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[Tallshortman]

It must be irresistible at this point they know the base will happily pay for it. Online being free on the PS3 was always down to Sony having to start from the bottom and keep the goodwill of their users. They promised it would stay free for the PS3 .

This new machine will probably mean a change in that promise. I think they'll put more and more features behind PSNPlus on the new machine, And if they end up keeping online free they'll make it as barebones as possible.

So you'll have to subscribe.

That doesn't make business sense if you're in a very tight battle with a competitor and need your big advantages. They'd be losing a serious advantage since a good amount of people use their consoles as media consumption devices and as previously show, the PS3 is seemingly the most popular and I have no doubt a large part of the reason is because their apps aren't locked behind a paywall.

Why go up to MS's territory when you can use your advantage to put pressure on them to come to your level instead? It seems like PS+ is bringing in a good amount of revenue, I don't think they will resort to going MS's direction. I know I won't pay for any online service that is required for online play from either company.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

They will still produce some amazing games for the industry as well though, nintendo has never been about huge 3rd party support, they build a system for themselves to release their games on and the 3rd party support is just a bonus.

Yeah I totally agree. We just need Wii U Fit to bomb so all their studios can focus on great Ip.

 

[Reiko]

If the next Xbox launches before Playstation, I'll be buying that first. I just hope they launch with some new ip instead of relying on the same Forza/Fable/Halo trio.

Ryse

 

[Dabanton]

Sorry but I doubt 360 has sold just for the friends community, it sounds really a semplicistic vision from my point of view. I think the more acceasible price has been the major factor.

Price is important but Xbox 360 just made it so easy to get together with people to play that It made a big difference and will make a big difference going ahead.

Online gaming as a key feature has come into it's own this gen. It's unthinkable for a console to not come with it.

And with that comes you being able to play with your friends from the comfort of your own home. That matters a lot to people. From the young kids playing with classmates from school to us older guys who can play and chat with the buddies we don't get to see everyday.

Knowing your friend has the same console as you but most importantly a whole bunch of you can go on a game ans play together is a powerful thing.

Add in stuff like game peer pressure and MS played it very cannily this gen.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

It must be irresistible at this point they know the base will happily pay for it. Online being free on the PS3 was always down to Sony having to start from the bottom and keep the goodwill of their users. They promised it would stay free for the PS3 .

This new machine will probably mean a change in that promise. I think they'll put more and more features behind PSNPlus on the new machine, And if they end up keeping online free they'll make it as barebones as possible.

So you'll have to subscribe.

As long as online play, friend lists ect are free Sony will be fine even if they buff up PS+ but if they go full on live they are in trouble. That is the single biggest thing I think that keeps MS at bay and Sony the safe choise for europe. Thats why if other one will change their current methods it will have much more dramatic effect than difference in power or launch date.

 

[abadguy]

If the next Xbox launches before Playstation, I'll be buying that first. I just hope they launch with some new ip instead of relying on the same Forza/Fable/Halo trio.

The 360 had new IP's when it launched, i don't see why that would suddenly stop with the next gen.

Isn't that a kinect game?

The MGS studios guy( forget his name) described it as being a "hybrid" game that would use both the controller and Kinect when it was revealed at E3.

Edit: Phil Spencer was the guy who said it. http://123kinect.com/ryse-game-playable-controller-kinect/19980/

 

[Sid]

Ryse

Isn't that a kinect game?

 

[Uno Venova]

If the next Xbox launches before Playstation, I'll be buying that first. I just hope they launch with some new ip instead of relying on the same Forza/Fable/Halo trio.

They'll have some new IP's but I'm still skeptical that once they get successful they'll just take those two or three franchises and rely on a new sequel every other year like this gen.

 

[Reiko]

Isn't that a kinect game?

Moved to next gen. Rumored to be one of those "Better with Kinect games".

But then Kinect could also have been dropped for it's next gen version.

