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Jordan Peterson tries to debunk "white privilege"
- Thread starter Alfadawg
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SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
And the alt right see the jews as jews and must be exterminated giving them endless oppression points. But wait, they are part of the oppressing class. So they must be exterminated along with the rest of the white males. Now that's racism so back up the oppression hierarchy they go!
How people who are entrenched in far leftist identity politics actually manage to breath inbetween their own contradictory rage outbursts is truly amazing.
ilfait
Member
Where did this story come from, and what's the evidence that it's race-based? People don't like hanging out with other people for a thousand reasons.
Death Dealer
Member
Yes it is. Have you read about the Harvard admissions scandal ?
What about medical school acceptance rates ? Asian people get screwed. Black and Hispanics with stats that would never get them admitted if they were Asian or White get in. Asians have to do even better than anyone else to get accepted.
And I'm not talking about small differences. "Oh we have one slot left, we have two qualified aspiring doctors, one black, one Asian. We'll admit the black person because they have it worse in life." No, I'm not talking about people of wildly different qualifications, being discriminated against or given unfair advantages due to race.
Just one example: A black student with a 3.7 GPA and 25 MCAT was admitted to a medical college 74.9% of the time. An Asian student with the same exact stats only gets into medical school 16.6% of the time.
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/factstablea24.html
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/data/factstablea24-3.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321514/data/factstablea24-2.pdf
Affirmative action racism has got to end. I expect the SCOTUS will be doing that soon. It should be illegal to even ask someone's race in a college admissions package or job application.
Have you looked at the unemployment rate ? It's totally at odds with your baseless assertion.
You're one of the lower quality trolls on this forum.
Ulysses 31
Member
Cybrwzrd
Banned
I can take a guess where it came from, but it is a place that the sun doesn't shine too often.
ilfait
Member
Tom Selleck's upper lip.
gunslikewhoa
Member
Why even respond...it's just such a dumb a post.
ilfait
Member
Curiosity and willingness to give someone the benefit of the doubt.
gunslikewhoa
Member
Good luck.
ickythingz
Banned
Is that the history of tribes mercilessly killing each other for 100s/1000s of years and then, when Jewish people showed up, these same black tribesmen sold their prisoners of war to the Jews as slaves? That history?
Gander
Banned
Tell me how it smells
https://money.cnn.com/2018/06/15/technology/google-diversity-report/index.html
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Nailed it!
Cybrwzrd
Banned
You are making assumptions from that article. It says nothing about that in it.
All Hail C-Webb
Hailing from the Chill-Web
There are plenty of white people who acknowledge their white privelege. Most of us are quite successful.
The people who deny white privelege are the one's who don't want to acknowledge their failures.
I want to say it's odd that there are people who would deny their own advantages, but then, Donald Trump and Kylie Jenner are self-made.
Battersea Power Station
Member
Words are words. The community that coined and popularized the term "privilege" probably thought it would get their point across quickly, or be able to quickly summarize the problem. That might've been an error, since when you call someone privileged it tends to immediately put them on the defensive.
In reality, of course, the issue of systemic disadvantage needs essays and books to be understood fully, so you can't expect any word or phrase to capture its essence.
You'll notice any marketing term, like pro-choice, pro-life, War on Drugs, War on Terror, is largely terrible at describing the underlying stance or event.
Chairman Tickles
Banned
If high IQ is an advantage, then consider me privileged. I'd like to think that has little to do with skin pigmentation.
Beyond this of course a predominantly European society will be tailored for European cultures and mindsets. If I move to Korea I'm not going to expect to fit in overnight. Or for them to change to fit me in. And that's ok. Their culture, their rules.
I spent some time in China. It's like another planet. With the good and the bad. A white or black man can never be Chinese. Is this a problem? I don't care, their rules. I noticed when Chinese come to Europe or Australia they retain their Chinese identity and don't expect special treatment. Good for them. Fair treatment is good enough.
Australian aborigines get a plethora of advantage and government handouts above and beyond everyone else. It has done them no good, they've only become dependent on welfare and alcohol. When you don't have to work or aspire to anything, you have no plans for the future and by proxy you have no future.
Beyond this of course a predominantly European society will be tailored for European cultures and mindsets. If I move to Korea I'm not going to expect to fit in overnight. Or for them to change to fit me in. And that's ok. Their culture, their rules.
