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[Oersted]

The iPhone happened to Vita.

Sony's portables have always been great kit, but Apple and Samsung have taken their market away. There was probably nothing Sony could have done to prevent that.

So basically both companies did a product noone asked for, but only Nintendos leadership should draw consequences? How so?

 

[antonz]

This is not a new statement rom Nintendo in any shape or form its simply worded differently then how they have stated it in the past.

Nintendo cannot compete in the sense their development studios make games in a very specific way for a wide audience. Even if they made a 600 dollar powerhouse it would not change the perception of Nintendo as the family company.

3rd Parties sabotage their chances of success on Nintendo plaforms as often as they can and its just a perpetual cycle each gen

 

[Gonff]

A tablet is not something new.

That was in the process of being designed before the big tablet boom.

The WiiPad is one of the best devices I've ever touched, not only as a dev but as a user.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

You mean 2-3 years ago, when Nintendo stopped supporting the Wii?

When I found the SW situation dire, yes. The Wii wasn't on fire all the time outside of the casual sales but it certainly did have some games in the best years like Mario Galaxy. Let's not pretend it had the best SW lineup though because it was far from that and that's why it always collected dust. This isn't some unique thing to me as well but as I noted, the party was over a while ago and you see it reflecting in sales. It just took longer because of the lightning in a bottle Nintendo caught with the casual market.

Let's compare it to the PS2, the best selling console ever. Sony didn't just win the casual/mainstream with the broad variety. They continually produced great games and so did the 3rd parties. This did not happen for Nintendo thus me stating the success wasn't as warranted based on the dire SW situation but that's why I've gone through some extent to explain why the success the Wii had was not necessarily due to them having the best games (they never did with Wii).

 

[The Technomancer]

Thats bullshit.

The NES was similar to every other console.

So was the SNES.

So was the N64 bar carts

So was the GC bar the shit control pad.

This loser attitude only came about with the Wii and Iwata's rise.

Nintendo need to lose him quick time! He's sending Nintendo to their doom starting with the WiiU...probably the most pathetic console they've released since the Virtual Boy!

Notice the sales trend, especially on those last two

 

[clemenx]

Their software output is unique enough imo.

 

[DragonSworne]

Nintendo's next console better have motion control with a Virtual Reality headset.

But knowing Nintendo, they'll ruin the setup by having sub HD lenses.. .

 

[Majukun]

Of course they could. It just wouldn't compete without something setting it apart from the others. You saw the GameCube, right?

the gamecube was not the successor of a console who sold near 100 million units.
just continue what you was doing with the wii,but add o decent classic controller (with analoue triggers and everything) and enough power to get direct ports from both "actual gen" and "next gen".

they would have had around one year to get some user base,streamline the manifacture process,while having a complete package that can appeal to everyone,both publisher and gamers,and non-gamers too.

maybe price would have been a problem at the beginning..but it's not like the wii U is selling like hot cakes even at his current price.

 

[The_Lump]

This quote proves that Iwata is not the right kind of man to run a multi billion dollar company that sells products globally.

Nintendo can't compete? What a load of crap.

You know that's just the headline, right? Makes more sense in context.

This mindset brought us DS, Wii and 3DS....so I'd say it's worked pretty well for them up to now. In that sense, I understand perfectly why they continued down that route when planning WiiU. (although many other things went awry along the way, of course)

 

[Squishy3]

You mean two duds. Two massive duds. You don't get to sweep 3DS' disastrous launch under the rug here, especially since what they had to do to save it severely undercut their profit projections and likely lead to the situation they're in now with being unable to properly support the Wii U (i.e. Nintendo's biggest failure in their history as a gaming company).

So there is something wrong with the mindset of Nintendo's current leadership. Absolutely wrong. And not just because of where it's landed them this gen, but because it's hard to see how they're going to come back with such a conservative, backward-thinking mentality. The latter is the damning thing.

So I can call the PS3 a dud because Sony lost nearly 5 billion on it, right? I highly doubt Nintendo has incurred that much of a loss on the 3DS and Wii U.

