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[chaos789]

No one ever discusses classism and it’s relation to race or identity. Classism is the at the heart of many issues. But I know classism is a dirty word in the U.S.

 

[Papa]

I searched his name, and looked through a bunch of posts, but couldn't find it.

I'm hoping it's not a long ban. He's one of the most active opposition posters on here. If you remove his posts from certain threads they would read like the Rights version of reset.

Wrong. That would be Stormfront.

 

[JordanN]

There is actually an interesting phenomena here. If you go to just about any country *anywhere*, light skin is a highly prized trait. You mention India. Well, did you know that lighter skin Indians are considered higher class than darker skinned indians, who are usually from the lowest caste? The same is true in Mexico. The same is true in Vietnam. It is true anywhere you go. Light skin being a desirable trait is a phenomena that transcends borders and I'm not personally aware of a single counterexample.

I believe those are cultural stances and not related to Caucasian Europeans.
People who worked out in the sun all day/farmers would have darker skin. The people with all the wealth where the ones who could afford a house and stayed inside.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Southeast-Asians-love-white-skin

 

[It's Jeff]

You're not supposed to feel guilty about being white, it's quite the opposite. White privilege is basically admitting that you were lucky to be white. That by being white, your odds of having a better life with more opportunity are increased.

It doesn't mean that white people can't draw the short straw and face difficult times. But the odds are that a minority born into the same situation will face even more hurdles.

Don't be ashamed of being white. Acknowledge your privilege and have empathy for others.

The fringe might try to push it further than that, but if we listened to the fringe on the Right, we'd be starting our days with a Sieg Heil.

Thanks for the insight. I'm still stuck with the same problem - to what end?

So certainly, I can feel empathy for others (I'm non-white, btw) and that's cool. Done. But what does that look like, realistically? What does that accomplish? What does acknowledging my privilege do if I were white? That's the problem I have. Once I acknowledge it, how does that make anything better?

I'm just confused - I mean, as a minority, what's a white man's empathy supposed to mean to me? Or do for me?

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

And no, you don't get to hold me guilty just because someone with the same skin as mine behaved a certain way or said a certain thing. Guilt by association is one of the most common tools used against minorities, but now it's okay if it's white people? Weird..

This is another thing that makes it such a gross double standard, if whites are supposed to feel collectively guilty over historical crimes why are black people not supposed to feel collective guilt over the crimes other blacks commit in the here and now?

Because that would be racist of course, so why is it ok when applied to whites?

Wrong. That would be Stormfront.

I tell ya man, I remember those Stormfront types from around a decade ago and how they would say things like "anti-racist is a codeword for anti-white" and it seemed so absurd at the time, then the left wing went on to literally spin racist as something only a white person can be, thus proving "anti-racist is a codeword for anti-white" to be true or at least it became true.

When you make actual avowed white supremacists and neo nazis sound like the sane (or at least saner) ones it's time to rethink things, it's like that time on Celebrity Apprentice when Meatloaf lost his shit and made Gary Busey look like the calm, rational one.

 

[Papa]

No one ever discusses classism and it’s relation to race or identity. Classism is the at the heart of many issues. But I know classism is a dirty word in the U.S.

Right, but in Western culture, class is tied to wealth, not race or identity. Sure, there is are correlations between class and race/identity, but as we are reminded so often: correlation is not causation.

 

[Papa]

I believe those are cultural stances and not related to Caucasian Europeans.
People who worked out in the sun all day/farmers would have darker skin. The people with all the wealth where the ones who could afford a house and stayed inside.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Southeast-Asians-love-white-skin

I think you might be onto something, Jordan...

 

[Papa]

This is another thing that makes it such a gross double standard, if whites are supposed to feel collectively guilty over historical crimes why are black people not supposed to feel collective guilt over the crimes other blacks commit in the here and now?

Because that would be racist of course, so why is it ok when applied to whites?