I spent some time in China. It's like another planet. With the good and the bad. A white or black man can never be Chinese. Is this a problem? I don't care, their rules. I noticed when Chinese come to Europe or Australia they retain their Chinese identity and don't expect special treatment. Good for them. Fair treatment is good enough.
Australian aborigines get a plethora of advantage and government handouts above and beyond everyone else. It has done them no good, they've only become dependent on welfare and alcohol. When you don't have to work or aspire to anything, you have no plans for the future and by proxy you have no future.
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BLAUcopter
Gold Member
I'm white and wouldn't exactly call my upbringing privileged. This "all white people" and "all black people" rhetoric needs to die in the ass.
Chairman Tickles
Banned
Indeed. I was literally dodging rocket artillery during my wonderful white priviliged upbringing.
switchback27
Member
Wait, what? Where was this upbringing? Genuinely curious.
Heres the thing though. This all comes from the democratic party, and liberals. They dont know how to actively engage in a conversation so they always use confrontational language and then call you names.
Think about the insanity in politics right now, and the state of public and private discourse. Shouting down speakers, protesting by blocking highways, covering faces and starting fights and fires, constant name calling using extreme terminology (nazi, bigot, racist for wanting strong borders).
There is a reason for this. The majority usually dont agree with the stances they champion(high taxes, socialism, open borders, restricted speech)so they use the "wear you down" method of the aforementioned tactics.
It's obvious as to why it's called "white privilege".
It takes the heat off of their own failings and if they say it enough, and often enough it becomes part of the vernacular so people either start to believe it(small %)or they mock it(large %)
You cant get a point across if it's obviously flawed and ignorant, so everyone who doesn't agree is a white privileged nazi.
Also, and interesting point to be made about the person really responsible for the term white privilege Theodore W. Allen. He was a self avowed Marixist and was a member of the communist party.
The irony is palpable when you consider who uses that term these days.
https://solidarity-us.org/atc/191/p5126/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_W._Allen
I couldnt even make this up.
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
Trying to make white people feel like they're doing something wrong by simply existing is literally the WORST thing the left wing could have done and they did it.
Even if there's some truth to the idea of white privilege (there isn't) some things are better left unsaid for the good of the whole, trying to make anyone feel like they're in a catch 22 where they're doing something wrong no matter what they do is not going to win many people over, people just don't like that shit.
Even if there's some truth to the idea of white privilege (there isn't) some things are better left unsaid for the good of the whole, trying to make anyone feel like they're in a catch 22 where they're doing something wrong no matter what they do is not going to win many people over, people just don't like that shit.
haxan7
Banned
Donald Trump and Kylie Jenner are self-made if your definition of self-made includes "born into levels of wealth, privilege, and fame that less than 99.9% of people (no matter their race, ethnicity, or gender) will ever see."
Papa
Banned
I don't believe it was an innocent word choice that has now devolved into unintended consequences. In fact, quite the contrary: I believe it was very carefully selected to suit an ideological agenda, namely the oppressor-oppressed dynamic that is used to justify power grabs by the latter. The situation now is that the term "privilege" has become a big stick with which to beat purported oppressors over the head with and it also acts as a criticism shield for genuine racism, i.e. the idiotic power + prejudice equation. Moreover, the underlying premise that people can be put into an oppressor class based on immutable characteristics like race, sex, and sexual orientation is hateful to the core. It is quite literally the same psychological mechanism that Hitler used to justify his platform and is entirely the wrong side of the coin to focus on if your intentions are genuinely altruistic.
Pro-choice, pro-life, War on Drugs, and War on Terror were all also very carefully selected. I think Bill Hicks' take on marketing is very relevant here.
Cato
Banned
I think it was former Yugoslavia. Once you find the quote where he talks about this here on GAF you see one of the replies from "one of the tolerant left" folks dismissing it with "I don't care about your third world bullshit".
Amazing stuff.
D
Deleted member 713885
Unconfirmed Member
Theirs no such thing as White Privilege. Theirs a such thing as Majority Privilege.
What ever race or color the population is dominate in will determine the privilege factor.
In Zimbabwe, my white skin means nothing. In Japan my race means nothing.
Also, we, i.e. White people, have help give birth to the most powerful dominate culture the modern world has seen. So, in doing so we have gained the privilege thats has come with it.
I wont diminish the work and progress my culture/skin color has achieved and not be proud.
What ever race or color the population is dominate in will determine the privilege factor.
In Zimbabwe, my white skin means nothing. In Japan my race means nothing.
