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[NeoUltima]

Its sold as a seperate game, isnt it?

No. Its included on the same disc.

 

[soldat7]

RIF

You really think the vast majority of MGS threads are about the gameplay and NOT story? OK then...

And what is RIF?

The method of story telling needs to work with the actual story being told. Imagine what it would like if you wrote out a summary of Portal's story, and then wrote out a summary of an MGS game's story. Any one MGS, not even the entire series. Compare those documents. Look at how much information Portal gives the player and how much the MGS game gives. It wouldn't be possible to tell MGS's story using Portal's techniques. Apples and oranges.

This point will be lost on far too many people.

 

[Shins]

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT

Do you honestly mean that there are 2 90 minute cut-scenes in this game!??!?!?!?!?!?!

YES POSSIBLY!!!!111111!!!!!!!!!!!1!~1111111oirfdjdsjfdsalkjfD;!!!11!1!!!11111!!!!!!!!!1

 

[Dever]

Its sold as a seperate game, isnt it?

No, it's not. MGO is the multiplayer component of MGS4, just like Halo 3 and GTA IV have their own.

 

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Bah, nevermind.

 

[Deepblue]

No, it's not. MGO is the multiplayer component of MGS4, just like Halo 3 and GTA IV have their own.

Except from what I understand what's included amounts to a demo essentially. I really doubt it will be as fully fleshed out as Halo 3 and GTAIV.

 

[BLaZiN PRopHeT]

so wait is there 1 90 min cut scene or 2?

 

[Red Blaster]

To be fair, the whole MGO being seperate from MGS4 debacle was a largely a gaffe by Konami themselves. They should've associated them together from day one.

 

[soldat7]

It doesn't matter if this 90 minute cutscene business is true. The fact that we're even acknowledging it as possible is sad and really says something about the series.

Was it bad for The Return of the King being 4+ hours long and having multiple endings?

 

[Farnack]

Except from what I understand what's included amounts to a demo essentially. I really doubt it will be as fully fleshed out as Halo 3 and GTAIV.

You missed the open beta.

 

[watership]

Damn this thread. I think the MGS trilogy has the best storytelling in a game ever and the characters and their motives are always so interesting. To each his own, I guess.

Heh, It certainly has the most storytelling. Doesn't mean its the best.

 

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Were you ticked at The Return of the King for being 4+ hours long and having multiple endings?

Dude, this is a game. A gaaaaame.

 

[NeoUltima]

No, it's not. MGO is the multiplayer component of MGS4, just like Halo 3 and GTA IV have their own.

Exactly...I can't believe nobody is making a big deal out of this...Instead they are focusing on stupid specifics of an NDA. Odd NDAs have been around forever...no big deal there. But how often is the multiplayer component of a game completely ignored in reviews?

Except from what I understand what's included amounts to a demo essentially. I really doubt it will be as fully fleshed out as Halo 3 and GTAIV.

Probably not as much as Halo, true. But 5 maps, multiple game modes, and over 70 weapons constitutes much, much more than a demo.

 

[Pureauthor]

You really think the vast majority of MGS threads are about the gameplay and NOT story? OK then...

And what is RIF?

You know what? Nevermind.

Were you ticked at The Return of the King for being 4+ hours long and having multiple endings?

My bladder certainly was. That aside, that's a movie. MGS4 is a videogame. You know, the entertainment media whose primary selling point is interactivity.

Cutscenes =/= interactivity

 

[Ynos Yrros]

MGS2's ending was an hour long? What? You mean the events SURROUNDING the ending?

Funny thing is that the Edge reviewer states that the ending is 2 hours long and he lost it halfway through.

Maybe that's why he considers some cut scenes to be 90 minutes, because it's a cut scenes fragmented by bursts of gameplay.

Anyway, after reading the review I see where he is coming from, according to him the story is what makes MGS, and he didn't find it to be what he expected it to be, it also is too complicated, so people who aren't fans and play it won't get the full experience.

It's his opinion, and I can stand behind that, his review actually makes sense, even though it isn't a good interview, it's short and doesn't really describe anything in depth. Drebin didn't get a mention.

Exactly...I can't believe nobody is making a big deal out of this...Instead they are focusing on stupid specifics of an NDA. Odd NDAs have been around forever...no big deal there. But how often is the multiplayer component of a game completely ignored in reviews?

