storybook77
Member
How is Blu-Ray NECESSARY for games??? It might be convenient once they start having to make multiple DVD games but necessary??? Come on.
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Kutaragi seems a bit frustrated with Sony
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firefoxsux
Banned
1. SCEJ pet ps3 lives and dies by a blue diode
2. high ps3 price. sony corp don dare make it aggressive
3. sony properitary right hand spoke to IT retard left hand. no change after many long years.
but he is not a saint. PSX HDD Web box failed. that was a warning. game console = game console. PSP seems to start the dropoff.
Blueray is a heavy iron anchor of PS3 quik success. DVD PS3 don seem bad. ja?
too bad so sad. krazy ken quotes was an inspiration.
2. high ps3 price. sony corp don dare make it aggressive
3. sony properitary right hand spoke to IT retard left hand. no change after many long years.
but he is not a saint. PSX HDD Web box failed. that was a warning. game console = game console. PSP seems to start the dropoff.
Blueray is a heavy iron anchor of PS3 quik success. DVD PS3 don seem bad. ja?
too bad so sad. krazy ken quotes was an inspiration.
Illuminati
Member
The DVD format when the PS2 was being designed out wasn't a very cheap format and proven technology to be working with either.Amir0x said:
Ajax said:
Shitty = premature ejaculation with terrible first players and awful first Blu-Ray movies that give anyone who buys the format a horrible first impression. Further on top, when the format fails because of the format war then it'll be shitty because it'll have no use other than to make the system very expensive and allow people not to swap discs.
Benadryl Hitman said:
This is not analgous. The situations between DVD and current HD movie formats is at a totally different point. For one, there was no vicious format war. For another, DVDs were much further along and there were already relatively cheap players on the market.,
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Ajax said:
VHS vs Betamax anyone?
Okay sure it ain't the same thing but I can't imagine the transition from the unified DVD format to HD-DVD/Blu-Ray is going to go over smoothly.
These format wars should have never happened in the first place IMO. Bad move on both parties invovled.
The Innocent X
Banned
Benadryl Hitman said:
Don`t be silly, it was completely different. 3 years further along in the cycle, the ONLY format defined, and people were desperate to get away from VHS.
Mr. Pointy
Member
Ever notice that Ken looks like puppet Kim Jong-Il from Team America?Yoboman said:
Not to defend Nintendo's stupid decision to make Wii woefully underpowered, but I do think Nintendo has a point in that when two machines are so close as PS3 and 360 are, very few people are going to be able to tell the difference.
And what's so bad about it is that PlayStation 3 is going to cost significantly more (not even counting the fact that Sony may be selling it at a loss, even at $600), yet isn't going to be noticeably different from 360. If PlayStation 3 is going to be successful, it will not be because of the insignificant power difference between it and 360. So why is Sony so hellbent on making sure that it's more powerful?
I guess there are three things that need to be acceptable: release date, price, and performance. Normal, level-headed companies would've downgraded in order to make the price acceptable. That's really the only way to go. Waiting until next year would bring down the price, but that would make the release date unacceptable. So if they want good performance, at an acceptable price, and want it released this year, they should've just cut something from the system. Nobody's going to care about that extra bit of sweat dripping from Tekken characters in the long run.
And what's so bad about it is that PlayStation 3 is going to cost significantly more (not even counting the fact that Sony may be selling it at a loss, even at $600), yet isn't going to be noticeably different from 360. If PlayStation 3 is going to be successful, it will not be because of the insignificant power difference between it and 360. So why is Sony so hellbent on making sure that it's more powerful?
I guess there are three things that need to be acceptable: release date, price, and performance. Normal, level-headed companies would've downgraded in order to make the price acceptable. That's really the only way to go. Waiting until next year would bring down the price, but that would make the release date unacceptable. So if they want good performance, at an acceptable price, and want it released this year, they should've just cut something from the system. Nobody's going to care about that extra bit of sweat dripping from Tekken characters in the long run.
The Innocent X
Banned
Mr. Pointy said:
probably if you asked an asian they would say all western men look like hitler, but it doesn`t make it true either
Amir0x said:
I would be very surprised if PS3 didn't match X360s numbers next year(actually, unless X360 sales suddenly blows up this fall, I expect total PS3 numbers to bypass X360 by late summer next year). The devs won't be going anywhere.
Convincing the consumers that the PS3 is worth the price is Sony's big challenge but it's not like they don't got some great momentum out there in the real world.
