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[COCKLES]

They should lose the speakers (or just stick in a generic one-speaker mono) and just rely on headphones to lower the profile of the thing.

 

[R0nn]

I own a DS too, just so we're clear on that. I really only require better screens and a sleeker design, hopefully one that matches the Revolution at least in color scheme. I guess I'm easy.

According to Wikipedia the NES displayed NTSC games in 256x224, while the resolution for one DS screen is 256 × 192. So that's a loss of 32 vertical pixels. Maybe not a huge issue, but it's something that has to be considered. I don't know if Nintendo will want to increase the resolution as that then creates two standards for the system, especially with 13 million+ of the old style in the hands of consumers already.

Ok, then we're clear on the resolutions. Anyway, as I said: future games could simply offer two resolution modes or something like that. They could automatically switch between the two depending on what system you're playing them on. Maybe I make this sound much easier to realise than it actually is, but I'm just putting the idea out there.

Lots of people mention 802.11g.
But noboy mentioned WPA (as opposed to WEP only)

YES! That's a good one!

They should lose the speakers (or just stick in a generic one-speaker mono) and just rely on headphones to lower the profile of the thing.

Some games actually utilize virtual surround which seems to require both speakers.

 

[MrSardonic]

Insider: "My secret source has revealed some interesting news"

 

[E-phonk]

As far as graphics are concerned, the only thing that could improve a new DS with BC is anti aliasing. 3D games would benefit hugely from a standard AA filter if this would be possible, and it wouldn't have any backlash against the old DS.

Not that it will ever happen...

 

[marvelharvey]

The WiFi connection info is stored on the DS, and not on the individual game carts. When I popped Animal Crossing into my DS for the first time, it automatically loaded up and used the WiFi settings I had in place from Mario Kart DS. I was rather surprised, as I kept hearing people say that the DS didn't save settings... but it does.


Do we know that? I thought it was just for easily setting up a friend's DS to use your connection, but when I attempted to use it to do just that for my little brother's DS, I got the warning message that it would delete the profile on my DS in the process. If the function is for easily configuring other DS units, that wouldn't make any sense. As the DS stores WiFi data in its internal memory, I'm quite willing to believe that that function is meant for transferring your WiFi profile permanently to a new DS, allowing you to change hardware. Has anyone tried that -- sending a WiFi profile from one DS to another, then popping their WiFi game into the new DS and taking it online? If you can do that and retain your friend list, then it's rather obvious Nintendo thought ahead.

Bit late to answer your question (it's 2 pages back). Anyway, I checked my Wifi Fi DS manual (for the first time) and this is what it says for 'Transfer Nintendo WFC Configuration':

This option allows you to transfer your system information to another DS. This will permanatly delete it from your current DS. This option is useful if you want to use your wireless connection settings and friends roster on another DS system.

So, I'm guessing that it also transfers your own friend code too, meaning that you will be able to play online again as if nothing had happened. GREAT!

 

[Wollan]

I have a feeling the DS SP(or whatever) is going to share design style with the Revolution.

*sold*

 

[Ford Prefect]

Finally, a reason to look forward to MLK Day!

 

[Pedigree Chum]

wi-fi Tetris already sold me on DS. I did own a DS at one point but I absolutely detested the form factor for the system, so I'm hoping a redesign does happen.

 

[CajoleJuice]

Finally, a reason to look forward to MLK Day!

What about the day off from class?

 

[junkwaffle]

If they are really committed to making the DS smaller and sleeker, I think they could lose the GBA slot, while keeping it BC. Although some of the ideas being tossed around sound good, I agree with those that think it'll just be made smaller and more attractive (and possibly easier on the hands). Anyway, using either the actual DS slot, or making a much thinner slot where the GBA port current occupies, they could create an adapter that allows play of GBA games, which then plugs into one of those slots. It would be offered as a standard pack-in with the redesigned DS, or have a line without the adapter for those who don't care to play GBA games on the DS. Smaller, thinner DS, BC, problem solved.

Think GBA Action Replay. This is something like what I mean:

 

[DDayton]

You know, I find it hard to believe that the GBA slot takes up nearly as much room as so many of you seem to assume.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

You know, I find it hard to believe that the GBA slot takes up nearly as much room as so many of you seem to assume.

I don't get how people have forgotten how slim the GBASP was...DS is chunky, but NOT because of the GBA port.

 

[jarrod]

You know, I find it hard to believe that the GBA slot takes up nearly as much room as so many of you seem to assume.

