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LTTP - Splinter Cell: Blacklist. Hint: It's much better than Conviction.
- Thread starter Dance Inferno
- Start date
Man, Grim's missions are brilliant. I love working out the optimum routes through them. I've managed to get some pretty nifty completion times on them, too.
For sure. I've just been hitting the Grim missions one after another. Honestly the best thing about them is the "game over" fail state which forces you to play proper stealth. You really can't dick around. The first time I got spotted and I went right back to the beginning of the level I was honestly shocked but then I was like, yeah, I can respect that.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I could do that, I suppose... but that's exactly what Special Mission HQ wants me to do! I won't let that son of a beehatch get the better of me.
BritGAF Unite! If only I had a PS3, broseph...
For sure. I've just been hitting the Grim missions one after another. Honestly the best thing about them is the "game over" fail state which forces you to play proper stealth. You really can't dick around. The first time I got spotted and I went right back to the beginning of the level I was honestly shocked but then I was like, yeah, I can respect that.
I wish there were more of those smaller, self contained stealth missions available. I'm saving the yacht DLC for after I've completed the game. Little treat.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
You are? Sweet. I'll hit you up, man.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Expect a FR from me too.
Maybe the 3 of us can storm some SvM games and wreck stuff up GAF style.Edit: Damn, you're both on England time it seems. :/
Haha yeahhh, that mission is pure evil I tells ya! The next mission is also pretty annoying, but I don't think it's as difficult to ghost.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Expect a FR from me too.
Edit: Damn, you're both on England time it seems. :/
Haha yeahhh, that mission is pure evil I tells ya! The next mission is also pretty annoying, but I don't think it's as difficult to ghost.
I'm a night owl at weekends, so we may be able to get a few games in then, if you're about?
I've got a fairly good route through SMHQ but that damn evasion/evade bug... I'll do some more experiments and see what happens.
Efren is G.O.A.T.
Member
Splinter Cell is one of my favourite franchise and I also didn't like Conviction very much. I thought Blacklist was a nice refresh and very good entry. I bought it on PC and Ubisoft has had many issues with players being able to play online. I haven't even played the SvM or Online Coop yet and still need to finish the single player campaign.
You can add me on Uplay , my username is Jimboone
You can add me on Uplay , my username is Jimboone
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Awesome! I don't think I'm doing anything this Friday (meeting my gf on Saturday so I'm taking it easy on Friday). Maybe we could get some games going?
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Haha sounds good, hit me up if I'm online.
I wish there were more of those smaller, self contained stealth missions available. I'm saving the yacht DLC for after I've completed the game. Little treat.
Yeah I kinda thought most of the missions would be like that. I guess I will do some other missions for a while and savour the Grim missions rather than burning through them. Haven't had a chance to play in a while so hoping to have a nice long session this weekend. Maybe get baked and play the whole of Saturday
.Oh my god, really? You can do that? Would be cool to have a piece of next gen right now but my Dualshocks are part of a bundle. Oh well...
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Maybe get baked and play the whole of Saturday
Hahaha! I tried another stealth speed-run of Special Missions HQ in that 'state' last night. It uh didn't work out. Stoned Fisher is a bumbling idiot.
He he!! Can go either way for me. Sometimes I can find myself in the zone but other times is messes up my sh*t. Maybe it's dose related ha ha!! But for a speed run it could be tricky. Got to take it slow, man.
The Antitype
Banned
Maybe I'm the odd one out in these parts, I find the Panther playstyle more fun than Ghost.
Splinter Cell Conviction had balance problems to be sure (ie, it was basically an action game.... actually, it would have made a damn good Jason Bourne game), but it was probably the first time where Sam Fisher actually felt POWERFUL, as opposed to a fragile old man that stood no chance against even the most standard of soldiers unless he approached completely unseen.
I like Panther style because it allows you to use stealth in an aggressive way, and even if you do get seen at the very last second, you can just gank the dude and move on, nobody the wiser....versus a passive 'please don't see me, please don't see me, I'm so weak, and scared, and if you see me I'm going to die' kind of stealth.
Splinter Cell Conviction had balance problems to be sure (ie, it was basically an action game.... actually, it would have made a damn good Jason Bourne game), but it was probably the first time where Sam Fisher actually felt POWERFUL, as opposed to a fragile old man that stood no chance against even the most standard of soldiers unless he approached completely unseen.
I like Panther style because it allows you to use stealth in an aggressive way, and even if you do get seen at the very last second, you can just gank the dude and move on, nobody the wiser....versus a passive 'please don't see me, please don't see me, I'm so weak, and scared, and if you see me I'm going to die' kind of stealth.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
You just nailed the problem with modern stealth titles; the player should be, in fact needs to be, the weakest character on the board so as to make the reliance on stealth prominent and worthwhile. Fortunately, Blacklist caters for both.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
That's not entirely true. Being able to solo 12 guards is going too far, but there isn't a problem when you're individually more powerful than one or even two enemies. SC3 adding the melee takedowns / knife was a very good change, and in that game you feel competent without being overpowered.
The Antitype
Banned
I disagree with that almost entirely.
I'll use Jason Bourne as an example again, since Splinter Cell is basically just a spy thriller in game form.
Bourne can kick any average CIA agent or operative's ass. He's a badass. But he still uses stealth to his advantage, because he knows as good as he is and as well as he can handle one or two or three dudes, he doesn't want 10, or a dozen or 20 guys coming after him. Because even for him, that's too much to handle.
Stealth games can empower the player and make them feel powerful as they isolate and incapacitate individuals or small groups of enemies, while punishing them for being so overt and sloppy by ensuring an escalation of force that they can't handle.
