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[DCharlie]

"We know what PS3 will roughly be like. We have the list of key components. We know they will be market leader, have most games, support etc."

this still doesn't tell you anything about their pricing policy for peripherals, online services, etc etc.

PS3 hardware cost also depends on what they decide to bundle stuff together.

What if, for instance, they go the Xbox route and say "Well, bluray functionality needs a remote - we are charging $50 for that etc etc..." ?

no one knows anything about this and after the "oh, look! PSP is only 19800!" followed by the non-existance of the 19800 pack after a while, they _might_ do something similar.

Point being , no one knows.

On the other hand, i don't think the price will be an issue, i think the problem will be getting a machine in the first year (deliberately low numbers and high demand, but low numbers being the issue)

 

[Deg]

this still doesn't tell you anything about their pricing policy for peripherals, online services, etc etc.

PS3 hardware cost also depends on what they decide to bundle stuff together.

What if, for instance, they go the Xbox route and say "Well, bluray functionality needs a remote - we are charging $50 for that etc etc..." ?

no one knows anything about this and after the "oh, look! PSP is only 19800!" followed by the non-existance of the 19800 pack after a while, they _might_ do something similar.

Point being , no one knows.

On the other hand, i don't think the price will be an issue, i think the problem will be getting a machine in the first year (deliberately low numbers and high demand, but low numbers being the issue)

We'll see but the actual unit itself is much better than x360. Built in wireless ready ($100) and Blu ray drive alone give it a value well beyond xbox 360. Not to mention the enhanced horsepower and features.

I am betting Nintendo will charge extra for their controllers.

 

[Speevy]

Actually, I think you're missing the point.

MS and Sony aren't trying to market video game systems. That is just part of their consoles' functionality.

You may not like the direction they are going, but you're denying reality if you pretend it isn't happening.

As an avid gamer, I find video games to be inherently more important than the other functions of my consoles. Some people love music, some people love movies, and some people love high definition television. Everyone has their priorities. And combining all of these things is what these machines set out to do.

However, I can't understand anyone who spends even a majority of the period leading up into these launches salivating over things that aren't game-related, like Blu-Ray players. Now, the fact that the Blu-Ray disks hold so much game content is something, but the movies are so irrelevant to me that it's not even funny.

What I see is that you take hardcore gamers, turn them into hardcore tech enthusiasts, and after a while they're back to being casual gamers. I play hundreds of games, and seek out diversity in every genre. Video game geek or whatever, I'd spend hundreds of dollars on new gaming experiences before I'd invest in something else.

And so we can be clear about this: If I had $1,000 to spend on a PS3, I would spend $500 on the console and the rest on games to play on my SDTV.

 

[Raistlin]

Error2k4,

They are trying to sell entertainment systems :\

ie. digital convergance centered in your living room. Like it or lump it, it is their master plan.

In order to accomplish this, they need more HW and system SW than previous game consoles needed. While they will (at least initially) absorb some of the increase in manufacturing and R&D, they can't take it all on - some of it is passed on to us.

You seem to disagree with this direction. If you are right that many won't accept, then they will both lose market-share this gen while Nintendo will regain much of what it has lost.



Speevy,

I think my above statements also apply to your last comment.

 

[Gantz]

you people will pay....

you know it.

Sorry but I'm not going to pay 500$ just to see Snake's plastic ass :lol

 

[Deg]

As an avid gamer, I find video games to be inherently more important than the other functions of my consoles. Some people love music, some people love movies, and some people love high definition television. Everyone has their priorities. And combining all of these things is what these machines set out to do.

However, I can't understand anyone who spends even a majority of the period leading up into these launches salivating over things that aren't game-related, like Blu-Ray players. Now, the fact that the Blu-Ray disks hold so much game content is something, but the movies are so irrelevant to me that it's not even funny.

What I see is that you take hardcore gamers, turn them into hardcore tech enthusiasts, and after a while they're back to being casual gamers. I play hundreds of games, and seek out diversity in every genre. Video game geek or whatever, I'd spend hundreds of dollars on new gaming experiences before I'd invest in something else.

