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Is there any proof that he's demanding that time slot? He didn't demand that NBC rehire him, he was fine going to another network. They just wouldn't let him go.

The whole hiring of Conan was contingent on Leno's agreement not to interfere or undermine his successor. They never would have given away The Tonight Show if they thought Leno would be constantly threatening to go to another network. Instead of manning up, honoring his word, and passing the reigns he decided to be a bitch, to the detriment of himself and everyone else involved.

"Bu-bu-bu-bu-but he changed his mind!" is such a pathetic excuse for snivelly behavior.

 

[Blader]

True.

But keep in mind that they let Conan have the show because Leno was retiring.

They expected Leno to retire, not compete against them and Conan.

Edit: When the deals were made, it was assumed Leno was going to retire.



I'm not angry that he changed his mind (it was his right, of course), but just something to keep in mind.

So the progression of events was: Leno announces retirement --> NBC offers Conan the Tonight Show? Because I thought it was: Conan's contract expires --> NBC tells him if he does Late Night for 5 more years they'll give him the Tonight Show --> Leno announces his retirement and Conan as his successor.

 

[gdt]

You think the people tuning into Leno every day hate his guts?

And what are these underhanded things that Leno did to get the Tonight Show? I know that it was originally promised to Letterman and NBC ended up giving it to Leno, but I've never heard the specifics on what Leno did to make that happen.

I concede on the first one, I meant more like critical and industry love.


All the stuff that went down was documented in The Late Shift (book and movie). Someone else who remembers better could fill you in better than me.

But that Leno hiding in the closet thing is so damn funny :lol . IIRC, he knew a meeting was going down, so he hid in a closet to eavesdrop. I'm pretty sure I have that right :lol .

 

[Corran Horn]

I concede on the first one, I meant more like critical and industry love.


All the stuff that went down was documented in The Late Shift (book and movie). Someone else who remembers better could fill you in better than me.

But that Leno hiding in the closet thing is so damn funny :lol . IIRC, he knew a meeting was going down, so he hid in a closet to eavesdrop. I'm pretty sure I have that right :lol .

From what I remember from the movie, Leno's manager was more of the person who underhanded everyone to get Leno the spot, but then again Leno didnt stop her.

 

[Trurl]

You know who likes Leno more than Letterman? Douche bags. Seriously, name any famous douche bag and it's a safe bet that they prefer Leno. Limbaugh prefers Leno, Sarah Palin prefers Leno.

Even though I like Bill Maher, he's definitely a douche bag and I know he's fond of Leno.

 

[demon]

You think the people tuning into Leno every day hate his guts?

I've always been under the impression that, for the most part, outside of the "moms and dads crawling into bed with the tv on" demographic Leno's just not liked and revered as much as Conan or Letterman, by other comedians included.

 

[SolidSnakex]

The whole hiring of Conan was contingent on Leno's agreement not to interfere or undermine his successor. They never would have given away The Tonight Show if they thought Leno would be constantly threatening to go to another network. Instead of manning up, honoring his word, and passing the reigns he decided to be a bitch, to the detriment of himself and everyone else involved.

"Bu-bu-bu-bu-but he changed his mind!" is such a pathetic excuse for snivelly behavior.

That's not a pathetic excuse. Near the end of contracts there are many people that realize that they really aren't ready to stop doing what they do. Leno clearly enjoys hosting late night shows. There's no reason that he should have to give up something that he enjoys doing just to make someone else happy. And that's basically what you're saying that he should've done.

At the end of the day he did give the keys to Conan. But he has no obligation to sit on his ass somewhere just to make Conan's life easier.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Really, the only reason Conan is still there, having an option to stay, is so that NBC don't look like dicks.

Not entirely true. While they do have a PR nightmare on their hands, no matter which direction they go, the $40 million Conan contract is not really allowing them to just let him go easily.

Also, it should be pointed out that NBC's new owners don't really have any loyalty to anyone. They just want to see results out of their new investment.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

The late night talk show is a lifeless form. I'd love to see Conan do something else altogether, or at least go to FOX and do something new with the concept.

 

[Socreges]

And as many people do, he changed his mind. Now NBC could've let him walk but they didn't. Once he revealed that he still wanted to host a late night show they quickly offered him another show.