The GBC Z80 chip didn't take up much space either, but that was cut from both DS and Micro. I think a more network focused DS (online Picto-Chat, WiFi "Virtual Handheld" GB family downloads, limited net surfing/email//IM) with 512MB Flash would be a suitable replacement for GBA backward compatibility. It's inevitable I think that the GBA slot is going to be cut sooner or later, it's just the way Nintendo works.

 

[DrEvil]

The GBC Z80 chip didn't take up much space either, but that was cut from both DS and Micro. I think a more network focused DS (online Picto-Chat, WiFi "Virtual Handheld" GB family downloads, limited net surfing/email//IM) with 512MB Flash would be a suitable replacement for GBA backward compatibility. It's inevitable I think that the GBA slot is going to be cut sooner or later, it's just the way Nintendo works.

Can't be though, not when they've released 'option paks' and rumble paks for games on the system.

 

[radioheadrule83]

You know, I find it hard to believe that the GBA slot takes up nearly as much room as so many of you seem to assume.

Yuji Naka stated in the Feb 2005 issue of Nintendo magazine UK that he thought the GBA slot increased the size of the DS too much. He said he wouldn't have minded if Nintendo had ommitted the functionality.

Its mainly down to the cartridge bay. Think of how flush the back of the system could be with the back of the screen tech if that wasn't there. Or better yet if you've got a GB Micro, consider how much of its size is because of that cart-bay.

GBA compatability was vital in the early system because there was no guaruntee it would take off. I don't think its necessary in a new design.

 

[Gio_CoD]

I think everybody knows the redesign is coming, it's just that some of us doubt it'll be announced in January. I'll still be the first in line to get one though.

 

[DECK'ARD]

A redesign and New Mario Bros. would probably tip me over the edge into finally getting one.

 

[jarrod]

Can't be though, not when they've released 'option paks' and rumble paks for games on the system.

They'll go the way of eReader Cards and the GBA Link Cable. Nintendo drops add-on support all the time.

 

[cvxfreak]

The GBC Z80 chip didn't take up much space either, but that was cut from both DS and Micro. I think a more network focused DS (online Picto-Chat, WiFi "Virtual Handheld" GB family downloads, limited net surfing/email//IM) with 512MB Flash would be a suitable replacement for GBA backward compatibility. It's inevitable I think that the GBA slot is going to be cut sooner or later, it's just the way Nintendo works.

That would screw way too many Pokemon players. They'd still sell well but it would absolutely suck for those people who want to send their old Pokemon over.

 

[jarrod]

That would screw way too many Pokemon players. They'd still sell well but it would absolutely suck for those people who want to send their old Pokemon over.

Well, they could still keep the old DS model going a la SP/micro.

 

[cvxfreak]

Well, they could still keep the old DS model going a la SP/micro.

They could, but the difference between SP/micro and, I'm going to just assume here, the DS and DS+, is that the SP/micro aim to have functional differences and aim for completely different audiences. Here we have rumors that stock is low in Japan with the purpose of replacing the old DS with this new model - they could keep the old one going, but in the eyes of consumers it'll be very irritating to have to use the "outdated" model for the upcoming biggest DS game.

To drop the GBA port, especially with the ARM7 inside, won't yield any benefit whatsoever, especially with the GBASP/micro doing low numbers in Japan that can be accounted for with DS BC. We also have proof that new gamers are embracing the DS, and having the GBA port there gives the GBA a new audience as well.

That said, a GBA cart-sized memory card that can accept classic portable games via Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection would be appreciated, perhaps using the same cartridge technology as Play-Yan.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Not elegant enough, historically low add-on penetration, misses out on opportunity to resell download GBA soft, likely bulky, etc, etc.

I think it'd be better for Nintendo to come up with a DS design that caters to the same sort of audience that Revolution targets. So similar case design and a similar "Virtual Handheld" functionality. Keeping or dropping the GBA slot doesn't really matter I think, but if it shaves some space/cost, I can definitely see Nintendo doing it.

By just building it into a new model, they miss out on the many millions of people who have an older model DS from ever using such a service. How do you figure it'd be bulky, if you also say that replacing the GBA slot with an equivalent internal device would save space?

I don't see how removing the GBA slot would save much space or cost, especially compared to the loss of some GBA game sales and loss of perceived value by consumers.

They'd still be able to play GBA games on their DS... they'd just need to pay $5 each to download them.

