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[Dance Inferno]

Not quite...

Haha yes, well Dishonored is the only first person game I've played where leaning out of cover means enemies can't see you. In most first person games if you lean and you see an enemy, that enemy can generally see you too.

 

[Gbraga]

Really liked it too, aside from Charlie and Briggs, their missions were awful imo.

Grim's missions were the best hands down, Kobin and the campaign were also pretty good.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Haha yes, well Dishonored is the only first person game I've played where leaning out of cover means enemies can't see you. In most first person games if you lean and you see an enemy, that enemy can generally see you too.

You're right, I was just messin'.

 

[RedSwirl]

Splinter Cell level design was never ever in the same vein as TTLG stuff. If anything, SC levels were generally pretty linear, even most of Chaos Theory was moving from an area to another. Everyone just remembers Bank from CT and then assumes the whole game was like that.

Still, the spirit was DEFINITELY there in Chaos Theory, even if most of the levels were linear to a degree. It's probably the most well-designed stealth game ever that isn't called Thief.

 

[B-Genius]

Haha looks like you and I have the same taste for underappreciated games (first RE6 now Blacklist). I personally love the Panther playstyle, but I couldn't stand Conviction because it was forced on you. You had to play Panther whether you wanted to or not. I generally played Panther in Blacklist, but every now and then I would switch to Ghost or Assault depending on what my mood was like. In Conviction I never had that option, and I generally had to kill everyone before getting to the next section, which was kind of annoying.



I played one game of multiplayer and to be honest I found it really annoying. I played the Blacklist variant of SvM and as a spy my entire game involved spawning, heading towards the objective, and then getting murdered by a turret or a drone or a mine or a merc who was camping. I think at this point in the game's life there are people with all the high-tech gadgets unlocked that it makes it difficult for a newbie like myself to ease myself into the game at all.

What might be fun is setting up custom GAF games, if there are still enough people playing the game. The concept of the multiplayer seems really fun and I do want to experience it before completely dismissing it.

Ah yeah, I imagine it must be tricky. If I get it I'll be sure to jump back in here and pester you, or maybe someone should make a newb-friendly SvM thread where we can huddle together and take our time sneaking around?

 

[Screaming Meat]

My Batman: AO save glitched out resulting in 5-6 hours of gameplay going down the drain. I've put that aside until such a time as they decide to patch it and decided to give Blacklist a whirl last night. Did the first level on Perfectionist and have to say I really enjoyed it. Looking forward to digging deeper.

Also?

Spoiler

CROSSBOW!? YEEEEES!

 

[Dance Inferno]

Ah yeah, I imagine it must be tricky. If I get it I'll be sure to jump back in here and pester you, or maybe someone should make a newb-friendly SvM thread where we can huddle together and take our time sneaking around?

Now see this is an idea I like. I would be willing to make such a thread if there was enough interest in setting up custom GAF SvM games. Or we could just discuss it in this thread as well.

My Batman: AO save glitched out resulting in 5-6 hours of gameplay going down the drain. I've put that aside until such a time as they decide to patch it and decided to give Blacklist a whirl last night. Did the first level on Perfectionist and have to say I really enjoyed it. Looking forward to digging deeper.

Also?

Spoiler

CROSSBOW!? YEEEEES!

Glad you enjoyed it! I'm doing a Perfectionist run now and it really changes up the game from playing on Normal.

 

[pa22word]

I got this game for free (nvidia deal) and I still can't be bothered to give a fuck about it.

That's how badly Conviction destroyed my faith in the series.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Glad you enjoyed it! I'm doing a Perfectionist run now and it really changes up the game from playing on Normal.

That Libyian level definitely whet my appetite for some serious ghosting. Well up for trying out some SvM with the rest of GAF, so add me to the (black)list.

I got this game for free (nvidia deal) and I still can't be bothered to give a fuck about it.

That's how badly Conviction destroyed my faith in the series.

I can understand that. I felt pretty 'meh' towards this, but I am pleasantly surprised. It does still have a Conviction feel to it, it has to be said. It's like Conviction was the base and they built the old SC on top. If that turns you off, I'd probably skip it.

 

[The Antitype]

The one thing about this game that irritates me is the inclusion of enemies that basically all your gear is ineffective against, as well as mark and execute.

