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[nynt9]

I mean, people can just not use his mod if they're upset with this. Seems pretty clear cut.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

It's a third party mod, they won't do anything different any more than they would against denuvo cracks.

You don't think they'll care that he's using their forums to distribute a "fix" that specifically targets users he got in arguments with on the forums and intentionally crashes their game? He also has a history of allegedly deleting save data with his Tales of Berseria fix.

I made a thread about it.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/524220/discussions/0/1327844097131584424/

I've been in touch with the moderator that locked the thread and he's forwarding the concerns straight to Valve. Even if you disagree with "blacklisting" users, if this weren't open source, those users wouldn't even know they're being targeted. This is a dangerous precedent.

 

[Aselith]

Fair play, he can do what he wants with his own mod. He probably wants to support Square in bringing more games like NIER to the PC. Somebody will likely develop a way to circumvent the checks anyway (I mean they did crack denuvo lol)

Mostly...but if hes sending information to a server without telling anyone, that's actually a big security concern. People do need to figure out what he's sending in total.

 

[nynt9]

You don't think they'll care that he's using their forums to distribute a "fix" that specifically targets users he got in arguments with on the forums and intentionally crashes their game? He also has a history of allegedly deleting save data with his Tales of Berseria fix.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/524220/discussions/0/1327844097131584424/

I've been in touch with the moderator that locked the thread and he's forwarding the concerns straight to Valve. Even if you disagree with "blacklisting" users, if this weren't open source, those users wouldn't even know they're being targeted. This is a dangerous precedent.

A precedent that can very easily be sidestepped by just... not using the mod?

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Piracy is prohibited.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

Piracy is prohibited.

When Denuvo becomes an issue, paying customers are going to be affected by this when they are even they are resorting to the Denuvo bypasses (legal to circumvent DRM in the event of a shutdown thanks to the EFF). He even said he'd refuse to remove them because if the published wouldn't bother removing the DRM, why should he?


https://www.eff.org/issues/video-games
Http://whyisdenuvobad.github.io

 

[tuxfool]

You don't think they'll care that he's using their forums to distribute a "fix" that specifically targets users he got in arguments with on the forums and intentionally crashes their game? He also has a history of allegedly deleting save data with his Tales of Berseria fix.

I made a thread about it.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/524220/discussions/0/1327844097131584424/

I've been in touch with the moderator that locked the thread and he's forwarding the concerns straight to Valve. Even if you disagree with "blacklisting" users, if this weren't open source, those users wouldn't even know they're being targeted. This is a dangerous precedent.

I personally don't really care. The mod is open source so if he wants to make "easy mode" harder for a subset of users to use, that is within his right. Steam can also kick him off the forums, that is within their rights. He is making a statement with his software, but ultimately that is all it is, he should be allowed to do it. None of this matters one way or another.

In the future people can once again decide whether they want to use the benefits he provides and weigh them against his conditions.

 

[HKA6A7]

Erm...
Isn't FAR available on Git? If that's the case, What's the point of that measure? Anyone who knows programming could edit that one out.

 

[Blam]

You don't think they'll care that he's using their forums to distribute a "fix" that specifically targets users he got in arguments with on the forums and intentionally crashes their game? He also has a history of allegedly deleting save data with his Tales of Berseria fix.

I made a thread about it.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/524220/discussions/0/1327844097131584424/

I've been in touch with the moderator that locked the thread and he's forwarding the concerns straight to Valve. Even if you disagree with "blacklisting" users, if this weren't open source, those users wouldn't even know they're being targeted. This is a dangerous precedent.

Yes because if it wasn't open source who says what he could have done. He could have targeted specific users and then RAT'd or even stolen their accounts through his .dll.

This is not something to brush off as a simple "fighting the pirates". He's abusing his position for personal usage. Frankly I think he should be VAC Banned because as it stands he is distributing a virus in my books.

A precedent that can very easily be sidestepped by just... not using the mod?