Just how many people, companies, peripherals, videogames, and things in general are you an apologist for, SSx?

You treat him changing his mind as something so ordinary, like me deciding I want to order a beer instead of a glass of wine. I merely changed my mind, as did Leno, right? Fuck that. His decisions were important ones. Even Leno acknowledged that:

When Jay Leno announced (in 2004) that he was going to retire (in 2009) and hand "The Tonight Show" over to Conan O'Brien, he made much of his desire for a smooth, friendly transition.

In his on-air announcement, Leno recalled the controversy surrounding his ascension to the "Tonight" throne instead of logical successor David Letterman, saying, "A lot of good friendships were permanently damaged."

He insisted, "Quite frankly, I don't want to see anybody go through that again."

But then he simply changed his mind! No biggie, right? Happens all the time!

Only that he knew in 2004, as can be seen in the quote above, the potential there was if he didn't retire gracefully. Yet, perhaps getting some sort of itch, decided to fuck with things anyhow.

And Leno, well, unless he follows through on his promise and retires gracefully, he'll be giving people the shaft all over again.

It's utterly astonishing that he has been able to maintain a nice-guy image to this point. If Leno does anything other than retire gracefully from late-night TV in 2009, that image should be finished forever.

Agreed. He's a tool with no respect for anything but his own career and legacy.

 

[MojoRisin]

The late night talk show is a lifeless form. I'd love to see Conan do something else altogether, or at least go to FOX and do something new with the concept.

This. It's the same format day after day after day after day.

 

[Megadragon15]

Not entirely true. While they do have a PR nightmare on their hands, no matter which direction they go, the $40 million Conan contract is not really allowing them to just let him go easily.

Also, it should be pointed out that NBC's new owners don't really have any loyalty to anyone. They just want to see results out of their new investment.

Until the regulatory scrutiny is done and approved, NBC still has the same owner: GE.

 

[Tedesco!]

Leno is the Dane Cook of late night talk shows. He's popular, but yet everyone seems to hate him.

 

[Socreges]

You think the people tuning into Leno every day hate his guts?

And what are these underhanded things that Leno did to get the Tonight Show? I know that it was originally promised to Letterman and NBC ended up giving it to Leno, but I've never heard the specifics on what Leno did to make that happen.

"Leno's then-manager not only plotted against and double-crossed David Letterman (who had boosted Leno's career by making him a frequent guest on "Late Night"), but she plotted against Johnny Carson himself. Carson's sudden announcement of his retirement (made without forewarning his NBC bosses) was at least in part because he was tired of the behind-the-scenes maneuvering on behalf of Leno, who was the permanent guest host of "Tonight" at the time."

 

[Pudding Tame]

Honestly, how do you manage to screw up the Tonight Show succession worse than the Letterman / Leno fiasco? It's like the current suits at NBC are getting paychecks from some other network to run a scorched earth campaign.

 

[Kettch]

Conan is great, but the format sucks. I only end up watching about 1/3rd of his show on average. Most of the post-monologue bits and the interesting guests like Reptile Handling guy and Stunt guy.

 

[Megadragon15]

Honestly, how do you manage to screw up the Tonight Show succession worse than Letterman / Leno fiasco? It's like the current suits at NBC are getting paychecks from some other network to run a scorched earth campaign.

This is NBC under GE ownership you are talking about. Par for the course. They don't like to make trasitions easy. That wouldn't make sense to them. I think trasitions were smoother when NBC was owned by RCA.

 

[border]

There's no reason that he should have to give up something that he enjoys doing just to make someone else happy. And that's basically what you're saying that he should've done.

I'm saying that he should keep his word, because so much else was contingent upon him making an honorable exit. And if he can't keep his word, then don't fuck over the people that were relying on him to do so. Do something that isn't competing with or diluting the viability of the successor you agreed upon.

The guy was clearly slime after the Letterman debacle, I'm not sure why you insist that all this shit is just an innocent mistake.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Any of you guys see Happiness?

Proves that Leno was considered lame even back then in '98.

The most boring character in the movie has a refrain of "You see Leno last night?"

Gets funnier every time I see it.