I mean, I get it, you don't want me using mark and execute as a crutch to make the game too easy. I gotcha. But I still have to silently take out bad guys to even earn it... if I've performed well enough to earn the skill, let me fucking use it. Don't put dudes with helmets that pop-off when I head-shot in there so that I'm automatically noticed and punished for using a feature central to your own damn game.

Or at the VERY least, let me select an enemy twice (as opposed to say, using three marks on three different targets, I could use two marks on one dude with a helmet, and one on another guy), so that I can double-tap him.

Also, the armored guys immune to sleeping gas, shock mines, etc? Fuck you. What the hell? If I want to slowly crouch-walk behind a guy so he doesn't notice me and subdue him, or jump on him to subdue him, fine, I'll do that. But if I don't want to do that, then let me use any number of perfectly cool weapons and gadgets to sneakily take him out.

It's fucking jarring for a game that gives you so much freedom for 90% of the gameplay to suddenly put up a wall and says 'NO! You must complete this particular challenge exactly as we say'.

The end result of this? Mastering Panther on Realistic difficulty by upgrading the ACR4000 (or whatever it's called) and just burst-firing dudes in the head from cover for silent kills. Least fun way to do it, but at least you know it works every goddamned time on every goddamned enemy.

/rant

*inhales*

Now, all that said... I actually really enjoyed the game. I particularly liked the way you can play through the missions in different ways. Lots of great challenge and replayability from that.

 

[Smushroomed]

Waiting for a sale

 

[Screaming Meat]

Waiting for a sale

£22 in Game... you meant Steam, didn't you? XD

 

[merrick97]

I loved this game. Its not quite a return to old form Splinter Cell, but damn was it fun.

Nothing would thrill me more than to have another Chaos Theory-type Splinter Cell.

 

[DryvBy]

I absolutely hate this game. Maybe because I got it on PC and it felt like it should have been a console game. But when I think of my original memories of Splinter Cell, it was a stealth game. In fact, I bought the HD remakes on PS3 (glitchy things) and had a lot of fun playing them because of how stealthy you could be. There were several parts of this game that felt like the game rewarded you for Ramboisms.

 

[pa22word]

I can understand that. I felt pretty 'meh' towards this, but I am pleasantly surprised. It does still have a Conviction feel to it, it has to be said. It's like Conviction was the base and they built the old SC on top. If that turns you off, I'd probably skip it.

Yeah. The sad thing is I was actually going to be fairly open minded about this one, then they revealed it with that faux "prealpha" footage @ E3 that basically made it look like even more Conviction and yeah...pretty much killed it for me. I know the marketing material supposedly poorly represented the final product in this way, but it was really too little too late for me at that point because it was the middle of the fall and so much other stuff was on the horizon that I wanted anyways that didn't need me to take a giant leap of faith on a $60 product in order to enjoy it.

 

[Gbraga]

The one thing about this game that irritates me is the inclusion of enemies that basically all your gear is ineffective against, as well as mark and execute.

I mean, I get it, you don't want me using mark and execute as a crutch to make the game too easy. I gotcha. But I still have to silently take out bad guys to even earn it... if I've performed well enough to earn the skill, let me fucking use it. Don't put dudes with helmets that pop-off when I head-shot in there so that I'm automatically noticed and punished for using a feature central to your own damn game.

Or at the VERY least, let me select an enemy twice (as opposed to say, using three marks on three different targets, I could use two marks on one dude with a helmet, and one on another guy), so that I can double-tap him.

Also, the armored guys immune to sleeping gas, shock mines, etc? Fuck you. What the hell? If I want to slowly crouch-walk behind a guy so he doesn't notice me and subdue him, or jump on him to subdue him, fine, I'll do that. But if I don't want to do that, then let me use any number of perfectly cool weapons and gadgets to sneakily take him out.

It's fucking jarring for a game that gives you so much freedom for 90% of the gameplay to suddenly put up a wall and says 'NO! You must complete this particular challenge exactly as we say'.

The end result of this? Mastering Panther on Realistic difficulty by upgrading the ACR4000 (or whatever it's called) and just burst-firing dudes in the head from cover for silent kills. Least fun way to do it, but at least you know it works every goddamned time on every goddamned enemy.

/rant

*inhales*

Now, all that said... I actually really enjoyed the game. I particularly liked the way you can play through the missions in different ways. Lots of great challenge and replayability from that.

You can mark and execute them from behind though, he'll grab the armored/helmet enemy, kill the other ones you marked and then finish them off.

 

[cackhyena]

How is it too little too late? You own it for free. Try it out at least.