Also, we, i.e. White people, have help give birth to the most powerful dominate culture the modern world has seen. So, in doing so we have gained the privilege thats has come with it.
I wont diminish the work and progress my culture/skin color has achieved and not be proud.
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It's Jeff
Banned
You're bringing up the biggest problem when it comes to white privilege. Let's presume that all white people benefit from it. To what end? What exactly are we going to do about it?
Beside trying to make people feel guilty for the happenstance of their birth genetics, what exactly is the purpose of the white privilege campaign?
Papa
Banned
I remember that. It was unbelievable - MrTickles was describing his family having to escape certain death by crawling through fields of barbed wire, and the person's response was tantamount to "nuh uh, you're still white so you're privileged". Someone needs to dig it up and link it here as it was such a good example of the doublethink required to make such assertions.
D
Deleted member 713885
Unconfirmed Member
And it's still a problem
The black mans biggest enemy is his own kind.
From black on black crime to "Stop snitching".
Arkage
Banned
To be fair it's the opposite for jobs in general. A black sounding name gets less callbacks and less interviews than a white sounding name even when the resumes are exactly the same.
https://www.politifact.com/punditfa...name-resume-50-percent-less-likely-get-respo/
Affirmative action in general tries to combat this kind of pervasive racism directly. The problem is that the places in which affirmative action typically exists are places where there wasn't much racism to begin with, like liberal college campuses. All that ends up doing is making it look like you don't need it at all, when in actually it's just a poor application of a still valuable idea, until there's a better one that makes people stop being racist over black sounding names.
haxan7
Banned
Pretty sure that person is over on Resetera actively engaging in discussions that draw attention to the plights of the disadvantaged, delve ever deeper into the subtle ways that the privileged continually oppress those less advantaged than themselves, and create literaly gold nuggets from a single carbon atom.
It is in this way that we will save the world. /billnye
Cato
Banned
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/what...s-at-the-border.1463203/page-2#post-253306797
Amazing stuff. Words of a truly tolerant person with a big heart for his fellow man.
Papa
Banned
I think you're close to the answer, but you're still focusing on race so, as Peterson would say, "you're playing the same bloody game". The answer lies in culture, i.e. the core set of values, not race, which is an immutable characteristic.
The Chinese are such successful immigrants because their culture values education and hard work. They will even go as far as to choose an English name to make cultural assimilation easier. Cultures that refuse to assimilate will not be as successful, simple as that. That doesn't mean they can't co-exist or should be prevented from immigrating; rather, it means that you shouldn't look at group-level outcomes, assume that they should be equal, and work your way backwards to enforce inequality of opportunity at the individual level in a misguided attempt to achieve equality of outcome at the group level. There are so many variables inbetween, which was Peterson's main point in the OP's video, so I don't see how it's controversial at all.
cpp_is_king
Member
Is it normal that you can't view a poster's history after they've been banned? I wanted to check which specific post it was, but it just says that the user's profile doesn't exist.
Papa
Banned
Oh, hahaha I'm not surprised it was G gohepcat , who is basically the archetypal angry internet person who starts at a foregone conclusion and tries to work his way backwards to confirm his bias. I never did hear back from him on this one: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/the-rational-left-ot.1463721/page-2#post-253348124.
Papa
Banned
Again, stop focusing on the race aspect of "black" and focus on the culture aspect. I agree that black culture, generally speaking, is stuck in a feedback loop that perpetuates many of the group-level disparities, namely crime statistics. However, there is an argument to be made that the current state of black culture evolved from historical oppression that they obviously had no control over. I just happen to disagree with anyone who would argue that reparations or affirmative action are reasonable solutions.
All Hail C-Webb
Hailing from the Chill-Web
I hope that goes without saying.
I'd get myself banned responding to this, so I'll just leave it at, wow.
You're not supposed to feel guilty about being white, it's quite the opposite. White privilege is basically admitting that you were lucky to be white. That by being white, your odds of having a better life with more opportunity are increased.
It doesn't mean that white people can't draw the short straw and face difficult times. But the odds are that a minority born into the same situation will face even more hurdles.
Don't be ashamed of being white. Acknowledge your privilege and have empathy for others.
The fringe might try to push it further than that, but if we listened to the fringe on the Right, we'd be starting our days with a Sieg Heil.
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
The only thing I can think of that might be coming down the pike if the left wing ever gets back in power is a "white tax"
Basically if you're white you have to pay more taxes solely for the benefit of more welfare money for non-whites, don't like that? Then a you're a Nazi.
