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[kiguel182]

Yup

No matter how pointless they seem to the PC enthusiast crowd, plug and play boxes will never go away, at least not for a LONG time.

I play a lot of games and the idea of spending 800+ dollars and doing all the work to set up a PC is something I have no interest in doing. I doubt the mainstream consumer is more inclined to do that.

Consoles will continue to make sense as long as people want to play AAA games in the easiest and cheapest way possible.

 

[Dice]

I don't really understand the point of it, if I wanted to do constant iterative upgrades, I'll just buy a PC where I can easily swap out a Graphics Card rather than an entire box.

Yeah, I'm not rolling with that. I'll keep my Xbone because I already have a lot of games and it's a nice bluray/stream box, but iterative consoles is an awful idea for me. I like the community ecosystem of consoles and sharing clips and stuff, but simplicity and optimization are the real reasons to go console. If console gaming is continuing to become more like PC and also press influence into PC platforms so that more developers will have an interest in learning how to develop for PC on their own even apart from those platforms (making exclusives less and less of a thing), there will be no reason to keep with console.

I want to be building a PC next since Xbone was my intended bridge up till then. It will be a great time to build in a year or two since CPUs have mostly hit their limit in raw power so now innovations of architecture will be coming out soon. Nice efficient and cool PC with better-than-ever throughput between components? Yes, please. Consoles will be left playing catch-up not just in power but in options like 120hz and mods as always. And with consoles becoming iterative, developers will have to invest more into being friendly with scaling engines and design philosophy, so the "disrespect" of flat console ports prior will be going away as well.

Combine all of this with mobile platforms becoming more powerful to open up to a larger share of the flourishing indie scene and it really makes sense why MS is trying to convert Xbox into a gaming platform across devices. I think consoles will continue being around, but the whole environment of the industry is going through quite a transformation. Do I think it will necessarily help them catch up with Sony in the short-term, or possibly even on the next gen of consoles? No, but MS will be far ahead in the world that is emerging. They paid really good attention to Apple and Valve and are trying to work things out so Xbox can be a platform that gets them solid income long term even without being the leader in console branding.

 

[Crayon]

Aw yeah. Finally some drama. I should put some coffee on.

 

[SOR5]

Well i said that just a dream of mine, it would mean no more reason to buy a console, unless you want to go cheap and have a "easier" plug and play device. I'd finally only use my gaming PC for everything

It would be ace, I dont know, I think theres some slight slight chance they could pursue something like that, but it would be so risky

 

[icespide]

Damn, who is the bussiness advisor on MS? because this is a disaster waiting to happen

- It dillutes the consumer base
- It adds MORE work to the development side
- It makes consoles more expensive
- It is really NOT comparable to an iPhone, where the upgrade is "forced" by brand attachment, social status and usefulness of the device itself.

Bye bye.

if Sony is doing it too they really have no choice if they want to stay competitive

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

FTFY

Well that story should be interesting. Hopefully they will tell and show us that they have learned from their mistakes and that this new Xbox won't be underpowered in any way. I mean if we go by the Neo, that's no small upgrade. MS should do at least that or more, much more.

 

[Omnistalgic]

They'll carve out a niche by offering Xbox exclusive games but pushing beyond that will be hard. Same problem Origin has.

Yea this is the biggest hurdle I see. If they can achieve some level of conversion though it could potentially be huge. Hundreds and hundreds of millions of window 10 PC's out there

 

[Zukkoyaki]

because you plug consoles into a wall!1!1!

Ease of use is a humongous factor whether you want to admit it or not. The overwhelming majority people do not "get" computers the way the enthusiast crowd on GAF does. Try working an IT job for a week and it will become apparent immediately. The number of people out there that don't even understand what an internet browser is would probably astonish you since you evidently don't leave your echo chamber.

Millions upon millions of people just want something they simply plug into their TV and lets them play games and watch Netflix. There isn't anything silly or irrational about that.

 

[Papacheeks]

Hmmmm, not sure I get your point here.

Why was everyone so crazy for hardware this generation? Because didn't we break records at launch?

Early adoption was through the roof. Consoles are outpacing previous gen by a decent margin.

And that's because more people buying early as in launch and on.

When new hardware get's introduced that's not really a new generation people wont be too keen on upgrading or buying when the new gen comes because they will have the option of a PS4K which will still be supported.

It's kind of like why apples second hand market is so great, people will still hold on to ipad2 or whatever because all the apps for the most part work.

So when PS5 or whatever even comes out people may not be so rabid to buy it right away. And that usually helps spur each generation.

And if iteration console becomes a thing and they support the previous model because each iteration is 2-3 years apart, why would people jump on right away on the newer hardware?