And so we can be clear about this: If I had $1,000 to spend on a PS3, I would spend $500 on the console and the rest on games to play on my SDTV.

PS2 was also the best/most popular games machine. Its in their interests that they satisfy your gaming needs because thats where most of the money is and thats why people are buying these 'consoles' at the end of the day. This media thing may not turn out the way people expect. Would you have expected Apple to be big in music 10 years ago?

Each generation sees a large jump in space needed so hopefully Blu ray can provide enough capacity for upcoming games like say MGS4. The movie side helps Sony achieve greater value in the product and helps them interms of marketshare. Although right now to be honest they dont need PS3 anymore for topping HDDVD. So think its more of a gain to PS3 now.

 

[KINGMOKU]

I'm a technophile. While my stance of these companies here are well known. 500 dollars for what they are offering is cheap. You are still just looking at it as a gaming system. It is that, plus more. I don't watch movies so the Blu Ray drive wouldn't be a big pull to me. To another that cares about visual fidelity, they will be in heaven. A standalone Blu Ray player costs much more than the PS3 will. So, just off of that, in essense, it's a deal. They want to run the living room, both Sony and Microsoft. It just that the gaming system portion of their hardware is the easiest way to achieve that goal. I look at things differently I guess. I'm not rich by any means, but I'll go out and buy something if I really want it. I wanted an Alienware laptop, got it. Set me back over 4 grand, but I got it.

No shit sherlock. They can "want to run" whatever they want. I WANT A V-I-D-E-O-G-A-M-E-S-Y-S-T-E-M, Not a toaster, NOT a washer, NOT a movie player, NOT an MP3 player, just a put a disc in the FUCKING SLOT videogame system.

YOUR the reason why we have 20,000$ Compact cars. "Gee whiz! It's got a CD PLAYER!"

God people have gone insane. 500$!?!?!?!? WTF?

I guess videogame systems are dead. Long live the DS! No wait! We have a 250$ PORTABLE THAT PLAYS MOVIES! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Musashi Wins!]

That ass modeling is a little much.

Seriously, I agree with DCharlie we know too little right now. And I suspect somewhat the same for the survey. They don't know.

But I firmly do not believe $500 for a launch price. Positioning themselves as high end, etc. is well and good, but Sony will not surrender that amount of time and loss of sales to MS when their brand is so strong. We'll see deep feature cuts before we see that price tag.

 

[lachesis]

Well, if PS3 is going to be Be-all-End-all of all Blu-Ray players, then I will gladly dive in - but blu-ray support besides gaming, I just don't find it that appealing as I plan to buy a real blu-ray/hd dvd player when its available. Just like anything else in my living room.

... Don't tell me other makers will be making better blu-ray movie players? Oh, they are? Snap!

Also, Dual HDMI support. Within 5-6 year lifespan of a console, how much will it get utilized? How many will? If such thing like Dual HDMI is part of driving up the cost of the machine, I'm very against it.

yes, from technical point of view, it is a good value for 500 dollars. However, it's not a good value for casual consumers, as its just a bit too much.

Cut out a few, and it will be perfect. (insert the emperor Joseph's voice in Amadeus)

Built in and not being used.. and overpriced and optionalized. That's the question.

lachesis

 

[Kleegamefan]

where the hell is all this coming from?

we don't know the price of the PS3, what configuration it's going to be in, how much the add-ons are, how much the software is, what price the online system is going to be, etc etc...

so how on earth can people be making this call on the PS3?

Not sure how it is in the US, but here in Japan for the PS2, we still get raped on things like the controllers, the (non backwards compatible) multitap, the HDD ($180 initially), the $25 memory cards...

Yes, IF sony allow us to use our own drives, if they drop the high pricing of perhipherals, if they blah blah blah blah blah....

No one knows whether they are getting a bargain or not yet, so lets just hold fire huh?

The only if if if if if if if is the HDD...it may be proprietary like X360 or it might use standard SATA Laptop HDDs....

Looking at what has been announced sofar with PS3 makes me think it will use standard Laptop drives....shit, everything else on PS3 is standards based...