Yes but that's not the point here he's gone ahead and done something like this which is the problem, and has intentionally sabotaged a few of the members from the steam forums which had bought the game just because they got into an argument with him.

Erm...
Isn't FAR available on Git? If that's the case, What's the point of that measure? Any one who knows programming could edit that one out.

The vast majority of people are there to play the game and modify it. The majority won't take the time to do something like this.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

I mean, people can just not use his mod if they're upset with this. Seems pretty clear cut.

Would you take the same stance if a commercial game used Steamworks to target specific users the studio took issue with ? They could just not buy the game.

 

[nynt9]

Yes but that's not the point here he's gone ahead and done something like this which is the problem, and has intentionally sabotaged a few of the members from the steam forums which had bought the game just because they got into an argument with him.

But... he's not preventing people who bought the game from playing it? It's his mod and thus his prerogative to do whatever with it - and people's prerogative to not use it. It doesn't affect legitimate purchasers of the game in any way. They can still use the product they purchased as-is.

Would you take the same stance if a commercial game used the API to target specific users the studio took issue with? They could just not buy the game.

No, but this isn't a commercial game.

 

[Ascheroth]

Mostly...but if hes sending information to a server without telling anyone, that's actually a big security concern. People do need to figure out what he's sending in total.

See:

Not related to FAR, those 2 people have been banned from all of his mods for quite a long time.


There's no online authentication for the mod, it only verifies if the steam_api.dll file is legitimate.
Well, it does communicate with a server, to verify if there's updates for the mod.

When Denuvo becomes an issue, paying customers are going to be affected by this when they are even they are resorting to the Denuvo bypasses (legal to circumvent DRM in the event of a shutdown thanks to the EFF). He even said he'd refuse to remove them because if the published wouldn't bother removing the DRM, why should he?

Http://whyisdenuvobad.github.io

His mod is open source... you could even fork it and remove this yourself if you really cared.
Or just play without using his mod.

 

[Carlius]

good. nier obviosuly has some legs, look at the pc sales, over 300k at full price.
i read on dso there was a way to go around this, which was to use a previous version of the mod.

 

[Rudimental]

So Kaldaiens FAR (Fix Automatas Resolution) Mod addd an anti-piracy check by checking whether the steam_api.dll file is legitimate.

So some people got mad and two people spammed his feedback thread and Kaldaien also banned them somehow from using the mod.

The blacklisting is a very old thing. Hell, one person was blacklisted from FAR for giving Kaldaien shit about something completely different.

Ah, yeah. lol. I remember now, you were a complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in one of the guides for one of my projects. That got you onto the list of people who cannot use my software -- or at least not the Steam-related parts.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/524220/discussions/0/135512104777399045/?ctp=30#c135512133547249140

edit: whoops I see this was already said, too slow to go find the post.

 

[tuxfool]

Would you take the same stance if a commercial game used the API to target specific users the studio took issue with? They could just not buy the game.

Yes, provided they could get their money back. Here it makes even less sense, this is free software.

In fact that is what user violation bans are. The company takes issue with the conduct of certain users and bans them from their service.

 

[ezodagrom]

You don't think they'll care that he's using their forums to distribute a "fix" that specifically targets users he got in arguments with on the forums and intentionally crashes their game? He also has a history of allegedly deleting save data with his Tales of Berseria fix.

I made a thread about it.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/524220/discussions/0/1327844097131584424/

I've been in touch with the moderator that locked the thread and he's forwarding the concerns straight to Valve. Even if you disagree with "blacklisting" users, if this weren't open source, those users wouldn't even know they're being targeted. This is a dangerous precedent.

How about you stop spreading BS already?

Berseria's fix, the only file that is deleted is a file that is part of the crack, nothing from the game itself is deleted. And this only happens if the person trying to use the mod in a pirated copy presses a very specific button, it's not something automatic.

