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[Salazar]

Wait. Shit gets real in kpop gaf?

Nope. Just frosty.

 

[milkham]

"A hug vs a kick in the nuts? You think hugs are better? Yeah, well... that's just, like... your opinion, man...."

you know some people pay women to kick them in the nuts right?

 

[Chuckie]

you know some people pay women to kick them in the nuts right?

Some women pay men to kick them in the nuts!

At least according to some story I read about some Japanese dude who let people beat him up on the street for money. Might be Urban Legend though

 

[Dice]

you know some people pay women to kick them in the nuts right?

I fail to see how fetishes, the most literal and potent manifestation of irrational personal bias, have any relevance to the discussion of making fair evaluations of general quality. Flat contradiction of an example ≠ refutation of argument.

 

[Salazar]

Dice, when I crawl over the finishing line with my thesis, I'm going to send it to you.

It agrees with you, largely.

 

[RubyFaith]

Nope. Just frosty.

Is that better or worse?

 

[milkham]

I fail to see how fetishes, the most literal and potent manifestation of irrational personal bias, have any relevance to the discussion of making fair evaluations of general quality. Flat contradiction of an example ≠ refutation of argument.

I'm not arguing with you dice, you don't have to justify your kara fetish to me.

 

[Salazar]

 

[Dice]

Raina has sexy legs.

Did someone post this?

Spoiler

Only gave Raina cute hair to make things more fair.

I'm not arguing with you dice, you don't have to justify your kara fetish to me.

 

[Salazar]

Raina has sexy legs.

 

[Tenck]

So far you've been delivering in the gif department Salazar.

 

[Dice]

 

[JustinBB7]

Anybody got that TVXQ gif of changmin (I think?) drinking from a milkshake. Fits pretty well right now.

 

[luso]

Nope, I'm already doing it. I have written down opinions on each member and all the songs/concepts from the first album. Moving on to second album now.

Thread is getting boring. Please don't contribute with more boredom.

 

[Ashhong]

Wait. Shit gets real in kpop gaf?

It's mostly just Dice and his occasional rants

 

[Tenck]

Thread is getting boring. Please don't contribute with more boredom.

?

Thread got exciting. K Pop opinions and Orange Caramel's album?

 

[giri]

Meh, i'm having a convo with dice that is easier carried out in this format, as this is where it started. Sorry if this bores people, but here's a massive post.

Did I say there has to be only one way, or that there is an ultimate, objectively best way? No, I said that things can be evaluated by greater measures of understanding. That is why I pointed out that I respect Peru's tastes which are often different from mine. I think if your subjective evaluation takes more into account and is more fair and clear about the whats and the whys of putting one over the other, then that subjective evaluation is objectively better than one which does not. That's how it is with everything in the entire world. Otherwise, there would be no such thing as value. And with that said...

I disagree. There is a lot of taste involved, but as I said, subjectivity is limited by perspective. I think many people would notice their tastes changing if their perspective were expanded by listening to more types of music, studying the nature of music, trying it out themselves, etc. Then that change which happens in their tastes can easily be called development.

Frst thing, to claim that you can be more objective on a subjective and personal opinion is largely false where there’s no other bias coming into play. You can on the technical aspects, but not the subjective.

Secondly, that’s exactly what you did claim in the second part of your paragraph.

What you’re inferring is that just because people don’t know better, they think Soshi are great. It’s a fallacy. Firstly, no opinion on an entirely subjective (and music that you like to listen to is, entirely, subjective) is wrong. They can be wrong about the technical merits, but not the subjective.

Subjectivity towards a group also doesn't have to change just because your perspective has been broadened.

Yes, people’s tastes do change. That’s not being contested.
Yes, who you are as a person this second is limited by your life experiences (perspective).

But the studying of music doesn't necessarily increase any one person’s enjoyment of music. You can increase your knowledge on the topic of music immensely, but still be drawn into the most inane pop songs purely because they're catchy.

I've spent many years learning piano both practical and theory, do i enjoy the music I hear more than the next person? No. Not in anyway. Do i plan on breaking these songs down? No. I personally find making an in depth study of things like this, destroys my enjoyment of them. It means i start worrying about the tiniest flaws and technical quibbles, where I could just simply listen to the music and enjoy it for what it is. If i don't like how it sounds? Move on to something i do enjoy.