 

[Punchpudding]

It's not but what people have to understand is your most recent impression is what people have to go on when you're unveiling new systems and starting over. I can't assume 720 will be as awesome from the start just because 360 was for the first few years, I have to judge them by their most recent decisions until actual news comes out. It's also why I had no faith at all in Nintendo when Wii U was coming out and why I have total faith in Sony to make me happy as a gamer with PS4. Hell there's a possibility (although it seems to be increasingly small) that I could get PS4 and whatever games are coming at launch in the same year as last of us and beyond on ps3. That's a hell of a year potentially.

At first I thought your post was going to be "It's not but it is" but the "until actual news comes out" part is fair. It doesn't really matter what we assume about any company until we can start piecing together what their overall plan is. It does seem like an MS launch in holiday 2013 is very likely though.

 

[Sid]

Moved to next gen. Rumored to be one of those "Better with Kinect games".

Interesting last i saw it was a first person hack and slasher,i hope crytek do the concept art justice,gonna pick a 720 as well at launch anyways but this will be icing on the cake.

 

[theangrypirate]

If the next Xbox launches before Playstation, I'll be buying that first. I just hope they launch with some new ip instead of relying on the same Forza/Fable/Halo trio.

Yeah, that trio is a bit depressing to me :/ I'll definitely get whichever comes out first though... then I will probably get the other one a few months after launch.

 

[Canis lupus]

Still have to wait about 3 months probably, because I don't expect MS to talk about Durango until after Gears Judgment releases on March 19. GDC starts Mar 25. MS talked about the "next Xbox" at GDC 2005 before the May MTV reveal.

I wish they get announced in the next few months rather than E3.

 

[Biggzy]

Interesting last i saw it was a first person hack and slasher,i hope crytek do the concept art justice,gonna pick a 720 as well at launch anyways but this will be icing on the cake.

We know very little of the game. Rumors circulated that MS were unhappy with its development and demanded the game to be moved to Crytek Frankfurt and pushed the game to next-gen.

 

[tinfoilhatman]

All I can say is 100% of PSN games better be compatible with PS4(and running in native 1080p), if not people are gonna be pissed.

 

[KageMaru]

All I can say is 100% of PSN games better be compatible with PS4(and running in native 1080p), if not people are gonna be pissed.

I can understand people being upset about losing all of their digital content, but why does it have to be running natively at 1080p?

If that were really the case, I think A LOT of people are going to be pissed.

 

[Sid]

All I can say is 100% of PSN games better be compatible with PS4(and running in native 1080p), if not people are gonna be pissed.

BC doesn't look likely but i hope it's there at least in some kinda premium model.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

I can understand people being upset about losing all of their digital content, but why does it have to be running natively at 1080p?

If that were really the case, I think A LOT of people are going to be pissed.

If they are compatible, I'll be fine with that. I suspect they won't be though and that Sony will encourage users to keep their PS3. It's a slippery slope for them. I hope they can navigate it well.

 

[Proxy]

Isn't it likely both of them won't have bc? They're both using different CPU architectures and hardware bc is probably going to be prohibitively expensive for both.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Isn't it likely both of them won't have bc? They're both using different CPU architectures and hardware bc is probably going to be prohibitively expensive for both.

From what I've read, MS has been able to reduce down to a SoC solution. Sony cannot at this point. Unknown if possible down the road or via emulation. Gaikai is talked about as a solution, but not all believe it to be so.

 

[KKRT00]

All I can say is 100% of PSN games better be compatible with PS4(and running in native 1080p), if not people are gonna be pissed.

I can tell You that now, they wont be. They are using CELL too and without reprogramming, they wont be compatible with Orbis.

 

[Proxy]

From what I've read, MS has been able to reduce down to a SoC solution. Sony can not at this point. Unknown if possible down the road or via emulation. Gaikai is talked about as a solution, but not all believe it to be so.

Interesting. Well I guess we'll see.

 

[tinfoilhatman]

I can understand people being upset about losing all of their digital content, but why does it have to be running natively at 1080p?