I believe that Konami wanted MGO to be review separately, even if not that, the press servers weren't up for the time of reviews, which I find completely believable given the beta delay.


I don't see why we are discussing this review in a negative light anymore, it's extremely positive.

 

[Deepblue]

Exactly...I can't believe nobody is making a big deal out of this...Instead they are focusing on stupid specifics of an NDA. Odd NDAs have been around forever...no big deal there. But how often is the multiplayer component of a game completely ignored in reviews?

Probably not as much as Halo, true. But 5 maps, multiple game modes, and over 70 weapons constitutes much, much more than a demo.

Regardless, the fact is that you are not getting the whole package with MGS4.

 

[WickedLaharl]

You missed the open beta.

pretty sure that mgs4 only comes with 5 maps for mgo and the rest will be sold as dlc down the road.

And what is RIF?

the first one on that list

 

[soldat7]

Dude, this is a game. A gaaaaame.

So what? It's an entertainment experience. If you're invested in the series, in the characters and the plot, then you won't care. If not then, well this is the fourth game in the series so it's not like it should surprise you and you weren't going to buy it anyways.

When I play a game I don't always have to be shooting something or pushing a button. This is why many games fail to tell a compelling story. The whole "let's rush through the story and the cutscenes to get the player back in the game" has really held video games back.

You know what? Nevermind.



My bladder certainly was. That aside, that's a movie. MGS4 is a videogame. You know, the entertainment media whose primary selling point is interactivity.

Cutscenes =/= interactivity

See post above. Why type a mysterious acronym, RIF, and then not explain it? That's an illogical thing to do in a discussion.

 

[KTallguy]

Except from what I understand what's included amounts to a demo essentially. I really doubt it will be as fully fleshed out as Halo 3 and GTAIV.

And you understand wrong.
It has maps and gameplay modes just like the games you mentioned in the same sentence.

With Gears, you had to pay to download extra maps, right? So I guess that means that you didn't get the whole package there, either.

In fact, all DLC for MP games now means that you aren't getting the full package when you buy the game, by that logic.

So Starcraft MP wasn't the full package, that expansion pack proved it.

 

[Ynos Yrros]

And you understand wrong.
It has maps and gameplay modes just like the games you mentioned in the same sentence.

Only better.

 

[Dever]

Cutscenes =/= interactivity

The cutscenes will still be interactive. You can trigger different points of view, flashbacks and if I've understood correctly, (Minor MGS4 spoiler, I guess)

Spoiler

you get to freely control the MK-II around in first person in some cutscenes.

 

[fortified_concept]

pretty sure that mgs4 only comes with 5 maps for mgo and the rest will be sold as dlc down the road.

...which is what happens with all multiplayer games.

 

[NeoUltima]

To be fair, the whole MGO being seperate from MGS4 debacle was a largely a gaffe by Konami themselves. They should've associated them together from day one.

But at the end of the day, they are still in the same packages. Reviews are give a gauge of what to purchase and what not to. These reviews aren't mentioning a large part of the product.

The back of the game case mentions MGO.

None of these reviews can be considered accurate IMO, unless the reviewers can honestly say MGO adds nothing to the experience.

 

[BobFromPikeCreek]

So what? It's an entertainment experience. If you're invested in the series, in the characters and the plot, then you won't care. If not then, well this is the fourth game in the series so it's not like it should surprise you and you weren't going to buy it anyways.

When I play a game I don't always have to be shooting something or pushing a button. This is why many games fail to tell a compelling story. The whole "let's rush through the story and the cutscenes to get the player back in the game" has really held video games back.

So many things I want to say to this, but I'd never get away with it without getting banned, so forget it.

 

[soldat7]

So many things I want to say to this, but I'd never get away with it without getting banned, so forget it.

I find your lack of argument compelling and the lack of good storytelling in games frightening.

 

[Mr. Durden]

I have the mag, any requests? Will post cover art and next issue page in a moment :3

Force Unleashed info please?

 

[NeoUltima]

Regardless, the fact is that you are not getting the whole package with MGS4.

???
Then I guess you aren't getting the whole package with Halo 3 then either since the DLC is not included on the disc? The only way to get MGO is through buying MGS4. And future DLC will be bought on the store in the future. It's no different than any other game's multiplayer component.

 

[Deepblue]

...which is what happens with all multiplayer games.

???
Then I guess you aren't getting the whole package with Halo 3 then either since the DLC is not included on the disc? The only way to get MGO is through buying MGS4. And future DLC will be bought on the store in the future. It's no different than any other game's multiplayer component.