You also infer that just because people don't want to write a dictation on the music they listen to, that they don't have the same or larger body of knowledge or are enjoying it as much. I generally don't really care to break down most music in the slightest. Years of theory have left me devoid of interest in doing so. I still know what i like and what i don't. And it doesn’t make yours or my opinion on the music any more or less valid on whether we prefer one group over another.
Yes, you’d be right if you were talking purely about the technical aspects of music. But pop music in particular is not all about the technical aspects.

"A hug vs a kick in the nuts? You think hugs are better? Yeah, well... that's just, like... your opinion, man...."

Seriously?

Claiming that subjectivity puts everything on the same level with nothing but purely arbitrary preference separating them is that stupid to me. Nobody has made any sort of case to argue how it could be otherwise, they are just asserting that with pop groups that is the case. I can only assume that this is because they don't care enough to actually substantiate their claims, even though they often want to pass judgement on me according to those claims. If I ever seem a bit too strongly indignant because of this, I think you should be able to guess why. Beyond the annoyance to me, they contradict such a mindset every day by presenting their stances on anything in life.

There’s 3 parts to this paragraph.
1, Yes, on an entirely subjective topic on preference of music, every single opinion holds the same weight on whether they like something or don’t.
2. Most people don’t find that they have to write essays to enjoy their music.
3. The instance where people start declaring things like preference of one, over another, perspective comes into play, when that person hasn’t bothered to listen to enough of the other group. It wouldn’t mean their opinion is wrong for them, but that yours would hold more weight. But if they have, then yes, their opinion holds the same subjective weight, yours does.
Also, if you’re taking peoples digs at you on the internet, about your taste in music personally, you’re doing the internet wrong. I like some utterly terrible music, but the noise it makes, I enjoy. Hell, I like happy hard core when I’m in the right mood. And that’s some of the cheesiest shit around. And have quite rightly been mocked for it.

You see? It's not so hard after all. This is something I could begin to respect. If people were open about admiration for these sorts of things bleeding over to create unfair favoritism when it comes to their musical endeavors, I'd gladly accept that. That's like the sort of things I say when it comes to Kara.

You say this like me, and others, haven't said this 100 times before. In multiples of ways. Soshi aren’t just a music act.

But you’re leaving out a part of this whole conversation that Subjectivity isn’t just based on one thing, on one aspect. Subjectivity is made up of your perspective, feelings, beliefs, and desires. Soshi do a great job at creating a group that people identify with both in their music, and really well outside of it. But it’s the same for just about all pop groups. You don’t see any 200kg girls running around in any of these groups do you?

It’s probably heightened more in kpop where these groups do tons of variety shows. And get slammed for the oddest trivial slights But the subjectivity of one opinion of a musical group isn’t just necessarily limited to your perspective/feelings/beliefs/desires of that group as a musical group. Yes, similar to your Kara stanning.

Perspective plays a role when you want to make declaratives or comparisons. But there’s also comes a point where increasing your perspective isn’t going to matter as much. I’ve listened to enough f(x) , maybe 80% of their work, [not all of their stuff, lord help me] to know, I’ll enjoy soshi’s music more.

 

[Salazar]

Sorry if this bores people,

Brah I know you live in Queensland. Our state is being economically and socially dismantled. All distractions are good.

 

[giri]

Nope. Just frosty.

People always mistake this.

It's just a discussion between people with different POV's.

I aint mad at all :\

Brah I know you live in Queensland. Our state is being economically and socially dismantled. All distractions are good.

I disagree with that too

I agree with the cuts, if as they said we are borrowing money to pay salaries. Cause thats just stupid. But they have been handled poorly.

My apologies if you know someone who lost their job. Several of my friends did too, as i said, handled poorly.

 

[broadwayrock]

Its amazing the difference in quality between Orange Caramel's 'My Sweet Devil' and 'Lipstick'. I'm guessing their Japanese company must want Japanese songwriters composing their Japanese songs.

 

[wwlnd]

really feeling the first two tracks of the btob release

 

[Salazar]

I disagree with that too

Cuts to health and community services before raising (unusually low) taxes ? And large-scale sackings predicated on a deliberately alarmist, mendaciously exaggerated, and kindergarten-level understanding of state debt ?

Naw man. The public service needed drawing back, but this is just a conservative ideological fantasy/experiment with a nonsensical economic pretext. The idea that this manner and scale of retraction will recover the state's AAA credit rating -- and even the notion that the AAA rating really matters as a condition or indicator -- is bogus.

Campbell = KKS.