I tell ya man, I remember those Stormfront types from around a decade ago and how they would say things like "anti-racist is a codeword for anti-white" and it seemed so absurd at the time, then the left wing went on to literally spin racist as something only a white person can be, thus proving "anti-racist is a codeword for anti-white" to be true or at least it became true.

When you make actual avowed white supremacists and neo nazis sound like the sane (or at least saner) ones it's time to rethink things, it's like that time on Celebrity Apprentice when Meatloaf lost his shit and made Gary Busey look like the calm, rational one.

Broken clock, etc.

Even if they get the diagnosis partially right, their proposed treatments are 100% wrong.

 

[chaos789]

Right, but in Western culture, class is tied to wealth, not race or identity. Sure, there is are correlations between class and race/identity, but as we are reminded so often: correlation is not causation.

Yeah, but an individual with wealth would surely be treated differently by authorities than someone without. I am suggesting class trumps race/identity.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Moderation ain't even going to give a reason for his ban?

 

[Papa]

Yeah, but an individual with wealth would surely be treated differently by authorities than someone without. I am suggesting class trumps race/identity.

I don't think that's counter to what I said though.

 

[All Hail C-Webb]

But this is being facetious.
Why are you assuming all minorities are born in places where whites are? If anything, geography proves the complete opposite. Most non-white people are born away from other white people, yet it's non-whites who are leaving their countries to live where whites are!

If your point is to say "whites are luckier to be born in white countries" well, duh. But where else do white people come from or congregate? I don't expect whites to move to Japan and slowly take over their country.

Who talks about white privilege on a global sense? I think a lot of the replies here are, like this one, completely disingenuous.
You make arguments against claims that have never been made, it's fucking weird.

 

[It's Jeff]

The only thing I can think of that might be coming down the pike if the left wing ever gets back in power is a "white tax"

Basically if you're white you have to pay more taxes solely for the benefit of more welfare money for non-whites, don't like that? Then a you're a Nazi.

Not that forcing whites to pay more taxes would actually make them shut up with talk about white privilege, they'd find some other angle or dangle because the whole thing is predicated on open bigotry against white people, they want to gives whites a "taste of their own medicine" and make them feel as miserable as I guess what it was like to be non-white pre-civil rights.

"social justice" these days is about anything but justice, it's about pure, petty vindictiveness and a thirst for vengeance, they probably wouldn't be happy until they could go around killing certain white people like the bolsheviks were killing the upper classes 100 years ago.

That's what all this bullshit talk of "white privilege" and other similar ideas fundamentally boils down to, it's the sugar coating for the poison medicine of pure hate of white people (much of which, to be clear, comes from self loathing white people)

If people don't start waking up and moving away from all this radical, divisive rhetoric things are going to get REAL fucking ugly.

And playing minorities against one another, at that. The Harvard admissions concern was brought up previously and we have a real conundrum here.

All conditions can't be the same, that's not how this works. And I won't entertain comparing units of suffering against one another to see who really has it the worst. I will say that historically speaking, treatment of asian cultures in the United States hasn't been spotless. This minority has a higher average income than usual though - so now they have to work harder than others for the same placement?

Let's be realistic here - is what we're really battling here power or income inequity? I don't think we have to divide ourselves along racial lines to address that problem.

 

[JordanN]

Who talks about white privilege on a global sense?

It seems contradictory to say people shouldn't be guilty for being white, but then talk about a concept that only applies in one region of the world.
Like, what is the point then to say people are privileged when you could just as easily say Japanese people have Japan privilege.

And even then, the idea that "whites are privileged, owe up to it!" is a contorted worldview.

Tell the whites in the Soviet Union how fun it was dying by the millions. How fun it must of been to be white and watching your whole family starve to death.

You make arguments against claims that have never been made, it's fucking weird.

You can't make any arguments.

 

[haxan7]

why did the OP get banned?

 

[Shouta]

And playing minorities against one another, at that. The Harvard admissions concern was brought up previously and we have a real conundrum here.

