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[StuBurns]

This is why the 'mainline' and 'spin off' analogy falls apart, because that would imply that FFXIII is the title of which the standard is set, and a representation of the others, when it's really not the case at all.

That's wholly subjective, there are people who think Crisis Core is better than FFVII I'm sure, that doesn't stop FFVII being the mainline game within that 'compilation'.

No, I'm saying that with the introduction of FNC and SE's attempt to do annual FF releases, the 'mainline' numbered distinction isn't the only way for us to measure a game's worth.

It was never a way to determine a game's worth. How many people on GAF would rank Tactics above FF8? 90%+ I'd speculate.

 

[Astery]

vs trailer[/url]

It invokes the vibes of previous Final Fantasies, has elements that were missing from the more recent titles, it is being developed by a team that created the Kingdom Hearts series and written by the writer behind FFVII and FFX, two arguably most loved FF titles.

Watching this trailer again, I'm sad it's still not out today. Or even a god damn release date. Just hope it appears in TGS this year or I'm a sad panda.

I still can't believe they are ditching party members. They did say "end of lightning's story" So I guess its only fair we will get spin off games for Noel, Snow, Hope, Sazh? Who knows wtf SE is thinking these days.

Toriyama just loves Lightning so much, but writing up shitty storys for her ain't helping.
For reasons however, from development standpoint there is definitely less art work to deal with (with customization and such going on) at least.

 

[Noi]

It's not just the collection either, Dissidia also only recognizes the numbered entries.

To note, despite not being "mainline" games, Type-0 (back when it was known as Agito XIII) and Versus did get noticed in Dissidia as player/avatar icons. They're pretty much the only content in the game that isn't related to the mainline numbered entries.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Dissidia_Final_Fantasy_Player_Icons

 

[Meccanical]

the 1up preview made me think the battle system is essentially this:

- not fixed ATB cost
- one ATB meter
- overclock clock (upper right)

just the commands are assigned to 4 face buttons now, like TYPE-0

It took them several years to finally get this to work huh?

 

[BlazingDarkness]

I stated that in the past spin-offs have been there to make quick-buck and were nowhere near as good as the mainline titles. This is true. It is also true that from what was said Lightning Returns seems to be following this trend.

And thus returns your original silly assumption.
Different =/= bad.

 

[Mario007]

Not really, how would you realistically expect them to bundle every FF related game into one package? How many games would that be, and the price?
It's much easier to include only the numbered titles for very obvious reasons outside of which are deemed 'quality' enough

FFX-2 and FFXIII-2 could have easily been there and even they were left out. Square feels that a mainline FF game is a numbered entry. That's it.

From the very beginning, didn't they say all the FNC games were XIII, not just FF XIII.

Type-0, Versus, XIIIetc, are all XIII...together.

It's a compilation.

Take Ivalice Alliance as an anology. It only has one mainline FF game, that being FF XII but has many others which form the compilation. Now with FNC the compilation was known about even before any games came out. FFXIII was supposed to be the flagship that sells the mythos. Alas, that failed.

 

[Gr1mLock]

The least interesting protagonist in FF history is now getting another game? Wow..

 

[BlazingDarkness]

It was never a way to determine a game's worth.

Tell that to the guy claiming spin offs are all worse than their numbered counterparts.

 

[Mario007]

And thus returns your original silly assumption.
Different =/= bad.

It is following a trend like the previous spin-off projects: a vastly different gameplay, made with much less development time, focus on one character from the mainline entry. You can't dispute that. I haven't seen the game, I don't know if it's gonna be good but the indication are that it really won't be (given the dev time and the past record of the team) as well as not being something that I wanted from a sequel to FFXIII-2.

 

[MagiusNecros]

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Brigade

Legends section.

I think those are all relevant.

Tell that to the guy claiming spin offs are all worse than their numbered counterparts.

That's like saying Tactics was subpar to FFXII.

How insulting.

 

[Mario007]

Tell that to the guy claiming spin offs are all worse than their numbered counterparts.

Have you seen my post about FFXII and FFXIII being worse than Crisis Core, Dissidia or Type-0?

 

[StuBurns]

Tell that to the guy claiming spin offs are all worse than their numbered counterparts.

Indeed, I certainly disagree with that assertion. While I don't think Tactics is as good as the mainline three that generation, I think Crisis Core is better than X-2/XII/XIII/XIII-2, I bet Type-0 is fantastic too.

 

[MartyStu]

Indeed, I certainly disagree with that assertion. While I don't think Tactics is as good as the mainline three that generation, I think Crisis Core is better than X-2/XII/XIII/XIII-2, I bet Type-0 is fantastic too.

That is crazy talk...

 

[MagiusNecros]

That is crazy talk...

Yeah. Crisis Core wasn't that good for the recycled areas it used everywhere and the encounter rate. Which you could manipulate by walking corner to corner.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Which returns to Aena's point of it being more about the investment on SE's part that determines it's quality and not just it's name. This new game is a first party SE production with about 2 years overall development and promises to bring lots of new elements and style to the pot, I have nothin' but optimism myself!