If that were really the case, I think A LOT of people are going to be pissed.

Sorry that part is more wishful thinking by me and probably not a realistic "requirement"

 

[KageMaru]

^ Ah I see.

If they are compatible, I'll be fine with that. I suspect they won't be though and that Sony will encourage users to keep their PS3. It's a slippery slope for them. I hope they can navigate it well.

Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out. Retail games are one thing but digital games is one aspect I hope they haven't overlooked. That could be a lot of money lost or tied to specific hardware.

Isn't it likely both of them won't have bc? They're both using different CPU architectures and hardware bc is probably going to be prohibitively expensive for both.

I have little hope of BC for either console, but I couldn't care less about BC anyways.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if MS at least offered BC for digital items or limited BC for retail releases.

From what I've read, MS has been able to reduce down to a SoC solution. Sony cannot at this point. Unknown if possible down the road or via emulation. Gaikai is talked about as a solution, but not all believe it to be so.

Can you elaborate what you mean by this? MS moved the 360 hardware to a SoC when they introduced the slim, but I have major doubts they'll include that hardware in the 720.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Can you elaborate what you mean by this? MS moved the 360 hardware to a SoC when they introduced the slim, but I have major doubts they'll include that hardware in the 720.

I'm only referring to what we've seen rumored here, on VG247 and elsewhere. I'm not saying they will. I'm just saying that being able to reduce it to a SoC allows MS greater flexibility than Sony. Should they not be able to emulate in some fashion, a small SoC in each Nextbox is possible, regardless of how likely it is.

 

[iceatcs]

Keep the digital content is new way to keep the fan base on next gen.
We shall see if MS doing that then Sony will.


There are many of rumours on MS with ARM chip for a secondary processor. I suspect it could be for apps. With that ecosystem then you can use this same app on xbox or window RT or phone.

 

[Raist]

Nah, microsoft will own europe this upcoming generation. I strongly believe a lot of europe has been disapointed with PS3 games and online.

Yeah, clearly.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=503507

 

[quest]

Agreed. MS will not wait until E3 to announce, and possibly get drowned out by other noise (announcements) etc.. Instead I predict they will do some kind of dedicated hardware announcement conference (like with Surface but bigger) a few months before E3. Then at E3 everyone is expect the full unveil of the curtin behind the next Xbox. They'll ride the hype train into E3 from the start, garnering attention before it even kicks off. Then with all eyes on them this year they'll unleash.

Then release November 2013.

I don't see how they can get a bigger audience of the press and viewers than E3. They are not apple the main stream press is not going to really cover a special 720 presser. It is not going to make the news like an E3 announcement would make. A special presser only gets gaming sites and tech sites there. It would be a disaster IMO. They could go do what Sega did and do half hour MTV special. That could be maybe the only way to get the same audience E3 would. If they are smart both sony and MS start teaser ads a few weeks before E3 to get gamers and casuals to tune into spike TV for E3. I could see spike advertising this on all their shows and network for a few weeks to build up hype even dual count down clocks 1 for sony one for MS. Move the pressers to prime time to get as many people as possible.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Nah, microsoft will own europe this upcoming generation. I strongly believe a lot of europe has been disapointed with PS3 games and online. This will be xbox's 3rd console in europe and I think their brand will be of similar popularity as playstation was during the PS2 era.

since you're from canada, i guess i understand why you would make such a silly statement. you clearly don't know what's the situation in the european market.

 

[3rdman]

Isn't it likely both of them won't have bc? They're both using different CPU architectures and hardware bc is probably going to be prohibitively expensive for both.

Perhaps things have changed, but MS was pretty militant about NOT coding to the metal but instead using their libraries and Direct-X equivalent for the 360. This would make every title BC by default...

I'm no programmer, but this is what I've been led to understand.

 

[KageMaru]

Perhaps things have changed, but MS was pretty militant about NOT coding to the metal but instead using their libraries and Direct-X equivalent for the 360. This would make every title BC by default...