[Most people I know who are involved were either definitely safe or bailed out months back. Still, bad times for a bunch of people.]

 

[spink]

To tell the truth, I miss Hwayoung. She was finally starting to look good and this new girl doesn't do anything for me. Is she supposed to be the rapper now? meh

It's funny that some people thought she would ruin the group they added her and she did, just not in the way that was expected. KKS is the Korean Shyamalan.


EDIT: To the dude that made the holocaust joke. Do you papi, don't let these haters get you down. Post how you want, hwaiting!!

I disagree. There is a lot of taste involved, but as I said, subjectivity is limited by perspective. I think many people would notice their tastes changing if their perspective were expanded by listening to more types of music, studying the nature of music, trying it out themselves, etc. Then that change which happens in their tastes can easily be called development.

It's interesting, because while Peru is one of the people I seem to most often have disagreements with, I also end up respecting his views more because he does demonstrate well developed reasons for liking and not liking what he does, even though he frequently says people should just enjoy music in simple heart and not overcomplicate the process.

What I don't understand and find it hard to respect is the stanning of SNSD. They have done some good things, and they are rather professional in performing, and I try to account for taste, but the blatant hyperbole surrounding everything they do (with the prevailing attitude that it's simply plain as day that they stand well above all other groups) is often a bit much. So I openly disagree, and then people tell me I'm insane or an irrational antifan who couldn't possibly be thinking clearly. Really? Do you really think SNSD is that good that no one could rationally feel as I do when reading such things?

Can you share any examples? I really don't understand this claim at all. In terms of my opinion of SNSD, I provide clear explanations as to why my dismissal can become quite pointed. In terms of Kara, I do enjoy them very much in a general sense rather than for specific things, but I think I pretty fairly evaluate their strengths and weaknesses when the discussion comes to that.

With the exception of 2ne1 enjoy the music from all of the top 10 girl groups fairly equally. I've listened to a lot more SNSD than the others, but the main reason for that would be that they have a larger discography. and since it is all just manufactured pop of the highest order, the girls in these groups themselves have very little to do with how likeable a song is. that all comes down to the songwriter.
when I say my favourite is Soshi that is not based on their musical talents at all, just their overall level of attractiveness and personality.
I was initially sucked into kpop because I love beautiful asian girls. I loved watching the Soshi and Kara videos and soon enough I started to enjoy the fun poppy music and started to listen to it on my ipod.

I love music and live with my cans on my head. I actively seek out music that is complex, engaging and challenges you to understand and appreciate it. I'm fairly sure most of you would have never heard of most of the bands I listen to and really love. ultimately all kpop is unchallenging, simple and uninspiring music that can be easily digested by the masses. rabid kpop fans just make me laugh

 

[luso]

Cuts to health and community services before raising (unusually low) taxes ? And large-scale sackings predicated on a deliberately alarmist, mendaciously exaggerated, and kindergarten-level understanding of state debt ?

Naw man. The public service needed drawing back, but this is just a conservative ideological fantasy/experiment with a nonsensical economic pretext. The idea that this manner and scale of retraction will recover the state's AAA credit rating -- and even the notion that the AAA rating really matters as a condition or indicator -- is bogus.

Campbell = KKS.

[Most people I know who are involved were either definitely safe or bailed out months back. Still, bad times for a bunch of people.]

You're doing it right. Right now yet another tax raise in Portugal. We're under FMI but I want central state cuts, not more taxes. Now this is getting painful / ridiculous, for me is almost a salary less at the end of a year...

Edit: First listening to OC album, positive so far. Still digging A~ing.

I was initially sucked into kpop because I love beautiful

Spoiler

asian

girls.

 

[Salazar]

You're doing it right.

Nah. Today they sacked half of the salaried rural fire brigade. Before a bushfire season predicted to be one of the worst in a long while. Which is really saying something.

It's abjectly senseless austerity. And the public is being terrified with a figure of (ineptly projected and calculatedly inflated) gross state debt, which makes next to no reputable sense as a metric for economic health. It's propaganda, really, and I get annoyed when a justifiable drawing down of public service is turned into severe round of sackings (including nurses) and cuts to crucial social programs (suicide counselling, sexual health advisories) on the basis of a scare campaign. We've been through about a decade of massive investment and we've suffered some serious natural disasters: of fucking course we're in debt. It's not intrinsically a dangerous or deleterious condition for a state government to be in.

But this is a tangent.

 

[luso]

of fucking course we're in debt. It's not intrinsically a dangerous or deleterious condition for a state government to be in.