All conditions can't be the same, that's not how this works. And I won't entertain comparing units of suffering against one another to see who really has it the worst. I will say that historically speaking, treatment of asian cultures in the United States hasn't been spotless. This minority has a higher average income than usual though - so now they have to work harder than others for the same placement?

Let's be realistic here - is what we're really battling here power or income inequity? I don't think we have to divide ourselves along racial lines to address that problem.

Asians are a pretty interesting group to bring up in a lot of these dynamics. It's often cited that Asians are doing better than other groups but within that group there's quite a bit of difference. Comparing Southeast Asians to say Chinese or Indian folks is a pretty different picture statistically but oft gets ignored because everyone groups them together without a care to what other dimensions/factors are in there. Boiling it down to one thing makes it easier to wrap the mind around but on the other hand, a lot of vital information is lost that could lead to paths that help people out properly.

If everyone is wondering why the OP was banned, ping one of the mods. They'll probably clarify when they get a chance.

 

[Airola]

A dirt poor white farmer will always have more privilege than a dirt poor black farmer. Do you see?

It's easy for you to dismiss it, being the default.

What if the dirt poor black farmer is stronger? What if the dirt poor white farmer is really weak? What if the dirt poor black farmer looks much more attractive than the dirt poor white farmer? What if the dirt poor black farmer has more relatives than the dirt poor white farmer? What if the soil where the dirt poor black farmer tries to grow food is better than the soil of the dirt poor white farmer? What if the dirt poor black farmer has better talking skills than the dirt poor white farmer? What if the black farmer is more compassionate than the white farmer? What if the black farmer has more friends than the white farmer?

Is a dirt poor white farmer in Finland more privileged than the dirt poor black farmer in some other country? What if the country and town the white farmer lives in is smaller and poorer than the country and town the black farmer lives in?

 

[Arkage]

The thing about the black name argument is it's so easy to fix. If you value climbing the hierarchy, choose a name that will help you succeed, just like Chinese immigrants do. If you value your sub-culture and having a unique name, choose that. It's entirely within your control, so don't complain and try to upend the system because you don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

You do realize that expecting minorities to change their names to a white-sounding one in order to be treated equally is a blatantly obvious example of white privilege?

 

[gohepcat]

Oh, hahaha I'm not surprised it was G gohepcat , who is basically the archetypal angry internet person who starts at a foregone conclusion and tries to work his way backwards to confirm his bias. I never did hear back from him on this one: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/the-rational-left-ot.1463721/page-2#post-253348124.

I’m sorry...what are you talking about?

 

[gohepcat]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/what...s-at-the-border.1463203/page-2#post-253306797

Amazing stuff. Words of a truly tolerant person with a big heart for his fellow man.

Wait....did you mistakenly link a post from me? There were people on that thread calling refugees garbage.

 

[King of Foxes]

why did the OP get banned?

The guy is a pretty obvious troll, it's not like this is the first time someone was banned for being a troll just slightly pretending to be genuine.

Having said that I would like ban reasons on posts but maybe this is an instance of accumulated infractions etc?

 

[It's Jeff]

Asians are a pretty interesting group to bring up in a lot of these dynamics. It's often cited that Asians are doing better than other groups but within that group there's quite a bit of difference. Comparing Southeast Asians to say Chinese or Indian folks is a pretty different picture statistically but oft gets ignored because everyone groups them together without a care to what other dimensions/factors are in there. Boiling it down to one thing makes it easier to wrap the mind around but on the other hand, a lot of vital information is lost that could lead to paths that help people out properly.

If everyone is wondering why the OP was banned, ping one of the mods. They'll probably clarify when they get a chance.

Yeah, it's bizarre. A Filipino is going to have a much different experience than a Korean. I'd argue that it's generalizations like these that denounce the need for ethnic grouping in the first place.