 

[pestul]

Gamecube says Hi

Good point. For a console to be successful, you have to get a lot of things right. It's hard to appeal to the casual and young crowd whilst still maintaining relevancy with the more mature gamer. Nintendo needs to figure out how to do that somehow, or maybe they should just pursue what they're best at. And yes.. I don't own a 3DS so I often forget how good 3rd party support is on that platform..

 

[wsippel]

You mean two duds. Two massive duds. You don't get to sweep 3DS' disastrous launch under the rug here, especially since what they had to do to save it severely undercut their profit projections and likely lead to the situation they're in now with being unable to properly support the Wii U (i.e. Nintendo's biggest failure in their history as a gaming company).

So there is something wrong with the mindset of Nintendo's current leadership. Absolutely wrong. And not just because of where it's landed them this gen, but because it's hard to see how they're going to come back with such a conservative, backward-thinking mentality. The latter is the damning thing.

I didn't sweep the 3DS launch under the rug, read my post again. Yes, getting it back on track was costly, but they did it - when almost everyone in the industry considered it impossible.

 

[cyberheater]

The Gamepad is not a tablet by any stretch.

Even by a small stretch it is. It looks exactly like a tablet with added controls. The screen responds like a tablet. You can surf the web on it exactly as you would a tablet. So no. You don't have to stretch at all to consider it a tablet.

 

[10k]

Wow, my business degree just did a 360 in its frame. What company admits they aren't good at competing and essentially throw in the towel? What if the Wii U had all its current features and controller but also the tech of an XB1 and was priced at $399.99? Then what would third parties do? They would most likely support it.

Nintendo tried to get lucky twice in a row with the gimmicky console and failed. Lightning rarely strikes in the same spot twice.

I like Iwata but sometimes change is needed and Nintendo needs a huge culture change from the top-down.

 

[DragonSworne]

That was in the process of being designed before the big tablet boom.

The WiiPad is one of the best devices I've ever touched, not only as a dev but as a user.

Why did it take Nintendo 5+ years to create something that was already on the market for 2-3 years?

After noticing that tablets were on the market already and offered more flexibility and capability than the gamepad, why didn't Nintendo's leadership rethink the value add from the gamepad and try to offer more functionality and usability?

Nintendo's leadership team was very narrow-minded and slow when releasing the Wii U.

 

[NeonZ]

Now you can argue (and I will) that the particular gimmick that they chose to explore with the WiiU may be poorly thought out, or that they didn't have a coherent marketing strategy, or any number of other reasons for its current failure. But what I don't get is why anyone would look at the history of their last two consoles and think that at an executive level anyone was going to go "yeah that completely different approach with the Wii was an amazing success, but lets go back to that old strategy, that worked out so well"

Because the Wii's strategy left no room for growth. Even if the Wii U's concept had been successful, the Wii was basically its ceiling because they'd be just recreating the exact same conditions - underpowered hardware missing significant chunks of support by default, which would eventually hurt its early success limiting its potential for growth. I don't see how they look at that, call it a day and attempt to repeat exactly the same strategy.

And if the new gimmick failed to catch on... well, we're seeing the results now. It was a completely unambitious strategy.

Also, the GameCube wasn't just a console on par with the others, it was a console on par with the others released after the clear market leader had more than one year to establish itself. Yeah, that strategy was bad and they shouldn't repeat it, but that doesn't mean that competing was a mistake in the first place. The mistake was attempting to compete like that. Also, look at the numbers now. Compared to the Wii U, the GC was a success.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

So I can call the PS3 a dud because Sony lost nearly 5 billion on it, right? I highly doubt Nintendo has incurred that much of a loss on the 3DS and Wii U.

You can call the PS3 a dud on that premise but it's certainly not a dud when it comes to SW and services. Something which holds a ton of weight and negates your statement seeing as the Wii is now the dud and so is the WiiU.

Bringing that up sets your argument up to fail. If there is a dud now then it's the Wii and WiiU.