Leno was lame even when he was guest hosting on the Tonight Show before Johnny Carson retired.

Several times when I was in elementary school, I remember staying up late to watch Carson with my grandparents, then Leno would walk out and I'd be like "where the fuck is Johnny and why is the guy from the Doritos commercials here?"

 

[grandjedi6]

Do it Conan, do it do it do it. I'm tired of missing the first half of your show because Colbert's on.

 

[professor_t]

Late Night guys:

Letterman>Conan>Kimmel>Fallon>Ferguson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sore on the inside of my mouth>Lopez>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>stepping in shit barefoot>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>working at a slaughterhouse>>>Jay Leno.

I could agree with this completely, except you ranked Leno a little too high.

 

[SolidSnakex]

The guy was clearly slime after the Letterman debacle, I'm not sure why you insist that all this shit is just an innocent mistake.

I never said that it was an innocent mistake. I'm just saying that people have the right to change their mind. If Conan can't handle some competition, even though Leno is on before his show, then maybe he didn't deserve the slot he got in the first place.

 

[border]

I'm just saying that people have the right to change their mind.

Anyone can change their mind, but expecting everything else to revolve around your mood swings is pretty much the definition of petty and selfish. I've made agreements that I wasn't happy about in retrospect, but I went through with them because I recognized that backing out would just fuck over everyone.

 

[elrechazado]

I'm just saying that people have the right to change their mind.

And everyone else has a right to point out how douchebaggy it is to do so.

 

[dead souls]

So the progression of events was: Leno announces retirement --> NBC offers Conan the Tonight Show? Because I thought it was: Conan's contract expires --> NBC tells him if he does Late Night for 5 more years they'll give him the Tonight Show --> Leno announces his retirement and Conan as his successor.

Your chronology is correct. Conan's representation was pushing behind the scenes for a firm date of when he would get The Tonight Show. It really sucks to be defending Leno, since I don't find him even remotely funny, but that's what happened. Leno never really wanted to retire.

Whatever happens I won't be watching either show. I still can't believe the drop off in quality from Conan's Late Night to Conan's Tonight Show.

 

[teiresias]

How anyone can defend Leno at this point is beyond me. It was clear he was a douche, and a tool, with no spine to do his own dirty work and "dirty" his own image after how it all went down years ago with Letterman. That the same BS is happening again and involves Leno is no coincidence, and anyone that's stupid enough to think he's been innocent in any of this crap is just being willfully ignorant. If he didn't want to retire he could say no way back when they demanded it, simple as that. Conan would have gone elsewhere and probably be in a far better position than he is now and not working for a network that treats its talent (the ones that aren't douches anyway) like dog shit.

I can't wait to hear the excuses coming out of NBC if this new "combo" doesn't improve the ratings picture, or even if Leno's own show itself doesn't gain.

 

[Coolio McAwesome]

If Conan can't handle some competition, even though Leno is on before his show, then maybe he didn't deserve the slot he got in the first place.

That's bullshit. How well do you think Leno would have done if Johnny Carson refused to step aside in '93? Do you think Leno would have survived if NBC had decided to run "The Johnny Carson" show every night at 10 PM after Leno took over the Tonight Show? NBC promoted the fuck out of the Jay Leno Show and cannibalized Conan's audience in the process. Moreover, Conan was never given the opportunity to grow his audience in the 11:30 position. Conan wasn't given a fair chance. It's as simple as that.

 

[Kibbles]

How anyone can defend Leno at this point is beyond me. It was clear he was a douche, and a tool, with no spine to do his own dirty work and "dirty" his own image after how it all went down years ago with Letterman. That the same BS is happening again and involves Leno is no coincidence, and anyone that's stupid enough to think he's been innocent in any of this crap is just being willfully ignorant. If he didn't want to retire he could say no way back when they demanded it, simple as that. Conan would have gone elsewhere and probably be in a far better position than he is now and not working for a network that treats its talent (the ones that aren't douches anyway) like dog shit.

I can't wait to hear the excuses coming out of NBC if this new "combo" doesn't improve the ratings picture, or even if Leno's own show itself doesn't gain.

When did he ever say he was going to retire? As far as I know NBC moved him up to 10 and he was pissed about that.