Only 2 people have been targetted in the past when it comes to the blacklist, and it took an extreme amount of trolling for it to reach the point where Kaldaien had to blacklist them.

the blacklist in Special K's codebase exists for two extremely bothersome trolls that I've encountered over the past two years

 

[hydrophilic attack]

When Denuvo becomes an issue, paying customers are going to be affected by this when they are even they are resorting to the Denuvo bypasses (legal to circumvent DRM in the event of a shutdown thanks to the EFF). He even said he'd refuse to remove them because if the published wouldn't bother removing the DRM, why should he?


https://www.eff.org/issues/video-games
Http://whyisdenuvobad.github.io

I was mostly making a joke, referencing a line in the game

 

[Abilidebob]

Would you take the same stance if a commercial game used Steamworks to target specific users the studio took issue with ? They could just not buy the game.

You're right, I didn't knew that FAR needed to be bought at 60 dollars and wasn't open source.

 

[Gbraga]

There's no online authentication for the mod, it only verifies if the steam_api.dll file is legitimate.
Well, it does communicate with a server, to verify if there's updates for the mod.

Oh, ok, that's much better. Thanks for the info.

 

[Copper]

I'm friends with him on steam but it looks like his profile is on private. Sad that it had to come to this. I really enjoyed his fixes for games.

People do realize denuvo usually gets removed after a while anyways right? It's mostly there to protect the first few months sales which are usually the highest.

 

[Hexa]

The mod is open source. People know exactly what they're getting, so complaints about viruses or whatever are nonsense. Furthermore, he has no responsibility to make a mod for everyone. I applaud him for trying to fight piracy.

 

[Blam]

But... he's not preventing people who bought the game from playing it? It's his mod and thus his prerogative to do whatever with it - and people's prerogative to not use it. It doesn't affect legitimate purchasers of the game in any way. They can still use the product they purchased as-is.



No, but this isn't a commercial game.

Actually for the less tech savvy who use this mod, if they install it then for whatever reason the steam_api.dll get's updated then they won't be able to play the game. Sure they will need to download another one, but still that shouldn't be something that needs to happen in the first place.

The mod is open source. People know exactly what they're getting, so complaints about viruses or whatever are nonsense. Furthermore, he has no responsibility to make a mod for everyone. I applaud him for trying to fight piracy.

The vast majority of people who play Nier are not programmers, so this isn't the case at all. Just because it's open source doesn't mean that everyone can understand it.

 

[tuxfool]

People do realize denuvo usually gets removed after a while anyways right? It's mostly there to protect the first few months sales which are usually the highest.

I'd dispute that slightly and say it gets removed on a voluntary basis. Not everyone does it.

 

[Ardenyal]

When Denuvo becomes an issue, paying customers are going to be affected by this when they are even they are resorting to the Denuvo bypasses (legal to circumvent DRM in the event of a shutdown thanks to the EFF). He even said he'd refuse to remove them because if the published wouldn't bother removing the DRM, why should he?


https://www.eff.org/issues/video-games
Http://whyisdenuvobad.github.io

So don't support Denuvo by buying games that come with it?

 

[Trojita]

I've never heard of Kal's fixes deleting Tales of Berseria saves.

The guy does too much good fixing pc games, which would make me said if he left like he was talking about before Berseria was released.

 

[nynt9]

Anyone who takes issue with his blacklisting - if you just comment out the "if" statement on like 893 on steam_api.cpp on jis SpecialK github and build his mod like that, and the blacklist is gone. I'd do it myself if I could be bothered to install the Steam API and other headers. But there you go. It's pretty simple.

Actually for the less tech savvy who use this mod, if they install it then for whatever reason the steam_api.dll get's updated then they won't be able to play the game. Sure they will need to download another one, but still that shouldn't be something that needs to happen in the first place.

Uh, I can't see how this is true. The mod uses functions from the Steam API to do stuff like fix screenshots and achivements. It doesn't do a checksum on the DLL file. Valve probably won't break basic Steam API functionality like that on an update.

Edit: Actually, he does do a checksum on the DLL file in the code, on like 4404 on steam_api.cpp - yeah, that's annoying.