I'm no programmer, but this is what I've been led to understand.

This is not true, coding to the metal is commonly done on the 360.

 

[Proxy]

Perhaps things have changed, but MS was pretty militant about NOT coding to the metal but instead using their libraries and Direct-X equivalent for the 360. This would make every title BC by default...

I'm no programmer, but this is what I've been led to understand.

All consoles use APIs. Games are still coded for specific hardware though and the more complex the hardware the harder it is to emulate.

 

[mrklaw]

Why is it more desirable for your digital purchases to be BC than your physical discs? Surely digital is primarily a different delivery mechanism bringing convenient access.

If its not BC on 720/PS4 then I'd guess that would apply to all games? And like physical, digital will still work on your current console.

If MS stay with IBM for the CPU they might be able to pull off BC, but if they go AMD then it might not be doable. Sony is much less likely if they don't have cell and switch from nvidia to AMD for the GPU

 

[KageMaru]

Why is it more desirable for your digital purchases to be BC than your physical discs? Surely digital is primarily a different delivery mechanism bringing convenient access.

If its not BC on 720/PS4 then I'd guess that would apply to all games? And like physical, digital will still work on your current console.

If MS stay with IBM for the CPU they might be able to pull off BC, but if they go AMD then it might not be doable. Sony is much less likely if they don't have cell and switch from nvidia to AMD for the GPU

I tend to build up a large library of games to play throughout a generation and then sell/trade in my collection plus console to help pay for the coming generation. I can't sell or trade my digital titles, so I would at least hope to have the option to play them in the future.

You can get something for your physical games, but lost digital titles is money down the drain. At least I imagine that's the reasoning for most here.

 

[mrklaw]

I tend to build up a large library of games to play throughout a generation and then sell/trade in my collection plus console to help pay for the coming generation. I can't sell or trade my digital titles, so I would at least hope to have the option to play them in the future.

You can get something for your physical games, but lost digital titles is money down the drain. At least I imagine that's the reasoning for most here.

I gues that's fair enough, although you bought those digital titles with your eyes open and the possibility they'd be stuck on your console - not literally, not unless you also have a Wii U

Does anyone here know if different levels of PSN/XBL titles are allowed different levels of hardware access? Eg does an XBLA/PSn title need to stick with higher level drivers?

 

[Jadedx]

I really think MS is going to do better than they did this gen, they have the very successful xbox live, they have a huge first party now, most of whom are making new ips, kinect 2 for for casuals and kids, and set top and other media features. The competition is not going to be as tough, the wii u will not be as successful as the wii, and Sony probably will not be going super power with their next console, the way they are bleeding money they can't afford the make a console that they don't instantly make a profit from.

 

[Tears For Fears]

since you're from canada, i guess i understand why you would make such a silly statement. you clearly don't know what's the situation in the european market.

Want to bet your account on it?

 

[Brad Grenz]

I'm only referring to what we've seen rumored here, on VG247 and elsewhere. I'm not saying they will. I'm just saying that being able to reduce it to a SoC allows MS greater flexibility than Sony. Should they not be able to emulate in some fashion, a small SoC in each Nextbox is possible, regardless of how likely it is.

The 360 hardware may have been reduced to a single chip, but it's hardly a "small SoC". And while Sony hasn't shrunk the PS3 chipset to a single die, that's only because they wouldn't save enough money on manufacturing to offset the cost of such a redesign. In either case backwards compatibility would likely involve an expensive hardware solution, ala the original PS3 phats. In fact, the hard to emulate part of the PS3 (the SPE co-processors the Cell CPU) are actually tiny and could be integrated into a potential AMD fusion APU chip without making it much bigger in a way not feasible with the 360's PPE cores. That would be a fairly expensive design problem up front, rather than a significant ongoing cost as with integrating the whole previous gen chipset in perpetuity.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

All I can say is 100% of PSN games better be compatible with PS4(and running in native 1080p), if not people are gonna be pissed.