 

[Meccanical]

Which returns to Aena's point of it being more about the investment on SE's part that determines it's quality and not just it's name. This new game is a first party SE production with about 2 years overall development and promises to bring lots of new elements and style to the pot, I have nothin' but optimism myself!

You know what also had the same amount of effort?

FF XIII.

 

[Draconian]

Wow. I thought "Lightning Returns" was something the OP came up with and was very confused. Then I came into the thread and laughed.

 

[dramatis]

Which returns to Aena's point of it being more about the investment on SE's part that determines it's quality and not just it's name. This new game is a first party SE production with about 2 years overall development and promises to bring lots of new elements and style to the pot, I have nothin' but optimism myself!

If it's starting in August and coming out 2013, it's less than 2 years.

Maybe they can grab some assets from the 14 and Versus teams for the world outside cities, and have a reduced amount of cutscenes so they don't need as much animation. They're going to have to cut a lot of corners...

 

[MagiusNecros]

You know what also had the same amount of effort?

FF XIII.

I swear. The game they overhyped back in 2006 is what this is going to be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMqJEANuot8

 

[BlazingDarkness]

If it's starting in August and coming out 2013, it's less than 2 years.

Maybe they can grab some assets from the 14 and Versus teams for the world outside cities, and have a reduced amount of cutscenes so they don't need as much animation. They're going to have to cut a lot of corners...

full production started in august, actual development would have begun way before then, with a smaller team

 

[MisterNegative]

How many 13 spinoffs before Versus show up?

If it ever shows up my friend

If

 

[StuBurns]

It can't have started in August of this year, something is being missed with that. You can't begin a game, and have it up, running, and ready to show the public in less than a month.

full production started in august, actual development would have begun way before then, with a smaller team

This makes a lot more sense. I wouldn't be surprised if people have been working on this since XIII shipped.

 

[Buttons]

I really want to be hyped for this but the more I think about it, the more I am annoyed by the "Doomsday clock". Putting timers in games is one of the most infuriating mechanics to me, I want to take my time and I want to play stuff at my pace, not have to rush or redo the same thing over and over.

Really wish it was a proper continuation of 13-2, I loved Noel as a lead character and wanted to play another game with him, and the Moogle. >.>

 

[BlazingDarkness]

You know what also had the same amount of effort?

FF XIII.

They tried something new and failed miserably, I remember them saying the whole linearity was this new way of playing through the story, people hated it, and XIII-2 was created as a result of the criticisms, and thus was less linear!
Now if only they can work on that writing..

 

[Mario007]

I swear. The game they overhyped back in 2006 is what this is going to be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMqJEANuot8

How the hell did we end up with FFXIII after that trailer???

 

[DaBuddaDa]

It can't have started in August of this year, something is being missed with that. You can't begin a game, and have it up, running, and ready to show the public in less than a month.

Sure, it's reasonable to assume they've been working on this as soon as XIII-2 went gold, which would mean they have had ~8 months already.

 

[alundra]

Why ? Nobody asked for

 

[Mario007]

Sure, it's reasonable to assume they've been working on this as soon as XIII-2 went gold.

Apparently Toriyama didn't even know what platform was his next project going to be on at that time, though (around the release of FFXIII-2).

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

How the hell did we end up with FFXIII after that trailer???

It really is pretty remarkable. I watched that trailer dozens of times, and every single thing about it just looked awesome. Especially since I like the more futuristic FF aesthetics.

Then the game came out and things were not as planned

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Apparently Toriyama didn't even know what platform was his next project going to be on at that time, though (around the release of FFXIII-2).

In my fantasy world that means Square was deciding whether or not to have Toriyama start work on FFXV or head XIII-3 and they decided to give XV to someone else.

 

[Schweinehund]

Sounds cool.

Wonder if it's using versus type gameplay, so they can get mileage out of game that's never coming out.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Apparently Toriyama didn't even know what platform was his next project going to be on at that time, though (around the release of FFXIII-2).

Not unbelievable though, considering it would have been merely at the planning stages then

 

[Yoshichan]

I swear. The game they overhyped back in 2006 is what this is going to be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMqJEANuot8

Hmm, if you take the battle-parts of the trailer, then it's no different from what we actually got. And the gameplay in this video just wouldn't make sense in an actual battle-setting... way too confusing + ridiculous camera-work.

 

[Magicpaint]

How the hell did we end up with FFXIII after that trailer???

I dunno, that trailer doesn't seem much different from what we got

 

[Meccanical]

I dunno, that trailer doesn't seem much different from what we got

Yeah, it was still a movie.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

I am intrigued by that original trailer with the 'overclock' in there, it's possibly an element they wanted to introduce in FFXIII but couldn't find a way to work it into the battle system effectively, and now they have done with this new game.

 

[StuBurns]

FFXIII was pitched as being 'seamless' when announced, and I can't remember if they talked about having party members, but I know a lot of people at the time speculated a solo game.

This does seem kind of like what people wanted from XIII, I know it's what I wanted.

 

[Mario007]

It really is pretty remarkable. I watched that trailer dozens of times, and every single thing about it just looked awesome. Especially since I like the more futuristic FF aesthetics.