 

[Papa]

You do realize that expecting minorities to change their names to a white-sounding one in order to be treated equally is a blatantly obvious example of white privilege?

No, it’s an example of minority disadvantage, but the key point is that a name is a mutable characteristic.

 

[Papa]

Who talks about white privilege on a global sense? I think a lot of the replies here are, like this one, completely disingenuous.
You make arguments against claims that have never been made, it's fucking weird.

Uh, academic journals are global, so it’s pretty bloody important for “<insert> privilege” to be defined globally.

 

[Gander]

What privilege really implies is that you have an inherent advantage due to your race and cultural upbringing. I can't say I agree with all of it but I fully understand the point when people bring up privilege. It's less what wealth you currently possess, more the means and obstacles required to get there.

This. Your potential or access to resources is not limited by the color of your skin.

 

[gohepcat]

Wait....did you mistakenly link a post from me? There were people on that thread calling refugees garbage.

Holy shit you are! You literally took the side of the guy who was saying it’s the parents fault (which we knew at the time that the parents didn’t know that they were going to be separated from their kids) and called him a “real refugee”.

 

[LegendOfKage]

As usual, he completely misses the point and rambles for ages, never getting to the point.

- Far beyond skin color and gender, there are tons of attributes that a person may or may not have that will contribute to their overall success in life, so why are we focused on just some of them?

- People who support the idea of white privilege don't understand that the logical conclusion of intersectionality is individuality. If you take that all the way to the end, the individual is the ultimate minority.

- No methodology was used in verifying the concept of white privilege.

- White privilege could also be thought of as majority privilege, and would work the same way in any area of the world, regardless of skin color.

- Racism is attributing to the individual the characteristics of the group, as if the group was homogeneous. White privilege is attributing to the individual the characteristics of the group, as if the group was homogeneous.

The points of his argument seemed pretty clear to me. Perhaps you could have discussed them, instead of dismissing everything without making an argument, and just saying he rambled too much. I mean, he certainly does ramble, but I'm pretty sure that's true of everyone in academia. Ever watch Austin Walker give a presentation? I have. He's talented writer (even if I do frequently disagree with him) but wow can he go off on a tangent.

 

[Cato]

Wait....did you mistakenly link a post from me? There were people on that thread calling refugees garbage.

No, not by mistake.
I just thought it very funny. You had a real refugee telling how he and his mother tried to escape, crawling through minefields etc and you just dismissed it outright with a snarky "third world bullshit".

I thought it was funny (and also a bit lacking in empathy).

 

[JordanN]

You do realize that expecting minorities to change their names to a white-sounding one in order to be treated equally is a blatantly obvious example of white privilege?

I wonder which white name would get you a job in Africa or China?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The guy is a pretty obvious troll, it's not like this is the first time someone was banned for being a troll just slightly pretending to be genuine.

Having said that I would like ban reasons on posts but maybe this is an instance of accumulated infractions etc?

Dude seemed pretty genuine to me. He may have been flippant and a bit inflammatory (if you relate with the alt-right, that is), but nothing indicated that he was "trolling." Isn't NewNeoGaf supposed to be all about not silencing people for their opinions?

No, it’s an example of minority disadvantage, but the key point is that a name is a mutable characteristic.

Minority disadvantage... majority advantage.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This is another thing that makes it such a gross double standard, if whites are supposed to feel collectively guilty over historical crimes why are black people not supposed to feel collective guilt over the crimes other blacks commit in the here and now?

Because that would be racist of course, so why is it ok when applied to whites?

What even is this... Are you comparing individual crimes in modern times to the kidnapping and enslaving of millions of people for generations followed by extremely discriminatory policies that worked to keep them down in society for generations even after emancipation?

Even if your bullshit about feeling collective guilt for individual crimes committed today was valid, plenty of whites commit crimes, too.

 

[gohepcat]

No, not by mistake.
I just thought it very funny. You had a real refugee telling how he and his mother tried to escape, crawling through minefields etc and you just dismissed it outright with a snarky "third world bullshit".