HDMI

SACD

Blutooth Controllers

Wifi

Blu Ray

Gbit Ethernet

CF, SD and MS flash cards



Compare this with X360:

HDD....only the X360 one works..

Wifi adapter....cant use standard USB ones, gotta use the MS branded Xbox 1 or X360 model

Game saves....can't use flash card readers even via X360 USB jacks


Wireless X360 controllers.....propritary wireless


If you want to get any of these accessories, you are locked into the expensive Xbox-branded ones, period...

Microsoft even went so far as to include a security chip in X360 controllers and such, ensuring you can *ONLY* use official Xbox 360-licensed products......this is not done to save you money, believe me...


Even If PS3 is expensive, you will still have the option to use off the shelf accessories, unlike X360....


.....Sony has gone on record as saying PS3 will use..

 

[Deg]

Exactly MS know they wont make much from software alone. So they are going the profit route. Notice how accessory companies are being handled.

yes, from technical point of view, it is a good value for 500 dollars. However, it's not a good value for casual consumers, as its just a bit too much.

It will always be good value. To most people its worth the asking price. The rest will buy later but it cements PS3 as the must have item.

 

[GSG Flash]

Well I don't think Sony is actually stupid enough to charge $500 for the console, I believe it will be around $299 to $399 and Sony will initially lose money on this, but in turn they will probably sell the controllers for quite a bit as well as any other extras. I also think games may reach the $70 US mark when the PS3 comes out.

 

[Error]

It will always be good value. To most people its worth the asking price. The rest will buy later but it cements PS3 as the must have item.

Sadly casuals are not as informed as you and still see the Playstation brand as something related to games and not as a media center. say to a casual that a PS3 is going to cost $500 dollars (this is of course if any of this turns out to be true) it'll be funny to see their reactions.

and people say the the Blue Ray drive will sell the console no uh. by the time the PS2 hit the shelves the DVD penetration was big enough for it to be a selling point for the PS2. that is not the case for the Blue Ray.

 

[damisa]

You will never own an HDTV?

Regardless, if you are not a movie or video person at all ... then fine. If you have no plans for an HDTV, then why bother getting a next gen console?

I'll own an HDTV eventually, but I doubt I'll suddenly want to collect movies. I'm not going to get a new console for a while... I'm a poor graduate student living on ramen : /

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

deliberately low numbers and high demand, but low numbers being the issue

Deliberately low?

Come on now.

There is no way humanly possible Sony could produce enough Playstation 3 units to meet initial demand (first 4-6 months I reckon). I'd love for it to happen (surpass Microsoft's sales "lead" within weeks instead of months), but as with the PS2 there are going to be empty shelves where Playstation 3 units have only sat for five seconds everywhere.

 

[lachesis]

It will always be good value. To most people its worth the asking price. The rest will buy later but it cements PS3 as the must have item.

I disagree.. to most people, it's not worth asking price. Heck, most households do not have HDTVs either. Blu-ray is pretty much useless unless you have HDTV, and its penetration ratio is just not there yet - getting there, but not yet.

what I meant by casual consumers - it means the majority who doesn't have HDTV yet, and probably won't have until the price of HDTV is more affordable like current CRTs.

lachesis

 

[Deg]

I disagree.. to most people, it's not worth asking price. Heck, most households do not have HDTVs either. Blu-ray is pretty much useless unless you have HDTV, and its penetration ratio is just not there yet - getting there, but not yet.

what I meant by casual consumers - it means the majority who doesn't have HDTV yet, and probably won't have until the price of HDTV is more affordable like current CRTs.

lachesis

Wait for one of the price cuts. There will be people who say $150 is too much. Different segments different asking prices.

 

[Speevy]

It will always be good value. To most people its worth the asking price. The rest will buy later but it cements PS3 as the must have item.

The rest is most, just like with the PS2.

You really think the majority of PS3 owners, before the generation is over, will have bought the $500 model? That's either a sharp drop in sales or an absurdly constant demand that doesn't warrant a price drop ever.

Most gamers may see the PS3 as a must-have item. However, actually buying one for $500 at launch is not something that most gamers will be doing, and you can't determine their motivation. The most logical reason is that it's just too expensive at launch.