Is that the technical term for it?

No it's just kind of known looking at AC:unity, GHOSTS, BF4 among others that their engines are not optimized well. And that comes down to what I said about giving them more time per platform to make configurations work for each systems advantages and disadvantages.

Instead of having parity. Just make each version run the best they can and if both versions are not due at the same time they can prioritize their workflow better for their engine optimizations.

 

[Voost Kain]

Because consoles are cheaper? And they can still last you 5 or 6 years since most games would be compatible between generations except they will perform and/or look better in the newer console.

Uh what? Consoles are expensive, why do you think XO and PS4 released underpowered? Because they were not aiming to be loss leaders most likely.

Depends on how current trends continue. Personally I think we're on a path that will see Xbox as a console have almost zero true exclusives whereas Sony will have a decent proportion (still a lot less than multi-platform though).

That said I can see more people choosing PC to get Xbox titles too vs figuring they'll get Sony titles.

I believe that MS are going to see Xbox as a living room device vs PC but are going to "give up" on the traditional console audience that wants exclusives: I suspect they're going to leave that demographic to Sony/Nintendo to fight over and look to have bigger overall price across a smaller console base but a much larger PC base.

I could be wrong but I'd be amazed if percentage wise XB1 and PS4 have same multi-platform/exclusive split. PS4 should for sure have more exclusives, particularly for bigger titles. Of late - QB being the most recent example - big XB1 exclusives are only console exclusive and on PC too.

But that doesn't really make sense because games only on XO /PC would still be viewed as Xbox exclusives from people owning a PS4k/NX, or not owning a PC. I don't think they are giving up on exclusives, I think they are just treating PC as not a real threat, and since they will likely be using their own store for all their games, then well, it makes even more sense that they likely think PC is not a thread. Use their store to crush PC competition like Steam, let Xbox One Two Three get everything else.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Which will be more powerful? The Scorpio or the Neo?

If the Oculus rumors are true... Scorpio by a fair whack.

 

[vpance]

Can they really release more powerful HW than Sony w/o having the cost be higher than PS4K?, i mean... PS4 sells more than XBO and the XBO sells for less than the PS4 does. If the XBO2 releases at a higher cost than PS4K does they won't be making things any easier for them.

MS won't subsidize. They should've back in 2013 though.

 

[udivision]

if Sony is doing it too they really have no choice if they want to stay competitive

They could be their own man, like Nintendo.

Oh... nvm.

 

[icespide]

Ease of use is a humongous factor whether you want to admit it or not. The overwhelming majority people do not "get" computers the way the enthusiast crowd on GAF does. Try working an IT job for a week and it will become apparent immediately.

Millions upon millions of people just want something they simply plug into their TV and lets them play games and watch Netflix. There isn't anything silly or irrational about that.

it's not even mostly about that. I "get" computers fine but just don't want to deal with all the shit that comes along with PC gaming

 

[karasu]

The Oculus thing has to be off. You need a major pc for that thing.

 

[Ahasverus]

if Sony is doing it too they really have no choice if they want to stay competitive

The Sony strategy doesn't seem to be annual or anything. It's a resolution/feature revision, not a different console with a different architecture that is going to be passed out next year.

 

[DeepEnigma]

If the Oculus rumors are true... Scorpio by a fair whack.

The NEO is in the ballpark of Oculus spec (970ti). And if AMD got Polaris flops to be in line with nVidia, then it can be closer to 980ti or Titan X. So that means nothing.

 

[EvB]

How is it... Not the same situation?

90% of PS4 and XBox One games are on PC, why would you buy an iterative console, when you can buy a PC or maybe even a Laptop at around the same price

Please tell me where I can buy a laptop that can run Quantum Break for $300

 

[RedAssedApe]

well if we get online cross-play...it'll all be moot anyways

 

[AmFreak]

Because consoles are cheaper? And they can still last you 5 or 6 years since most games would be compatible between generations except they will perform and/or look better in the newer console.

It was questionable before upgrades were a thing if consoles are cheaper.
Now it's clear they are more expensive than a pc.
If you upgrade to the 4K you spent $800€ in 3 years.
If you spent $800€ for a PC at the PS4 start, based on the leaked PS4K specs, you would have something more powerful than the PS4K 3 years before it launched.
And if you add the ~$50€ per year for online and the higher game prices the difference gets ridiculous in favor of pc.

 

[icespide]

The Sony strategy doesn't seem to be annual or anything. It's a resolution/feature revision, not a different console with a different architecture that is going to be passed out next year.

that aspect of it isn't clear for the Xbox yet

 

[Deleted member 752119]

eh it's mostly just people that read internet forums. your average Joe has no idea

But those are the people most likely to upgrade.