But this is a tangent.

If debt is manageable. So better doing some cuts now than bigger ones later. I'm feeling the pain of the previous socialist government as it doubled our external debt in merely 6 years. Current government is doing the dirty job but still lack focus on cutting expenses, and always raising taxes - and our socialist driven Constitution doesn't helps - Public sector cannot be slashed because is unequal/unfair for them, says our Supreme Court. Solution? Cut everyone, that's called fairness.
But enough of this, moving on.

 

[Peru]

 

[Blablurn]

totally digging the new orange caramel album

 

[T.O.P]

I totally missed this (hONG <3)

Shin Dong Yup and Hong Suk Chun chosen as MCs for Korea’s first transgender talk show

http://www.allkpop.com/2012/08/shin...as-mcs-for-koreas-first-transgender-talk-show


groundbreaking shit right there

they already tried with a Coming Out program for gays but i donnow how it ended

 

[Dice]

Alright, fine, fuck it. I'll just stop airing my opinions or listening to those of others because it's 100% personal and means absolutely nothing to address.

For some reason it seems to really bother people when I say SNSD is mediocre, but that's not because they think I'm making a real claim. They apparently know full well that opinions are meaningless statements of vanity. When they bitch at me for being so crazy as to not absolutely adore SNSD over all others, they don't actually think there is anything wrong with my opinion, because it's just a preference and there is no reason to have one preference or the other. It's just a personal happenstance.

In fact, because everyone understands this so well, they are clearly just dicking around because hey, it's the internet, and no words mean anything on the internet. Apparently I've just been out of the loop. This is a place where we speak and act like we believe things and hold disagreements, but in reality we all just like what we do for no reason at all except whatever feeling magically springs up out of nothing while we experience it. We challenge others, but if they actually want to have any sort of rational discourse we'll run back into the relativistic shelters we were busy tearing down just minutes prior.

Yep, because opinions and musical preference just come from nowhere for no reason (definitely having no relation to technical, creative, or expressive qualities) and can in no way be shared or truly understood by others, because they are not us. We don't actually give a shit about the experience of others, because it isn't ours. We just pretend like we do, and mostly when it's about SNSD, and especially when it's someone is saying they don't like them as much as other groups.

RIGHT.

GOT IT.

 

[JustinBB7]

Watching The 3rd Hospital on some livestream because I'm bored (Drama with Sooyoung), I never watch these, let alone without subtitles, but it's pretty hilarious.

 

[oc]

Watch it bro, not just for Raina but for After School as a whole. They are barely in any variety shows as a group as it is and that show is top tier. Made me fall in love with them even more.

I will start watching this today. Thank you.

Chess, have you listened to the song 25 times yet?

 

[spink]

Alright, fine, fuck it. I'll just stop airing my opinions or listening to those of others because it's 100% personal and means absolutely nothing to address.

For some reason it seems to really bother people when I say SNSD is mediocre, but that's not because they think I'm making a real claim. They apparently know full well that opinions are meaningless statements of vanity. When they bitch at me for being so crazy as to not absolutely adore SNSD over all others, they don't actually think there is anything wrong with my opinion, because it's just a preference and there is no reason to have one preference or the other. It's just a personal happenstance.

In fact, because everyone understands this so well, they are clearly just dicking around because hey, it's the internet, and no words mean anything on the internet. Apparently I've just been out of the loop. This is a place where we speak and act like we believe things and hold disagreements, but in reality we all just like what we do for no reason at all except whatever feeling magically springs up out of nothing while we experience it. We challenge others, but if they actually want to have any sort of rational discourse we'll run back into the relativistic shelters we were busy tearing down just minutes prior.

Yep, because opinions and musical preference just come from nowhere for no reason (definitely having no relation to technical, creative, or expressive qualities) and can in no way be shared or truly understood by others, because they are not us. We don't actually give a shit about the experience of others, because it isn't ours. We just pretend like we do, and mostly when it's about SNSD, and especially when it's someone is saying they don't like them as much as other groups.

RIGHT.

GOT IT.

I gave you a legit response

 

[Darkkn]

Yeah, i don't think SNSD is very talented group musically, but i like them as a persons to watch on shows on youtube and they do have reasonable amount of talent and some good songs. It's their personalities and the story of SNSD that resonated with me and i think with others as well, moreso than the actual music.

At this point most of the newer groups seem more talented singing/dancing wise to me and a group like Sistar already has more good songs under their belt than SNSD.

