LeVictorien
Banned
People are always outraged... black people over representation, white people when a character is non white or male. Someday we'll get over this.
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Little Devil Inside Attacked For Having ‘Racist Caricatures’
- Thread starter Bullet Club
- Start date
Thugnificient
Banned
I don't really care one way or the other but are you seriously pretending you don't see the caricature of tribal African savages there? Come on man.
LostDonkey
Member
The main character is dressed like a Samurai.
Let's call the Japanese people immediately!!
He even surf's on the back of a penguin down a sand dune at one point!!
Get fucking Peta on the phone NOW!!!
I really am getting tired of this constant need to disrupt anything you don't agree with. It's called inspiration. It's artistic. You should be proud the artist took inspiration from whatever culture.
And. It's a fucking video game.
Let's call the Japanese people immediately!!
He even surf's on the back of a penguin down a sand dune at one point!!
Get fucking Peta on the phone NOW!!!
I really am getting tired of this constant need to disrupt anything you don't agree with. It's called inspiration. It's artistic. You should be proud the artist took inspiration from whatever culture.
And. It's a fucking video game.
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John Mullins
Banned
Sad part is these things only get traction/attention after the target who's being attacked bends the knee.
Their artistic vision ends up compromised and they get tarred like they've done something wrong.
Good going guys. Best to ignore these trolls who have obvious deficiencies in their lives. They are looking for their moment in the sun, and you just gave it to them.
Their artistic vision ends up compromised and they get tarred like they've done something wrong.
Good going guys. Best to ignore these trolls who have obvious deficiencies in their lives. They are looking for their moment in the sun, and you just gave it to them.
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-Arcadia-
Banned
What's bad about tribal Africans of old?
It's a really cool culture and time period. Is depicting white people in their savage period racist? How about Native Americans?
Should be a point of pride, and a neat bit of history.
Clintizzle
Lord of Edge.
I wish the devs the best.
They would have had no idea America was going to react like this. It will probably be easy for them to change the look of the characters and quickly move to focus on marketing what looks like a pretty neat game.
This is going to be very common in gaming going forward.
They would have had no idea America was going to react like this. It will probably be easy for them to change the look of the characters and quickly move to focus on marketing what looks like a pretty neat game.
This is going to be very common in gaming going forward.
JimiNutz
Banned
Honestly hand on heart, I didn't notice it when I watched the trailer, no. I didn't notice it at all and wouldn't have noticed it until the outrage mob tried to make a big deal of it.
This smacks of someone going out of their way to look for something to be offended by and in my opinion, looking out for shit that black people should be offended by is actually kind of insulting and condescending.
Would it be less racist of those lips were yellow or something?
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Thugnificient
Banned
Depends who you ask. I think people mainly take issue with them consistently being depicted as dangerous, unhinged and backwards and overall inferior to western culture.
For generations, the tribal savage was used as a justification for the invasion and enslavement of native Africans, Polynesians, Natives etc. So them being a negative stereotype has everything to do with the way they were portrayed and the image they conveyed throughout history.
I mean Vikings wearing horned-helmets and swinging giant swords getting drunk is also a huge stereotype but nobody takes issue with this, especially not Scandinavians because this imagery was never used to undermine their culture or attempt to make them feel inferior(at least not successfully), on the contrary, it celebrates it.
If the tribal savage was a cool and positive stereotype throughout history, I doubt people would be this mad.
Like I said, I'm not bothered by this and am a huge proponent of freedom of speech but people acting like they don't know why others might be offended are every bit a problem as those who get offended.
Thugnificient
Banned
I noticed it immediately lol. Also it's not just the red lips. Dreads, dark skin, mask, blowguns...that's a lot of elements.
John Mullins
Banned
These tribal masks are supposed to be caricature in nature, aren't they? So they are tantamount to black face now I guess?
JimiNutz
Banned
Fair enough.
I've read through some of the Twitter comments for the tweet that originally raised the concern. Seems like there's a mix of some black people being offended and some black people not being offended at all.
I do understand what you're saying about the tribal savage traditionally being used as a negative stereotype. I just honestly didn't see that this depiction was particularly nasty or 'problematic'. Having seen it now I still don't believe, at this stage based on the trailer anyway, that there was any kind of malice intended by the developers of that game.
nush
Gold Member
Never assume malice when stupidity is still on the table as a reason.
Do you really make the assumption that everyone is up on the cultural history of this imagery and are just playing dumb? You've got a choice, you can explain and educate or just assign malice.
-Arcadia-
Banned
Do you think the game is trying to undermine African Americans?
The thing is, if we give in to tribal portrayals being racist, and wipe them from the face of the earth, aren't we erasing African history itself, which is ironically quite racist?
While little bits and pieces like this aren't true history, just pop culture drawing from the history of the world, and exaggerating it, shouldn't African history have a place at that table?