Low prices for older games is one thing, but as long as GBA games are still selling new for $30 or more, that is not happening. Well, maybe for Karnaaj Rally or Namco Museum.

In regard to NES and SNES games: correct me if I'm wrong, but the resolution of the NDS is a bit higher than the NES and SNES iirc. At the least, it's not lower.

Depends on how you look at it. Most NES and SNES games used a resolution of 256x224. DS screens are 256x192, but with two of them there's more screen overall to use.

As far as graphics are concerned, the only thing that could improve a new DS with BC is anti aliasing.

Nitpicky, but this is a term that's been often misunderstood for a good decade (I blame N64), so I'll point it out. I believe you mean texture filtering, which is what makes the textures on an object appear smoother/blurrier. Anti-aliasing is usually meant to mean the smoothing of the edges of the polygons themselves. That would improve DS graphics as well, but to a smaller degree and with a higher processing cost.

 

[bummyhead]

Low prices for older games is one thing, but as long as GBA games are still selling new for $30 or more, that is not happening. Well, maybe for Karnaaj Rally or Namco Museum.

Much of the cost of GBA games is in the actual cost of the cartridge itself, there is very little actual profit margin. Therefore I disagree that $5 GBA game downloads are an unreasonable proposition.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

To drop the GBA port, especially with the ARM7 inside, won't yield any benefit whatsoever, especially with the GBASP/micro doing low numbers in Japan that can be accounted for with DS BC. We also have proof that new gamers are embracing the DS, and having the GBA port there gives the GBA a new audience as well.

Dropping the GBA slot != dropping the ARM7 chip. That means the DS loses some processing power, which would be bad.

I doubt that they're going to drop the slot, it eases consumers into buying a new system when they know they can play the old games on it. They're also probably not going to complicate it by creating some sort of fancy registration/download scheme and pack the system with flash memory. Doing those things might cost more than just leaving the slot in and making the system a little bulkier.

 

[cvxfreak]

Dropping the GBA slot != dropping the ARM7 chip. That means the DS loses some processing power, which would be bad.

Well yeah, I wasn't implying that no GBA slot meant no ARM7. What I meant was that with the ARM7 inside already, the reduced space quite literally would not amount to anything more than the slot itself. It's almost like removing music capabilities from the PSP.

 

[Boards of Canada]

They should lose the speakers (or just stick in a generic one-speaker mono) and just rely on headphones to lower the profile of the thing.

Thank God you're not involved in design decisions.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

Well yeah, I wasn't implying that no GBA slot meant no ARM7. What I meant was that with the ARM7 inside already, the reduced space quite literally would not amount to anything more than the slot itself. It's almost like removing music capabilities from the PSP.

Oh, OK. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

 

[bummyhead]

Thank God you're not involved in design decisions.

I agree with him. the stereo speakers are pointless. the "surround sound" of the ds works better with headphones anyway. If you gonna listen to tinny sound, it might as well be mono and not waste space.

 

[I <3 Katamari]

I agree with him. the stereo speakers are pointless. the "surround sound" of the ds works better with headphones anyway. If you gonna listen to tinny sound, it might as well be mono and not waste space.

The speakers on the DS are awesome. It definitely shouldn't lose that feature.

 

[Boards of Canada]

I agree with him. the stereo speakers are pointless. the "surround sound" of the ds works better with headphones anyway. If you gonna listen to tinny sound, it might as well be mono and not waste space.

The DS speakers are incredible. And you're wrong about the surround sound. It works exceptionally well without headphones. I've only once connected headphones to my DS. But it's pointless. The speakers are quite loud... louder than PSPs for sure. Stereo speakers are staying, sorry. It's very odd that you'd want that feature removed. It makes zero sense.

 

[Rocket Punch]

Yeah give us crappy speakers like PSP! No thanks. The DS sound is awesome.

 

[junkwaffle]

Okay, so lose the stereo speakers, but also get rid of the mic... and WiFi feature. Now, get rid of one of the screens, probably the touch screen. Oh, and lose the DS slot. Winnar!

