And wisely so. They've already achieved all advertisement's goal: propagate enough ignorance (or in Call of Duty's case maintain that which is already prevalent) that the consumer will think, upon experiencing it, whatever your product does is magic and just feels right.
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John Carmack: "Many next-gen games will still target 30 fps"
- Thread starter alexandros
- Start date
It introduces 'judder' and doesn't provide an ideal gameplay experience. It's like the difference between 24hz and 60hz for Blu-Ray etc. I can't stand games that aren't locked at a multiple of the refresh - God of War 3 comes to mind. There's a reason why developers target locked 30fps or 60fps framerates.
Gemüsepizza
Member
I'm fine with that. I don't need need 60fps, but I really hope that we can get locked 30 fps with maybe dynamic resolution. Massive dips below 30 fps are not cool.
That's nonsense. The frame rate isn't the sole reason for the success of Call of Duty. And Battlefield 3 certainly isn't a "shitty game".
That's nonsense. The frame rate isn't the sole reason for the success of Call of Duty. And Battlefield 3 certainly isn't a "shitty game".
alexandros
Banned
Anything less than 50 fps is unacceptable in terms of both image fluidity and input lag. Since PC games allow you to choose between quality and framerate if you have a relatively weak computer, I always go for smooth framerate over visual effects. It's just more enjoyable this way.
But I thought the new Xbox was gonna have 52GB of RAM and 4 680s for off-the-shelf parts?
Carmack is just old and doesn't know what he's talking about anymore. Hasn't he seen the Crytek or Unreal 4 engine demos? All games will look like that. Maybe he needs to learn what real programmers look like for once and step into the future.
Carmack is just old and doesn't know what he's talking about anymore. Hasn't he seen the Crytek or Unreal 4 engine demos? All games will look like that. Maybe he needs to learn what real programmers look like for once and step into the future.
lol
StoppedInTracks
Member
He couldn't be more wrong even if he tried :lol :lol :lol
LOLz!!!!
Next-gen games will target 20-25 fps, not 30 fps.
LOLz!!!!
Next-gen games will target 20-25 fps, not 30 fps.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
I am ok with this as long as it remains consistent.
Glass Rebel
Member
Are you referring to the fact that a game suddenly increasing or dropping severely in framerate can introduce a stutter-like effect? Because for me, I can't tell the difference at all between, for example 60 FPS and 55 FPS. And 55 certainly doesn't introduce any "judder." It's just 5 FPS less smooth, which is basically nothing at that frequency.
Gemüsepizza;45539484 said:
ask a average guy grabbing the 360 version of both games why he is picking COD over battlefield. it "feels" better, its more "fun." you see him play he runs around in a responsive game gets shot hits X to comeback runs around more dies, gets a kill, dies, runs more and he is still having that elusive fun
battlefield on consoles feel like youre running through mud to get anywhere. and after running for 30 secs in a slow sloggy mess of a game you get snipped and go back to your spawn to repeat the process. 60 FPS wont fix the design aspect of that, but will go a long way to fixing that sloppy soggy feel the game has, and the average cod player wont instantly turn it off after the first death
but it wont happen, and battlefield will never reach COD's level of sales
Sentenza
Member
Yeah, there's a bit of irony in it.
"console gamers don't care about 60 fps, they don't even notice them", and then one of the very few shooters running at 60 fps systematically outsells every other contender and its fanbase go around babbling about "I dunno man, it just feels so much smoother and better than the other shoooterz!" without even realizing exactly why.
Interestingly enough, on PC where 60 fps are very common if your system can achieve them, CoD is barely more popular than most other shooters. And I think BF3 outsold it.
But the Cod games don't maintain 60fps on consoles and average in the 40's and 50's.
except on all the console exclusives which there are many..this is why i have and always will own a cutting edge rig along with the latest consoles...i gotta have my console exclusives otherwise i'd be missing out on a heap of bad ass games which never see the daylight on a PC.
Sentenza
Member
"I don't care what this topic is about, let me make a pointless complaint about an entirely unrelated thing".
nah, it's what I WANT from next gen to be fixed. All this talk about FPS is silly at this point. Besides since when is one not allowed to express their opinion over a subject?