Even by a small stretch it is. It looks exactly like a tablet with added controls. The screen responds like a tablet. You can surf the web on it exactly as you would a tablet. So no. You don't have to stretch at all to consider it a tablet.

It absolutely is a tablet with pad controls built around it. You hit it on the nail.

 

[daxgame]

Ever thought about offering something unique on top of what others offer?

If you mean specs, then to offer a $500 console? No thanks.
if you mean services then heh.

 

[TheBaldEmperor]

Wii is my second favorite console ever (after SNES) and I've been playing games for over 25 years.

My first time playing wii (excite truck in a gamestop) was gaming bliss for me. Still my favorite racing game ever.

Same for me. I finally had a chance to play it at gamestop before launch and that sold me.

 

[The_Lump]

Why did it take Nintendo 5+ years to create something that was already on the market for 2-3 years?

After noticing that tablets were on the market already and offered more flexibility and capability than the gamepad, why didn't Nintendo's leadership rethink the value add from the gamepad and try to offer more functionality and usability?

Nintendo's leadership team was very narrow-minded when releasing the Wii U.

1) It's not "a tablet"
2) You don't just throw that much R&D out the window.

 

[antonz]

Good point. For a console to be successful, you have to get a lot of things right. It's hard to appeal to the casual and young crowd whilst still maintaining relevancy with the more mature gamer. Nintendo needs to figure out how to do that somehow, or maybe they should just pursue what they're best at. And yes.. I don't own a 3DS so I often forget how good 3rd party support is on that platform..

Nintendo has a few issues that are just not something they can wave a wand and fix. Development wise they are a family developing company. I dont see that changing anytime soon.

So that starts them off with the negative kid perception. Then the other issue is the perpetual 3rd parties can't succeed but dont actually try in the first place problem.

Nintendo would basically have to moneyhat the entire industry to get any sort of legitimate 3rd party support. 3rd Parties have set themselves into a cycle where they half ass support then find out the gamers who own the console don't want half ass support so dont buy the half ass products.

Then 3rd parties blame the gamers instead of themselves and the cycle continues.

 

[MYE]

Good on them for not making a third box that offers the same the other two do.
I like options and so far the wii remote and gamepad have been awesome takes on videogame controls.

I wish all three strived to do their own thing

 

[Majukun]

I'm surprised people find it that outrageous Nintendo doesn't want to compete head-on against either Sony or Microsoft, especially after it worked so well with Wii.

the wii model shown its huge limits at the end of this gen..it may have been a success sales wise,but it was also the first console to retire of this gen,and had pretty much no support from third party publishers.

that's why making a console with every problem the wii had but without the novelty of motion controls (opting instead for a tablet like controller,something that people were considering "new" in 2006 with the DS,not in 2013) was an incredibly stupid move.

pretty much everyone with a little of knowledge of the actual market could have predicted the problems the wii u is having right now on the market..the wii u is a console "born dead",it had no chance of success,none.

and being a nintendo fan,i was hoping to be wrong

 

[entremet]

Their software output is unique enough imo.

Yep. Sony and MS are just too me too for my tastes. They have that 15-30 year male demo down.

Sounds like Nintendo have a shitty, outdated management structure, more than anything else here.

They're always been conservative, which is why they've managed to survive even when video games are their primary business. Sony and MS are propped up by other divisions and can take losses. If Nintendo gets in a tech war, they'll blow tons of cash without recompense.

 

[NotSelf]

I don't care nintendo i always go crawling back to you anyway.

 

[magnetic]

Even by a small stretch it is. It looks exactly like a tablet with added controls. The screen responds like a tablet. You can surf the web on it exactly as you would a tablet. So no. You don't have to stretch at all to consider it a tablet.

A tablet doesn't need to be in the same room as the consoles that powers it.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

You mean two duds. Two massive duds. You don't get to sweep 3DS' disastrous launch under the rug here, especially since what they had to do to save it severely undercut their profit projections and likely lead to the situation they're in now with being unable to properly support the Wii U (i.e. Nintendo's biggest failure in their history as a gaming company).