I thought it was funny (and also a bit lacking in empathy).

What is a “real refugee“?

And how is it not shitty to say “you don’t really have it tough because I went through this brutal ordeal”? We had parents being tricked into losing their children, and children losing their parents. That should trigger action and empathy in people. Especially by the standards of a civilized country that you’re supposed to be proud of.

It is the lowest bar that you can set for just being a decent human being and you’ve got Papa acting like I’m some hysterical maniac.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I wonder which white name would get you a job in Africa or China?

Which of those countries kidnapped and enslaved millions of white Europeans for generations and historically discriminated against them racially? How do some of you even come up with this shit?

 

[JordanN]

Which of those countries kidnapped and enslaved millions of Europeans for generations and historically discriminated against them racially? How do some of you even come up with this shit?

Only 1% of Americans owned slaves. And Arabs and other Africans enslaved each other but I don't you see bringing up Arab privilege.

Don't try and pin slavery as being the fault of white people, when white countries were actually the first to abolish it.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Only 1% of Americans owned slaves. And Arabs and other Africans enslaved each other but I don't see bringing up their privilege.

Don't try and pin slavery as being the fault of white people, when white countries were actually the first to abolish it.

You didn't have to own slaves to have enormous privilege over black people in America.

You really want to just look at this as some kind of global thing so you don't have to think about the issue, don't you? If white people don't have extreme advantages in every country, then they must not have it any country. Is that the argument you want to make?

 

[JordanN]

You didn't have to own slaves to have enormous privilege over black people in America.

And this is exclusive to America how?

You really want to just look at this as some kind of global thing so you don't have to think about the issue, don't you?

Well yes. Whites didn't invent slavery. There was a slave trade going on in the East but somehow Arabs are not held responsible for some reason, whereas White people fought a war that ended slavery in the West.

If white people don't have extreme advantages in every country, then they must not have it any country. Is that the argument you want to make?

So you think whites have more privileges/rights than a Japanese person in Japan?

And once again, which white name will get white people jobs in Africa or Asia?

 

[MisterFalcon]

Well yes. Whites didn't invent slavery. There was a slave trade going on in the East but somehow Arabs are not held responsible for some reason, whereas White people fought a war that ended slavery in the West.

No slaves were allowed to have families in the Arab world, they worked and then they died, leaving no population of African descent centuries later. Which makes it very much easier to pretend slavery did not exist.

This continues today where women from the Philippines and men from India are brought to work under terrible conditons in the Gulf states but neither are allowed to have families.

 

[JordanN]

No slaves were allowed to have families in the Arab world, they worked and then they died, leaving no population of African descent centuries later. Which makes it very much easier to pretend slavery did not exist.

This continues today where women from the Philippines and men from India are brought to work under terrible conditons in the Gulf states but neither are allowed to have families.

For the record, I'm arguing against slavery and believe America should have left Africa be.

What's funny is if slavery didn't happen, would the attitude towards America be less hated, even though it's possible America would be even more racist (since no slaves would have meant less contact with non-Americans).

 

[BLAUcopter]

What if the dirt poor black farmer is stronger? What if the dirt poor white farmer is really weak? What if the dirt poor black farmer looks much more attractive than the dirt poor white farmer? What if the dirt poor black farmer has more relatives than the dirt poor white farmer? What if the soil where the dirt poor black farmer tries to grow food is better than the soil of the dirt poor white farmer? What if the dirt poor black farmer has better talking skills than the dirt poor white farmer? What if the black farmer is more compassionate than the white farmer? What if the black farmer has more friends than the white farmer?

Is a dirt poor white farmer in Finland more privileged than the dirt poor black farmer in some other country? What if the country and town the white farmer lives in is smaller and poorer than the country and town the black farmer lives in?

Shhhhhh, too much common sense will break the internet.

