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[TunaLover]

The current model killed home console, new fresh ideas, quirk concepts that Japan love, almost not exist, even when most of this ideas come from mid-tier developers, they got killed in the high budget process, co-marketing with console makers -moneyhats-. Small/mid developers/publishers don't have a chance.

No surprise it's a handheld centric country now.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Yeah, Japan's support of handhelds has been fantastic. And in Japan, that's where the money is. DS, PSP and DoCoMo.
And really, Mister EA, Korea is the future... the free and crappy with grind and microtransactions MMO future?
*donotwant.gif*
That said, it says a lot that the next Castlevania will come from Spain... not Japan, not Konami.... SPAIN!!!
And Cryengine comes from Germany. The Witcher from Poland.

That's right, Europe is coming and it will rule the console future *evil grin*

At least here sales are still rising

The current model killed home console, new fresh ideas, quirk concepts that Japan love, almost not exist, even when most of this ideas come from mid-tier developers, they got killed in the high budget process, co-marketing with console makers -moneyhats-. Small developers don't have a chance.

No surprice it's a handheld centric country now.

I think it would also help if Japan embraced the 360 more... it simply is the much more simple to work with console. Plus Sony has adopted a somewhat anti 2D stance which is ridiculous *Cave shooters now all on 360, yay*

Nextgen wil hopefully make things a bit easier with better interfacing for programmers *glares at Sony*

 

[Scribble]

Huh, the more you know I guess.

I'm guessing you like Kingdom Hearts. You don't see the ads for MMOs when you're crawling the fan site circuit?

 

[Johann]

So basically 99% of the games will be MMO?

Do not want.

EA has been looking more into alternative revenue stream since the beginning of this generation. You know, Battlefield Heroes, Rock Band song DLC, Facebook Apps etc.

They are more interested in the 'free to play/pay if you want to win' Korean model. The benefits of this is that it has a small barrier to entry and opens up markets that were formally plagued with piracy. I remember reading that Fifa Online made a lot of money for them in China.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

EA has been looking more into alternative revenue stream since the beginning of this generation. You know, Battlefield Heroes, Rock Band song DLC,

Does EA make any money off Rock band DLC?

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Why single out the japanese? this whole gen has been made of shit and fail, both on the pc and console side of things.

I wish i could get into hand-held gaming.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I'm guessing you like Kingdom Hearts. You don't see the ads for MMOs when you're crawling the fan site circuit?

How did you know I like the first KH game but like parodying the "spam the triangle button" mechanics of the second? Are you psychic?

But yeah, fansites are weird, so no.

 

[Scribble]

=P

 

[stuminus3]

This is all happening because the weaboos misunderstood what "one day, the geeks shall inherit the earth" actually meant.

 

[beelzebozo]

This is all happening because the weaboos misunderstood what "one day, the geeks shall inherit the earth" actually meant.

now that you mention it, this runs contrary to my understanding that everything is better in japan.

 

[Azih]

Yurop buys Amerika games, Amerika buys Yurop games. Why no one buy Jpn game?

 

[Turk]

It's a trick.

 

[The Steve]

I like how you can tell which posts are taking up for Japan just by looking at their anime avatars.

 

[jrricky]

Nice to see Ben Judd isn't busy with producing anymore. NEVER FORGET YOU ARE PHOENIX WRIGHT'S VOICE AND YOU WILL NEVER DO ANYTHING MORE WORTHY THAN THAT GREAT MISSION.

Judd is phoenix's voice? :O

 

[RurouniZel]

I like how you can tell which posts are taking up for Japan just by looking at their anime avatars.

I love how you can tell which posts are going to be dumb just by looking at their Junior status.

 

[sasimirobot]

I will be at TGS for the first time in my life tomorrow. 3 hour train ride from the outskirts of Tokyo. In the back of my mind I think I should hold off playing Scribblenauts on the way so I have something to do when I am at TGS (dont want to run down my DS battery).

Plus, I tried to give away a free ticket to the game show and no takers. Can you imagine if E3 cost 12$ and somebody had a free ticket but nobody cared. Sad state of gaming here in Japan...

That said. My DS is the only thing I play these days. There is no HD TV in the Japanese household I live in (a wealthy family btw) and the Wii hasn`t been touched since Shiren 3 because I bought Shiren DS.

I will post pics of me groping a booth girl. have to have something
to post on facebook.

 

[Johann]

Does EA make any money off Rock band DLC?

From what I know, the margins are very thin due to so many different hands in the pot. There are also internal disputes about how royalties should be handled, such as with the Warner Brothers fiasco with the post-release DLC a while ago.