But again, just don't use the mod if it breaks? It's very common for updates to games to break mods.

 

[ezodagrom]

Erm...
Isn't FAR available on Git? If that's the case, What's the point of that measure? Anyone who knows programming could edit that one out.

You'd be surprised at the amount of people who don't own the games that go into the community hub asking for help because the mods don't work.

But the main reason for the measure seems to be the possibility of copyright problems:

This entire hobby is rife with the problem, and I'm seriously just protecting my time investment. Pirates have no respect for anything, least of which copyrights :-\

Dropping game-specific mods to work on a project that facilitates asset injection into all games... I'd say I have a LOT more to worry about. Same reason crosire disables depth buffer access in multiplayer games in ReShade. When you write a general purpose software package, you have to worry about being blacklisted for one reason or another.

Yes, it's open source. My first-party distribution has measures to safeguard against copyright infringement, but there's nothing stopping someone else from removing those and distributing their own illegal product. I'm not affiliated in any way with that and can continue working happily on my stuff.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

People do realize denuvo usually gets removed after a while anyways right? It's mostly there to protect the first few months sales which are usually the highest.

No. It doesn't. Five games (one of which is VR and two small indies) have removed Denuvo. As with all DRM, sometimes it'll get taken out but there'll be a handful that don't. I hardly see Konami removing it... But I do see them using it as an excuse to sell a "remaster" on a platform that doesn't need them.

Why haven't the rest that have been bypassed removed it? No idea. Denuvo is literally useless once it has been bypassed. It serves no purpose and it only imposes heavy restrictions on legitimate customers (such as being auth-server based and preventing WINE emulation).

 

[Ascheroth]

I've never heard of Kal's fixes deleting Tales of Berseria saves.

The guy does too much good fixing pc games, which would make me said if he left like he was talking about before Berseria was released.

See this:

How about you stop spreading BS already?

Berseria's fix, the only file that is deleted is a file that is part of the crack, nothing from the game itself is deleted. And this only happens if the person trying to use the mod in a pirated copy presses a very specific button, it's not something automatic.

Only 2 people have been targetted in the past when it comes to the blacklist, and it took an extreme amount of trolling for it to reach the point where Kaldaien had to blacklist them.

 

[L.O.R.D]

I've heard something else,he updated his tools to blacklist people who don't like so his tool won't work with them,even if they bought the game.

 

[Cuningas de Häme]

The guy has every right to do whatever he wants with his mod. Pirating assholes can get bend.

Don't pirate games, buy them. It is that easy.


And LOL at people defending pirates in this thread, "but but it is dangerous for the longevity of the game if it can't be pirated or I can't use a mod in my pirated copy"... Seriously guys, just buy the damn game.

 

[Inspectah_Deck]

I tried the crack to compare performance and FAR works normal like before, so I don´t see what this whole thread is about.

 

[nynt9]

I've heard something else,he updated his tools to blacklist people who don't like so his tool won't work with them,even if they bought the game.

It's only two people who have personally harassed him, and buying the game doesn't have anything to do with being able to use the mod, which is an independent piece of software.

 

[NegativeCero]

I have no issue with him doing this. It's his work and he can do whatever he wants, just as whoever decides to pirate or buy the game can choose to use the mod.

 

[Abilidebob]

The guy has every right to do whatever he wants with his mod. Pirating assholes can get bend.

Don't pirate games, buy them. It is that easy.


And LOL at people defending pirates in this thread, "but but it is dangerous for the longevity of the game if it can't be pirated or I can't use a mod in my pirated copy"... Seriously guys, just buy the damn game.

I mean, I COULD see a little sense in that. IF the mod was a black box. But it's open source. The whole "drama" is coming from dumb, LAZY pirates. I mean, if they can search for a torrent, surely they can find someone else's fork that can work with their pirated copy.

 

[L.O.R.D]

It's only two people who have personally harassed him, and buying the game doesn't have anything to do with being able to use the mod, which is an independent piece of software.

