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Leno heading back to late night. Conan given ultimatum.

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SpeedingUptoStop said:
And they're butchering the Tonight Show to please Leno, which is nuts.
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I guess Leno having a 2 year guaranteed contract with NBC should be ignored, right? It's a horrible contract, but NBC is the one at fault for not supporting Conan 100% and telling Leno to retire and take a hike. By the way, everyone blaming Leno is crazy.
 
Alphahawk said:
I think everyone's concentrating too much about what this means for Conan when the real impact is on Jay Leno. The Tonight Show's going to be the same as before, only later, while the Jay Leno Show is essentially being butchered. The show is now only 30 minutes long which doesn't leave much time for much at all. I remember Jay Leno did an interview last year where he said NBC initially wanted him to do a 30 minute show, but he refused and then was offered an hour. So yeah....
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What? Jay's show has failed abysmally and he's asking the network and Conan to accommodate his ego yet again. Leno had a chance to bow out gracefully.

You need to Google "Helen Kushnick". Despite Leno's milquetoast "nice guy" on-air persona, he has always been a self-righteous prick.
 
Teddman said:
What part of first half-hour don't you understand? Basically, I think it's awkward for him to be the announcer and standing at some podium.
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If Andy was on the couch in the first 30 minutes, he'd be sitting awkwardly by himself while Conan did a monologue. Do you have a thoughtful point to make or are you just trying to save face for getting caught with your pants down earlier? BrandNew was spot on.

How is it awkward anyway? Jay had Edd Hall sitting on a stool behind a podium in some nook under the audience stands doing the announcing and being his go-to joke guy for years. Conan had Joel alone in some sound booth somewhere with headphones on the whole time.

Alphahawk said:
I think everyone's concentrating too much about what this means for Conan when the real impact is on Jay Leno. The Tonight Show's going to be the same as before, only later, while the Jay Leno Show is essentially being butchered.
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The Tonight Show is still going to be the retarded kid in a wheelchair with a complementary gold medal.
 
The real loser in all of this is Carson Daly.

Assuming he even has a show anymore, what's the start time for him now? 2am? :lol
 
Seriously, nobody likes Leno.

NBC's decision to select Jay Leno and not Letterman to succeed Johnny Carson as host of The Tonight Show was an embarrassment to Carson, who had all but promised the succession to Letterman.[34] Letterman maintained a close relationship with Carson through his break with NBC. Three years after he left for CBS, HBO produced a made-for-television movie called The Late Shift, based on a book by New York Times reporter Bill Carter, chronicling the battle between Letterman and Leno for the coveted Tonight Show hosting spot. Letterman would mock the film for months afterward, specifically on how the actor playing him, John Michael Higgins, did not resemble him in the least.[citation needed] ("They took a guy who looked nothing like me and with make-up and special camera angles, turned him into a guy who looked nothing like me, with red hair.")[citation needed]
Carson later made a few cameo appearances as a guest on Letterman's show. Carson's final television appearance came May 13, 1994 on a Late Show episode taped in Los Angeles, when he made a surprise appearance during a 'Top 10 list' segment. The audience went wild as Letterman stood up and proudly invited Carson to sit at his desk.

The applause was so protracted that Carson was unable to say anything, and he finally returned backstage as the applause continued (it was later explained that Carson had laryngitis, though Carson can be heard talking to Letterman during his appearance).[35]
In early 2005, it was revealed that Carson still kept up with current events and late-night TV right up to his death that year, and that he occasionally sent jokes to Letterman, who used these jokes in his monologue; according to CBS senior vice president Peter Lassally (a onetime producer for both men), Carson got "a big kick out of it." Letterman would do a characteristic Johnny Carson golf swing after delivering one of Carson's jokes. In a tribute to Carson, all of the opening monologue jokes during the first show following Carson's death were written by Carson.

Lassally also claimed that Carson had always believed Letterman, not Leno, to be his "rightful successor."[36] Letterman also frequently employs some of Carson's trademark bits on his show, including "Carnac the Magnificent" (with Paul Shaffer as Carnac), "Stump the Band" and the "Week in Review."
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Any of you guys see Happiness?

Proves that Leno was considered lame even back then in '98.

The most boring character in the movie has a refrain of "You see Leno last night?"

Gets funnier every time I see it.
 
I can't stand Leno's brand of humour. His jokes always struck me as mean-spirited and degrading whereas Connan's self-deprecating humours is always endearing.

And yes, Letterman is awesome.
 
PacoDG said:
Going just with NBC shows, Conan is really the only one worth a shit at all.