 

[IvorB]

If you can see an enemy, the enemy can see you. That's the basic gist of stealth in first person. I actually think first person stealth is more exciting and thrilling than third person stealth because you don't have the ability to see around corners and behind you as you move around. You have to be a lot more methodical and careful in your approach.

I dunno. I'm playing Killzone on my Vita right now and trying to take it a bit stealthy and I honestly find it really impractical. I'm like: is my head below the counter? Is my foot sticking out? I don't know because I am invisible to myself.

 

[pa22word]

How is it too little too late? You own it for free. Try it out at least.

I'd rather earn a return on the key and make back some of that money I put in on my GPU. Plus, as I said in that post: I've got too many other games to play atm anyways.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Yeah. The sad thing is I was actually going to be fairly open minded about this one, then they revealed it with that faux "prealpha" footage @ E3 that basically made it look like even more Conviction and yeah...pretty much killed it for me. I know the marketing material supposedly poorly represented the final product in this way, but it was really too little too late for me at that point because it was the middle of the fall and so much other stuff was on the horizon that I wanted anyways that didn't need me to take a giant leap of faith on a $60 product in order to enjoy it.

The marketing for this was a complete clusterfuck. The message was either mixed up (one minute it's all "It's old school so don't panic", the next it's "You can Press A for Awesome... whilst running!") or it was entirely absent. I mean, I got the feeling that up to release they'd sort of left it to die a death.

I remember Jade Raymond doing an interview with Eurogamer on the basic stealth concepts behind Blacklist and I swear my balls just crawled up inside me, packed their bags and left my body via my mouth (i.e. it didn't bode well).

Thankfully, from my limited play time, it seems pretty good. Definitely more of a focus on stealth.

 

[IvorB]

The one thing about this game that irritates me is the inclusion of enemies that basically all your gear is ineffective against, as well as mark and execute.

I mean, I get it, you don't want me using mark and execute as a crutch to make the game too easy. I gotcha. But I still have to silently take out bad guys to even earn it... if I've performed well enough to earn the skill, let me fucking use it. Don't put dudes with helmets that pop-off when I head-shot in there so that I'm automatically noticed and punished for using a feature central to your own damn game.

Or at the VERY least, let me select an enemy twice (as opposed to say, using three marks on three different targets, I could use two marks on one dude with a helmet, and one on another guy), so that I can double-tap him.

Also, the armored guys immune to sleeping gas, shock mines, etc? Fuck you. What the hell? If I want to slowly crouch-walk behind a guy so he doesn't notice me and subdue him, or jump on him to subdue him, fine, I'll do that. But if I don't want to do that, then let me use any number of perfectly cool weapons and gadgets to sneakily take him out.

It's fucking jarring for a game that gives you so much freedom for 90% of the gameplay to suddenly put up a wall and says 'NO! You must complete this particular challenge exactly as we say'.

The end result of this? Mastering Panther on Realistic difficulty by upgrading the ACR4000 (or whatever it's called) and just burst-firing dudes in the head from cover for silent kills. Least fun way to do it, but at least you know it works every goddamned time on every goddamned enemy.

/rant

*inhales*

Now, all that said... I actually really enjoyed the game. I particularly liked the way you can play through the missions in different ways. Lots of great challenge and replayability from that.

I don't use this mark-and-execute. It's a terrible gamey feature I wish they had not included. If I want to execute dudes I'll do it the old fashioned way. I wish it could be disabled but luckily so far I have just not used it and it's been fine.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I don't use this mark-and-execute. It's a terrible gamey feature I wish they had not included. If I want to execute dudes I'll do it the old fashioned way. I wish it could be disabled but luckily so far I have just not used it and it's been fine.

It is disabled in Perfectionist mode.

 

[Rawket Lawnchair]

A fantastic game. It's a shame it did not meet Ubi's expectations (unless they were set too high?). Hoping for a sequel, the ending is very open.

 

[IvorB]

It is disabled in Perfectionist mode.

Yeah I saw that. I am playing on realistic at the mo'. I thought about going perfectionist but, as I have never played a Splinter Cell game before, I decided against it. Maybe I will bump up after a while but I am finding the difficulty quite nice where I am.

 

[cackhyena]

I'd rather earn a return on the key and make back some of that money I put in on my GPU. Plus, as I said in that post: I've got too many other games to play atm anyways.

As someone who didn't hate Conviction, but knew it was relative trash in comparison to the king, CT, I'm telling ya you're missing out. It's much better than you think it would be.

