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Threi said:
Worry not.
If the misogynistic tendencies expounded upon by some of the posters in this thread are indicative of "the hardcore gamer," Darwin's theory ensures that, not only will they never procreate, but the furious over-stimulation of their undercarriages will damn them to death by onanism.
Count Dookkake
Member
Don't feel so sad, guys.
You are very lucky to be able to see the end of one era and the beginning of another.
You are very lucky to be able to see the end of one era and the beginning of another.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Daytona USA counts as a casual game, right? RIGHT???
Sushen
Member
While she got some valid points, Jen didn't have to diss the whole hardcore gaming, which is a huge part of video gaming market, STILL. I'm wishing good luck for her, but one bit of advice that I have for her is that casual gaming is all about openness and thinking outside of the box, and declaring the death of an era is not quite the way to approach it, IMO. You know, is Halo hardcore/casual? Are all brain age clones are casual games?
Sushen
Member
Just like anywhere, knowing the right person to talk to is the key to the successful job finding. It's hard to judge a person with a page of resume and an hour talk, you know.PolyGone said:
Having said that, it'll be an interesting experience for her to deal with matters on the opposite side of aisle and will understand how things turn out to be certain ways. Bad games are not made because they tried to.
farnham said:
Yes. Unfortunately, the word has grown so much that you find entire sites devoted to the so-called "casual gaming", to the point that they redo the history of videogames by classifying classics like Tetris, Super Mario Bros., Pacman and the like as casual games, when they're nothing less or more than classics and brilliant games.
On topic, well, good for her, but I think her view on video games is as caricatural as that of the majority of game journalists. She's the other end of the spectrum, and that is just as bad as the hardcore journalist mentality. I hope she won't have a bad influence on SEGA, because if her words are anything to go by, she can really do nothing good for the industry.
[EDIT] That said, having two opposite views, however caricatural, is still better than just one, but that's still a poor situation.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Rapping Granny said:
Tina Sanchez is all a fella needs...
Oh...and good luck to Jen. Sega...eeesh.
Flavius said:
I don't know. Some would argue that House of the Dead: Overkill, Madworld and Let's Tap are full of promise. And those are for the Wii for God's sake. Pretty impressive, considering most well-known publishers couldn't care less about having decent games on the system.
SEGA makes shit games, but they also make very good ones, or at least, they put a lot of effort in some of them. I personally can't wait to see how Let's Tap turns out.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Flavius said:
It's not a hatred of women. It's something...but it's not a hatred of ALL women. Jenn's a nice girl and that's what I'll keep it to.
stuburns said:
Oh. Well, Let's Tap is a Yuji Naka, game, right?
As for HotD, I know it's developed by Headstrong Games, but I don't know if they're part of SEGA or independent.
Also, I don't remember what upcoming SEGA games are being developed in-house, to be honest. I can't think of anything besides Sonic Unleashed (played the demo, hated it) and Sonic & the Black Knight (good graphics, but very suspicious premise). I think it's unfair to judge SEGA as a whole based on Sonic alone, to be honest
.Sega had several big let downs on the next gen systems
Viking is one Goldenaxe is another.. Sonic Unleashed probably will follow suit.. (especially in comparison to the Wii version)..The Japanese focused games like Yakuza Kenzan or Valkyria Chronicle did not do all that well.
Its evident that Sega will focus on the Wii in the future.. its cheaper and they are having good results on it..
unlike Unleashed.. the Black Knight is developed by the guys that did Secret Rings.. And that was considered not excellent but good game
Viking is one Goldenaxe is another.. Sonic Unleashed probably will follow suit.. (especially in comparison to the Wii version)..The Japanese focused games like Yakuza Kenzan or Valkyria Chronicle did not do all that well.
Its evident that Sega will focus on the Wii in the future.. its cheaper and they are having good results on it..
Kilrogg said:Oh. Well, Let's Tap is a Yuji Naka, game, right?
As for HotD, I know it's developed by Headstrong Games, but I don't know if they're part of SEGA or independant.
Also, I don't remember what upcoming SEGA games are being developed in-house, to be honest. I can't think of anything besides Sonic Unleashed (played the demo, hated it) and Sonic & the Black Knight (good graphics, but very suspicious premise). I think it's unfair to judge SEGA as a whole based on Sonic alone, to be honest
unlike Unleashed.. the Black Knight is developed by the guys that did Secret Rings.. And that was considered not excellent but good game
farnham said:
What? Is the gameplay different in the Wii version? The demo I tried was for the 360.
It still had some issues, like tacked-on motion controls at times, an awful soundtrack and a gimped Sonic at the beginning of the games. Basically, it showed that it was rushed,, but the core game was decent, yeah.
Kilrogg said:
Man, such a wonderful point right here.
farnham said:
You hush. Kenzan has sold over 300k+ by now and it getting another awesome game in the series and Valkyria Chronicles is a wonderful game. yazuka and Valkyria Chronicles are the few bright spots in the sea of shit that is Sega (VF5 as well).