I think they should boot Fallon, put conan and leno back to the way they were.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

That's bullshit. How well do you think Leno would have done if Johnny Carson refused to step aside in '93? Do you think Leno would have survived if NBC had decided to run "The Johnny Carson" show every night at 10 PM after Leno took over the Tonight Show? NBC promoted the fuck out of the Jay Leno Show and cannibalized Conan's audience in the process. Moreover, Conan was never given the opportunity to grow his audience in the 11:30 position. Conan wasn't given a fair chance. It's as simple as that.

Pretty much. This is pathetic by NBC.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

When did he ever say he was going to retire? As far as I know NBC moved him up to 10 and he was pissed about that.

then you don't know the history of this. read up on it, chum.

 

[Megadragon15]

That's bullshit. How well do you think Leno would have done if Johnny Carson refused to step aside in '93? Do you think Leno would have survived if NBC had decided to run "The Johnny Carson" show every night at 10 PM after Leno took over the Tonight Show? NBC promoted the fuck out of the Jay Leno Show and cannibalized Conan's audience in the process. Moreover, Conan was never given the opportunity to grow his audience in the 11:30 position. Conan wasn't given a fair chance. It's as simple as that.

I like the fact that him having a talk show at 12:30 for 16 years was not being given a fair chance. He had an audience. The problem is that they abandoned him at 11:30.

 

[SolidSnakex]

That's bullshit. How well do you think Leno would have done if Johnny Carson refused to step aside in '93? Do you think Leno would have survived if NBC had decided to run "The Johnny Carson" show every night at 10 PM after Leno took over the Tonight Show? NBC promoted the fuck out of the Jay Leno Show and cannibalized Conan's audience in the process. Moreover, Conan was never given the opportunity to grow his audience in the 11:30 position. Conan wasn't given a fair chance. It's as simple as that.

Conan's rating were already in the shit before Leno even went on air or even before they started promoting it because people were tuning out of Conan and watching Letterman. So come off the shit about Leno cutting into Conan's rating. People just don't want to watch the guy.

 

[Cipherr]

I think Lenos funny, and dont really like Conan, hes ok, but not as good as Leno IMO. I wonder if thats whats behind all this. Ratings and shit, because Id much rather watch Leno than Conan.

I never had any clue all this shit ran so deep, they are just stuff I turn on before I go to sleep at night :lol :lol

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

I didn't know people could be so misinformed about this entire thing. Jesus people, read the fuck up on this shit.

 

[Socreges]

I'm just saying that people have the right to change their mind.

In response to what? What's your point? Who would actually argue that he doesn't have the "right" to change his mind? Are people suggesting that he should be jailed?

Of course he has the right. Just like I have the right to go around telling people that they're fat and ugly. Just like I have the right to cheat on my girlfriend or lie to my friends. But just because I have the right to do so doesn't make it any less slimy.

 

[Jin]

At the end of the day he did give the keys to Conan. But he has no obligation to sit on his ass somewhere just to make Conan's life easier.

And that's why people hate him now.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Kimmel Show is awesome because they made I'm Fucking Matt Damon and I'm Fucking Ben Affleck.

 

[Megadragon15]

I can't believe that people are so emotional over millionaires. Leno, O'Brien, Lettermen, Kimmel, Ferguson, etc. They are all millionaires and they wouldn't defend anyone on GAF.

 

[border]

I like the fact that him having a talk show at 12:30 for 16 years was not being given a fair chance. He had an audience. The problem is that they abandoned him at 11:30.

Aren't his ratings the same or better than they were with Late Night at 12:30?

 

[Socreges]

I can't believe that people are so emotional over millionaires. Leno, O'Brien, Lettermen, Kimmel, Ferguson, etc. They are all millionaires and they wouldn't defend anyone on GAF.

This is just the worst argument I've ever seen, made worse by how confidently it was given.

 

[Megadragon15]

This is just the worst argument I've ever seen, made worse by how confidently it was given.

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

Keep telling youself that.

Keep being ignorant.