Illuminati
Member
No way were DVD players cheap back in 1999. I remember spending a forune on a DVD drive for my PC at a computer show back then. The drive itself was at least $200 USD. And the writable media was expensive as all hell too.Amir0x said:
Benadryl Hitman said:
Your memory is not quite as sharp as you think. EVEN if you think that's the case, Blu-Ray is still far more expensive yet - AND there's the format war, and endless other issues. It's just not remotely analgous. If you want to believe it is, be my guest... but this is at a totally different point in its life.
When PS2 came with DVD, there was zero doubt it was gonna be the next movie format. With PS3, Blu-Ray is super expensive and nobody even knows if it'll win.
Ajax said:
Well, it's the single most expensive component by far so...
Ajax said:And like I said I like Blu-ray and sincerely I'm gladly paying for PS3 since it's value for money unlike one certain console you're buying.
Well, good for you. I 'like' the concept of an HD movie format - i like what it does for games, and I have an HDTV that needs this shit bad. But the format was NOT ready for primetime yet, and Kutaragi (or whoever spearheaded this shit) should have noticed at some point this would be the case and stopped it YEARS ago, before it became the smoldering trainwreck it is today.
The Innocent X
Banned
Benadryl Hitman said:
Whereas at the moment blu-ray Bare drives are about 600-800 dollars, proving the point
Illuminati
Member
That was $200 back in 1999, I don't know how much that would be in 2006 accounting for inflation, etc. Still it was a risk back then compared to using the CD-Rom format, which was a much cheaper alternative.ChrisAllenFiz said:
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Ajax said:
Except Sony was responsible for Betamax.
cheekymunky
Banned
Ajax said:
Which is exactly what is going to happen with BR v. HD-DVD. There is no format war....
buckfutter
Member
Another thing people never really hear is that he never wanted any of the Playstation series to have region encoding. Sony should listen to him more often as far as content goes, and maybe a little less often when it comes to pie-in-the-sky hardware craziness.
monkeymagic
Banned
Amir0x said:
HD movie war is irrelevant.
We're talking about games.
And for games 25/50GB >>>> 7-9GB.
If you think otherwise maybe you should go back to cartridge console gaming.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Ajax said:
Didn't seem to work out too well for them.
But apparently Blu-Ray is going to kill HD-DVD anyway right? No worries.
I don't even know why I brought this up cause history never repeats itself.
Amir, pretty much coming off as the ignorant hyperbolic whinetard that he is... again.
For all of Ken's responsiblities, powers and what not...
he's simply not in control of everything playstation; he isn't a god that shits out blue laser diodes, and he isn't omniscient; able to predict the eventuating of manufacturing worst cases years ahead of schedule.
When plans are made in 2003 to include BD into the next gen PS3; how the hell does the guy see manufacturing problems 3 years out?
Indeed, even at E3, it was more than likely, people were predicting the diodes would still be on track... after all, it's why they made the estimates in the first place!
Only at this point, after months of manufacturing difficulty on the diodes; a worst case scenario for the Sony circa E32005, even E32006, can things be said to be really screwed.
But even if it is a pretty disastrous error for Sony launch... given the long term nature of this product, how does it REALLY matter, a weaker launch, yes, but unless that means catastrophic lack of support... in 3 or so years when people start latching onto the idea of BD in a big way the launch shortage issue would be a blip in the history of things? Would it have been right for them to sacrifice the long term tech/product gain for short term launch smoothness?
If you were able to clearly see history diverge in 2 paths; 1 where Sony decides to stick with BD and the other where they decide to change to DVD... what do you think you'll be saying about each path in 5 years time?
I'm not saying that it doesn't suck (it especially sucks for me, having preordered in australia, much much moreso than a hyperbolic whinetard that doesn't plan on buying until the price is right); but if the people in charge were as simple minded and short sighted as some of you seem to be... then the playstation brand itself might not even have come about.
For all of Ken's responsiblities, powers and what not...
he's simply not in control of everything playstation; he isn't a god that shits out blue laser diodes, and he isn't omniscient; able to predict the eventuating of manufacturing worst cases years ahead of schedule.
When plans are made in 2003 to include BD into the next gen PS3; how the hell does the guy see manufacturing problems 3 years out?
Indeed, even at E3, it was more than likely, people were predicting the diodes would still be on track... after all, it's why they made the estimates in the first place!
Only at this point, after months of manufacturing difficulty on the diodes; a worst case scenario for the Sony circa E32005, even E32006, can things be said to be really screwed.
But even if it is a pretty disastrous error for Sony launch... given the long term nature of this product, how does it REALLY matter, a weaker launch, yes, but unless that means catastrophic lack of support... in 3 or so years when people start latching onto the idea of BD in a big way the launch shortage issue would be a blip in the history of things? Would it have been right for them to sacrifice the long term tech/product gain for short term launch smoothness?
