firefoxsux
Banned
monkeymagic said:
downgrade already a average gpu from 10% of potential for next 6-7 years to put psu internal?
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Kutaragi seems a bit frustrated with Sony
- Thread starter hadareud
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downgrade already a average gpu from 10% of potential for next 6-7 years to put psu internal?
The Innocent X
Banned
Arde0 said:
Blu-Ray is on life support waiting for PS3. Without it, Blu-ray would be the outsider. With it, they are the favourites
Amir0x said:
Expounding on what I said; consider the reaction if things had gone right; if the manufacturing was on target, with no component supply problems. How about we take it one step further and say it was going so well, they managed to cut costs significantly and drop the PS3 some $50.
Neither of those elements can really be directly attributable to the Sony we talk about when concerning gaming; they're not directly involved with manufacturing.
But the decisions about the PS3 made by KK/SCEI hasn't changed, and yet, undoubtedly, we simply wouldn't see or hear nearly as many people whining about BD as we currently are.
Shit happens; things go wrong - especially on a smaller scale. The erroneous AND hyperbolic attribution of error is something I particularly detest.
I mean... look at the flipside; imagine the scenario that would occur if Sony/KK decided to swap out the BD for a DVD drive in light of the diode shortage.
Not only would GAF implode... no one is going to put a positive spin on the issue, even if the alternative is a shortage of BD equipped PS3s at launch.
Illuminati
Member
Even if the blu-ray format fails as the nextgen movie format, it still will be useful for Sony's consoles. The success of Blu-Ray as a movie format will have little impact on the cost of the technology and manufacturing process that makes Blu-Ray. The price of Blu-Ray will go down over time regardless.Amir0x said:
Is blu-ray in that much trouble? I don't have any clue what sales of blu-ray movies and hardware vs. HD-DVD moves and hardware is at this point.
PepsimanVsJoe said:Sorry I was only answering the annnnnnnndddddddddd????
I'm no good at catching stealth edits.
Anyway I'd rather see one unified format and so far all I'm seeing is a handful of studios backing their own format. If things don't change I'd have to actually buy two players to see movies from every studio(Which isn't happening because Blu-ray will dominate...right?).
But you're right I have an agenda. I wish you'd tell me what it is because I can't seem to figure it out on my own.
5 out of 6 studios back Blu-ray. Almost every electronics company supports Blu-ray. You're trying to make it look worse than it is. But it's pretty clear what's going on. Like you said: VHS vs Betamax.
teruterubozu
Member
The real issue is that Sony is fighting the format war at the gamer's expense.
That's what doesn't make sense to most people.
That's what doesn't make sense to most people.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
What I find interesting is that a few months ago, if you posted on this board that Bluray was a stupid decision for PS3, it was considered more of a troll comment. Now, it seems, that saying Bluray is DOOMED is ok. And yet, nothing has really changed.
cheekymunky
Banned
Amir0x said:
Yeah they are in a bad position coming out of the starting gate, for NOW. But in March of next year, when there are 6 million BR players (if all the PS3s sell, and they will) in homes they will not be in such a bad position.
FirstInHell
Banned
PepsimanVsJoe said:
I love you.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Ajax said:
You've obviously put more work into this than I have(I just looked on wikipedia). So I'll hand you the win. Not exactly sure what you won but hey it has to be good right?
FirstInHell said:
::bows::
Zaptruder said:
We can blame whoever we want but the end result is Kutaragi is head of game division, and he has to take responsibility for what happens. That's life.
I cannot imagine how they didn't realize this would have gone bad by late 2005 - I read articles at the time predicting these very things, and it's impossible for me to believe Sony didn't have an even closer insider eye into how the format was gonna pan out in 2006.
But, in the end, the shit did go wrong... and this is where we are. If this is 'hyperbole', then there needs to be a new word for actual exaggeration - because the reality is, not much has gone good for Sony since the day they held their E3 conference.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
gofreak said:
I expect a lock soon. And I'll take the blame for part of this. If I'm in the wrong I'll gladly take a week off to cool my jets.
Amir0x said:
I'll admit Blu-ray has the support. Thing is though that HD-DVD and Blu-ray are also competing with DVD. Until prices drop on players I don't see the mass-market buying into it. PS3 is supposed to change that but....ah who am I kidding it will...Sony wins again.
/thread.
The Innocent X
Banned
gofreak said:
Not really, this thread is remarkably empty of the usual trolling. Some good debate.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
One more point on the relevance of Betamax versus VHS. Those of us that are old enought to remember this and are now in a financial position to buy a BD or HD-DVD player cannot rinse the bad taste that Betamax left out of our heads. Sure, local news stations still use Betamax and it was blah blah blah, but VHS won the war hands down, and Sony's record on releasing a media format that emerges as a market leader is very poor. BD is superior to HD-DVD. But Betamax was superior to VHS. And consumers typically buy cheaper when the difference between the two is indistinguishable in the one area it will be used the most - MOVIES.