 

[Sojgat]

You can mark and execute them from behind though, he'll grab the armored/helmet enemy, kill the other ones you marked and then finish them off.

Yes, killing in motion, drop down on them from above, head shot with sleeping gas arrow, etc. So much combat flexibility in the game, so many things to experiment with. There is no one single way to do anything.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Yeah I saw that. I am playing on realistic at the mo'. I thought about going perfectionist but, as I have never played a Splinter Cell game before, I decided against it. Maybe I will bump up after a while but I am finding the difficulty quite nice where I am.

Fair enough, sir. I went in to the deep end off the bat... which'll likely end in frustration, broken controllers and tears XD

Question: Do sleeping gas arrows have an Area of Effect? Can I, say, strike a wall and take out a couple of guards or do I have to hit someone?

 

[Sojgat]

Fair enough, sir. I went in to the deep end off the bat... which'll likely end in frustration, broken controllers and tears XD

Question: Do sleeping gas arrows have an Area of Effect? Can I, say, strike a wall and take out a couple of guards or do I have to hit someone?

You pretty much have to hit the target you want to knock out, so even if there are two guys standing right next to each other it's an arrow for each... or just fire a bunch and pray. Headshot guys with helmets and it will knock them off and put them to sleep before they can raise an alarm. Beware of enemies in hazmat suits, gas will not phase them and only get you spotted.

 

[Screaming Meat]

You pretty much have to hit the target you want to knock out, so even if there are two guys standing right next to each other it's an arrow for each... or just fire a bunch and pray. Headshot guys with helmets and it will knock them off and put them to sleep before they can raise an alarm. Beware of enemies in hazmat suits, gas will not phase them and only get you spotted.

So it's sleeping gas grenades for AoE, sleeping gas arrows for individuals? Thank you, chief.

EDIT: So... do sticky shockers take down the Hazmat guys and do they come in arrow form?

 

[Dance Inferno]

So it's sleeping gas grenades for AoE, sleeping gas arrows for individuals? Thank you, chief.

EDIT: So... do sticky shockers take down the Hazmat guys and do they come in arrow form?

Not true, sleeping gas arrows do have an AOE. In the first level when you come upon the room where you have to clear everyone to rescue Grim's contact, I shot a sleeping gas dart at the floor between two guards who were standing next to each other. They both went down, then when the third guard turned around to investigate I jumped over the counter and subdued him. This was on Perfectionist btw.

I don't think sticky shockers take down the heavies. From what I can tell you have to subdue/kill them by hand from behind or above.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Not true, sleeping gas arrows do have an AOE. In the first level when you come upon the room where you have to clear everyone to rescue Grim's contact, I shot a sleeping gas dart at the floor between two guards who were standing next to each other. They both went down, then when the third guard turned around to investigate I jumped over the counter and subdued him.

I don't think sticky shockers take down the heavies. From what I can tell you have to subdue/kill them by hand from behind or above.

Oh, right! Cool! That's much better then. I rolled a SG grenade in myself. One guy turned, saw me and backed into the cloud, so all three went down. XD Do SG arrows kill people if you hit them?

Right. So, avoid the heavies. Thanks!

 

[IvorB]

Fair enough, sir. I went in to the deep end off the bat... which'll likely end in frustration, broken controllers and tears XD

Yeah I can always ramp up the difficulty if I feel ready .

 

[Dance Inferno]

Oh, right! Cool! That's much better then. I rolled a SG grenade in myself. One guy turned, saw me and backed into the cloud, so all three went down. XD Do SG arrows kill people if you hit them?

Right. So, avoid the heavies. Thanks!

Haha that's hilarious. I've never gotten three people with sleeping gas before. I tried tossing in a sleeping gas grenade but the third guy knew where it came from and came after me. When I shot the sleeping gas dart the third guy didn't hear it bounce in so he wasn't aware that I was in the room... until it was too late.

I don't think any of the arrows kill people. If you hit someone with the arrow it will probably just put them to sleep.

 

[IvorB]

These heavies... how does one handle them? They are always the fly in the ointment...

 

[Screaming Meat]

Haha that's hilarious. I've never gotten three people with sleeping gas before. I tried tossing in a sleeping gas grenade but the third guy knew where it came from and came after me. When I shot the sleeping gas dart the third guy didn't hear it bounce in so he wasn't aware that I was in the room... until it was too late.