So there is something wrong with the mindset of Nintendo's current leadership. Absolutely wrong. And not just because of where it's landed them this gen, but because it's hard to see how they're going to come back with such a conservative, backward-thinking mentality. The latter is the damning thing.

It's interesting I could replace 3DS with "PS3" and "Wii U" with "Vita" in your post and have it still be more or less accurate. I'm going to assume you don't have these same opinions for Sony however.

 

[The Technomancer]

You can call the PS3 a dud on that premise but it's certainly not a dud when it comes to SW and services. Something which holds a ton of weight and negates your statement seeing as the Wii is now the dud and so is the WiiU.

Bringing that up sets your argument up to fail. If there is a dud now then it's the Wii and WiiU.

What criteria are we using for "dud" here? Are we just talking about how much money it makes the company or are we also talking about how much gamers "like it"?

 

[VariantX]

Good point. For a console to be successful, you have to get a lot of things right. It's hard to appeal to the casual and young crowd whilst still maintaining relevancy with the more mature gamer. Nintendo needs to figure out how to do that somehow, or maybe they should just pursue what they're best at. And yes.. I don't own a 3DS so I often forget how good 3rd party support is on that platform..

It's almost non existent from western devs barring indie devs, has excellent Japanese support though which the region lock gets in the way of. Since the output is anemic in other regions that are not Japan, you only get what's localized or buy a second Japanese 3DS.

 

[royalan]

So I can call the PS3 a dud because Sony lost nearly 5 billion on it, right? I highly doubt Nintendo has incurred that much of a loss on the 3DS and Wii U.

Nope.

PS3 isn't a dud simply because it left Sony in a position to continue being competitive in the hardware industry. People have got to stop looking at console generations as islands in themselves, when really they are but plays in a much larger game.

Everything Sony did with PS3 has left them in a position to rake in the dough with the PS4, and not just in hardware, but in massive software sales. Sony set themselves up to dominate this gen, and it's thanks to the PS3. Nintendo's thinking how you're thinking, and it is what has lead to this massive fumble in passing the baton.

 

[drspeedy]

"Some people even recommended to make Pikachu more muscular."

this is my main takeaway here

 

[mclem]

Ever thought about offering something unique on top of what others offer?

You mean, with less resources available to you than your rivals, you should offer more than them?

That's not a particularly secure business philosophy.

 

[Dysun]

They should exit the console business if they can't compete. Being stuck behind your competitors and losing mindshare daily with your CEO saying you can't compete is laughable.

 

[DragonSworne]

1) It's not "a tablet"
2) You don't just throw that much R&D out the window.

Yep, it's not a tablet. A tablet is a much better idea than the gamepad. It offers more functionality and flexibility while at the same time costing far less than the Gamepad + Wii U combo.

Makes you wonder why Nintendo wasted so much R&D on the gamepad when they could have taken that idea just a few steps further and made a tablet.

The other approach would be to utilize the millions of tablets already on the market for the system and not bogged down R&D with the gamepad. Sony and MS made the better decision in this regard by far.

 

[Fabrik]

Wow, my business degree just did a 360 in its frame. What company admits they aren't good at competing and essentially throw in the towel? What if the Wii U had all its current features and controller but also the tech of an XB1 and was priced at $399.99 while curing cancer, stopping global warming and hunger? Then what would third parties do? They would most likely support it.

Fixed for you.

 

[primasaurus]

Microsoft and Sony could not survive on the profits from their gaming divisions if that is all they had

Nintendo has consistently had a great business, yet it's them that get the negativity, way too much bias in here

 

[kinggroin]

Thats bullshit.

The NES was similar to every other console.

So was the SNES.

So was the N64 bar carts

So was the GC bar the shit control pad.

This loser attitude only came about with the Wii and Iwata's rise.

Nintendo need to lose him quick time! He's sending Nintendo to their doom starting with the WiiU...probably the most pathetic console they've released since the Virtual Boy!

N64 was not similar to other consoles.

last I remember, my PlayStation didn't come with analog controls when it launched.


that's all I wanted to say. carry on.

