about offering something unique on top of what others offer?

have you seen the clusterfuck that is ps4 and xbone? It's messy

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Yep. Two amazing features that the general public love causing sales to go through the roof.

Considering a lot of other video game companies are taking these ideas and running with them I don't know what your point is. The problem with the Wii U is the lack of compelling software, not the functionality that the system offers.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. If this is Nintendo's mentality they need to either go the way of SEGA (in a more succesful fashion) and just focus on games OR focus on the handheld department which is where they're still selling strong.

 

[sfried]

This loser attitude only came about with the Wii and Iwata's rise.

Nintendo need to lose him quick time! He's sending Nintendo to their doom starting with the WiiU...probably the most pathetic console they've released since the Virtual Boy!

Quick, bring back Yamauchi from the dead!

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. If this is Nintendo's mentality they need to either go the way of SEGA (in a more succesful fashion) and just focus on games OR focus on the handheld department which is where they're still selling strong.

I wouldn't mind a handheld focused Nintendo (love my 3DS), and then they could still make console titles for the other platforms. They'd probably rake in the cash.

 

[Forgottonone]

Quick, bring back Yamauchi from the dead!

IWATA is one of the best bosses in the entire world. He's good at what he does.