Then the game came out and things were not as planned

Yeah, I mean all we've seen was a bit of the world and the battle system but then the battle system was pretty watered down and the I can't remember the action or the world to look that good in the game.

In my fantasy world that means Square was deciding whether or not to have Toriyama start work on FFXV or head XIII-3 and they decided to give XV to someone else.

I think it was more of a Square deciding whether or not to relegate Toriyama to handhelds or not and unfortunately no is the answer here.

Not unbelievable though, considering it would have been merely at the planning stages then

Found the article: http://andriasang.com/comzrg/xiii2_toriyama/ It's from the end of January. That means 7 months ago he still wasn't sure what platform the project was going to be on. They will really need to use a lot of old assets from FFXIII and other games they're developing (Versus, XIV, possibly XV) to get this game out next year.

 

[Lord Panda]

Wow. I thought "Lightning Returns" was something the OP came up with and was very confused. Then I came into the thread and laughed.

Yeah same except that I groaned.

 

[Yoshichan]

FFXIII was pitched as being 'seamless' when announced, and I can't remember if they talked about having party members, but I know a lot of people at the time speculated a solo game.

This does seem kind of like people wanted from XIII, I know it's what I wanted.

At the time, Lightning was a really loved character on GAF... things have changed now :3

 

[dramatis]

full production started in august, actual development would have begun way before then, with a smaller team

You can use semantics all you want, but the smaller team in pre-production is used to develop the concepts you saw at the presentation. Pre-production is about nailing the game mechanics, the look of the world, the characters' final designs and the story, etc. Production of assets and the full game come in the 'full production' stage you mention, but that also includes time to iron out bugs. Saying that 'full production' began in August doesn't change how tight the schedule is, especially since it appears they are recycling less, and introducing many new mechanics and a new world.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Found the article: http://andriasang.com/comzrg/xiii2_toriyama/ It's from the end of January. That means 7 months ago he still wasn't sure what platform the project was going to be on. They will really need to use a lot of old assets from FFXIII and other games they're developing (Versus, XIV, possibly XV) to get this game out next year.

Like I said earlier though, the concept work and the writing and the planning and everything could have been done before the platforms were decided upon, it's not unheard of, and PS3/360 were likely candidates with the engine being ready also.
I'd be weary to suggest they'd be reusing assets from FFXIII as it's set in a new world with new enemies, I'm sure even Lightning will be getting new models. If you want to talk about reusing assets, look at XIII-2. Still a great game ;3

 

[MagiusNecros]

You can use semantics all you want, but the smaller team in pre-production is used to develop the concepts you saw at the presentation. Pre-production is about nailing the game mechanics, the look of the world, the characters' final designs and the story, etc. Production of assets and the full game come in the 'full production' stage you mention, but that also includes time to iron out bugs. Saying that 'full production' began in August doesn't change how tight the schedule is, especially since it appears they are recycling less, and introducing many new mechanics and a new world.

And this argument is nulled since they showed a trailer backstage.

 

[StuBurns]

You can use semantics all you want, but the smaller team in pre-production is used to develop the concepts you saw at the presentation. Pre-production is about nailing the game mechanics, the look of the world, the characters' final designs and the story, etc. Production of assets and the full game come in the 'full production' stage you mention, but that also includes time to iron out bugs. Saying that 'full production' began in August doesn't change how tight the schedule is, especially since it appears they are recycling less, and introducing many new mechanics and a new world.

Not according to SE. Their definition of full production is clearly different. Versus XIII had gameplay trailers before it entered 'full production'.

 

[Meccanical]

And this argument is nulled since they showed a trailer backstage.

Wasn't it like reallly early footage though?

Like, pre-alpha stuff.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Wasn't it like reallly early footage though?

Like, pre-alpha stuff.

We shall see soon enough, someone said Lightning fights a behemoth.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

You can use semantics all you want, but the smaller team in pre-production is used to develop the concepts you saw at the presentation. Pre-production is about nailing the game mechanics, the look of the world, the characters' final designs and the story, etc. Production of assets and the full game come in the 'full production' stage you mention, but that also includes time to iron out bugs. Saying that 'full production' began in August doesn't change how tight the schedule is, especially since it appears they are recycling less, and introducing many new mechanics and a new world.

Most big internal SE stuff only goes into full production relatively late into development, I think Versus only went into full production late last year. 'Full production' is when they launch into development with a full team and get outsourcing stuff and bring everything together

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Wasn't it like reallly early footage though?

Like, pre-alpha stuff.

Yes, much like what that Versus gameplay trailer was like I imagine
Once they settle on everything and are happy to go forward, full production starts

 

[Stark]

apparently "modified" version of same engine as before, 1up article says. that sounds like their assumption though but probably it's true.


http://www.1up.com/previews/lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii-first-looks

I think it's a new engine. Maybe it looked that way since the demo is an early alpha build.

 

[The Lamp]

With the combat adjustments, the gothic/mechanical/fantasy comment, among other things, it sounds like they might have absorbed Versus into this. I'm convinced Versus doesn't even exist anymore.