I don't think that will be a big problem, how many PSN games are there which have a really big replay value that you will be pissed when they won't work on the PS4? I have a couple of PSN games, but after I complete them I simply delete them. And I guess there will be many new games on launch, especially cross-generation games.

Want to bet your account on it?

Seriously, what is your problem? This is probably the third time where you are spreading useless FUD and act like you know something when you clearly don't know anything.

GAF will be glorious once ps4 specs are released. The meltdowns are already happening.

Already said this, GAF is going to have a meltdown. Mark my words.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

This is not true, coding to the metal is commonly done on the 360.

It isn't. We went over this in another thread, but going outside the API will auto fail you at cert. It doesn't matter that much though since Direct X gets you a good enough level of performance/access that "coding to the metal" and writing your own wrapper likely isn't worth the effort/cost demanded. Microsoft seems to be the only one this strict on it though, Nintendo and Sony pretty much let you do whatever (so did Sega). Microsoft also reportedly has the best API by a country mile, so it's probably less of an issue.

 

[Reiko]

It isn't. We went over this in another thread, but going outside the API will auto fail you at cert. It doesn't matter that much though since Direct X gets you a good enough level of performance/access that "coding to the metal" and writing your own wrapper likely isn't worth the effort/cost demanded. Microsoft seems to be the only one this strict on it though, Nintendo and Sony pretty much let you do whatever (so did Sega). Microsoft also reportedly has the best API by a country mile, so it's probably less of an issue.

Wrong.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1652084&postcount=7

The user is a developer for Redlynx.

Who worked on Trials Evolution for the Xbox 360

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-trials-evolution-tech-interview

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Wrong.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1652084&postcount=7

The user is a developer for Redlynx.

Who worked on Trials Evolution for the Xbox 360

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-trials-evolution-tech-interview

Keep reading that thread, there were denials from EA Canada devs later on about direct GPU calls being passable and confirmed in a Eurogamer article.

Microsoft published the Trials HD games so it's possible RedLynx was given a 1st party exception though. Or it may be a recent policy change, but it was certainly a no go a couple years back.

 

[Reiko]

Keep reading that thread, there were denials from EA Canada devs later on about dirirect GPU calls being passable and confirmed in a Eurogamer article.

Microsoft published the Trials HD games so it's possible RedLynx was given 1st party exception though.

That and I wouldn't be surprised if 343i were given permissions as well.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Wow.

I just realised a lot of the people who have very strong opinions about how these consoles will be designed and revealed were kids when the last ones were designed and revealed.

People should watch the original Xbox reveal presser the whole way through, read up on Kaz, read up on Microsoft's deep trouble and Sony's deep trouble and then (and only then) speculate what's going to be inside the box.

For one, if Apple really is going to go for the television, this thing just got serious.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

That doesn't make business sense if you're in a very tight battle with a competitor and need your big advantages. They'd be losing a serious advantage since a good amount of people use their consoles as media consumption devices and as previously show, the PS3 is seemingly the most popular and I have no doubt a large part of the reason is because their apps aren't locked behind a paywall.

Why go up to MS's territory when you can use your advantage to put pressure on them to come to your level instead? It seems like PS+ is bringing in a good amount of revenue, I don't think they will resort to going MS's direction. I know I won't pay for any online service that is required for online play from either company.

This reads like wishful thinking. It makes even less business sense to leave money on the table by not taking from all revenue streams available, especially when said business is currently facing financial troubles. Sony keeping their current free model intact nextgen is a pipedream. I expect Sony to add MP and other features to the plus model, though media streaming, browser function and the like will remain free.

Personally I have no problem with this. Sony has done a better job providing value to thier online product and that is the strenght they will focus on & market. MS has made too much headway in consumer acceptance of the paid model, and too much money for Sony to ignore. Sony will transition to a fully paid model next gen, they have little choice and great need.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Sony won't put MP behind a paywall. PS+ is getting more and more popular, even without MP. And if Microsoft suddenly decides to give people MP for free, Sony would be fucked. Free MP is a big plus for many PS3 owners, they won't change that, but I guess there will be a lot more additions to PS+ so that it would be unattractive to not have PS+.