Licensing is also full of legal headaches. EA/MTV Games admitted that they were 'overwhelmed' with this part of their DLC plan with Rock Band since everybody they deal with wants as much money and control as possible. Rock Band: The Beatles's DLC needed Sony-ATV Music, Apple Corp, EMI Music, and Harrisongs to come to a fair agreement.

At the very least, any profit they make isn't enough to make up for the razor thin margins on the hardware that Viacom and EA subsidize. To put it into prespective, 40 million DLC track sales made about $1 billion in revenue. However, Rock Band has been a constant money sink for both companies.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I like how you can tell which posts are taking up for Japan just by looking at their anime avatars.

People who like japanese games think japanese games are good?

HOLY SHIT; CONNECTION, CONFIRMED! :OOOO

 

[Haunted]

I like how you can tell which posts are taking up for Japan just by looking at their anime avatars.

I love Japanese games.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

He's talking about relevant and ambitious titles from Japan. In terms of games associated with being blockbusters, outside of Nintendo and Capcom, Japanese games that reach some sort of success are very few and far inbetween...even in Japan...

EDIT - "Fresh" what are you people talking about? How many blockbuster Western games have we seen this generation that can be defined as "fresh", especially from the third parties? Some? Sure. Many? Probably not.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

He's talking about relevant and ambitious titles from Japan. In terms of games associated with being blockbusters, outside of Nintendo and Capcom, Japanese games that reach some sort of success are very few and far inbetween...even in Japan...

EDIT - "Fresh" what are you people talking about? How many blockbuster Western games have we seen this generation that can be defined as "fresh", especially from the third parties? Some? Sure. Many? Probably not.

Fresh means "appeals to me" in Latin, don't you know?

That said, I like JP, NA, and EU games equally as long as they are good.

With so much variety, things tend to not get old very quickly for me.

 

[Archie]

Does EA make any money off Rock band DLC?

No. EA is merely the distribution partner. The money is split between the band, the label, MTV Games and the console manufacturer.

 

[P90]

American made console, very similar to PC to code for, PC devs start doing there stuff on said console, boom new hardcore system.

Doesn't the 360 have a made in China sticker?

 

[Zoc]

Japan is just a little out of sync with the West at the moment, that's all. The Japanese government is actually looking to games, along with music, anime, and manga, to fill some of the economic gap left by Japan's failing construction industry and agriculture. Japanese game makers aren't going anywhere. It's true that they've stumbled on the PS3 and Wii, but they can overcome that.

Also, games companies know that Japan's shrinking population won't be enough to support an expanding games industry, which is why they've been trying to copy Western game styles, as noted in this thread. I think it's too early to judge their success, though. Keep in mind that this is a very recent phenomenon, and that all through the PS2 era most Japanese companies gave almost zero thought to the foreign market. Even now, many big companies hardly do, including the biggest one of all, Nintendo.

In time, Japanese companies will figure out ways to make games that play to their strengths while still tweaking them to appeal more to the West, and they'll figure out how to make games with bigger budgets and better production values. No need to worry so much.

 

[P90]

what about konami? does konami matters anymore besides housing kojima development studio?

In the past, Yu-Gi-Oh games and related products pretty much paid for the rest of Konami.

 

[lordmrw]

I think it would also help if Japan embraced the 360 more... it simply is the much more simple to work with console. Plus Sony has adopted a somewhat anti 2D stance which is ridiculous *Cave shooters now all on 360, yay*

Nextgen wil hopefully make things a bit easier with better interfacing for programmers *glares at Sony*

Your solution is for japanese developers, whose games have already flopped on the xbox, to put even more games on the xbox? Really?

 

[Icarus]

Korean games (and I'm stereotyping) are built around a connected market. MMOs being only one possible form that it can take. It means service oriented business, not packaged, disconnected business.

In that regard, I agree with Hilleman (and indirectly with Inafune because Japan is not embracing connectedness).

 

[Firestorm]

He might also be talking about how TGS is so small this year that even the no-name companies from China who nobody's heard of are in the main hall.

 

[ghst]

Korean games (and I'm stereotyping) are built around a connected market. MMOs being only one possible form that it can take. It means service oriented business, not packaged, disconnected business.

In that regard, I agree with Hilleman (and indirectly with Inafune because Japan is not embracing connectedness).

battle.net says you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[achilles140]

Well ,its clear the core userbase of Japan has decreased a good 50% in the last years.And many of the new users (most of whom purchase the Wii or DS as consoles) are casual gamers that buy the machine for the bundled game or 2-3 games at best and they leave it to gather dust.