 

[Deg]

The rest is most, just like with the PS2.

You really think the majority of PS3 owners, before the generation is over, will have bought the $500 model? That's either a sharp drop in sales or an absurdly constant demand that doesn't warrant a price drop ever.

Most gamers may see the PS3 as a must-have item. However, actually buying one for $500 at launch is not something that most gamers will be doing, and you can't determine their motivation. The most logical reason is that it's just too expensive at launch.

Sorry i meant the other way round. :lol Either way there'll be many more PS3 buyers at higher prices than the other two consoles combined. Yes i expect many people to die for one but dont want to pay that much. Its natural but many people will buy. For me it goes over a certain limit i wont buy regardless too but i doubt it will be $700 or something like that.

 

[Raistlin]

No shit sherlock. They can "want to run" whatever they want. I WANT A V-I-D-E-O-G-A-M-E-S-Y-S-T-E-M, Not a toaster, NOT a washer, NOT a movie player, NOT an MP3 player, just a put a disc in the FUCKING SLOT videogame system.

YOUR the reason why we have 20,000$ Compact cars. "Gee whiz! It's got a CD PLAYER!"

God people have gone insane. 500$!?!?!?!? WTF?

I guess videogame systems are dead. Long live the DS! No wait! We have a 250$ PORTABLE THAT PLAYS MOVIES! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then maybe you shouldn't buy a new console from MS or Sony, as they are not in the business of selling a simple V-I-D-E-O-G-A-M-E-S-Y-S-T-E-M.

 

[Raistlin]

I'll own an HDTV eventually, but I doubt I'll suddenly want to collect movies. I'm not going to get a new console for a while... I'm a poor graduate student living on ramen : /

I was being a bit facetious.

I understand there are some people who would not pay $50 for BluRay ... just trying to point out that it is probably a minority.

Regardless, there's no point in arguing this further. The PS3 will not be made available sans BluRay drive ... we don't know what the price difference would even be if they did ... and we don't know what the PS3 will really launch for.

:\

 

[KingJ2002]

I can only imagine the system coming out at 399 or 499... no more... no less.


depending on how sony markets them... it could really hurt them... or make them alot of money... either way... sony needs the ps3 to succeed... and they have 2 generations of victory under their belt.

 

[Gattsu25]

You won't see me buying a PS3 if that's the case

fuck this noise

 

[vantastic]

what noise? the noise of all the assumptions and guessing? :lol
i see some people are saying stuff like 'most people don't even have hdtv's' yet i see a x360 thread about 'what hdtv do you have.' what's up with that? :lol i really don't understand the people who are so cynical about sony.

 

[Juice]

For a Blu-ray drive I will pay $500 no sweat.

And I get games on top of it? SOLD.

It might debut in Japan at 60,000 yen, but I'd still be surprised if it broke $400 here in America, especially if 360 sells.

I'm getting one either way, as it's more than worth it for the BR Drive.

 

[DCharlie]

at 60,000 , i'd still get one, but i don't expect them to fly off the shelves - it's simply too expensive.

not that it matters because i don't believe it will be 60,000 so....

 

[ThirdEye]

You hear it first, $600 is the price of the 200GB HDD bundle.

 

[BobTheFork]

I'm expecting the Ps3 to launch at around the same price is the ps2.

 

[Mashing]

I think the issue is not if the PS3 is worth $500 (IMO it is) but rather HOW many people can afford to pay that much? I don't care how fucking awesome it is... $500 is a lotta fucking money.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

But every console since the Jaguar (aside from NGC) has come in at $300 or more?

N64 and Dreamcast would also be in that time frame.

 

[Error]

Unless you were sarcastic or were never intending to buy PS3 i replyed correctly.

sorry for the late replay. I AM going to buy the PS3, but the point you make about waiting for pricedrop is stupid if the PS3 ended up selling good do you really believe a price drop is gonna happen? no fucking way, not with the system having so many shit in it, which a lot of those I ain't gonna use and that's what piss me off.

and I do see what Onix is trying to say, but the point here is that people see consoles as something to play games, not a machine to play music or to see movies, did the PS2 replaced dvds players? I don't think so.

if any of this is true charging $500 for the console is going to backfire Sony in a big way specially when the 360 would probably at the time of the PS3 launch be at $300.