Not that forcing whites to pay more taxes would actually make them shut up with talk about white privilege, they'd find some other angle or dangle because the whole thing is predicated on open bigotry against white people, they want to gives whites a "taste of their own medicine" and make them feel as miserable as I guess what it was like to be non-white pre-civil rights.
"social justice" these days is about anything but justice, it's about pure, petty vindictiveness and a thirst for vengeance, they probably wouldn't be happy until they could go around killing certain white people like the bolsheviks were killing the upper classes 100 years ago.
That's what all this bullshit talk of "white privilege" and other similar ideas fundamentally boils down to, it's the sugar coating for the poison medicine of pure hate of white people (much of which, to be clear, comes from self loathing white people)
If people don't start waking up and moving away from all this radical, divisive rhetoric things are going to get REAL fucking ugly.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
There's a great divide between whether or not "white privilege" exists and what the appropriate response to it is. There are all sorts of argumens about what it is, how prevalent it is, how "hidden" and innate and built-in it is, how far back it does or doesn't go, and so forth. The existence of "white privilege" is constantly discussed. Let's suspend that: what do you propose we do about it?
Let's call "white privilege" what it actually is: guilt. Whether you actually have more privilege is irrelevant. You were born white and therefore you have it. Doesn't matter that you descended from poor Irish immigrants or if you were an orphan. Nahh, "you white", so it means you have something to apologize for. It's a fake privilege, too, because if it was just "privilege" then we could tally up and calculate how much of it you had. Unfortunately, "white privilege" is this limitless, undefinable, unstoppable amount of privilege that has no limit and no boundaries. Quite a boogeyman.
At what point do we stop "keeping score"? I have Irish and Jewish and German ancestry. I'm sure I could tally up my oppressions and privileges and maybe come out ahead? I'm honestly not sure. But what if I go further back and find my distant relatives had been slaves of so-and-so, does that cancel out my "white privilege"?
No one can provide The Scorekeeping Rules for privilege. No one can agree upon them. What are the statute of limitations? How far back into your ancestory can you go? All this double-speak about "white privilege" is entirely meaningless until you can give me a distinct definition and parameters for determining how much privilege I have. Otherwise you're just a racist spouting off racist garbage trying to use my race against me.
C'mon, give me the scores. I'd like to know if my light skin could be cancelled out by previous hardships of my ancestors, and if not I'd like to know for how much I'm still "guilty" for and what it'll take to pay it back.
And no, "we'll tell you when we know" isn't acceptable. That's the crux of Jordan Peterson's argument, and he's completely right. It's irrelevant if you think white privilege is real or not. Even if you assume it is, there has been no acceptable proposal to resolve it. It's nothing but an ongoing guilt-fest.
And no, you don't get to hold me guilty just because someone with the same skin as mine behaved a certain way or said a certain thing. Guilt by association is one of the most common tools used against minorities, but now it's okay if it's white people? Weird.
At this point, either propose the correct way to "keep track" of privilege and how to rebalance it, or shut the fuck up about it. Because the more the Left whines about privilege, the closer people examine it and find out how much of a ghost's fart it is.
Let's call "white privilege" what it actually is: guilt. Whether you actually have more privilege is irrelevant. You were born white and therefore you have it. Doesn't matter that you descended from poor Irish immigrants or if you were an orphan. Nahh, "you white", so it means you have something to apologize for. It's a fake privilege, too, because if it was just "privilege" then we could tally up and calculate how much of it you had. Unfortunately, "white privilege" is this limitless, undefinable, unstoppable amount of privilege that has no limit and no boundaries. Quite a boogeyman.
At what point do we stop "keeping score"? I have Irish and Jewish and German ancestry. I'm sure I could tally up my oppressions and privileges and maybe come out ahead? I'm honestly not sure. But what if I go further back and find my distant relatives had been slaves of so-and-so, does that cancel out my "white privilege"?
No one can provide The Scorekeeping Rules for privilege. No one can agree upon them. What are the statute of limitations? How far back into your ancestory can you go? All this double-speak about "white privilege" is entirely meaningless until you can give me a distinct definition and parameters for determining how much privilege I have. Otherwise you're just a racist spouting off racist garbage trying to use my race against me.
C'mon, give me the scores. I'd like to know if my light skin could be cancelled out by previous hardships of my ancestors, and if not I'd like to know for how much I'm still "guilty" for and what it'll take to pay it back.