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
i hope ps3 fails just so that blueray dies with it. i dont want a new format, go away, and stop using your console as a trojan
Sweedishrodeo
the smegma spreader
i think "don ken" should just be his neo gaf name from now on
and **** you kutaragi this is you ****ing fault. talk about reaping what you sew.
and **** you kutaragi this is you ****ing fault. talk about reaping what you sew.
plagiarize
Banned
since i got bottom fed...
it's not about blu ray vs hd dvd it's about both vs DVD. remember laserdisc? that didn't have any competition and it failed.
as long as blu ray and hd dvds are more expensive without more *content* they will not over take DVD sales. dvd is the one they have to beat. trying to beat each other just makes that all the less likely.
but yeah, the ps3 will have a nice large drive, but it's certainly hurt the ps3 up to this point. they banked on technology that wasn't ready and have had to delay in two major markets. if blu ray had been a year further on, Wii would have a lot of catching up to do in Japan, and america and europe would be getting plenty of PS3s this christmas.
it's not about blu ray vs hd dvd it's about both vs DVD. remember laserdisc? that didn't have any competition and it failed.
as long as blu ray and hd dvds are more expensive without more *content* they will not over take DVD sales. dvd is the one they have to beat. trying to beat each other just makes that all the less likely.
but yeah, the ps3 will have a nice large drive, but it's certainly hurt the ps3 up to this point. they banked on technology that wasn't ready and have had to delay in two major markets. if blu ray had been a year further on, Wii would have a lot of catching up to do in Japan, and america and europe would be getting plenty of PS3s this christmas.
I don't see how this is all KK's problem. Sony's dominance in the hardware sector has been on the decline for a decade now. KK's division is the only consistent breadwinner there. The only hardware devices since the Walkman that posted reliable sales. IIRC, it's also KK who kept pushing heavily for convergence, only to be met with resistance at each turn. Wasn't he all in favor of open standards and combining the gaming and media side of things? He's not the reason Sony is in the poor house. Hell, he's the reason they haven't mailed it in already. All IMO. I thought it was odd that he was passed over for Stringer, and I can only imagine that the recent missteps have him wondering why he stayed on board. He's gonna end up being the fall guy for any problems with SCE. PEACE.
The Innocent X
Banned
Amir0x said:
Blu-ray will at least fight its way to a stalemate, but will probably be the dominant format. Maybe not massively overwhelming though.
Amir0x said:
I think Blu-ray has the chance to take off on the DVD scale in about five years from now.
Before that it will sell steadily increasing for each year with people investing in HDTVs, PS3s (and god forbid, standalone players).
I personally will be enjoying the fruits that HD movie playback gives and not least the advantages Blu-ray gives games.
Amir0x said:
See, that's the funny thing about hindsight; it seems so damn obvious once it's happened.
Would there be much validity to those articles if the opposite had been true? If there had been smooth launches with BD.
Would articles exhorting BDs advantages be similarly seen as accurate prophecy?
But more importantly, what can we say about the future? We can only speculate at this point; despite the difficulties that BD has faced thus far, it is still a leap to say that it is doomed completely. Indeed, at this point in time, BD still has a very good chance to succeed, in spite of launch difficulties.
So in 5 years from now, if BD turns out to be very popular, and well recieved... will you be saying, it's fortuitous, it's the prowess of KK to stay with BD, despite these early difficulties?
cheekymunky
Banned
Amir0x said:
Compared to what? HDDVD?...it already has. There is just no way (unless the PS3 bombs...not gonna happen) that HDDVD can beat BR in the marketplace. Now another format coming along to beat them both is a distinct possibility.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Ajax said:
Sorry but I work for MS.
That was a joke btw..seriously
cheekymunky
Banned
DenogginizerOS said:
CD and DVD say hi.
loosus said:
Yes, that would have gone over incredibly well, especially considering how people kept posting about 'TEH LIESTATION 3!!!!11!!one' because ports on the back of the prototype were removed for the production model. Or how many people keep insisting that the system is 'Six! Hundred! Dollars!' when they have no need for HDMI out (the lack of an HDMI port certainly isn't stopping people from buying X360's or Wiis, is it?) and would be served perfectly well by the less-expensive model that Sony... wait for it... cut something from in order to make more affordable without compromising its ability to play games.
plagiarize
Banned
one last time.
they don't need to beat each other, they need to beat DVD and that is far from a given.
if hd-dvd didn't exist, blu ray would STILL have an uphill struggle to topple DVD.
they don't need to beat each other, they need to beat DVD and that is far from a given.
if hd-dvd didn't exist, blu ray would STILL have an uphill struggle to topple DVD.
Wollan said:
Well, I think an HD movie format would have been more viable in 5 years certainly. I think the key problem here is timing, not that it's the wrong direction to head in. It's just that it was not the right time.