 

[DCharlie]

"I think the issue is not if the PS3 is worth $500 (IMO it is) but rather HOW many people can afford to pay that much? I don't care how fucking awesome it is... $500 is a lotta fucking money."

*Again -all hypothetical because i don't believe the price will be that high, but...*

yeah, and it all depends on how long Sony have to stay at that price.

If they can't/don't reduce that price then it's going to hurt - hence why i believe they will go with a price of 39800 (more than reasonable) and stem the flow of machines to build hype/ build more demand / reduce the money lost on each machine.

But if it is $500 - that's a lot of money. I know people are saying "Yeah, but add in the xxx to X360 and it's the same price etc etc..." but... _that's_ too expensive too! Comparitive value doesn't make $500 any less unfortunately.

 

[Juice]

*Again -all hypothetical because i don't believe the price will be that high, but...*

yeah, and it all depends on how long Sony have to stay at that price.

If they can't/don't reduce that price then it's going to hurt - hence why i believe they will go with a price of 39800 (more than reasonable) and stem the flow of machines to build hype/ build more demand / reduce the money lost on each machine.

But if it is $500 - that's a lot of money. I know people are saying "Yeah, but add in the xxx to X360 and it's the same price etc etc..." but... _that's_ too expensive too! Comparitive value doesn't make $500 any less unfortunately.

Yeah, it just means hardly anyone would buy the next gen systems until their prices were cut. Especially given how relatively little must-have killer app software we know about. MGS4 & Halo 3, and those both might well not be out until late 07.

 

[DCharlie]

"Yeah, it just means hardly anyone would buy the next gen systems until their prices were cut. Especially given how relatively little must-have killer app software we know about. MGS4 & Halo 3, and those both might well not be out until late 07."

indeed - and that may well suit Sony much better than MS.

MS seem to have slit the Xbox 1's throat, where as there are a number of hot titles still lined up for PS2.

 

[Juice]

indeed - and that may well suit Sony much better than MS.

MS seem to have slit the Xbox 1's throat, where as there are a number of hot titles still lined up for PS2.

Stagnant sales of 360 and PS3 due to price and ho-hum software is also obviously good news for the Revolution, which needs all of the consumer apathy towards traditional gaming as it can get.

 

[DCharlie]

well, i expect the Revolution to do very well on its own - i think Iwata is right : people want something different. (People being people in general, not the hardcore)

 

[Juice]

well, i expect the Revolution to do very well on its own - i think Iwata is right : people want something different. (People being people in general, not the hardcore)

Of course, you and I are both a bit under the influence of what we see in Japan. I'm not entirely sure I'd feel the same way back home.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Of course, you and I are both a bit under the influence of what we see in Japan. I'm not entirely sure I'd feel the same way back home.

I'm getting a Rev first day. That has to do with trusting Nintendo's vision though. They haven't failed me for 20 years.

 

[Il Comodino]

Sorry

someone can explain to me, for which reason I would have to buy something that does not appeal to me at 400$ and not something that appeals to me at 500$?

If you see a Armani's Jaket at 300$ that like me, why I must buy a H&M's jaket, that I don't prefer?

I do not understand it


every purchase have this iter!

 

[Il Comodino]

He didn't. There was an article featuring his comments, wherein the journalist said that, probably based off a movie exec's comments in the same article. Unless there was something else?

Sony hasn't said anything specifically about PS3's price, in terms of figures or a range. There's been reports of Sony saying things to partners and so forth (which suggested 40,000 yen), but that's not from the horse's mouth.

excuse if I insist, but Striger has said this :

However, Blu-ray's higher capacity and improved quality next-generation DVDs will help stimulate consumer interest in advanced high-definition devices such as DVD players, televisions and hand-held units to provide continuity of the new experience. Such consumer upgrades would boost Sony's entire HD value chain of products -- from the Sony Panasonic Genesis camera used by film studios, 4K digital theater projectors, HD camcorder and the Bravia and SXRD rear projector screen televisions.