I don't think any of the arrows kill people. If you hit someone with the arrow it will probably just put them to sleep.

I do love how the guards react differently every time. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Amentallica]

Didn't this game come out recently? Why are there so many LttP threads? Pretty soon a game is going to come out and then the following day a LttP thread will appear. Shit.

 

[failgubbe]

Really a fantastic game, Singleplayer is alot of fun and even challenging on medium sometimes. Co-op is the best part of the game by far, it's a shame that there aren't more Co-op missions or a Co-op campaign.

 

[Screaming Meat]

(Early level spoiler)

Spoiler

Chicago

felt very old school Splinter Cell.

Also? Crossbow is the single best addition to a Splinter Cell game since Amon Tobin's soundtrack for CT

 

[Dance Inferno]

(Early level spoiler)

Spoiler

Chicago

felt very old school Splinter Cell.

Also? Crossbow is the single best addition to a Splinter Cell game since Amon Tobin's soundtrack for CT

Yeah that level does feel very old school, although I felt like the ending was pretty rushed as it's the only level that has no cinematic when it ends.

I didn't pick up the crossbow until the last few missions, so I made my way through most of the game without it. It does open up a world of possibilities gameplay-wise.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Yeah that level does feel very old school, although I felt like the ending was pretty rushed as it's the only level that has no cinematic when it ends.

I didn't pick up the crossbow until the last few missions, so I made my way through most of the game without it. It does open up a world of possibilities gameplay-wise.

Yeah, I was expecting to have to escape. The design though fooled me into thinking it was a classic SC level. Very impressed.

 

[DryvBy]

Forgive me if I have the wrong idea but is this gif implying that Blacklist isn't stealth?

If so, you may want to notice that it says "detected" flashing in red in the upper portion of the screen. From there, I would assume running and busting down doors would make sense, even in the stealthiest of stealth games, but what do I know.

I'm currently three or four missions in and I like the game a lot so far. I had no problems with Conviction though.

The game rewards you for going Rambo. Yeah, not really a dedicated stealth game. I played on PC and I thought the game felt a little cheap. Character models and guns just felt really arcadey.

 

[Screaming Meat]

The game rewards you for going Rambo.

I agree that this isn't a "pure" stealth game (can't think of many these days that are), but the game doesn't reward you for "going Rambo" anywhere near as much as it does for playing the Ghost track.

 

[DryvBy]

I agree that this isn't a "pure" stealth game (can't think of many these days that are), but the game doesn't reward you for "going Rambo" anywhere near as much as it does for playing the Ghost track.

In the original trilogy, you were rewarded for stealth only. Using a gun was a last resort. My cousin and I played all the co-op missions and I have to say, I didn't feel that you actually benefited from stealth. And as long as I killed a few guys, I got a cheap auto-aim freebie kill every 3rd kill I made. Basically, the opposite of how this series started. The fact that they reward you like they do (which reminded me of the game, The Club) was bad enough.

 

[Screaming Meat]

In the original trilogy, you were rewarded for stealth only. Using a gun was a last resort. My cousin and I played all the co-op missions and I have to say, I didn't feel that you actually benefited from stealth. And as long as I killed a few guys, I got a cheap auto-aim freebie kill every 3rd kill I made. Basically, the opposite of how this series started. The fact that they reward you like they do (which reminded me of the game, The Club) was bad enough.

Yeah, I remember the original games very well, that's what put me off of trying this one for so long.

I've just started this one on Perfectionist (no auto-kill freebie, much more alert guards) and going the ghost track. Ghost grants the most rewards when you don't mess with the guards at all (KOs get you less points than total avoidance). Sam's health is so low on this difficulty that a couple of shots is enough to kill you (like the harder difficulties in the original), so stealth is imperative.

It definitely isn't as straight up stealth as the Splinter Cell of old, but it seems very much like they've made a 'best of' and designed the game so that players can get out of it what they want. Some people wanted Conviction, I wanted old-school Splinter Cell. Surprisingly, they've given me as close an approximation as I'll likely see this gen.

 

[Ashtar]

The game rewards you for going Rambo. Yeah, not really a dedicated stealth game. I played on PC and I thought the game felt a little cheap. Character models and guns just felt really arcadey.