Still ,there are some bright spots.

The franchises with some name have sold the same on the new machines as they did in the very popular PS2 even if the userbase is a lot smaller.DMC4 ,Metal Gear Solid 4,Hot Shots Golf ,Yakuza ,Resident Evil ,Gran Turismo Prologue ,Pro Evolution Soccer ....each and every of these games have sold comparably to their latest opus on the PS2,some even better.Tales of Vesperia has sold to date 350K units between PS3 and 360 and can hope for at least 450K units ,a very good number for a Tales game.Once you add the PS3 numbers to SOIV the numbers can easily top 500K units ,comparable to SO3 released on the PS2 heyday.The Gundam,Macross and other mechas games are selling really well on the PSP,the DS and even the PS3 when they appear in the later.

Still ,its clear they have made a lot of mistakes.I have never ,ever ,understood why Sony has always refused to carry Singstar to Japan with local songs.I really dont understand it.And I have my doubts they will release Eye Pet in Japan .Similarly ,if the music games as Guitar Hero ,Rock Band ,DJ Hero etc had been localised for Japan ,well promoted and with a japanese-music portfolio it could have been a massive hit that drove the industry.


Most japanese developers are very small and have had real problems adapting to the HD generation .They have opted for the DS ,PSP and Wii to continue their games and have been left behind in technology and art direction.

I hope things get better.I still think a well designed japanese game by Capcom ,Tecmo ,Konami ,Sega ,Square ,Namco ,some Sony teams(Team Ico,Polyphony ,Clap Hanz),Nintendo and some others is something very special and truly different to the usual occidental game with cool and dark characters and bald space marines.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

He might also be talking about how TGS is so small this year that even the no-name companies from China who nobody's heard of are in the main hall.

Or he's just trying to push his games.

"Japan sucks, cept capcom. They're so awesome. I wish I worked at capcom, with all of their kickass games.*wink*"

 

[Haunted]

At least Japanese games took home the last 5 GAF GOTY awards

Spoiler

, although Fallout 3 should've won in 2008.

 

[The Steve]

BioShock should have won 2007.

 

[beelzebozo]

BioShock should have won 2007.

it would have, had it not been up against some of the stiffest competition in. . . uh, ever?

 

[achilles140]

And E3 also had 2-3 pathetic years until this year edition .......lets hope TGS rises from its ashes.

 

[fortified_concept]

complete and utter bullshit .handhelds are not previous gen because they were released this gen, and unlike consoles they're actually popular as well and allow developers to pump out games fairly quickly

you're talking about horrible this, and primitive that yet the DS and PSP have excellent games that actually excel their console counteparts in many cases. syphon filter on PSP is way better than uncharted, resistance on psp is way better than the PS3 one. the new MGS is supposed to be amazing and could quite feasibly be better than MGS4, same goes for the new valkyria chronicles.

the rpgs on ds smoke a lot of the stuff on PS3 and xbox and often and i still see people hyping garbage like cross edge because it's "next gen" . DS and PSP games tend to have excellent presentation and developers have no problems experimenting with gameplay mechanics in interesting ways

besides, what's so revolutionary about halo 3 or uncharted? fuck all that's what

companies wanting to make money isn't "lazy", it's smart business. the alternative is going bankrupt developing for unpopular systens that cost loads to develop form and cant sell software for shit

Maybe I should have worded better my post because it seems some people have misunderstood me.

I'm not saying that a developer becomes automatically lazy by developing for handhelds. I'm saying that they've fallen far behind western developers by focusing so much on handhelds which provide easy money from sales in the local market. It doesn't mean you have to abandon a part of the industry just because you can make quick money on another.

But I'll insist on the horrible presentation and old gameplay mechanics being easier to hide on handhelds. Most DS RPGs for example would look just as bad if remade for HD as TriAce RPGs look on next gen consoles.

HD developers have made great progress on animation, presentation, character interaction with other characters or the environment while implementing stuff like physics and lighting on gameplay. HD games can offer more enemies, bigger environments, amazing atmosphere or for example depict the chaos of war much better than previous gen gaming devices ever could. The way I see it, updated graphics isn't only thing HD consoles offer, it's a new game experience.

Maybe I've become spoiled by all of the above or maybe it's because game presentation means a lot to me but sometimes it's hard to go back to handhelds. I'm not saying handheld games aren't fun but the reason why there are new console and handheld generations is to keep things fresh, and things don't feel fresh on the handheld front anymore.

To conclude, I'm not trying to bash handheld gaming, I just think that Japanese developers are focusing too much on it while western devs are talking over everything else.