 

[Dunki]

As usual, he completely misses the point and rambles for ages, never getting to the point.



Ironically, he doesn't realise that he would get very little support if he were not white, middle class and male.

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wrong . He would have never gotten such a huge following if he weren’t villainized. By the left even calling him a Nazi.

Also to generalize people based on their skin color is racist and you should think about arguing with people about white Privilege when they are the ones with the highest suicide rate. And many really struggle to survive. You should make it a class issue not a race one

 

[Deleted member 17706]

And this is exclusive to America how?

Well yes. Whites didn't invent slavery. There was a slave trade going on in the East but somehow Arabs are not held responsible for some reason, whereas White people fought a war that ended slavery in the West.

Why are you talking about who invented slavery? What is going on here...?

So you think whites have more privileges/rights than a Japanese person in Japan?

No, but you can be damn sure a white dude will be better off in Japan than a black dude. If you want to talk about Japanese dude privilege in Japan, why not start up a thread?

And once again, which white name will get white people jobs in Africa or Asia?

I really have no idea what you're hoping to accomplish with this kind of nonsense.

 

[Arkage]

I wonder which white name would get you a job in Africa or China?

You seem to get really hung up on the framing of the words, and it's arguable that "white privilege" is unnecessarily inflammatory compared to phrasing it as "minority disadvantage" as matt404au does. But, I mean, they're literally the same thing as far as it concerns American society. It's not an argument I find all that interesting, as it's more of a sideshow drama.

It's arguable that male privilege is nearly global. White privilege is always contextualized within societies that in particular have a history with black slavery and white colonialism, unless otherwise specified. Trying to say the argument has to be globally valid is strawmanning. The argument for white privilege/black disadvantage is applicable primarily to America, South Africa, and Australia.

Only 1% of Americans owned slaves. And Arabs and other Africans enslaved each other but I don't you see bringing up Arab privilege.

Don't try and pin slavery as being the fault of white people, when white countries were actually the first to abolish it.

I don't mean to be harsh but you really aren't speaking about a topic you know much about despite your strange passion for engaging on it. Your 1% statistics is flat out wrong:

The 1860 census shows that in the states that would soon secede from the Union, an average of more than 32 percent of white families owned slaves. Some states had far more slave owners (46 percent in South Carolina, 49 percent in Mississippi) while some had far less (20 percent in Arkansas).

But as Jamelle Bouie and Rebecca Onion point out in Slate, the percentages don’t fully express the extent to which the antebellum South was a slave society, built on a foundation of slavery. Many of those white families who couldn’t afford slaves aspired to, as a symbol of wealth and prosperity. In addition, the essential ideology of white supremacy that served as a rationale for slavery, made it extremely difficult—and terrifying—for white Southerners to imagine life alongside a black majority population that was not in bondage. In this way, many non-slave-owning Confederates went to war to protect not only slavery, but to preserve the foundation of the only way of life they knew.

https://www.history.com/news/5-myths-about-slavery
https://www.politifact.com/punditfa...viral-post-gets-it-wrong-extent-slavery-1860/

Arabs didn't make slavery a "blacks only" thing that America did; they were equal opportunity slavers. Slaving in Africa started with slave raids by Portugal. This also began the introduction of guns, and the only way for warring tribes to defend themselves in battle against other tribes was to purchase firearms, creating an arms race which Europeans and Americans took great advantage of in birthing a slaves-for-weapons marketplace.

White people being "the first" to abolish slavery is no badge of honor when they were the ones most deeply ingrained within the slavery system to begin with, both financially and socially. And it took America a civil war that almost destroyed the country to abolish slavery. Half a country of white people were also the first to die defending the institution of slavery and white supremacy.

If white names get jobs in America, why doesn't it get jobs in Africa or Asia? Why is African or Asian privilege not being more open minded to white names in the hiring process?