 

[Fafnir]

I guess this sums up the past couple of pages best.

 

[Dice]

I gave you a legit response

I also don't remember you ever taking issue with me thinking they're mediocre, so I don't see how that post was directed to you.

Either way, I do really mean the points held within that post. No matter how often people make the assertions of it being meaningless subjective comparisons, they constantly contradict themselves with the attitudes and arguments they present every day.

However, TBH the tone of rage in the post is probably 95% from this stupid bullshit math textbook that didn't tell me what I needed to know for a series of problems it presented, and actually directed me to do things that made the issue worse, thus wasting 80 minutes of my time on bullshit that I already hate more than anything.

I'm really losing interest in continuing to argue, though. This is a topic that has gone into EXTREME depth in philosophy and ethics discussions, but the people here aren't doing that at all. It's all being kept at surface level assertions with little integrity to the implications of their own actions and charges against others. I bitched about that hypocrisy, so I got all my bitching out.

 

[Peru]

I totally missed this (hONG <3)

Shin Dong Yup and Hong Suk Chun chosen as MCs for Korea&#8217;s first transgender talk show



groundbreaking shit right there

they already tried with a Coming Out program for gays but i donnow how it ended

Yeah it's already had its wild protests and anti-petitions after airing the first episode of course, but it's all good. Really glad a big timer like SDY speaks up. I generally think of the Voice of the Government KBS as the lamest of broadcasters but this is a pretty decent thing to do, I can't say a show like this is frequently seen on mainstream TV in other countries either.

 

[spink]

I agreed with most all of what you said in that post.
anyway, it's probably best for your own sanity to not let discussions about something as soulless as manufactured pop to get to such a level.

 

[Peru]

Dude, the best way to get me and Dice to go on endless rants is calling pop music 'soulless' and 'manufactured'.

 

[spink]

I welcome it, if you actually believe it isn't.

 

[roaSone]

Lipstick is just awesome, these girls know how to do it.

About what's been said before, I'm sorry, I didn't want to create such a fuss. It was just my opinion, I shouldn't have said it out loud, maybe..

 

[(._.)]

;_;

 

[broadwayrock]

More Orange Caramel:

 

[spink]

 

[Ashhong]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma7xdcDbLI1qmymago1_r1_500.gif

Man, Lizzy has never looked flatter.

 

[milkham]

haha i was waiting for a gif of that to show up

 

[Alta1r]

Meh, i'm having a convo with dice that is easier carried out in this format, as this is where it started. Sorry if this bores people, but here's a massive post.






Frst thing, to claim that you can be more objective on a subjective and personal opinion is largely false where there’s no other bias coming into play. You can on the technical aspects, but not the subjective.

Secondly, that’s exactly what you did claim in the second part of your paragraph.

What you’re inferring is that just because people don’t know better, they think Soshi are great. It’s a fallacy. Firstly, no opinion on an entirely subjective (and music that you like to listen to is, entirely, subjective) is wrong. They can be wrong about the technical merits, but not the subjective.

Subjectivity towards a group also doesn't have to change just because your perspective has been broadened.

Yes, people’s tastes do change. That’s not being contested.
Yes, who you are as a person this second is limited by your life experiences (perspective).

But the studying of music doesn't necessarily increase any one person’s enjoyment of music. You can increase your knowledge on the topic of music immensely, but still be drawn into the most inane pop songs purely because they're catchy.

I've spent many years learning piano both practical and theory, do i enjoy the music I hear more than the next person? No. Not in anyway. Do i plan on breaking these songs down? No. I personally find making an in depth study of things like this, destroys my enjoyment of them. It means i start worrying about the tiniest flaws and technical quibbles, where I could just simply listen to the music and enjoy it for what it is. If i don't like how it sounds? Move on to something i do enjoy.

You also infer that just because people don't want to write a dictation on the music they listen to, that they don't have the same or larger body of knowledge or are enjoying it as much. I generally don't really care to break down most music in the slightest. Years of theory have left me devoid of interest in doing so. I still know what i like and what i don't. And it doesn’t make yours or my opinion on the music any more or less valid on whether we prefer one group over another.
Yes, you’d be right if you were talking purely about the technical aspects of music. But pop music in particular is not all about the technical aspects.


Seriously?