If you were able to clearly see history diverge in 2 paths; 1 where Sony decides to stick with BD and the other where they decide to change to DVD... what do you think you'll be saying about each path in 5 years time?
I'm not saying that it doesn't suck (it especially sucks for me, having preordered in australia, much much moreso than a hyperbolic whinetard that doesn't plan on buying until the price is right); but if the people in charge were as simple minded and short sighted as some of you seem to be... then the playstation brand itself might not even have come about.
monkeymagic said:
oh yeah it's irrelevant. it's SO irrelevant it's going to make the PS3 $600 dollars, which then results it taking WAY longer for the system to reach a relevant mass market point, which then results in less consumers buying over time, which then causes developers to give less exclusives/compelling PS3 support.
Guess what that is about? Games.
Zaptruder said:
That's not an argument. keep your insults to yourself. If you can't, you don't participate. PERIOD.
Illuminati
Member
I'm not trying to say that $200 = $600 by today's standards. What I am trying to say is Sony could have used a for the PS1 a much cheaper and well proven format in the CD-ROM, but instead they decided to use the more costly DVD format with more potential. This is similar to the situation at the present with the decision to use the Blu-Ray format over the DVD.Amir0x said:
Beer Monkey
Member
Ken is dumb and thinks that this stuff will have an impact. He needs to talk to monkey magic and the GAF sbots, they'll straighten him out.
Benadryl Hitman said:
But it's not analgous, that's what we're trying to explain!
There was no vicious format war for DVD.
The component was much cheaper.
Sony knew, DVDs were going to be 100% relevant in both the movie market AND the games format for decades or more.
It could honestly hardly be called a risk, though they should be commended. There's no remote comparrison to the position Blu-Ray is currently in, which is bad.
Amir0x said:
My apologies, but I'm sick as hell of seeing these whiney arguments attacking the BD and attributing it solely to Ken, like he knew exactly what would happen!
I'm even more annoyed that people never seem to think about the long term ramifications and the history of the decision, as if the decision to keep it or not keep it is made only in the context of the problems that occur at launch.
teruterubozu
Member
Benadryl Hitman said:
Wha? Yeah and gas was 50 cents a gallon. :lol
TobitheCat
Banned
Kutaragi needs to blame himself. Wasn't he the one with the "Xbox 1.5" comments and the bullshit E3 2005 powerpoint presentations? The battery thing is unfortunate and it happens, but any missteps on the PS3 can simply be laid on Kutaragi. They were in control of public perception and they blew it by overpromising and under delivering.
Sony knew full well it would not launch in Spring 2006. Sony know full well that those stuff portrayed as "in-game" footage were in fact CG meant to deceive the public (Jack Tretton is even on tape lying about Killzone). Sony knew full well that it has NO INTENTIONS of making an Xbox Live competitor since they've been promising the same thing since summer of 2000. Sony knew full well that it had no intentions of doing a world-wide launch. Kutaragi was at the helm of Sony's catalogue of lies and deception.
Why not take the Nintendo approach and just be quiet and handle your business. I'm of the feeling that:
1. If Sony just went with DVD and went with a real next gen GPU instead and launched last year. Xbox would be dead. Microsoft would have packed up and left. It would have been Dreamcast all over again.
2. If Sony just focused on PS2 and PSP at E3 2005 with only a brief mention of PS3, all would have been well. But they showed vaporware specs, a vaporware console with vaporware controller and vaporware games.
I freakin' love the PS brand and I think the industry is always better with Sony on top (IMHO), but this is rediculous. I feel as if I've been lied to for over a year just to keep me from buying a competitor's product.
Sony knew full well it would not launch in Spring 2006. Sony know full well that those stuff portrayed as "in-game" footage were in fact CG meant to deceive the public (Jack Tretton is even on tape lying about Killzone). Sony knew full well that it has NO INTENTIONS of making an Xbox Live competitor since they've been promising the same thing since summer of 2000. Sony knew full well that it had no intentions of doing a world-wide launch. Kutaragi was at the helm of Sony's catalogue of lies and deception.
Why not take the Nintendo approach and just be quiet and handle your business. I'm of the feeling that:
1. If Sony just went with DVD and went with a real next gen GPU instead and launched last year. Xbox would be dead. Microsoft would have packed up and left. It would have been Dreamcast all over again.
2. If Sony just focused on PS2 and PSP at E3 2005 with only a brief mention of PS3, all would have been well. But they showed vaporware specs, a vaporware console with vaporware controller and vaporware games.
I freakin' love the PS brand and I think the industry is always better with Sony on top (IMHO), but this is rediculous. I feel as if I've been lied to for over a year just to keep me from buying a competitor's product.