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Some voice of reason here:
-just 'cos they (might!) announce a redesign in January, doesn't mean it's coming in January
-no major changes will be made other than aesthetic changes...like the GBM, I expect a Revolution-esque appeal in alot smoother/less bulky casing, still clamshell, nothing wacky
-GBA slot is staying...idiots...what good will PokeMon Diamond & Pearl be on NDS without being able to upload your PokeMon from the previous versions...DUH, not to mention other things like the rumble/tilt/play-yan/voip/camera/etc. peripherals that would use the GBA cart slot
-the system won't be stripped down in any way IMO, thus the speakers are staying...one of NDS's more surprizing features won't be compromised for a "better" redesign

 

[Galactic Fork]

This site is interesting, don't know if any of you have been here. It shows a lot of different mock ups.

http://www.4colorrebellion.com/nintendo-ds-mockups/

EDIT: Just thought I'd add, whatever the do, I really hope they add a flap that covers the GBA slot when there are no games!

 

[Lindsay]

I just wanna ask why everyone is assuming the redesign won't suck?

 

[fse]

I like these mockups
http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=30600000000542208zs.jpg
http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsrevnew8ew.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsmockupsmall0nk.jpg

 

[Mac the KNife]

I like these mockups
http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsrevnew8ew.jpg

FTW. That is the new hotness.

 

[Galactic Fork]

This one was one of my favorites, it's one of the mockups before the real DS came out, make the buttons acurate and it'd be great.

http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ndsmockupver10di.jpg

This one would be great if both screens weren't constantly uncovered, though that IS kinda the point of it. Looks really nice. Would be great for Stylus only games.

http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dssleekreal7zk.jpg

 

[shibbs]

They should really go for the sleek Revolution/Apple look.

 

[acidviper]

Someone post an evolution of the DS from crazy concepts --> boxy e3 concept --> curent --> crazy concepts

 

[jarrod]

They could, but the difference between SP/micro and, I'm going to just assume here, the DS and DS+, is that the SP/micro aim to have functional differences and aim for completely different audiences. Here we have rumors that stock is low in Japan with the purpose of replacing the old DS with this new model - they could keep the old one going, but in the eyes of consumers it'll be very irritating to have to use the "outdated" model for the upcoming biggest DS game.

True, but what I'm thinking is essentially a "micro" DS for a different audience. Kids who want to upload Pokemon for their RuSa/FRLG/Emerald carts get the old model DS while image conscious adults opt for the network focused, retro fueled, Revolutionesque new model.

The Japan inventory situation does sort of cast a cloud over my idea though.

To drop the GBA port, especially with the ARM7 inside, won't yield any benefit whatsoever, especially with the GBASP/micro doing low numbers in Japan that can be accounted for with DS BC. We also have proof that new gamers are embracing the DS, and having the GBA port there gives the GBA a new audience as well.

It might help start differentiating the markets though too, it may result in a rise of SP/mirco sales in Japan even.

The benifit might be in pennies and millimeters saved on the new DS, but knowing Nintendo, they'd go for it. Again, see the GBC Z80... adding this chip to DS/micro would've arguably eaten less space/cost than removing the GBA slot from a new DS.

That said, a GBA cart-sized memory card that can accept classic portable games via Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection would be appreciated, perhaps using the same cartridge technology as Play-Yan.

They could do that too, giving old DS owners the option to "upgrade" their units. But the new DS really needs an internal solution I think, an add-on will never manage what Nintendo wants.

By just building it into a new model, they miss out on the many millions of people who have an older model DS from ever using such a service. How do you figure it'd be bulky, if you also say that replacing the GBA slot with an equivalent internal device would save space?

Who said internal flash would eat the same space as a GBA slot? An add-on would certainly be more bulky than removing the GBA cart and having memory internal. They could even do a SD slot for expandable memory, like Revolution, and it'd still be far more elegant and compact than a GBA slot + add-on solution.

An add-on would be a nice option for the 14 million or so current DS owners though. They should probably do both.

I don't see how removing the GBA slot would save much space or cost, especially compared to the loss of some GBA game sales and loss of perceived value by consumers.

Again, look at the GBC Z80. Even pennies and millimeters mean something when you're producing multiple millions of units.

Low prices for older games is one thing, but as long as GBA games are still selling new for $30 or more, that is not happening. Well, maybe for Karnaaj Rally or Namco Museum.

Are you kidding? Would you rather have the pricing/production/distribution model of the record industry over iTunes as well?

 

[DDayton]

...the thing is that I can't see Nintendo slashing out backwards compatibility functionality in the DS when they use the GBA port for DS games and GBA games are still in production. The GBC compatibility wasn't present in the DS, but GBC games were no longer being produced at that point.