And no, "we'll tell you when we know" isn't acceptable. That's the crux of Jordan Peterson's argument, and he's completely right. It's irrelevant if you think white privilege is real or not. Even if you assume it is, there has been no acceptable proposal to resolve it. It's nothing but an ongoing guilt-fest.
And no, you don't get to hold me guilty just because someone with the same skin as mine behaved a certain way or said a certain thing. Guilt by association is one of the most common tools used against minorities, but now it's okay if it's white people? Weird.
At this point, either propose the correct way to "keep track" of privilege and how to rebalance it, or shut the fuck up about it. Because the more the Left whines about privilege, the closer people examine it and find out how much of a ghost's fart it is.
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Papa
Banned
The thing about the black name argument is it's so easy to fix. If you value climbing the hierarchy, choose a name that will help you succeed, just like Chinese immigrants do. If you value your sub-culture and having a unique name, choose that. It's entirely within your control, so don't complain and try to upend the system because you don't get to have your cake and eat it too.
All Hail C-Webb
Hailing from the Chill-Web
I searched his name, and looked through a bunch of posts, but couldn't find it.
I'm hoping it's not a long ban. He's one of the most active opposition posters on here. If you remove his posts from certain threads they would read like the Rights version of reset.
Grey Specter
Neo Member
There are misinterpretations of what white privilege truly implies, namely the fact it doesn't claim that a poor white man is better off than a rich black man. I don't think I've ever heard anybody claim that other than those constructing their men of straw.
What privilege really implies is that you have an inherent advantage due to your race and cultural upbringing. I can't say I agree with all of it but I fully understand the point when people bring up privilege. It's less what wealth you currently possess, more the means and obstacles required to get there.
What privilege really implies is that you have an inherent advantage due to your race and cultural upbringing. I can't say I agree with all of it but I fully understand the point when people bring up privilege. It's less what wealth you currently possess, more the means and obstacles required to get there.
Grinchy
Banned
No, the ones who like to pretend that there's this mysterious superpower for white-skinned humans are the ones who can't acknowledge their failures. When something goes wrong in their lives, or they fail at somethign, it's inexplicably white people keeping them down. Didn't get that job? It's because I didn't have white privilege. Didn't get that loan? It's because I don't have white privilege.
It never ends for people like that. Once they let themselves blame an unspecified boogeyman for all of their shortcomings instead of looking in the mirror, it's hard to get out of that mindset. And unfortunately, it's probably a mindset passed down from their parents.
Papa
Banned
I will ask again: why is the focus on perceived advantage rather than demonstrable disadvantage?
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cpp_is_king
Member
I'm pretty heavily conservative, and I am a white male, but I do think there is some truth in the white privilege claims. The thing is, as with most largely partisan issues, the other side blows it way out of proportion to the point that the only thing rational people can do is just eyeroll. When I get pulled over by a policeman, I don't have to worry about getting shot, and I might even be able to get off with a warning. When I'm walking down the street, people don't move to the other side of the street. But when you turn this into "your opinion about everything is now invalid because fuck you" all it does is show that you're not actually interested in solutions, you're just interested in "vengeance". And at that point, people are just going to stop listening and empathizing with your problems, because quite frankly, we have better shit to do than listen to people sit around throwing temper tantrums.
I'm genuinely interested in looking for productive ways to help prop marginalized groups up so they can enjoy the same privileges, but the key word here is productive.
I'm genuinely interested in looking for productive ways to help prop marginalized groups up so they can enjoy the same privileges, but the key word here is productive.
JordanN
Banned
But this is being facetious.
Why are you assuming all minorities are born in places where whites are? If anything, geography proves the complete opposite. Most non-white people are born away from other white people, yet it's non-whites who are leaving their countries to live where whites are!
If your point is to say "whites are luckier to be born in white countries" well, duh. But where else do white people come from or congregate? I don't expect whites to move to Japan and slowly take over their country.
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cpp_is_king
Member
There is actually an interesting phenomena here. If you go to just about any country *anywhere*, light skin is a highly prized trait. You mention India. Well, did you know that lighter skin Indians are considered higher class than darker skinned indians, who are usually from the lowest caste? The same is true in Mexico. The same is true in Vietnam. It is true anywhere you go. Light skin being a desirable trait is a phenomena that transcends borders and I'm not personally aware of a single counterexample.
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