Except most multiplayer games come with at least twice that many maps. Furthermore, we're talking about DLC before the game is released? That's bullshit. All I'm saying is that the way Konami was talking about MGO in relation to MGS4 really makes them seem to be separate games, so it's perfectly understandable that reviewers would review them separately.

 

[puebla]

jesus, 90 minute cut-scenes and they're supposed to be on the same level of retardedness as MGS2's? ugh.

no doubt the gameplay will be stellar but i don't even think i play games for more than 90 minutes a day anymore.

 

[soldat7]

Except most multiplayer games come with at least twice that many maps.

TF2?

 

[Narag]

Except most multiplayer games come with at least twice that many maps.

TF2?

RIF

Come on, man.

 

[Farnack]

My bladder certainly was. That aside, that's a movie. MGS4 is a videogame. You know, the entertainment media whose primary selling point is interactivity.

Cutscenes =/= interactivity

I suppose you wish to set up a load of C4 during "interactive cutscenes" and the blow up stuff when you're suppose to be listening to other character's talk, and that will really screws with Kojima's storytelling.

Eh, I'd rather cut off the player's stupidity and control everything to deliver the story the way it should be.

 

[NeoUltima]

Except most multiplayer games come with at least twice that many maps.

So are you saying since MGO only comes with 5 [robust] maps it deserves no mention in reviews?

Furthermore, we're talking about DLC before the game is released? That's bullshit.

No we're not.

 

[Pureauthor]

So what? It's an entertainment experience. If you're invested in the series, in the characters and the plot, then you won't care. If not then, well this is the fourth game in the series so it's not like it should surprise you and you weren't going to buy it anyways.

In which case I might as well watch Lord of the Rings instead, since it's got better story, better acting, better... well, just about everything not related to interactivity.

When I play a game I don't always have to be shooting something or pushing a button. This is why many games fail to tell a compelling story. The whole "let's rush through the story and the cutscenes to get the player back in the game" has really held video games back.

The most popular videogames ever have, for all practical purposes, 0 story in them.

Even if videogames can tell a compelling story via cutscenes, why would I want this story to be in a videogame instead of a book or a movie, since it has almost universally been executed more competently in those two fields instead of videogames, a medium that, and I repeat, is sold on the basis of interactivity.

 

[KTallguy]

TF2?

Bububu Halo is better!

MOAR MAPS!

Counterstrike has like ... 2 - 3 maps that people play :lol

Even if videogames can tell a compelling story via cutscenes, why would I want this story to be in a videogame instead of a book or a movie, since it has almost universally been executed more competently in those two fields instead of videogames, a medium that, and I repeat, is sold on the basis of interactivity.

So videogames can't have story now?
Why not just accept that MGS does things in its own way? Why do we have to say "GAMES MUST BE THIS OR ELSE" ?

Edit: And no one can make the argument that MGS doesn't have interactivity. I've spent a ton of time messing with the AI in MGS2 and 3, fun stuff :lol

 

[Deepblue]

So are you saying since MGO only comes with 5 [robust] maps it deserves no mention in reviews?

I'm sure reviewers would have mentioned it had Konami not made it clear what was included was "merely" a starter-pack. The problem is really how Konami sold MGO, rather than what MGO is.

 

[Red Blaster]

Except most multiplayer games come with at least twice that many maps.

Team Fortress 2, considered one of the best multiplayer games of last year, launched with only 5 maps.

You're about as transparent as a plastic bag filled with shit.

 

[BobFromPikeCreek]

I find your lack of argument compelling and the lack of good storytelling in games frightening.

Funny. I learned an assload about Rapture and Bioshock took control away from me for about 5 minutes total.

 

[fortified_concept]

Except most multiplayer games come with at least twice that many maps. Furthermore, we're talking about DLC before the game is released? That's bullshit. All I'm saying is that the way Konami was talking about MGO in relation to MGS4 really makes them seem to be separate games, so it's perfectly understandable that reviewers would review them separately.

So wait, the rest of them aren't complete? Well that certainly sucks for Warhawk which I consider the best multiplayer game this gen. As always your "logic" is hilarious.

 

[KTallguy]

Funny. I learned an assload about Rapture and Bioshock took control away from me for about 5 minutes total.

I agree that Kojima could actually learn some things from Ken Levine, but this is Kojima's style.