Fallon laughs more at his own jokes than people who probably claim to be 'fans'
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They all do. Because their monologues, across the board, are fucking terrible 99% of the time. But Fallon's skits and games are hilarious.
 
Rocket Punch said:
I can't stand Leno's brand of humour. His jokes always struck me as mean-spirited and degrading whereas Connan's self-deprecating humours is always endearing.

And yes, Letterman is awesome.
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It's not that I don't like Leno's humor (mean-spirited?) is that he has no humor. Add to that he's a dickless total douchbag that will chop heads off for a spot on TV.
 
Count Dookkake said:
Any of you guys see Happiness?

Proves that Leno was considered lame even back then in '98.

The most boring character in the movie has a refrain of "You see Leno last night?"

Gets funnier every time I see it.
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You do know he was considered lame/tame even before he took over for the Tonight Show. The thing is being lame/tame was considered a safer bet for NBC which is why they didn't go for Letterman who was definitely edgier and funny. History bore out that decision to be the correct one (in terms of ratings).
 
Seth C said:
They all do. Because their monologues, across the board, are fucking terrible 99% of the time. But Fallon's skits and games are hilarious.
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Fallon doing karaoke with Amy Adams the other night was great. Especially when they impersonated Neil Diamond and Barbara Streisand. And Fallon's impression of Neil Young doing the Fresh Prince theme song was amazing.
 
gdt5016 said:
Seriously, nobody likes Leno.
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Going by the amount of people that watch him, it would seem that a lot more people like him than any other late night host. And that's what this is really all about.
 
Late Night guys:

Letterman>Conan>Kimmel>Fallon>Ferguson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sore on the inside of my mouth>Lopez>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>stepping in shit barefoot>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>working at a slaughterhouse>>>Jay Leno.
 
gdt5016 said:
Seriously, nobody is a fanatical supporter of Leno.
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Fixed that for the truth. Leno pulls in more viewers, so more people must like him. Conan just has more vocal and impassioned fans, which are unfortunately a minority compared to Leno's viewers.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Going by the amount of people that watch him, it would seem that a lot more people like him than any other late night host. And that's what this is really all about.
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Well, sure. Middle America digs Leno. Where they find Letterman to be "not nice" and Conan to be "weird."

Edit: Guys, I KNOW Leno has higher ratings. I'm decrying that fact, and remarking on the notion that no one in the business like Leno. Which is why I posted that Carson/Letterman bit.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Going by the amount of people that watch him, it would seem that a lot more people like him than any other late night host. And that's what this is really all about.
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No, this is about NBC being unable to make good decisions about the longterm future of the network.

Jay should have been asked to walk and the full resources of the network used to promote and build Conan.
 
Wait, is it true that leno is behind most of this? Word on the street has always been that leno moved out of the tonight show so NBC wouldn't loses conan. And he went to 10 so NBC wouldn't lose jay. Jay at 10 was a stupid NBC test that has failed in many ways. Since conan is not pickin up solid numbers at 11:30, they are trying to move jay back in there without takin an hour away from conan.

So what is jay doin wrong? By not out of the kindness of his heart retiring altogether and ignoring nbc's offers when he wad never ready to leave in the first place? NBC fucked up. Plain and simple. And this is the aftermath. And any conan fan knows that simply putting him at 11:30 where 50+ typically watch was also a risk, unless they were willing to lose those viewers. Since NBC sucks all around in almost every way possible when it comes to shows, they are makin some desperate changes
 
PhoncipleBone said:
Fallon doing karaoke with Amy Adams the other night was great. Especially when they impersonated Neil Diamond and Barbara Streisand. And Fallon's impression of Neil Young doing the Fresh Prince theme song was amazing.
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It's all great. Playing Scattergories (Michael Cera) and cherades with guests and audience members. Hot dog in a hole, slowjamming the news, letters home, basketball with random objects, wheel of carpet samples...the list goes on and on.
 
Tobor said:
No, this is about NBC being unable to make good decisions about the longterm future of the network.

Jay should have been asked to walk and the full resources of the network used to promote and build Conan.
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It's entirely about ratings. If we were sitting here with Conan pulling Jay's ratings then we aren't having this conversation. The problem is that he isn't. The base the Conan appeals to is one that often times doesn't watch late night TV. They'll download an episode or watch it on Hulu the next day or whenever they feel like it. Leno's base is one that will watch it when it airs. That's what NBC wants. They don't have time to sit around waiting to see of the theories of Conan fans pan out.
 