Kintaro said:
I'm sorry, maybe some GAFfers' liking for sarcasm has made me paranoid, but I can't tell if you're being serious or not.
Either way, I found the article I had in mind when I typed that post; here it is: http://www.casualgaming.biz/news/27415/A-History-of-Casual-Play
It's actually much worse than what I previously said: while Pacman and Super Mario Bros., for whatever reason, are not mentioned (I wonder why they wouldn't if Tetris is, but oh well), Tetris, Sim City, Space Invaders, Doom and Myst are thrown in. Hell, chess and the game of go, of all games, are dubbed casual games in that article. For God's sake, will anyone try to define what casual games are, now? If any game that is even remotely universally praised and played and started out as a thing created by/for "non-gamers", then hail casual games! Guh, so ridiculous. I propose that, since Tetris is a casual game, that any puzzle game that is more complex (whatever that means) be dubbed hardcore and better. Also, I'm sure professional go players would be thrilled to know that they're "casual". It's as if I had a nightmare in which an obscure, meaningless internet meme became widespread despite its utter absurdity. Except that's not a nightmare.
Kilrogg said:
I was agreeing with you. I was thinking of this recently as well. Super Mario Bros, when it came out, would never have been considered "casual". In fact, none of them would have been. The kids playing those games had parents who wanted no part of it. Now, these same kids (such as myself) are the parents who then get New Super Mario Bros. for themselves and their children. Now, all of a sudden, the entire franchise is "casual".
It's simple. Gaming has spanned a generation. The kids turned parents just continue to game along side their kids. Then, some jackasses had to come up with labels for it all. So we get "casual" and "hardcore" and we try our damnedest to shove games into it's place. Where do you put Call of Duty 4? It sold 10 million copies. Is it casual now? World of Warcraft has 11 million subscribers. Casual? Hardcore? Is something hardcore until it sells well, then it turns casual?
Actually, that's probably it.
Sim City...:lol I remember playing the original so much as a kid and my friends thought it was so lame because it was too hard and you didn't shoot things. In depth city management? Ha! Who knew I was playing a casual game all this time. >.>
Kintaro said:
Likewise, Mega Man is hardcore, just because it's hard. Nevermind the fact that it was heavily-inspired by Astroboy, had goofy robots and was played with two buttons and a D-pad AND you could choose your level, making it... Oh God, accessible!?! Anyone could play it!? What? You mean that it was thematically geared towards kids? So, you mean... Casual??. Nope, apparently, it's hard, therefore it's hardcore.
And this is not really a jab at "hardcore" gamers or the hardcore gaming press (although I'm sure they played a role in the whole meme), but rather an example of how absurd the whole thing is.
This is why I hope people like Jen Tsao don't become too prominent: I hate the gaming press as it is, but I'd equally hate it if it became "casual", and it'd be worse if press people like that joined developers and publishers.
PolyGone said:
While of course "who you know" matters a lot, don't forget all the accumulated experience that Jen has that will be directly transferable to her new job---project management, personnel management, etc. She is an adult who has worked successfully in a stressful, deadline intensive environment for years. You guys really have no idea what Jen does or what she's capable of or what her qualifications are---passing judgment on her qualifications is just a bit...oh, what should we call it?--RETARDED of you.
I'm not saying you're retarded, PolyGone---I just mean a lot of this thread in general.
(Now, me, I got my job at EA strictly on my looks!)
Some people seem to be making the false assumption that mainstream is the same as casual. A game like COD4 definitely appeals to a core gamer, the high sales just means it hit the mainstream. On the flip side you have a game like Peggle, which is a casual game by nature but doesn't quite have the sales to be considered mainstream. And then there's titles like WiiFit, which appeal to a casual audience and have very high sales.
It's not necessarily about pigeon-holing people into a specific type of gamer, it's just that there is definitely different groups of people these days that are driving the big sales in the gaming market. You have core gamers buying the mainstream core titles, and you have the casual gamers buying titles such as WiiFit.
Anyway, happy trails Jen. Hope everything goes well at Sega!
It's not necessarily about pigeon-holing people into a specific type of gamer, it's just that there is definitely different groups of people these days that are driving the big sales in the gaming market. You have core gamers buying the mainstream core titles, and you have the casual gamers buying titles such as WiiFit.
Anyway, happy trails Jen. Hope everything goes well at Sega!
RichyDevil
Member
JeffGreen said:
Incredibly well said. My God I love you, Jeff Green. Never stop posting or blogging.
Good luck Jen! I will miss you 'round the 1UP world.
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
woah, lots of people read 1UP here
I'll be sad only if Ellie Gibson from Eurogamer leaves. Girl can write some real hilarious stuff
I'll be sad only if Ellie Gibson from Eurogamer leaves. Girl can write some real hilarious stuff
PolyGone said:
Except...