Or are we going to be afraid of what some retarded racists did, forever ago, for all time? Or today, people in their mom's basement, playing Neo Nazi or KKK, that aren't a fraction of a fraction of a fraction, they're so small and irrelevant?
Arkam
Member
Saw dozens with a quick google of “African Masks” those racist Africans up to their old antics again....
Daniel Vávra did, almost crucified by the video gaming press.
Thugnificient
Banned
Of course, I don't think that but the issue isn't whether or not the dev is ill-intentioned, clearly, they are not. The issue is that the stereotype they use has traditionally been filled with malice.
Also nah, you're not erasing African history by not using negative stereotypes lol.
As I said, I'm not the slightest bit bothered by it. I actually thought the little guys were funny and fit perfectly within the game world but I also understand why someone might get offended.
Then again, I also find this hilarious;
So I'm definitely not the guy who's gonna complain about any racial caricature be it Asian, white, Jew or what have you.
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Roman Empire
Member
Man, if this was Era, you would be banned for this comment. And the worst thing is that I'm not even joking about it.
CurtBizzy
Member
The lips does not cover half the face, try again
Saw dozens with a quick google of “African Masks” those racist Africans up to their old antics again....
-Arcadia-
Banned
Thugnificient
Banned
The contrast of the reaction between here and reee is funny as hell.
-Arcadia-
Banned
Again, who said it was a negative stereotype? I've said it before and I'll say it again, that culture is really neat and visually striking.
If people frequently see this stuff in their pop culture, maybe it leads to wanting to learn more. If they don't, at all, well, for many, it might as well not exist, with how uneducated or uninterested people are in things like world history.
Again, why shouldn't African cultural history have a seat at the table with the Vikings and Native Americans in popular culture? You don't seem to have an answer, other than 'nah', or writing an entire race's history off as racist, because some long-dead white people said so.
GreenAlien
Member
Remember when these same people complained about savage depictions of white people in Assassins Creed Valhalla?
Thugnificient
Banned
Geez almost like racism is everywhere in every human population in existence.
Jesus Christ, they actually caved to these snowflakes!? developers really need to grow some balls.
It's OK, the developer has apologized and will be making changes, now everyone complaining will happily buy this game and forget all about this little mistake. Right?
MiguelItUp
Member
It's too much based on something so minuscule IMO. Sure, I could understand people being offended, but then again, people are literally offended about anything these days.
Something that's meant to be taken innocently can be deconstructed in a way where intentions never existed in the first place, but suddenly that doesn't matter.
I remember seeing many cartoons and video game characters growing up that contained indigenous or tribal characters that generally had masks that had large eyes or mouths. A spear, blow darts, and a grass skirt. Maybe people didn't rage because of the color of their skin? I don't know.
Look up tiki characters, there's a lot there.
It's a stereotyped look for that specific kind of character. Tiki characters.
I feel bad for the developers, because I'm positive that intent was never there to begin with. But being accused of something that never existed really sucks. It's demeaning and embarrassing.
But whatever, I guess at least it's over and done with and they can move on.
Something that's meant to be taken innocently can be deconstructed in a way where intentions never existed in the first place, but suddenly that doesn't matter.
I remember seeing many cartoons and video game characters growing up that contained indigenous or tribal characters that generally had masks that had large eyes or mouths. A spear, blow darts, and a grass skirt. Maybe people didn't rage because of the color of their skin? I don't know.
Look up tiki characters, there's a lot there.
It's a stereotyped look for that specific kind of character. Tiki characters.
I feel bad for the developers, because I'm positive that intent was never there to begin with. But being accused of something that never existed really sucks. It's demeaning and embarrassing.
But whatever, I guess at least it's over and done with and they can move on.
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MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
OMG enough is enough. I'm so tired of this generation of sensitive brainless idiots.
-Arcadia-
Banned
Except teasing isn't racism. People need to be less sensitive and uptight, and find joy, humor, and community with people of all sorts of backgrounds and races.
The world won't be right until that happens.
Trueblakjedi
Member
Who is "these people?"
turtlepowa
Banned
Don't people have real problems nowadays? In some countries they even censor Tom & Jerry, because it has to be racist that the housekeeper is black or when they disguise themselfes as a black, asian or indian person.
GrayChild
Member
It's OK, the developer has apologized and will be making changes, now everyone complaining will happily buy this game and forget all about this little mistake. Right?
This is absolutely fucking retarded.
Imagine if Scandinavians got triggered over every minor detail in the dozens of viking films and games which are being released lately.
Imagine if us Slavs start to get our panties in a bunch over every mention of vodka, CYKA BLYAT, tracksuits etc. etc. Not to mention every other race and nation.
Will there ever be an end to this constant outrage?
All SJWs should just stop playing videogames and go someplace where there aren't any people who can offend them in any way.
Or maybe.... MAYBE... the gameindustry should drop that forced inclusivity and diversity just for the sake of being inclusive and diverse.