And the average Joe's are uniformed and thus more likely to buy a PS4/Xbox 1 right before the new one is out/announced to the mainstream (TV ads etc.) and be pissed they bought a less powerful version.

 

[Voost Kain]

if Sony is doing it too they really have no choice if they want to stay competitive

Unless them "rumored" releasing later than Sony is them waiting for a reaction tot he console, maybe at E3, so they can sink it if it doesn't work out.

I mean, the thing is, PS4k is only a thing you would NEED to do to be competitive if things start indicating there's a potential for success (or having like 2 million pre-orders) otherwise, I don't think this statement works.

It could very well be that it could work well, or it could create controversy,which Xbox could throw back at Sony like Sony did them in 2013.

 

[kiguel182]

Ease of use is a humongous factor whether you want to admit it or not. The overwhelming majority people do not "get" computers the way the enthusiast crowd on GAF does. Try working an IT job for a week and it will become apparent immediately.

Millions upon millions of people just want something they simply plug into their TV and lets them play games and watch Netflix. There isn't anything silly or irrational about that.

I get computers and I have no interest in getting one to play games.

I like closed systems and end-to-end control. Some people rather build their PC and that's okay but it's not like the idea of not wanting to bother with that is that weird.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

it's not even mostly about that. I "get" computers fine but just don't want to deal with all the shit that comes along with PC gaming

I'm in that boat as well.

I get computers and I have no interest in getting one to play games.

I like closed systems and end-to-end control. Some people rather build their PC and that's okay but it's not like the idea of not wanting to bother with that is that weird.

Absolutely! My feelings are similar.

For people like us, and there's many millions, we would just rather take the convenient route that still provides us the great experiences we desire.

 

[Papacheeks]

did they really right the ship tho?

They stopped it from sinking dude., Because that's where it was heading, and because of the changes XBOX one is still tracking better than 360. WHich should be celebrated for the changes they made that benefits them as more people buy their box, and services.

 

[ironcreed]

That's nice. I still will not buy a new console but every 5 years or so. I'm good.

 

[SOR5]

The Sony strategy doesn't seem to be annual or anything. It's a resolution/feature revision, not a different console with a different architecture that is going to be passed out next year.

Nobody knows a thing, it really is just best to remain cautious until both announcements are made

 

[KingJ2002]

Saw this coming a mile away.

How do you make the console wars irrelevant?

You make iterative consoles so total sales don't matter... rather you shift the playing field so it becomes more about who wins the year.

...

Microsoft's Xbox console is going to go the way of the do-do if they think people are willing to upgrade their system on a yearly cycle. Graphics have been seeing diminishing returns in selling power since 2005 and adding new hardware features isn't the same as what's being done in the mobile market.

Not many will care about these upgrades and Microsoft will see this strategy lose in the long term.

Unless they start a console installment plan where people pay monthly and can by new consoles at a subsidized price.

 

[AP90]

What a time to be alive

even console gamers have become PC gamers

So this year is Xbox One slim, Spring 2017 reveals Scorpio with new architecture to get rid of ESRAM and THEN start iterative console cycle when the new architecture is in place. So Scorpio will be a traditional new generation but after that it will be iterative.

The posts above =D.

And I'm curious to see what kind of deal/arrangement MS and oculus have as it may be a way for oculus to gain a more secure foothold in the soon to be increasingly competitive VR market. Maybe we will have the scenario like with the ps3 where you got this awesome bluray technology for cheap in comparison to the players offered at the time.

Curious to see how a PS4K + VR setup costs and performs, versus an Xbox 2 + Oculus, vs PC + VR.

Exciting times in gaming for sure!

 

[mejin]

This is assuming all TP on PS4 and XO will end up on PC< I think there were talking their OWN games when they said both.

Either way ti changes nothing because again msot PS4 games not exclusives, which don't move consoles, are also ON PC.

With iterative consoles you can buy a PC for $450 or so and have a laptop that can likely run games than two iterations of a console. maybe the 3rd might be a bit more powerful.

I say the latter because consoles are expesive to produce,, so I think the difference in iterative hardware will be marginal unless they go for loss leading, but then that's hard to recover from if you are fragmenting your software revenue which alon with some other add-ons is how you get your money back.

It works both ways. Several developers/games are coming from PC to Playstation and not to Xbox/Windows Store. Sony and Nintendo, at least for now, will have exclusive productions (first/third party) coming exclusively for their hardware. You can pretty much go with your pc and you will not lose anything from Microsoft (you will just complain it's not on Steam).

 

[icespide]

But those are the people most likely to upgrade.