 

[Squishy3]

You can call the PS3 a dud on that premise but it's certainly not a dud when it comes to SW and services. Something which holds a ton of weight and negates your statement seeing as the Wii is now the dud and so is the WiiU.

Bringing that up sets your argument up to fail. If there is a dud now then it's the Wii and WiiU.

Then when the games for the Wii U start coming out, it will no longer be a dud. It's that simple. Games drive hardware. If the initial gimmick and launch games don't drive sales, the solution is to ramp up production of games and attempt to raise the perceived value of the device. The problem is games take time to develop, no matter what company you are.

 

[Majukun]

So I can call the PS3 a dud because Sony lost nearly 5 billion on it, right? I highly doubt Nintendo has incurred that much of a loss on the 3DS and Wii U.

that's why kutaragi is not chief of the playstation project anymore,while iwata is still on the helm.
sony made tons of errors due to arrogance with the ps3,but they managed to overcome them,they adapted to a market with no exclusive by creating,not without sacrifices and some team cut away,an impressive roster of second and first party studios,and managed to pass the 360 in sales,all this WITHOUT lowering the price of their console,that at this moment is still the more expensive of the market on the three

 

[Schnozberry]

Neither Sony or Microsoft pour all of their other profits into their gaming divisions Nintendo would be more than capable of competing if they were willing to. For good and for bad, their "toy" mentality has locked them into a shrinking sliver of the marketplace.

Well, Sony was losing their ass all over the place until just recently, not just gaming. Microsoft makes so much money they have just wallpapered over the losses of their gaming division and called it an investment towards becoming the center of the living room. The losses both companies have absorbed on trying to be your gaming and media center wouldn't make any sense to a company that only makes games.

I don't even know if Iwata was translated correctly, but I think what he was talking about was Nintendo's culture and it's strengths. Nintendo prides itself on innovation and doing it's own thing, rather than other corporate cultures that place competition above other values, even internally amongst their own employees. People want to extrapolate this to verify their pre-existing biases, and we get a thread like this.

 

[Gonff]

Why did it take Nintendo 5+ years to create something that was already on the market for 2-3 years?

After noticing that tablets were on the market already and offered more flexibility and capability than the gamepad, why didn't Nintendo's leadership rethink the value add from the gamepad and try to offer more functionality and usability?

Nintendo's leadership team was very narrow-minded and slow when releasing the Wii U.

You can't completely scrap your hardware and start over after 3 or 4 years. Especially when you have a few third parties and internal studios already working on implementing the technology.

The WiiPad is a great device with so much creative potential it makes your head spin. Anything lacking from it right now is software related, which can always be added in an update.

 

[Tobor]

Yep, it's not a tablet. A tablet is a much better idea than the gamepad. It offers more functionality and flexibility while at the same time costing far less than the Gamepad + Wii U combo.

Makes you wonder why Nintendo wasted so much R&D on the gamepad when they could have taken that idea just a few steps further and made a tablet.

Exactly what I was going to say. Beaten!

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

A tablet is not something new.

It is for gaming consoles.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

What criteria are we using for "dud" here? Are we just talking about how much money it makes the company or are we also talking about how much gamers "like it"?

Understand that I was replying to his stance on bringing up sales loss vs the merits of the platform. This is why that statement has holes that do not hold weight to the argument.

How you evaluate dud is on you and that's your sole position. How I responded to him is telling him that sales loss not making the PS3 a dud considering the continued SW and HW success it enjoys today.

Let's compare that to sales and SW output on Wii and WiiU. That's dire.

Then when the games for the Wii U start coming out, it will no longer be a dud. It's that simple. Games drive hardware. If the initial gimmick and launch games don't drive sales, the solution is to ramp up production of games and attempt to raise the perceived value of the device. The problem is games take time to develop, no matter what company you are.

Absolutely. Right now, it's a sales and SW dud. I fully believe the best days are yet to come but we also have 2 proper next gen platforms which will completely burn WiiU in HW prowess and SW throughput. Especially when it comes to PS4's enormous abundance of announced games.