There’s 3 parts to this paragraph.
1, Yes, on an entirely subjective topic on preference of music, every single opinion holds the same weight on whether they like something or don’t.
2. Most people don’t find that they have to write essays to enjoy their music.
3. The instance where people start declaring things like preference of one, over another, perspective comes into play, when that person hasn’t bothered to listen to enough of the other group. It wouldn’t mean their opinion is wrong for them, but that yours would hold more weight. But if they have, then yes, their opinion holds the same subjective weight, yours does.
Also, if you’re taking peoples digs at you on the internet, about your taste in music personally, you’re doing the internet wrong. I like some utterly terrible music, but the noise it makes, I enjoy. Hell, I like happy hard core when I’m in the right mood. And that’s some of the cheesiest shit around. And have quite rightly been mocked for it.



You say this like me, and others, haven't said this 100 times before. In multiples of ways. Soshi aren’t just a music act.

But you’re leaving out a part of this whole conversation that Subjectivity isn’t just based on one thing, on one aspect. Subjectivity is made up of your perspective, feelings, beliefs, and desires. Soshi do a great job at creating a group that people identify with both in their music, and really well outside of it. But it’s the same for just about all pop groups. You don’t see any 200kg girls running around in any of these groups do you?

It’s probably heightened more in kpop where these groups do tons of variety shows. And get slammed for the oddest trivial slights But the subjectivity of one opinion of a musical group isn’t just necessarily limited to your perspective/feelings/beliefs/desires of that group as a musical group. Yes, similar to your Kara stanning.

Perspective plays a role when you want to make declaratives or comparisons. But there’s also comes a point where increasing your perspective isn’t going to matter as much. I’ve listened to enough f(x) , maybe 80% of their work, [not all of their stuff, lord help me] to know, I’ll enjoy soshi’s music more.

giri, you are the man!

Alright, fine, fuck it. I'll just stop airing my opinions or listening to those of others because it's 100% personal and means absolutely nothing to address.

For some reason it seems to really bother people when I say SNSD is mediocre, but that's not because they think I'm making a real claim. They apparently know full well that opinions are meaningless statements of vanity. When they bitch at me for being so crazy as to not absolutely adore SNSD over all others, they don't actually think there is anything wrong with my opinion, because it's just a preference and there is no reason to have one preference or the other. It's just a personal happenstance.

In fact, because everyone understands this so well, they are clearly just dicking around because hey, it's the internet, and no words mean anything on the internet. Apparently I've just been out of the loop. This is a place where we speak and act like we believe things and hold disagreements, but in reality we all just like what we do for no reason at all except whatever feeling magically springs up out of nothing while we experience it. We challenge others, but if they actually want to have any sort of rational discourse we'll run back into the relativistic shelters we were busy tearing down just minutes prior.

Yep, because opinions and musical preference just come from nowhere for no reason (definitely having no relation to technical, creative, or expressive qualities) and can in no way be shared or truly understood by others, because they are not us. We don't actually give a shit about the experience of others, because it isn't ours. We just pretend like we do, and mostly when it's about SNSD, and especially when it's someone is saying they don't like them as much as other groups.

RIGHT.

GOT IT.

But seriously, Dice, quit being emo. We don't care that you don't like Soshi. We're not trying to convert you. You got shit this time because you jumped on Ym1r for no reason about something that he wasn't trying to argue in the first place. And then making ridiculous statements such as "liking music isn't subjective." And then insinuating that people who are unwilling or unable to discuss certain aspects of music have a less valid or objectively less valuable opinion about music. Clearly this is going to get you backlash. Quit reacting to people liking Soshi like a bitch and you'll stop being treated like a bitch for it.

If you want to discuss the technical, creative or expressive aspects of music, start a K-pop for Musicians thread. Or discuss it here and accept the fact that most people here are not going to engage you in such a discussion because most people here don't care about or care to articulate those things. Shit, I can listen to Roly Poly all day errday and I couldn't tell you the first technical, creative or expressive reason for why I like it. All I know is, it sounds good. And no amount of tenchnical, creative or expressive reasons will make Hoot sound bad in my ears or Step sound good.

 

[Peru]

Perfume visits the Japan Rock Fest and wild insanity ensues http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvgh7jn1Atw

 

[Biscuits]

Haha, this gave me a chuckle http://www.allkpop.com/2012/09/kang-ho-dongs-predictions-about-psy-come-true

 

[wwlnd]

video of gwangsoo holding up a newspaper and giving a thumbs up from todays innocent man episode. nice gif opportunity to photoshop something on the newspaper... lot of work though.