Zaptruder said:
Of course, there's room for the format to succeed, and everything to go rosey from here on out, and PS3 to sell 80,000,000 units and all bang and bash. And if that happens, you're absolutely right, I'd be like 'well... at least it worked out in the end. Sagely Kutaragi ftw.' But there's gonna be a lot of convincing to be done, and I doubt anyone honestly has the confidence in Sony anymore that is required for this thing to ultimately be a success.
We'll see, time will tell.
Arde0 said:
I don't agree with the assertion that it already won, I'm sorry.
Stoney Mason
Banned
Zaptruder said:
Yeah they're really kicking ass and takes names with all these smart decisions.....:lol
The Innocent X
Banned
Arde0 said:
Seriously, check your facts. At the moment HD-DVD is outselling Blu-Ray in players and movies. Videophiles are turning away from Blu-Ray. This may change with PS3.
cheekymunky
Banned
Amir0x said:
Well we will all see next year...maybe I will eat crow, but I dont think so. I am only stating that it has won versus BR btw. It DOES have an uphill battle against the DVD format...no question.
Random access aside, how did you feel about VHS after DVD came out, and completely clowned VHS in picture quality? After a while, renting VHS copies of a movie became unbearable. I'm sure when HD sets become the norm in the next decade that watching movies in SD will become equally unbearable. And unlike HD-DVD, BD is plenty future-proof. But like any new media format, wait a year or two to start buying media en masse, b/c they'll need time to get efficient quality. PEACE.MrSardonic said:
cheekymunky
Banned
ChrisAllenFiz said:
I mean it has won in the sense that after PS3 releases it will not matter how many HDDVD players have been sold, it will be eclipsed by the influx of BR players via the PS3. And do you have a link for how Videophiles are turning away from BR? I read AVS all the time and it would be the first I have heard of a mass exodus.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Arde0 said:
No single company "owns" DVD. The official specification was developed by a consortium of ten companies: Hitachi, JVC, Matsushita, Mitsubishi, Philips, Pioneer, Sony, Thomson, Time Warner, and Toshiba. Representatives from many other companies also contributed in various working groups.
Arde0 said:
Why would you say that?
There was a good reason for a format jump... HD.
Given how much time it takes to change video standards... that the technology has to mature, that the market has adopt it... it's safe to say it's a format that won't be changing for a good while. Probably at least 2 decades.
Why not stick with DVD? well, the main issue would be the hundreds of millions of DVD players that... while able to read the information on a DVD, will not be able to process a HD stream.
So you'd have to release a bunch of new players with updated firmware and hardware... but if you're going to do that, why not just go with a whole new disc standard in order to maximize the use of the format, as well as reducing the needs to upgrade the format in later years (like VHS to DVD).
After BDs or HDDVD... what is there? 200GB? But why? Why would the people in the money bother supporting a new format, when there's no need; even the longest of their movies will fit on a DL BD (which will become very common place in a couple years) at full specs? Why would they do it, when format transition is so costly, and so much money has already been spent? They wouldn't.
My Arms Your Hearse
Banned
There is no doubt that, via PS3, there will be more BR players sold than HD-DVD players.
The question is, will they actually be buying movies for it?
The question is, will they actually be buying movies for it?
cheekymunky
Banned
DenogginizerOS said:
jesus.....and Sony completely owns BR?
Zaptruder said:
Because something else could always come along, thats all. An HD formate is needed, I agree.
The Innocent X
Banned
Arde0 said:
If you read AVS all the time you would have to be blind to not see people questioning blu-ray. HD-DVD is half the price and has better PQ. Blu-Ray is catching up in PQ. Now HD-DVD has lossless audio, and a second gen cheaper HD-DVD player is expected in october. Meanwhile the only blu-ray player has so many returns it has a restocking fee, and other players are being delayed all over the place.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Zaptruder said:
Earmarked for future Playstation 5 vs Xbox1080 discussion.
"200GB is required to get the most out of games these days."
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Arde0 said:
They invented it. James Russell invented CD in 1965, by the way.
PS3 will sell more players by next March than all HD-DVD player sales combined. I'm almost sure of this. HD-DVD is outselling BD right now, but peanuts outselling peanuts means nothing when one system alone will tilt the userbase scale so disproportionally in BD's favor. PS3 would have to be a bigger bomb than the DC...like a 3D0-level bomb for it not to decide the HD war.ChrisAllenFiz said:
It's like if there was a MP3 vs. OGG war, and the hardware made a difference, iPod is the Playstation of the mobile music world. It's immense success means that mp3s are gonna be the preferred format of choice. There's just nothing else that'll drive that userbase. HD-DVD lost the war when the 360 came with a DVD drive. End of story. I don't even know why this continues to be debated. Even 10% of a shitty set of sales (50M units) would still give BD 5M units just from the PS3 in 5 years. That's assuming only 10% of the userbase actively buys movies, which is probably low-balling. The HD movie war is a non-factor. The only question is if BD can even dream of competing with DVD. That's the battle I see them losing handily. PEACE.
firefoxsux
Banned
Ajax said:
understand b4 damage control.
wise ken told me so b4.
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