 

[Coolio McAwesome]

Conan's rating were already in the shit before Leno even went on air or even before they started promoting it because people were tuning out of Conan and watching Letterman. So come off the shit about Leno cutting into Conan's rating. People just don't want to watch the guy.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about. The fact of the matter is that NBC actually started promoting the Jay Leno Show before Leno left the Tonight Show. They even ran a commercial for it during the Super Bowl last year (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7SANtkdr-U). That ad ran four months BEFORE Conan took over the Tonight Show. The Jay Leno show was heavily promoted for months before he went on air and it was impossible to watch the Tonight Show without seeing promos for the show. To suggest that Conan's ratings were "in the shit" before they started promiting Leno is a lie. You are wrong.

 

[border]

I can't believe that people are so emotional over millionaires. Leno, O'Brien, Lettermen, Kimmel, Ferguson, etc. They are all millionaires and they wouldn't defend anyone on GAF.

How dense can you be?

I suspect if I had provided Conan with literally thousands of hours of laughs and entertainment for over 15 years, he probably would be defending me.

 

[DMczaf]

You obviously don't know what you are talking about. The fact of the matter is that NBC actually started promoting the Jay Leno Show before Leno left the Tonight Show. They even ran a commercial for it during the Super Bowl last year (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7SANtkdr-U). That ad ran four months BEFORE Conan took over the Tonight Show. The Jay Leno show was heavily promoted for months before he went on air and it was impossible to watch the Tonight Show without seeing promos for the show. To suggest that Conan's ratings were "in the shit" before they started promiting Leno is a lie. You are wrong.

Ether.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Sorry for Conan. Very creative guy who I love. My hope is Comedy Central moves Daily Show and Colbert to 10/10:30 respectively and then offer Conan an hour slot from 11-midnight. He would have a lot more freedom with content, and I for one would tune in every damn night. It'll never happen, but I think someone of Conan's creative talent deserves more than what he's been given. PEACE.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

Conan's rating were already in the shit before Leno even went on air or even before they started promoting it because people were tuning out of Conan and watching Letterman. So come off the shit about Leno cutting into Conan's rating. People just don't want to watch the guy.

It's called a "transition period." There has never been a smooth turnover for a show like this that has changed hosts. Carson struggled in his first year when he took over the Tonight Show from Jack Paar, just like Leno and Conan; shit, even Jon Stewart floundered for a while when he took over the Daily Show from Craig Kilborn, and this is a show that was incredibly niche and almost nothing like it is now back then. But instead of giving Conan the time to breathe and rediscover his voice and win his audience back/get a new audience, they instead cannibalized his show by pitting him against a talk show in the same region as he is (making them compete for guests), hosted by the guy who used to have his job, at an earlier time, on the same network, and far more heavily promoted than the new Tonight Show ever was (how many move theatre ads did you see for Conan? Because I can tell you how many ads for the Jay Leno show I saw - metric fucktons). Conan was never given a chance and anyone who argues otherwise is out of their mind.

Sorry for Conan. Very creative guy who I love. My hope is Comedy Central moves Daily Show and Colbert to 10/10:30 respectively and then offer Conan an hour slot from 11-midnight. He would have a lot more freedom with content, and I for one would tune in every damn night. It'll never happen, but I think someone of Conan's creative talent deserves more than what he's been given. PEACE.

A great idea but it would never happen, mostly because the Daily Show has been on at 11 PM since it began (to compete with the nightly news programs it parodies).

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I can't believe that people are so emotional over millionaires. Leno, O'Brien, Lettermen, Kimmel, Ferguson, etc. They are all millionaires and they wouldn't defend anyone on GAF.

Holy shit. I think this may be the dumbest argument ever posted on the Internet.

 

[Chipopo]

the things solidsnake chooses to defend always perplexes me.

 

[Tobor]

I can't believe that people are so emotional over millionaires. Leno, O'Brien, Lettermen, Kimmel, Ferguson, etc. They are all millionaires and they wouldn't defend anyone on GAF.

Ancient monks in Tibet once told me that the day would come when the stupidest thing that could ever be said would be uttered or written. On that fateful day, the purpose of the universe would be fulfilled and all life would be forfeit. The night sky will rise and the sun will blink out, and never rise again.

I laughed at the monks that day. Now, I imagine it is they who are laughing.