So yeah, "I don't care if every single game doesn't have 60fps", I would rather they fix lag and glitches/bugs when next gen begins.
Gemüsepizza
Member
It's not entirely unrelated. Some people think that 60 fps gives them an edge in MP games, "because it is more fluid". But that's of course nonsense, at least regarding consoles, because everybody has the same framerate here.
its not the audiences fault that they dont recognize what they like about a game, because not everyone is savy enough to disect that. its the competition's fault for giving Activision the monopoly on what people like
for example this guy -
this guy doesnt care about p2p, dedicated servers, patches. he just wants his lag "fixed." so Cod hides their detection and hit registration better than other games, so instantly COD is a better product to him. instead of telling him about why he lags, and why it cant be fixed, design your product in a way so he doesnt notice it so he will buy your crap
Why does Microsoft actively hate PC gaming? Why would Halo / Gears / Forza on Windows be a bad thing? They own Windows! It's a benefit to their own platform!
Canis lupus
Member
And I won't care, I didn't have too much of a problem with 30fps games this gen.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
They ultimately want to sell you an expensive walled garden console.
Gemüsepizza
Member
OT: They don't get money from game sales (and services) like on Xbox. And almost everybody has Windows already.
Sentenza
Member
Because your opinion is ignorant and completely unrelated to the subject, for a start, as "fixing lag" has virtually nothing to do with how the computational power of a given hardware is used.
It's all about efficient netcode, good servers, good internet connections, etc.
Where did I mention COD? Stop acting like know it all douche. Not everyone has to agree with you in life, in case you mom didn't tell you.
The point is I don't need every game to be 60 fps. Uncharted and most of the my favorites of this gen were (most likely) 30fps. The fact is most of the people can't even tell the difference between 30 vs 60. Would it be great if magically all game were 60fps? YES, but it is not going to happen.
you can call it uneducated opinion, not ignorant. Those are issues that I wan't to get fixed, some people want 60fps that you won't get, neither will I get mine. Your comments are aggressive and ignorant, since you are not open minded enough to just correct me if I am wrong, instead attack, calling someone ignorant, you know typical stuff that ignorant people do
What would be the point of Microsoft making a console then if they don't keep in house software exclusive to their console? Wasn't PC/PS3 a common combination before Microsoft wised up and kept Gears of War 2-3 and all Halos after 2 off of Windows?
Sentenza
Member
Sure. Whatever makes you sleep well, mate.
But that's fine, let's handle the topic in your way:
Do you know what I care about, way more than 60 fps? Good pizza.
Yeah, you heard me! Good pizza is important as fuck.
Next gen wont support pizza either.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
And yet most of them fail to even reach 30...
BibiMaghoo
Member
30 fps is no surprise.
Neither odd 720p games.
How many people have only HD ready sets? How many don't have hd at all?
Probably only half the gamers I know have actual 1080p sets. Many people don't care at all.
Neither odd 720p games.
How many people have only HD ready sets? How many don't have hd at all?
Probably only half the gamers I know have actual 1080p sets. Many people don't care at all.
BibiMaghoo
Member
It also means more bad ports...
What would you think if someone came into a thread saying Obama's awesome/Romney should have been president/RON PAUL 2016 SERIOUSLY GUYS? Yeah, you're free to share your opinions, but people don't like them being brought up without connection to the topic.
Anyways, reducing lag isn't something they can fully control, to a degree it's simply not fully solvable. But something like 60 FPS they actively make a choice on and have near-full control over, so it's a fairer point to hope for improvement on versus eliminating lag or stuffing high capacity SSDs in every system (would probably do the Wii U's OS wonders at least).
The wonders of a gaming PC! So long as they aren't dumb/shortsighted and lock the FPS anyway.
Pretty much a given. Developers like pretty effects over frames. Which is fine with me as long as its a stable framerate.
I seriously doubt 60fps has anything to do with the series being so popular.
I seriously doubt 60fps has anything to do with the series being so popular.
I'd much rather have better graphics than 60fps. Doesn't bother me at all.
Wut. You serious, bro? I guarantee that the average CoD player doesn't say "I play CoD because it has a higher framerate".
Wut. You serious, bro? I guarantee that the average CoD player doesn't say "I play CoD because it has a higher framerate".