"The reason Sony has suddenly gained support for Blu-ray is simple," said a high-level studio executive close to the discussions. "PS3 is a subsidized Blu-ray play that will sell 20 million units. The first HD player will be on the market for $1,000. PS3 could be at $300 or $400. Sony will be selling them at a loss the first six months to a year just to get Blu-ray players out in the market. So studios realize they need to have their content on it."

That stands in sharp contrast to PS2, which exclusively offered Sony content simply because other studios could not be convinced it was a platform that would make money, company executives said.

 

[DCharlie]

"The first HD player will be on the market for $1,000. PS3 could be at $300 or $400."

could ... might... if... maybe...

said a high-level studio executive close to the discussions.

Not Stringer.

That stands in sharp contrast to PS2, which exclusively offered Sony content simply because other studios could not be convinced it was a platform that would make money, company executives said.

.... what???

You mean, no one supported DVD?!

 

[seanoff]

If anyone thinks sony are going to price an important product out of the market, please lay off the crack pipe.

Depending on their 60nm timetable sony might launch @ $300 and hold the price for a few years. If they expect a quick shift down to that lvl then they might eat the losses for a while.

IF it launches @ $300 the queue on day1 will be a circus with both the gaming and HT freaks lining up. The PS2 launch will look like a calm days trading compared to the bloodbath that would be the PS3 launch.

The absolute maximum i suspect will be $350.

This thread on B3D shows the sort of cost savings Sony have made with process improvements on the PS2 chipset http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25816 go to post 10

 

[marc^o^]

I think the issue is not if the PS3 is worth $500 (IMO it is) but rather HOW many people can afford to pay that much? I don't care how fucking awesome it is... $500 is a lotta fucking money.

We thought the PSP would be $400. Sony surprised us. Yet at $250, PSP can't be the market leader, it's still too expensive for the mass market. I think it will be the same for the PS3: extraordinary technology, not that expensive considering the embedded components, but still too pricey to sell in PS2 numbers. In french, we'd say Sony had "la folie des grandeurs". High tech escalation may have put them in a niche market. A multi million niche of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if PS3 "only" sells 35 million consoles next gen.

 

[Il Comodino]

We thought the PSP would be $400. Sony surprised us. Yet at $250, PSP can't be the market leader, it's still too expensive for the mass market. I think it will be the same for the PS3: extraordinary technology, not that expensive considering the embedded components, but still too pricey to sell in PS2 numbers. In french, we'd say Sony had "la folie des grandeurs". High tech escalation may have put them in a niche market. A multi million niche of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if PS3 "only" sells 35 million consoles next gen.

credo tu abbia un pò di confusione su come funzionano i mercati e i prezzi nei mercati

 

[ThirdEye]

So can someone explain me who is that software developer that said it'd be $600 and where's the actual source? Thanks

 

[ThirdEye]

We thought the PSP would be $400. Sony surprised us. Yet at $250, PSP can't be the market leader, it's still too expensive for the mass market. I think it will be the same for the PS3: extraordinary technology, not that expensive considering the embedded components, but still too pricey to sell in PS2 numbers. In french, we'd say Sony had "la folie des grandeurs". High tech escalation may have put them in a niche market. A multi million niche of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if PS3 "only" sells 35 million consoles next gen.

Don't worry, mass-market-friendly $250 GameCube flopped.

 

[Ghost]

Id consider a PS3 at (the UK equivalent of) $500, its all about the games though, as always.


I think Sony could probably sell out their first couple of runs of PS3 at just about any price, so you have to expect them to make the most of it.

 

[ziran]

i think $500 is cheap for a blu-ray player and the power ps3 has, and there's the problem.

sony is notorious for using crap drives in the launch ps1 and ps2, and at $400-$500 for a blu-ray ps3 it's gonna be the same.

there's no way i'm buying a ps3 at launch, i'm waiting until at least second generation machines, with decent quality drives, are available.

 

[bud]

I guess that by the time that MGS4 comes out in Europe (2007?) the price'll be a bit lower.

 

[JMPovoa]

What if, suddenly, the Blu-Ray drive on the PS3 would be unable to play HighDef DVD movies? *gasp*