 

[JaseC]

Sony won't put MP behind a paywall. PS+ is getting more and more popular, even without MP. And if Microsoft suddenly decides to give people MP for free, Sony would be fucked. Free MP is a big plus for many PS3 owners, they won't change that, but I guess there will be a lot more additions to PS+ so that it would be unattractive to not have PS+.

I hope Sony barring OS-level functionality behind PS+ dies with the PS3. Automatic updates, background downloads, and so forth should be endemic to the firmware in general, not locked behind a paywall.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

MS proved console gamers will pay for online, if Sony wasn't in such financial hardships they may afford to make a show of goodwill to gamers. But they are having money issues, and adapting portions of MS's paid model is simply just logical. Sony will charge for MP next gen and aside from a very few going PC, gamers will pay, they have little choice.

Hey I could be dead wrong. I do doubt it, but we'll see.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I hope Sony barring OS-level functionality behind PS+ dies with the PS3. Automatic updates, background downloads, and so forth should be endemic to the firmware in general, not locked behind a paywall.

Agree with this. I think it was more a relic of a time when PS+ didn't really have any great value, so they fluffed it by hiding OS features behind it.

Now with their strategy of content, which is catching on significantly, I see little reason why they should continue that practice. No one buys PS+ for automatic updates.

 

[alphaNoid]

All I can say is 100% of PSN games better be compatible with PS4(and running in native 1080p), if not people are gonna be pissed.

I think there are going to be a LOT of upset games when this comes out.

MS proved console gamers will pay for online, if Sony wasn't in such financial hardships they may afford to make a show of goodwill to gamers. But they are having money issues, and adapting portions of MS's paid model is simply just logical. Sony will charge for MP next gen and aside from a very few going PC, gamers will pay, they have little choice.

Hey I could be dead wrong. I do doubt it, but we'll see.

Nah, its their marketing leverage. PSN feature wise is catching up to Live, however experience wise its night and day. Its clear which company is a software giant and which isn't, its visible in their infrastructure, use of standardizations, software and prowess with power to third parties. To this day the best thing about PSN is that its free, and thats why a lot of people use it. Next gen MS is going to be unifying all of their platforms into one service. Nearly 8 years of dedicated work to rewrite systems from the ground up to integrate with one another nearly complete. This ain't no 'upgrade' like people may be thinking. Xbox, Surface, Windows, Windows Phone.. all interacting, sharing data and living in the same space, playing together, cloud sharing.. you name it. Sony doesn't stand a chance and doesn't have the means, the infrastructure nor the know how to remotely keep up feature for feature with MS going forward.

So they will not charge for online play, its one of the few things they go going for them. However the real question is .. does Microsoft want to put the nail in the coffin? Will they remove the pay wall for Gold? Maybe introduce a premium tier to replace it? If XBL Gold, and everything it comes with today is free next gen... bad news for Sony. I hope for Sony's sake they have something up their sleeve, however people need to realize there are are 'so many' people in the industry (wide) with the technical know how to architect systems to the level of competing directly with the like of Google, Microsoft or Apple.. and MOST of those brains are already working for those 3 companies. Its very.. very unlikely Sony has the talent .. and money to steer the ship in that direction. So they'll play the safe card, the 'gamer' card and offer free online, more 'me too' features and try to convince people their platform is the real gaming device.

Microsoft has moved some of their head brains into the Xbox division, guys who invented the Windows NT kernal and more recently engineered their entire Azure and cloud backend systems (ie Dave Cutler). Ahem.. Dave Cutler has been working on the Xbox team for over a year now. Thats uhh... thats something people. The Xbox brand is no longer childs play at MS, they have secretly brought in the big guns... moved some of their head people from the Windows teams over to Xbox.. and for what? We dont' know yet... we'll find out next year I suppose.