And the average Joe's are uniformed and thus more likely to buy a PS4/Xbox 1 right before the new one is out/announced to the mainstream (TV ads etc.) and be pissed they bought a less powerful version.

eh that all comes down to how they market "better" versions. at the end of the day they are all just xboxes or playstations

 

[Pelagic]

Damn I'm going to need a second

Spoiler

maybe even third?

job with all these new consoles coming out. My wallet is empty, yet I want a Neo, NX and this Scorpio thing.

Gaming is expensive these days

 

[Odorono]

I have a feeling this will be a lot more powerful than the PS4k

 

[kiguel182]

It was questionable before upgrades were a thing if consoles are cheaper.
Now it's clear they are more expensive than a pc.
If you upgrade to the 4K you spent $800€ in 3 years.
If you spent $800€ for a PC at the PS4 start, based on the leaked PS4K specs, you would have something more powerful than the PS4K 3 years before it launched.
And if you add the ~$50€ per year for online and the higher game prices the difference gets ridiculous in favor of pc.

They have a cheaper entry point I guess is better said. Altought you don't have to buy the 4K.

 

[MilkyJoe]

The NEO is in the ballpark of Oculus spec (970ti). And if AMD got Polaris flops to be in line with nVidia, then it can be closer to 980ti or Titan X. So that means nothing.

We'll see if Ms use the same pony cpu, though

 

[Beer Monkey]

Was kind of hoping for a 360 on a stick.

 

[Thewonandonly]

Yo I called it. It's just to obvious for Microsoft to partner with oculus because it helps both parties. Oculus will sell way more units on a console and then Microsoft doesn't have to worry about making their own headset. Smart move on them.

 

[Papacheeks]

Damn I'm going to need a second

Spoiler

maybe even third?

job with all these new consoles coming out. My wallet is empty, yet I want a Neo, NX and this Scorpio thing.

Gaming is expensive these days

Yea not what it use to be, when you could buy a console and have it be the console for 5+ years.

The days of getting a value for longevity are over.

 

[qa_engineer]

The interesting part is VR support, and not just any VR, Oculus Rift VR headset. This possibly means the new Xbox is gonna use a Zen CPU.

Zen CPU + Vega HBM2 confirmed. One low price of 1,299 USD!

 

[DeepEnigma]

We'll see if Ms use the same pony cpu, though

If they want to remain cost competitive, it won't be blowing any doors off performance wise. If they are going only for enthusiast, it still may not be cost effective with tech/fab contracting. It will have to be a delicate balance.

Zen CPU + Vega HBM2 confirmed. One low price of 1,299 USD!

Yep, lol.

 

[Bgamer90]

Works for me.

Makes sense for me.

Sadly I doubt they'll be as clear as that. You should ping this to their suggestion box!

I always wanted to work in PR -- some here probably already know this from my countless posts about how bad the "Wii U" name is/was.

If Sony or MS needs any help then I'm definitely available (haha).

 

[Zukkoyaki]

Yea not what it use to be, when you could buy a console and have it be the console for 5+ years.

The days of getting a value for longevity are over.

Your consoles will still play the same games

 

[Kathian]

So new gen next year. Cool.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

So the only specs related info that we have no is that it will contain a better GPU? Surely that's not the only real change.

Odd if they are going to announce a Xbox Slim though, especially when we now know a better on will come next year. Is anyone even gonna bother with that slim?

 

[AmyS]

I have a feeling this will be a lot more powerful than the PS4k

Most likely, yes, of course it will.

But don't think that Sony isn't planning something beyond PS4K, whether it's called PS5 or something else. Doesn't matter. This is the new norm for the console market.

 

[MilkyJoe]

If they want to remain cost competitive, it won't be blowing any doors off performance wise. If they are going only for enthusiast, it still may not be cost effective with tech/fab contracting. It will have to be a delicate balance.

PS4 and xbone were out of date before they released, of course they can be cost effective with new innards.

 

[barneystuta83]

Popcorn.gif

 

[Deleted member 752119]

eh that all comes down to how they market "better" versions. at the end of the day they are all just xboxes or playstations

Well, they kind of half to play up the power bump if it's going to sell.

Few will upgrade if it's not clear that it is an upgrade and few average Joes will buy the more expensive model if it's not clearly more powerful.

 

[DeepEnigma]

PS4 and xbone were out of date before they released, of course they can be cost effective with new innards.

However, we know AMD's roadmap. There is nothing on that roadmap that would blow the NEO away, and remain in the ballpark of pricing, unless MSFT eats a huge chunk, which I am positive, their new direction (CEO/Investors) are not willing to do any longer. Hence what we got with the Xbox One, compared to 360. Same goes for Sony with PS4 vs. PS3.