 

[Soule]

Then stop competing and become a software company!

You know what's up

 

[prag16]

They are competing though. That's the point of presenting unique selling propositions which is what's being discussed. They're just putting more focus in the former part, even if its a risk.

Right. And I wouldn't be surprised if this was a bad translation. Would he really say straight up "we're bad at competing"?

 

[family_guy]

Nintendo can't compete because it can't do the whole selling at a massive loss thing. Not because they don't have the brain power to just shove more video cards into it.
The way they designed the Wii U (USB ports aside) shows that they could design a powerful console, they just can't afford to BUILD one. And sell it for anything that anyone would feel was a fair price.
They don't do multimedia and "Nintendo Network GOLD" sort of shit so they can't subsidize it as heavily, and, as seen with the Gamecube, even with the right amount of power 3rd parties tell them to fuck off.

So no, they really just can't. Simple as that.

That's BS. Nintendo has more cash reserves than Sony. They can take a loss. Nintendo is in the black. Sony is in the red

 

[Brera]

Of course they could. It just wouldn't compete without something setting it apart from the others. You saw the GameCube, right?

GC was held back by a crap control pad that made ports hard.

Also...WiiU can only dream of GC style success!

 

[The_Lump]

Yep, it's not a tablet. A tablet is a much better idea than the gamepad. It offers more functionality and flexibility while at the same time costing far less than the Gamepad + Wii U combo.

Makes you wonder why Nintendo wasted so much R&D on the gamepad when they could have taken that idea just a few steps further and made a tablet.

The other approach would be to utilize the millions of tablets already on the market for the system and not bogged down R&D with the gamepad. Sony and MS made the better decision in this regard by far.

No they didn't because they cant guarantee every console user also has the 'tablet' controller to take advantage of it's functions. Therefore developers are less likely to waste resources catering to it.

By R&D costs, I'm talking about the streaming tech, which they spent a lot if time/money perfecting by all accounts; not just the screen itself.

 

[hachi]

Exactly.

Whenever these discussions come up you always have to deal with these boogymen Nintendo fans concoct as reasons for why Nintendo "just can't" compete. Competing doesn't mean throwing the most expensive tech into a box and tossing the most money into a marketing campaign. Competing is putting smart, relevant tech into a box at a price the public will notice. Competing is researching the market you're trying to make money off of and making games they actually want to buy. Competing is being passionate about and aggressive with the product you're trying to sell.

So far, with the Wii U, Nintendo hasn't done any of this. And it's not because they "can't." Honestly, that quote just sounds like an excuse on Iwata's part for why Nintendo's seemingly thrown in the towel but still wants your money.

That's only one approach to competition. You're describing a market research-driven strategy that looks exclusively at existing products and sales and then tries to position and aggressively market a new product with features that fit perfectly within that existing space. Microsoft is very much like this: see what's successful and incorporate it, market it like mad. The alternative is to try and create a new space, or influence the way people purchase and play rather than fitting to their current and known desires. Every company incorporates a bit of each style, but Nintendo--as a smaller company relative to its competitors, and as a toy company by nature--focuses more on trying to shift the market than on trying to pinpoint and match its existing needs.

Thats bullshit.

The NES was similar to every other console.

So was the SNES.

So was the N64 bar carts

So was the GC bar the shit control pad.

This loser attitude only came about with the Wii and Iwata's rise.

Nintendo need to lose him quick time! He's sending Nintendo to their doom starting with the WiiU...probably the most pathetic console they've released since the Virtual Boy!

Things have changed completely since the early console days. Nintendo could compete in that era because the console was a self-contained ecosystem: it needed only to connect to your standard TV, and after that its innards could be whatever the game maker desired. Recently the console space has shifted qualitatively, with a tremendous burden to not only build hardware for your games but to also incorporate a ton of existing technologies, software frameworks, and online services to stay current. Nintendo can't handle that style of complete media-box development on the level of companies the size of MS and Sony.