Megadragon15 said:
You should look up his appearance on Good Times. Maybe his Doritos commercials. Those are better examples of his lameness.
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I only have to look back 24 or so hours to his last show for good examples of his lameness.

But I do remember the Doritos commercials back in the day.
 
PhoncipleBone said:
I only have to look back 24 or so hours to his last show for good examples of his lameness.

But I do remember the Doritos commercials back in the day.
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"Crunch all you want. We'll make more."


Although I will admit I did like the move American Hot Wax, but I used to be a big radio nerd. Leno has a role in that.
 
SolidSnakex said:
It's entirely about ratings. If we were sitting here with Conan pulling Jay's ratings then we aren't having this conversation. The problem is that he isn't. The base the Conan appeals to is one that often times doesn't watch late night TV. They'll download an episode or watch it on Hulu the next day or whenever they feel like it. Leno's base is one that will watch it when it airs. That's what NBC wants. They don't have time to sit around waiting to see of the theories of Conan fans pan out.
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Absolutely true.

Really, the only reason Conan is still there, having an option to stay, is so that NBC don't look like dicks.

It makes sense, what they're doing.




That doesn't mean we can't shit on Leno.
 
gdt5016 said:
That doesn't mean we can't shit on Leno.
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What is Leno really doing wrong though? From what I understand he had no issue going to another network. But NBC quickly stepped in and offered him another show. This is really an issue with NBC. They never should've given Conan the TS gig until they actually had their shit together because they never were going to be able to give him any room to improve. They're in a shithole and they can't really afford to experiment in areas like that. So this whole situation was one that was destined to fail because of how bad off NBC is right now.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Going by the amount of people that watch him, it would seem that a lot more people like him than any other late night host. And that's what this is really all about.
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This is true.

I wonder what your average Leno viewer would look like. Surely they're a fairly dumb, average breed of people.
 
border said:
Demanding a spotlight when he agreed to step down?
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Is there any proof that he's demanding that time slot? He didn't demand that NBC rehire him, he was fine going to another network. They just wouldn't let him go.
 
A lot of the Leno bashing in this thread is really pathetic. I don't think he's really funny (it's not a coincidence that his best segments are the ones where he doesn't really have to do anything) and I greatly prefer Conan, but it's really getting ridiculous here.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Is there any proof that he's demanding that time slot? He didn't demand that NBC rehire him, he was fine going to another network. They just wouldn't let him go.
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Wouldn't let him go? What does that mean? That they offered him so much money that it physically restrained him from leaving NBC?

What he did was classless. He's undermined Conan's foray into the Tonight Show. What if Carson had done the same? He would have taken much of his audience with him and Leno would have never gotten off the ground.
 
gdt5016 said:
Seriously, nobody likes Leno.
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Oh boo hoo. Carson promised the show to Letterman. NBC gave it to Leno. Leno ends up stomping Letterman week in and out for some 12-13 years. Guess who choose right :lol
 
Socreges said:
Wouldn't let him go? What does that mean? That they offered him so much money that it physically restrained him from leaving NBC?

What he did was classless. He's undermined Conan's foray into the Tonight Show. What if Carson had done the same? He would have taken much of his audience with him and Leno would have never gotten off the ground.
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But Carson retired. Leno wasn't retiring.
 
shintoki said:
Oh boo hoo. Carson promised the show to Letterman. NBC gave it to Leno. Leno ends up stomping Letterman week in and out for some 12-13 years. Guess who choose right :lol
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You're a bit off the mark. NBC promised the Tonight Show to Letterman too (contractually). Then Leno and his team did some really underhanded things, basically stole that spot from Letterman.

And yes, Leno won out in viewers, but never love and respect. Or paychecks.
 
SolidSnakex said:
And as many people do, he changed his mind. Now NBC could've let him walk but they didn't. Once he revealed that he still wanted to host a late night show they quickly offered him another show.
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True.

But keep in mind that they let Conan have the show because Leno was retiring.

They expected Leno to retire, not compete against them and Conan.

Edit: When the deals were made, it was assumed Leno was going to retire.



I'm not angry that he changed his mind (it was his right, of course), but just something to keep in mind.
 
gdt5016 said:
You're a bit off the mark. NBC promised the Tonight Show to Letterman too (contractually). Then Leno and his team did some really underhanded things, basically stole that spot from Letterman.

And yes, Leno won out in viewers, but never love and respect. Or paychecks.
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You think the people tuning into Leno every day hate his guts?

And what are these underhanded things that Leno did to get the Tonight Show? I know that it was originally promised to Letterman and NBC ended up giving it to Leno, but I've never heard the specifics on what Leno did to make that happen.
 
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