I dunno man I used to kill a lot of ppl in old school splinter cell, to me there was no real benefit to leaving ppl alive so I just killed everyone I came across, it wasn't until this game that I thought that leaving people Undisturbed would be a good idea. I'm not really sure what the reward for going Rambo that you speak of is considering you get less points for killing and a few missions have instant fails if you are detected

 

[Dark Octave]

The game rewards you for going Rambo. Yeah, not really a dedicated stealth game. I played on PC and I thought the game felt a little cheap. Character models and guns just felt really arcadey.

This is just a guess but it's that Ubi and EA streamline (copy and paste) a lot of their processes like models and gameplay systems more than most other companies. Look at their split gen games like, Watch Dogs and AC4, which are nothing more than current gen games with more effects here and there.

I remember back in the day, Ubi made a Splinter Cell game (can't remember the name) that was different on PS2 and Xbox to fit each system's strengths. That all went out the window once some suit mentioned that they wanted to be like EA. Now we get processed, canned games from them.

 

[Dance Inferno]

In the original trilogy, you were rewarded for stealth only. Using a gun was a last resort. My cousin and I played all the co-op missions and I have to say, I didn't feel that you actually benefited from stealth. And as long as I killed a few guys, I got a cheap auto-aim freebie kill every 3rd kill I made. Basically, the opposite of how this series started. The fact that they reward you like they do (which reminded me of the game, The Club) was bad enough.

This game rewards you for any action you take, but the rewards you get for avoiding guards completely is much, much higher than any action that involves interacting with the guards, be it stealthily or loudly.

For instance, leaving a guard undisturbed gives you 175 points. If you kill a guard quietly, I think you get something like 125 or 100 points. And if you go loud, you only get I think 75 points. Now this may seem like a small difference, but keep in mind that you get multipliers to your score whenever you accomplish one of the "metagame" missions that involve snooping around a map and tracking down clues. I currently have my multiplier close to 20x, so the difference between leaving one guard undisturbed and killing that guard silently is (175-125)*20 = $1,000, which is significant. The money you get is used to upgrade your gear and buy new equipment for both single player as well as co-op and multiplayer, so it's not useless currency.

Yes, the game does allow you to play through it as a TPS if you want. Most games these days cater to the shooter crowd, and that isn't going to change anytime soon. However, this game actually has a very competent stealth system that you can use if you so choose. I could totally shoot up everyone in the level, but I don't like playing that way. If I get spotted, I reload the checkpoint and try again. Someone else might find this frustrating, so he is free to play the game differently. I don't see how this is a bad thing, as long as the game doesn't force you to play the game like a shooter.

 

[DryvBy]

This game rewards you for any action you take, but the rewards you get for avoiding guards completely is much, much higher than any action that involves interacting with the guards, be it stealthily or loudly.

For instance, leaving a guard undisturbed gives you 175 points. If you kill a guard quietly, I think you get something like 125 or 100 points. And if you go loud, you only get I think 75 points. Now this may seem like a small difference, but keep in mind that you get multipliers to your score whenever you accomplish one of the "metagame" missions that involve snooping around a map and tracking down clues. I currently have my multiplier close to 20x, so the difference between leaving one guard undisturbed and killing that guard silently is (175-125)*20 = $1,000, which is significant. The money you get is used to upgrade your gear and buy new equipment for both single player as well as co-op and multiplayer, so it's not useless currency.

Yes, the game does allow you to play through it as a TPS if you want. Most games these days cater to the shooter crowd, and that isn't going to change anytime soon. However, this game actually has a very competent stealth system that you can use if you so choose. I could totally shoot up everyone in the level, but I don't like playing that way. If I get spotted, I reload the checkpoint and try again. Someone else might find this frustrating, so he is free to play the game differently. I don't see how this is a bad thing, as long as the game doesn't force you to play the game like a shooter.

I don't remember the mission exactly but either the AI is really bad or the game has been patched since I played. I would stand right beside someone and knock them out in co-op. I never felt like it was a pain to set the alarms off either, even on the hardest difficulty.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Grim's first mission, the Seafort one, is one of the best Splinter Cell levels I've played. For me, it ranks alongside CT's Bank for quality and available options. Really impressed.

Also, had a lot of fun on SvM Classic. Just as nail bitingly good as I remember it.

Currently trying to Ghost through the villa in South America. Any tips for crossing that first courtyard with the dog? I tag him to keep an eye on it so I can keep away, but Sam must be wearing Pepe Le Pew's aftershave or something because that little fucker sniffs me out from miles away.

 

[Serra]

OP reminded me how much I despise "heavies" as an enemy type in most games.