You don't know what effects a white name would have for jobs in Africa or Asia. It might be beneficial, it might not, we would need data and studies. The fact remains that this privilege has been proven to exist in America, and is in no small part due to our horrible past of slavery, jim crow, segregation and onwards. As an American first, I'm much more concerned about how my fellow citizens are treated here than how my white racial tribe is treated in other countries. I'd rather focus on getting rid of this clearly unfair and unequal system in America since, hey, it's where I live and I'd like people to get along and be treated as equals.

 

[JordanN]

Why are you talking about who invented slavery? What is going on here...?

You're the one who said only Europeans enslaved Africans. I'm clearly saying that's false.

No

Oh good. You understand at least the fundamental reason white privilege is fake. I removed the rest of your sentence because it's just blaming white people IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY. Think about this for a second.

I really have no idea what you're hoping to accomplish with this kind of nonsense.

If white names get jobs in America, why doesn't it get jobs in Africa or Asia? Why is African or Asian privilege not being more open minded to white names in the hiring process?

 

[JordanN]

It's arguable that male privilege is nearly global. White privilege is always contextualized within societies that in particular have a history with black slavery and white colonialism, unless otherwise specified.

But never in societies where other races practiced the same thing? Again, do people here believe only white people invented slavery? The whole Arab world had a slave trade going on, when are we going to hold them accountable and remove their privileges?

The argument for white privilege/black disadvantage is applicable primarily to America, South Africa, and Australia.

Funny you only mention white and black and not white and Asian. I wonder why?

I don't mean to be harsh but you really aren't speaking about a topic you know much about despite your strange passion for engaging on it. Your 1% statistics is flat out wrong:

Slave owners were never the majority.

In 1860, the total free population of the United States and its territories was 27,489,561. A total of 393,975 people owned 3,953,760 slaves. That's 1.4% of the population that owned slaves, with an average of 10 slaves per owner

https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-people-in-America-owned-slaves-at-the-peak-of-slavery

Arabs didn't make slavery a "blacks only" thing that America did; they were equal opportunity slavers.

Oh nice, now the whites can go to their countries and demand equality!

White people being "the first" to abolish slavery is no badge of honor when they were the ones most deeply ingrained within the slavery system to begin with,

Tell that to the Native Indians who enslaved other tribes and sacrificed them to gods.

Or the West Africa King Ghezo who fought the British for ending slavery.

And it took America a civil war that almost destroyed the country to abolish slavery. Half a country of white people were also the first to die defending the institution of slavery and white supremacy.

You're right. I hate that the Democratic party fought so hard to keep another group in chains and dehumanized Republicans for freeing them.

You don't know what effects a white name would have for jobs in Africa or Asia.

Whites are actively discriminated from the job market in South Africa. Lets fix that by making white names more friendlier in the South African hiring process!

Or what about owning a farm in Zimbabwe? Once again, whites are discriminated there. Zimbabwe needs to check their privilege and make white farmer names more attractive.

 

[Arkage]

But never in societies where other races practiced the same thing? Again, do people here believe only white people invented slavery? The whole Arab world had a slave trade going on, when are we going to hold them accountable and remove their privileges?

Nobody said "white people invented slavery" in this thread the whole time, yet you keep bringing this up as if it's somehow relevant to the conversation. It isn't. You don't have to invent a bad thing to do be doing the bad thing.

Funny you only mention white and black and not white and Asian. I wonder why?

Because nobody claims white privilege exists to any extent in Asia? What is your point? As I said, there is literally no data or studies available for Asian racial dynamics or discrimination, so it's all conjecture.

Slave owners were never the majority.

https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-people-in-America-owned-slaves-at-the-peak-of-slavery

Nobody said "slave owners were the majority of Americans" in this thread the whole time, yet you keep bringing this up as if it's somehow relevant to the conversation. It isn't. I linked you articles with historical professors, and you link me to quora. While your statement is technically true, so is the statement "Genetically you are over 60% banana." Your statement has no value as it doesn't tell you how many families owned slaves. Counting children as a potential slave holder, or counting the Northern population when slavery was illegal in the North, is intentionally misleading when trying to understand how widespread the institution of slavery was in America. Surely you know this, and surely you can do a better job than you are showing in this thread.