From the other thread (the denuvo thread),you can still use the tool,but the game will perform worse.

So i don't know the full story.

 

[HKA6A7]

You'd be surprised at the amount of people who don't own the games that go into the community hub asking for help because the mods don't work.

But the main reason for the measure seems to be the possibility of copyright problems:

Well, a lot of pirates aren't the sharpest tools in the box.
Still, what he says makes sense, and I can see why he made it. The least you want as a programmer is to have your work blacklisted because of others.

 

[Wonder Peter]

Would you take the same stance if a commercial game used Steamworks to target specific users the studio took issue with ? They could just not buy the game.

Stop comparing a mod that you got from a link outside of Steam to commercially available games on Steam, if devs would be blocking users without any reason Valve would intervene, you didn't get the mod from Steam you got it from another site and its installation is completely free, and optional. This mod will not result in devs blocking their games from certain users as you're implying.

 

[R_thanatos]

I don't see the problem in how he want his own mod to be played.

 

[theultimo]

I haven't had any issues at all and i support his efforts fixing the game where not even the developers can.

I also have no sympathy towards affected people because he is taking a anti-piracy stance. He can do whatever he wants with his code.


I dont understand the reddit witch hunt.

 

[Regiruler]

That's damn good.

 

[razgriz417]

It's his mod that is completely optional, don't see what the issue is. If you have problems with it, whether it's because you pirated the game or get blacklisted because you harass the modder, don't use it or make your own out of his open source code

 

[Deft Beck]

The mod author is free to do what they want with their own content.

Though, this introduces another question -- would S-E go as far as to introduce checks for mods in order to protect the game's assets?

 

[Chairmanchuck]

The mod author is free to do what they want with their own content.

Though, this introduces another question -- would S-E go as far as to introduce checks for mods in order to protect the game's assets?

This wouldnt even be a problem if S-E decides to fix their game....
After around 1 week after Niers PC release they stated they know about a problem and a patch will be coming. Now its May and the resolution bug and some other stuff, that FAR fixed, isnt fixed by S-E.

 

[Wonko_C]

Don't pirate Nier. It's a fucking masterpiece, and well worth your time and money.

Spoiler

good luck getting the final ending without a server connection

Wait what's this about an online connection to

Spoiler

get an ending

!? You mean I can't

Spoiler

get the ending

if I play the game offline on my PS4 either? What if I want to replay the game years down the line after the PS4 servers shut down? Why hasn't there been a tantrum thrown about this?

 

[Angelus Errare]

I've never heard of Kal's fixes deleting Tales of Berseria saves.

The guy does too much good fixing pc games, which would make me said if he left like he was talking about before Berseria was released.

It doesn't. At the end of the day it's just people who pirated the game whining.

 

[Necro900]

So, a modder puts an anti-piracy measure in his mod, and such measure gets obviously circumvented in no time since the mod is open source.

Eh, I don't know.. SEnix does have its own careers website though.

 

[nynt9]

Wait what's this about an online connection to get an ending!? You mean I can't get the ending if I play the game offline on my PS4 either? What if I want to replay the game years down the line after the PS4 servers shut down? Why hasn't there been a tantrum thrown about this?

Why hasn't there been an uproar about blood ghosts in souls games !?!?!?!?

Same reason. The final ending

Spoiler

pulls data from other people

. Like the entire game - again, like the Souls blood ghosts. You see corpses of other players lying around everywhere. It's something you literally can't achieve offline.

 

[CannonFodder52]

Spoiler

Wait what's this about an online connection to get an ending!? You mean I can't get the ending if I play the game offline on my PS4 either? What if I want to replay the game years down the line after the PS4 servers shut down? Why hasn't there been a tantrum thrown about this?

Can you spoiler tag.

Spoiler

That ending was one of more powerful moments I've experienced in a game, I'd rather if others didn't get spoiled on it.

 

[ghostjoke]

Isn't this thing open source? making all of this is pointless posturing and anger.