 

[Aru]

The day japanese developers stop making japanese games, I'm done with gaming.

 

[The Steve]

The day japanese developers stop making japanese games, I'm done with gaming.

Glad you're willing to try different things.

 

[beelzebozo]

The day japanese developers stop making japanese games, I'm done with gaming.

you realize that by definition any game a japanese developer makes is a japanese game, yeah?

 

[Fakto]

The only problem with the Japanese vg industry is that it's japanese. And japan has big self esteem problems, they think that what they do only can be liked/successful in japan, and that is a general feeling.
It happens with the J-music, the cinema, shows, and video games, etc.

So they go and try to "analyze" the western market to make games more appealing for it [wrongly assuming that the actual ones aren't], in the process the screw up; mostly because instead of hiring international devs and making a mixed team, they try to psychoanalyse the market and do the product by themselves, and happens what happens.


P.S. I want my Yakuza 3 NAO !!

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I'd actually say western developers are missing the boat by not capitalizing on handhelds, not that Japanese developers are missing it by putting some weight behind them.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

The way I see it, updated graphics isn't only thing HD consoles offer, it's a new game experience.

The problem is that many devs, on both sides, only release the same old stuff in HD.

You are assuming that just because HD consoles bring so many things to the table that most devs take advantage of those things.

The problem with your argument is that you are stating how things should be, NOT how they actually are.

Not to say that there aren't amazing devs that do amazing things on HD consoles.

In fact, devs that make handheld games are probably more willing to break the mold because it's cheaper.

They can go all out with new ideas because they wouldn't lose as much money(assuming it doesn't sell well or the ideas weren't implemented well) as if they put it on an HD console, at least that's what I think.

 

[fortified_concept]

The problem is that many devs, on both sides, only release the same old stuff in HD.

You are assuming that just because HD consoles bring so many things to the table that most devs take advantage of those things.

I acknowledge this problem but it's not as widespread as you say. For example this is what I said about Capcom in this very thread:

I know some people are gonna get pissed at me for saying this but the way I see it Capcom is as stuck in the previous gen as the rest of Japanese developers. The only thing they've managed to achieve was to successfully update their graphics engine to make their games look great. Other than that the mechanics, gameplay, animation and presentation of their games are all previous gen. Both DMC4 and RE5 felt like playing a previous gen games. Lost Planet was mediocre and not on par with western games either. I know there's much praise for Capcom but I don't think it's well deserved.

 

[beelzebozo]

who exactly would you say IS making something hd-specific that is nothing like what would have been released last generation? i'm pressed to think of one.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

who exactly would you say IS making something hd-specific that is nothing like what would have been released last generation? i'm pressed to think of one.

I'm more for wanting to know what a next-gen game "feels" like.

 

[Shig]

I think it would also help if Japan embraced the 360 more... it simply is the much more simple to work with console. Plus Sony has adopted a somewhat anti 2D stance which is ridiculous *Cave shooters now all on 360, yay*

Nextgen wil hopefully make things a bit easier with better interfacing for programmers *glares at Sony*

Your solution is for japanese developers, whose games have already flopped on the xbox, to put even more games on the xbox? Really?

He didn't say Japanese developers, he said Japan. As in, more consumers there should give the console a chance. There's really no good reason for it to be as maligned by the Japanese public as it is, it's got a solid line-up of games they historically like, even some notable exclusives.

 

[The Steve]

I'm more for wanting to know what a next-gen game "feels" like.

It feels like Batman: AA, Red Faction: Guerilla, Dead Space, Fallout 3, Left 4 Dead and Mass Effect.

 

[Tiktaalik]

In this thread: Posters unable to separate "Japanese video games" from "what Japanese video game producers have made recently that they just showed at TGS."

 

[Fimbulvetr]

It feels like Batman: AA, Red Faction: Guerilla, Dead Space, Fallout 3, Left 4 Dead and Mass Effect.

:/

 

[Decado]

In Capcom's defense, they're probably the most Western-friendly Japanese developer. (Not really counting Nintendo here)

They understand the 'culture' of games better than most Japanese companies. See their Unity website as a good example. I actually used Capcom-Unity in a presentation recently on how companies can connect with their customer/fanbases.

But Inafune is on point: I think Western devs have come a LONG way since the 80's and early 90's. It's like the U.S. & Europe have learned a lot of lessons from our competitors overseas, but they're not learning from us.

It's been a one-way street so long that Japan has fallen behind in a big way.

North American and European developers have always been ahead of Japanese developers in most genres. They haven't actually gotten better...they've just focused on more mainstream genres and platforms (consoles).

That said, Japanese devs were much better last generation.