She's proven she can manage a magazine and its staff. She's smart, a talented writer and editor, and knows how to deal with people. She's worked as a managing editor for two of the best game magazines out there: Next Generation and EGM.
She has more than eight years' worth of editorial and management experience.
Do you still want to suggest that someone who plays a lot of games is as qualified as Jennifer to work as a manager for casual games at Sega?
Topher said:
No offense, but this seems like a fairly stupid statement. Aren't most jobs stepping stones?
The day of the American worker spending his entire working career at one job is, like the day of hardcore gaming, over.
Automatisch
Member
I think a lot of people have this strange idea that everyone that writes in the games industry has to have the same tastes as the people that post on here. What does it care what she likes or not? Jen was still a great asset to the mag/site.
Barkley's Justice
Member
jen, your groupies are out of control over here!!
Beer Monkey
Member
Remember when Jen brought those Wii soccer moms on the show? I wonder if those ladies still find the Wii as life-changing as they did back then.
What a useless way of thinking about it. Are you telling me that criticism (and whatever separates it from CR in your mind) can't possibly be done consistently? I don't know what these monikers mean to you anyway. If trying to make reviews useful, as actual sources of information and not just jumps onto the news bandwagon, makes them "consumer reports", then yes, I want consumer reports.rocksolidaudio said:
I don't mean to insult Jenn Tsao personally, but as a reviewer, what I perceived of her with my minimal attention (1upshow mostly plus some podcasts) was that she always seemed anti-analytic and just let herself be carried away by the magic of the moment. She was reliably willing to make excuses for games with obvious flaws for reasons unknown probably even to herself.
That's a way to do reviews that I really really don't approve of.
Monocle
Member
Is that question even relevant? Most of the best games in recent memory have been aimed squarely at the hardcore crowd. None of the designers I listed in my earlier post are known for creating casual franchises. In fact, the only game industry legend I can think of whose claim to fame is mainly casual titles is Shigeru Miyamato, and look at his track record lately. I wouldn't go so far as to suggest he hasn't had a truly fresh idea in years, but it's doubtful that anyone in their right mind would call Wii Fit and Wii Music works of strong creative vision. At best, they're experimental digressions while he figures out where he wants to take the next installments of Zelda and Mario.Jirotrom said:
Struct09 said:
I don't know if I'm included in that "some people" you start your post with, but I'll assume I am:
First, I'm well aware that some of those using such words don't use them in a condescending way (including you, fortunately), which reassures me a bit.
However, my problem with the whole casual/hardcore divide is that it adds one more layer of blurry mess to the whole thing, which lends itself well to clichés. While you may be aware that things aren't clear-cut, others may not. "Casual" and "hardcore" are words that try to include every kind of people that play games, and, in my opinion, they fail to do so. That is the root.
I'm honestly baffled that, of all people, those whose mother tongue is English would not see the problem with the word "casual". Depending on the context, it can be either positive or pejorative. You wouldn't come across this problem in a language like French (or others), where you'd say "occasionnel", which means just that: occasional. "Casual", on the other hand, has a pejorative meaning as well, and we can't afford to define categories of games with such ambiguous terms.
Words are important, especially if we're going to use them for categorizing purposes. What is a casual gamer? What is a casual game? Hardcore gamer? Hardcore game? If casual and hardcore are opposed in some fashion, and if a casual player is someone who plays games only occasionally, then surely, someone who plays Peggle, Wii Fit, Tetris or whatever so-called casual game a lot is not a casual gamer, right? Conversely, someone who hasn't got the time to play a lot, and thus plays, say, Resident Evil in short bursts (thank you, saves) is a casual gamer, right? However, listening to some people (like the gaming press), it's the other way around. Go figure.
My point is that, if we're going to have a chosen set of words to clearly define categories of people and games, then we should use words that match realities, and to do that, we have to use words with a broad, yet unequivocal meaning. In that sense, I must admit I like Nintendo's way of talking about an expanded audience, which includes every person that now plays games because they finally found some that interest them. I'd add former gamers (i.e. every person that used to play games but stopped for whatever reason). "Core gamers" is the only one I'm a bit wary of. I'd rather say "core customer" or "mainstream customer". But that latter issue stems from the fact that what used to be called "the mainstream audience" in the videogame market is slowly shifting, as growth is mainly seen outside of the traditional crowd of gamers that like long, "epic" games with incredible graphics. Soon, those words won't apply to the same types of customers.
If you ask me, there is one spectrum: the spectrum of bad games, good games, and everything inbetween. Within that spectrum, there are games designed for different purposes, and they are designed to be more or less accessible. And that's pretty much it. What you do with said games, whether you buy a few or a lot, and whether you play it in short bursts, alone, with friends, or in long periods of time, is entirely up to you, and no one should tell you that what you play is inherently casual or hardcore, because those words are empty, and the user alone defines how he is supposed to play.