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nush
Gold Member
SJWs, not black people.
nush
Gold Member
The difference is intent. People will notice what is different about you as a race specifically if your the first person they have interacted with more so for children who "See it, say it".
Strider311
Member
Negative. Haven't you been paying attention? The next step is to ruin their lives.
It's OK, the developer has apologized and will be making changes, now everyone complaining will happily buy this game and forget all about this little mistake. Right?
Thugnificient
Banned
Arthur de Gobineau, Christopher Columbus, Hernan Cortes, and a lot of influential western explorers, thinkers, philosophers, etc.
Give you an example, here is an excerpt from Christopher Columbus as a Civic Saint: Angelo Noce and Italian American Assimilation justifying Columbu's subjugation of native Americans(not Africans but the same idea I'm trying to convey).
Columbus was fired by the noblest motive that can guide the action of man. Every page of his life is teeming with evidence that he went forth on his perilous voyage to carry the Gospel to debased and erring savages, and to pass it to them with the torch of true Christian Civilization... Where shall we find a character worthy to be compared to with him? [...] Columbus was in a measure divine [....] Write his name beside no human hero.
Or how about this entire piece about the white man's burden by Rudyard Kipling, defending Europe's domination and invasion of the Philipinnes because it was the white man's duty to bring culture, Christianity and civilization to a bunch of tribal savages?
The White Man's Burden: civilising the unwilling savage. (Detroit Journal, 1898)
Throughout history, the savage stereotype has been used by a myriad of influential thinkers to undermine tribal people. If I really need to show you this then you need to crawl out of your hole because it has been going on for centuries.
At this point what are you trying to do? I'm trying to explain to you why people might be offended yet here you are telling me you are not. Your view is irrelevant to our discussion, so is mine. All I'm attempting to do is show you why some people are offended for very obvious reasons. Whether you agree or not is of no importance because well, it won't stop them from being offended right?
You turned this whole thing into a debate which is incredibly stupid because there's no debate to be had. Neither of us is offended by this so what are you defending here?
Do you understand why people are offended? If yes then there's nothing to debate.
Kuranghi
Member
It's OK, the developer has apologized and will be making changes, now everyone complaining will happily buy this game and forget all about this little mistake. Right?
Part 4 had be cracking up, I was literally sparking a doobie when I read it and I blew sparks across the room
Best timing possible. I didn't even notice the "joint" the first few times I looked at the image. Mostly because it has no signifiers that indicate its definitely a joint over say, a cigarette or a rollie, just a fucking nothing situation.What the fuck is wrong with these people!!!! They see an NPC in a mask with big dreadlock-like hair, big red lips and what they think is a fucking marijuana joint in his hand and the first thing they think is:
"This reminds me of a black person"
Your thinking is completely fucked if thats where you go first imo, they need to get out of this mindset of looking for something to be offended by everywhere, just carry on and have a happy life ffs lol.
For me its not, "ignorance is bliss", its "most real hardship is gone from western society, maybe just enjoy it instead of creating new strife to keep you busy"
I wouldn't blame the devs, they are just trying to protect their art, although I wish they would stand up more to backlash like this.
-Arcadia-
Banned
Arthur de Gobineau, Christopher Columbus, Hernan Cortes, and a lot of influential western explorers, thinkers, philosophers, etc.
Give you an example, here is an excerpt from Christopher Columbus as a Civic Saint: Angelo Noce and Italian American Assimilation justifying Columbu's subjugation of native Americans(not Africans but the same idea I'm trying to convey).
Columbus was fired by the noblest motive that can guide the action of man. Every page of his life is teeming with evidence that he went forth on his perilous voyage to carry the Gospel to debased and erring savages, and to pass it to them with the torch of true Christian Civilization... Where shall we find a character worthy to be compared to with him? [...] Columbus was in a measure divine [....] Write his name beside no human hero.
Or how about this entire piece about the white man's burden by Rudyard Kipling, defending Europe's domination and invasion of the Philipinnes because it was the white man's duty to bring culture, Christianity and civilization to a bunch of tribal savages?
The White Man's Burden: civilising the unwilling savage. (Detroit Journal, 1898)
Throughout history, the savage stereotype has been used by a myriad of influential thinkers to undermine tribal people. If I really need to show you this then you need to crawl out of your hole because it has been going on for centuries.
At this point what are you trying to do? I'm trying to explain to you why people might be offended yet here you are telling me you are not. Your view is irrelevant to our discussion, so is mine. All I'm attempting to do is show you why some people are offended for very obvious reasons. Whether you agree or not is of no importance because well, it won't stop them from being offended right?
You turned this whole thing into a debate which is incredibly stupid because there's no debate to be had. Neither of us is offended by this so what are you defending here?
Do you understand why people are offended? If yes then there's nothing to debate.
So, a bunch of long-dead racist white people, as I said, and you lecturing me about no room for debate on a debate forum.
A+ tier argument.