 

[I <3 Katamari]

...the thing is that I can't see Nintendo slashing out backwards compatibility functionality in the DS when they use the GBA port for DS games and GBA games are still in production. The GBC compatibility wasn't present in the DS, but GBC games were no longer being produced at that point.

You're right. They won't get rid of the GBA port.

 

[jarrod]

...the thing is that I can't see Nintendo slashing out backwards compatibility functionality in the DS when they use the GBA port for DS games and GBA games are still in production. The GBC compatibility wasn't present in the DS, but GBC games were no longer being produced at that point.

It won't matter if they keep the old model for sale though, it'll just help expand the target audience and differentiate the models. See SP vs. micro.


In a DS redesign, I'd like to see...

-smaller, more compact formfactor
-Revolutionesque casing design, more adult/image minded
-higher quality "saturated SPv2" screens, maybe slightly larger
-512MB internal Flash
-direct interface with Nintendo WFC, online Picto-Chat, sponsored website surfing
-SD card slot replacing GBA slot
-Virtual Handheld download service, GB/GBC/GBA libraries


...call it the iDS or something, push it towards the adult market with it's nostalgic downloads, image conscious/sleek design and online network focus. It could command a "premium" price too ($149.99). Then reposition the old model DS as the "kids model" and drop to $99.99, maybe offering similar functionality through a $39.99 GBA slot add-on. It'd work perfect!

 

[bummyhead]

The speakers on the DS are awesome. It definitely shouldn't lose that feature.

The DS speakers are incredible. And you're wrong about the surround sound. It works exceptionally well without headphones. I've only once connected headphones to my DS. But it's pointless. The speakers are quite loud... louder than PSPs for sure. Stereo speakers are staying, sorry. It's very odd that you'd want that feature removed. It makes zero sense.

I don't know what you guys are comparing to, but the DS speakers are something short of "awesome", my god, you are very easily pleased. Stupid iPod generation, no sense of good sound at all. They may be step up from the GBA, but they are still tinny little peizo speakers and certainly can't compare to a good set of headphones, or even a crappy boombox for that matter. And don't even get me started on real home stereo speakers (and I don't mean Home theater in a box crap).

It is not at all odd that I would want that featurew removed. Losing the extra bulk is well worth losing the stereo speakers.

BTW, I didn't say that the surround effect didnt work with the built in speakers, only that it worked better and sounded better with headphones. so may as well lose the speakers.

just 'cos they (might!) announce a redesign in January, doesn't mean it's coming in January

well it would be awfully foolish to anounce a new design, thereby slowing or stalling sales of the current one, if they didn't plan to release it realtivly soon....

 

[bummyhead]

Would you rather have the pricing/production/distribution model of the record industry over iTunes as well?

Totally unrelated. Distributing old game no longer available at retail electornically is totally different from iTunes, which is an alternative to buying NEW albums.

That said, yes, I have no use for itunes, because I like to have hard copies of the entire album, with the album art, etc, to collect and keep forever. low quality compressed digital files on a hard drive just dont do it for me.

 

[soundwave05]

The problem though is I don't think Nintendo will include 512MB flash memory in the DS just to make up for lack of a GBA slot. They're pretty rigid about their profit margins for handhelds.

Perhaps they may offer a solution like having a SD Card slot next to the DS card slot and then the consumer can just go out and buy their own SD Card if they want backwards compatibility.

An SD Card slot takes up a helluva lot less space than a GBA cartridge slot ... plus you could give the DS MP3/MP4 video playback functionality at the same time, so it kinda kills two birds with one stone.

 

[bummyhead]

Perhaps they may offer a solution like having a SD Card slot next to the DS card slot and then the consumer can just go out and buy their own SD Card if they want backwards compatibility.

A more likely possibility would be a GBA cartidge SD card reader.... As I don't see nintendo ADDING any ports to the re-design...

Truthfully I doubt either will happen.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I just wanna ask why everyone is assuming the redesign won't suck?

Because it can't possibly be worse than the 2 designs they've already come up with!

 

[soundwave05]

A more likely possibility would be a GBA cartidge SD card reader.... As I don't see nintendo ADDING any ports to the re-design...

Truthfully I doubt either will happen.

Well you'd lose the GBA slot and replace it with a much smaller SD Card slot. You could then use the space the GBA slot occupies to move the battery or chipset into that area and possibly allowing for a much more compact overall design.

The various Game Boy iterations have added/removed features -- IIRC Game Boy Color had an RF infared port added didn't it?