If you don't like the cutscenes, skip them, as they allow you to. Codec information that streams in WHILE YOU PLAY (similar to bioshock) will help you accomplish your next objective.

Again, I'm not saying that Kojima's style is "THE BEST WAY TO TELL STORY IN GAMES". But I enjoy the style for MGS and I'm glad that he kept it for the final chapter. The fans just wouldn't be happy if it didn't have awesome, cinematic cutscenes to watch.

 

[Pureauthor]

To clarify, I am not intrinsically opposed to cutscenes in videogames. Ideally, however, they should be short, succinct, and serve the primary purpose of assigning us our next playable task, whether it's resolving some spiky-haired teenagers emotional hangups or sabotaging a munitions factory or whatever - the cutscenes should exist for the sake of the gameplay.

And since the exist for the sake of the gameplay, they can't be too long or it'll detract from the actual gameplay time.

 

[Deepblue]

So wait, the rest of them aren't complete? Well that certainly sucks for Warhawk which I consider the best multiplayer game this gen. As always your "logic" is hilarious.

Again, you're attempting to compare different types of multiplayer games. In the realm of tactical shooters ala MGO, 5 maps is rare. Hell, the Halo 3 beta was only 3 maps and it was more fully featured than tons of retail multiplayer experiences. Does that mean that reviewers should have considered it when reviewing Crackdown? Hell no.

 

[Ynos Yrros]

I'm sure reviewers would have mentioned it had Konami not made it clear what was included was "merely" a starter-pack. The problem is really how Konami sold MGO, rather than what MGO is.

They haven't. I remember someone mentioning that they couldn't review it because the press servers weren't up.

There are supposed to be 7 maps, but we don't know yet. It was never said how robust MGO will be. All we know is that DLC is supposed to be coming, and that it is a part of MGS4. There is no starter pack or full pack.


Get on with times deepblue.

 

[WickedLaharl]

So are you saying since MGO only comes with 5 [robust] maps it deserves no mention in reviews?
No we're not.

isn't the content of mgo that comes with mgs4 called the starter pack?

 

[KTallguy]

To clarify, I am not intrinsically opposed to cutscenes in videogames. Ideally, however, they should be short, succinct, and serve the primary purpose of assigning us our next playable task, whether it's resolving some spiky-haired teenagers emotional hangups or sabotaging a munitions factory or whatever - the cutscenes should exist for the sake of the gameplay.

And since the exist for the sake of the gameplay, they can't be too long or it'll detract from the actual gameplay time.

I think that hats should be worn straight on your head, with no tilting or turning. I think that all music should have a consistant beat, with no variation whatsoever. I think that movies should go by the established hollywood model and not deviate.

See what happens when you limit things?

 

[fortified_concept]

Again, you're attempting to compare different types of multiplayer games. In the realm of tactical shooters ala MGO, 5 maps is rare.

:lol Oh now it's specifically tactical shooters that are supposed to have more maps (otherwise they're incomplete!!!) I can't wait to hear your explanation about why this makes any sense.

 

[dak1dsk1]

wait for the rip. It comes without 90min cutscenes, or cdda track. Doesn't need harddisk install and fits on a cd-r.

 

[NeoUltima]

They haven't. I remember someone mentioning that they couldn't review it because the press servers weren't up.

And thus my problem...Couldn't they have held back their reviews until the press servers went up and they could evaluate MGO...But no, publications just want to be the first ones to review MGS4, even if that means reviewing an incomplete product.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Just what in the hell is going on here?

 

[soldat7]

In which case I might as well watch Lord of the Rings instead, since it's got better story, better acting, better... well, just about everything not related to interactivity.



The most popular videogames ever have, for all practical purposes, 0 story in them.

Even if videogames can tell a compelling story via cutscenes, why would I want this story to be in a videogame instead of a book or a movie, since it has almost universally been executed more competently in those two fields instead of videogames, a medium that, and I repeat, is sold on the basis of interactivity.

Why can't a video game have a good story? Why does a good story have to only be in a book or a movie?

Why can't video games fuse the best elements of literature and the best elements of cinema? There is just as much a need for MGS as there is for Lumines in this industry.

Funny. I learned an assload about Rapture and Bioshock took control away from me for about 5 minutes total.

And how many Bioshocks do we have right now? How many Portals? How many Planescape Torments? How many Team ICO games?

Not enough.