Zaptruder said:
WHINEY is just bitching for bitching sake. I clearly have all my positions well thought out and voiced. If you dislike them, you are free to debate the points as anyone else is doing.
And, you'll note, I certainly leave the door open for someone OTHER than Ken to be blamed - I just said that if it's not Ken, then whoever did it should be fired. All this ties into the "playstation brands" diminished/declining importance, as discussed in the article.
Ajax said:
So, should they use it just to say they followed their 'history'? That's silly. They should modify their strategy based on what is currently feasible. They might have one point thought Blu-Ray was feasible, I'll give them that... but at least by the end of 2005, they should have realized that the expense involved and various other factors should have forced them to change to DVD. Any negative press they would have received over that would have been a far fall short of what happened post E3.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Everyone in Europe and a few people besides Ajax are frustrated with Sony, I think.
If they get it together, I'm sure it'll pass, but yeah - this isn't unexpected.
:kencry
If they get it together, I'm sure it'll pass, but yeah - this isn't unexpected.
:kencry
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Sorry I was only answering the annnnnnnndddddddddd????Ajax said:
I'm no good at catching stealth edits.
Anyway I'd rather see one unified format and so far all I'm seeing is a handful of studios backing their own format. If things don't change I'd have to actually buy two players to see movies from every studio(Which isn't happening because Blu-ray will dominate...right?).
But you're right I have an agenda. I wish you'd tell me what it is because I can't seem to figure it out on my own.
EDIT: okay looking at the lists again. Sony/MGM/Lionsgate is primarily backing Blu-Ray while Universal is sided with HD-DVD. Luckily Warner Bros. loves everybody and is supporting both. Okay yep wildly OT now I apologize.
teruterubozu
Member
Ajax said:
CDs were far from new when the PlayStation was released.
cheekymunky
Banned
Amir0x said:
You are right in that BR cannot even be compared to DVD but you are wrong about BR being in a bad position.....unless you mean it delays the PS3 launch and the price. BR is in a good position versus HDDVD and everyone knows it.
The Innocent X
Banned
It was known back when the PS3 was announced that Blu-Ray was behind HD-DVD in terms of devlopment, and that it wasn`t yet ready for mass market. Therefore the decision to use it was a risk. The decision made was based on what was best for Sony as a whole, not the playstation brand, and it looks like the playstation is suffering for it. Of course, the race is still long, but they`ll take a beating for the first year in manufacturing.
radioheadrule83 said:Everyone in Europe and a few people besides Ajax are frustrated with Sony, I think.
If they get it together, I'm sure it'll pass, but yeah - this isn't unexpected.
:kencry
Well I guess if everyone is frustrated noone will buy it in March. Wanna bet on that? And btw you missed my first reactions.
Arde0 said:
BR is in a bad position, and HDDVD is a bad position. I didn't mean to say it was alone there. It's in a bad position because it's in this vicious HD format war. It's also in a bad position because as I mentioned, they've come off the starting gate with terrible everything - players, movies, etc.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
The Bluray-HD-DVD war is over? I must have missed the "Victory!" headline in my paper.Ajax said:
plagiarize
Banned
bluray isn't the dominant format now. it probably will be once the ps3 comes out, but hd-dvd players and discs have been selling slightly better, surprising everyone because most people were predicting the opposite.Ajax said:
don't forget this time that there's a 'they both fail' option. hd-dvd and blu-ray are in many ways more analagous to laserdisc than dvd. it's a high end av enthusiasts market. most people watching DVDs on their HDTVs are NOT calling out for something better.
but anyways... blu ray is certainly to blame for all these teething troubles (remember it was reportedly the reason japan don't already have PS3s). once we have hindsight we can say 'despite early teething troubles caused by blu ray' or 'ps3 could never get over the initial stumble caused by blu ray' but right now in september 2006 it's not done anything good for the playstation 3 yet.
i get the long term look at the console, and the argument that it long needs a higher capacity format, but they totally predicted wrong about whether or not Blu Ray would be ready.
if the 360 didn't exist, we'd be getting a ps3 NEXT christmas for a cheaper price with a more matured blu ray drive.
it is too soon for Blu Ray and while Blu Ray may pay off in the long term, so far the gamble hasn't been a good one.
i don't need a crystal ball to see that the PS3 has been delayed in two major markets and is shipping with inadequate supply thanks to Blu Ray. that's already happened. heaven forbid the drives start failing again.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
This is the exact reason I couldn't give a shit about sony and will never buy any of their hardware ever again.
I looked at SD cards the other day, something like 18 euro for 1GB whereas sony was about 80 freaking Euros for the same size. IDIOTS.
It's like they enjoy losing format wars, they know they suck at them, stop trying.
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