You're right. I hate that the Democratic party fought so hard to keep another group in chains and dehumanized Republicans for freeing them.

Or, to put it another way, "I hate that the conservative party fought so hard to keep another group in chains and dehumanized liberals for freeing them."

 

[michaelius]

I guess white privilege sparks a racism debate but to me it's sorta just common sense. What race was here building a framework for their own success while subjugating others? You know why there are so many Chinese food restaurants in the U.S.? Laundry and Food were the only businesses Chinese people were allowed to open everything else got burned down.

And that's on colonial nations meanwhile there are tons of countries in Europe where people are mostly white which never had colonies and never explored Asian or African nations.

I see no reason why I should feel guilty for something my ancestors never did.

 

[JimmyRustler]

The white privilege shit is so annoying it's unbelievable and it brings a tear to my eye that we finally have a forum where people can speak against those claims.

What the fuck does this even accomplish? It seems to me like a concept perceived only to make white people bad. Had a rough childhood, managed to get back on your feet and make something out of yourself? Doesn't count for shit because.... white privilege. Congrats on making the person feel like shit despite all his/her accomplishments.

Whites get treated worse than they deserve, Minorities get treated better than they deserve. Does that really make anyone happy?

No wonder everyone's so fucking miserable all the time.

 

[Papa]

What is a “real refugee“?

And how is it not shitty to say “you don’t really have it tough because I went through this brutal ordeal”? We had parents being tricked into losing their children, and children losing their parents. That should trigger action and empathy in people. Especially by the standards of a civilized country that you’re supposed to be proud of.

It is the lowest bar that you can set for just being a decent human being and you’ve got Papa acting like I’m some hysterical maniac.

Because group-level historical injustices against blacks are being used to justify group-level discrimination against whites in the present, thereby marginalising individual-level injustices against whites such as what happened to Chairman Tickles .

 

[mantidor]

Words are words. The community that coined and popularized the term "privilege" probably thought it would get their point across quickly, or be able to quickly summarize the problem. That might've been an error, since when you call someone privileged it tends to immediately put them on the defensive.

In reality, of course, the issue of systemic disadvantage needs essays and books to be understood fully, so you can't expect any word or phrase to capture its essence.

You'll notice any marketing term, like pro-choice, pro-life, War on Drugs, War on Terror, is largely terrible at describing the underlying stance or event.

That is quite the understatement.

And honestly it seems very obvious it came from a place of anger, which is unsurprising but ultimately counterproductive. I get minorities being angered at a racist or in general discriminatory system, but to blame people individually, which lets be honest is the majority of the use of the term "white privilege", will do absolutely nothing to change it. The only instance privilege acknowledgement has any value whatsoever is when it comes from self realization, and even then every individual has their own life, whatever privileges they had can be outweighed but severe disadvantages. You don't know them, you can't tell them how good their life has been or not, which is literally the only message behind saying something like "check your privilege".

And that is really the issue, applying ideas that are about the whole of society , general statistics and general numbers to individuals. Again, you have no idea about that persons life, and should not judge their privileges/disadvantages "ratio" just by judging their skin color and/or appearance. This should not be at odds with acknowledging societies at large in pretty much all the world have severe inequalities, and in the case of you in the US, deep racial inequality and divide.

 

[Papa]

Dude seemed pretty genuine to me. He may have been flippant and a bit inflammatory (if you relate with the alt-right, that is), but nothing indicated that he was "trolling." Isn't NewNeoGaf supposed to be all about not silencing people for their opinions?



Minority disadvantage... majority advantage.

Two sides of the same coin. If you have been following the thread (and understood the arguments), you would understand why one side of the coin is productive and the other is not.