It is possible to take a powerful character and put them into situations that they still have to be careful in. But any scenario where highly-trained Sam Fisher is unable to knock a generic military thug out cause the guy happened to see him approach at the last second, is a bad game.Those were the bad old days of the original Splinter Cell that Chaos Theory thankfully set us free from.
The Antitype
Banned
Oh, btw, am I the only one who really liked those little Gone Dark mini-missons?
Where they give you clues and you have to figure out what country to look in next for the next lead?
It's a really simple diversion, but it felt like an homage to Where in the World is Carmen Sandiago, only with a military thriller theme.
If they could some how tie those into the main narrative, make the player figure out where the next lead is in order to start the next story mission, that would be pretty cool.
Where they give you clues and you have to figure out what country to look in next for the next lead?
It's a really simple diversion, but it felt like an homage to Where in the World is Carmen Sandiago, only with a military thriller theme.
If they could some how tie those into the main narrative, make the player figure out where the next lead is in order to start the next story mission, that would be pretty cool.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I don't disagree.
To elaborate: The priority of any decent stealth game should first and foremost be about staying hidden, so taking out guards is fine if you are doing so stealthily. Personally, I think that (for a "proper" stealth title) direct confrontation with two or more enemies should be a difficult, hard fought, resource draining experience (if not downright impossible), so as to push the player to rely on subterfuge and hiding (what should be the game's primary mechanic).
I find that the more overt offensive options you give a player that aren't tied directly to stealth end up negating the need for stealth at all, y'know? The knife/melee in CT is a good example of an offensive option that still relies on your ability to remain unseen (although I do remember being able to shank entire rooms of people early on...).
Heeeeeey, I liked the first SC.
What should make Sam powerful (the only thing, IMO) is his ability to hide and therefore surprise his enemies. This is a gameplay concern of mine, rather than a narrative one.
Samir Sedlar
Member
I liked Blacklist, key word here 'like' not 'loved', the game is really good, really fun, and so enjoyable, but it lacks soul to a degree.
First of all this new character is not appealing at all, I used to love Sam Fisher, but this one ?!, I had no connections whatsoever with him, didn't like him at all, truth be told Fisher was ruined by the voice change, heck I enjoyed Fisher in SCC more than in Blacklist, not to mention the writer totally don't get who Fisher is, it is like he is a totally different character with the same name, Majid Sadiq on the other hand is like the shining light in a dark night, his character, voice, actions, top notch, my most fav. character in Blacklist, then comes Kobin, still as good as ever.
The game also suffers from too many forced action sequences, escaping a drone attack through a crumbling building, drone attack in the middle of Tehran, going through a train full of civilians, defend X from enemies, .........etc etc
Aside from that, I think the game is pretty cool, level design was good but the whole forced area after area wasn't, it broke off the levels, it felt like moving from one check point to the next, some levels were really cool and enforced the notion of stealth like London and the bunker level, others not so much.
I am really glad they brought back the dog, introduced a couple of new enemies, it made things different and more exciting, Gas Grenades made one hell of a come back, I loved them in SAR and was happy to see them back in Blacklist.
Charlie's missions are absolutely fun in Co-Op, & Grim's missions are a ghost heaven, though the 2ndary objectives got old really fast, they weren't like CT, they were same in every single level.
I know I seem like bashing the game way too much, but I really enjoyed it, these stuff though made go from an 'amazing' experience to just a 'good' one, I want more from Splinter Cell.
First of all this new character is not appealing at all, I used to love Sam Fisher, but this one ?!, I had no connections whatsoever with him, didn't like him at all, truth be told Fisher was ruined by the voice change, heck I enjoyed Fisher in SCC more than in Blacklist, not to mention the writer totally don't get who Fisher is, it is like he is a totally different character with the same name, Majid Sadiq on the other hand is like the shining light in a dark night, his character, voice, actions, top notch, my most fav. character in Blacklist, then comes Kobin, still as good as ever.
The game also suffers from too many forced action sequences, escaping a drone attack through a crumbling building, drone attack in the middle of Tehran, going through a train full of civilians, defend X from enemies, .........etc etc
Aside from that, I think the game is pretty cool, level design was good but the whole forced area after area wasn't, it broke off the levels, it felt like moving from one check point to the next, some levels were really cool and enforced the notion of stealth like London and the bunker level, others not so much.
I am really glad they brought back the dog, introduced a couple of new enemies, it made things different and more exciting, Gas Grenades made one hell of a come back, I loved them in SAR and was happy to see them back in Blacklist.
Charlie's missions are absolutely fun in Co-Op, & Grim's missions are a ghost heaven, though the 2ndary objectives got old really fast, they weren't like CT, they were same in every single level.
I know I seem like bashing the game way too much, but I really enjoyed it, these stuff though made go from an 'amazing' experience to just a 'good' one, I want more from Splinter Cell.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
I played a few SvM matches this morning before heading out to work and hot damn is this one fun multiplayer mode! I actually started off playing Demolition on Black Ops and got so infuriated with the spawn/camp killing that I turned it off in disgust and put in Blacklist. Then I played some SvM and had oodles and oodles of fun. I find the objective gameplay in Blacklist is a lot more tactical and satisfying than the objective gameplay in most other multiplayer games. Highly recommended.
I don't understand how those work.
Are we meant to scan the map to look for the same shaped landmass? Then what? Is there a scan button? Nothing was explained and I have no idea what I'm supposed to do.
Checking in for Panther style too, haha, I loved being a fast, deadly bastard. When you come around that corner I'm waiting with my knife at the ready.
(-_- )-^
And I rarely say this but I want them to milk this style of SC for sequels and sequels. I don't care if they make no major stylistic or gameplay changes, and just give me more levels. I hate waiting three years for a new SC game and then having it be totally different from what you expected (Double Agent and Conviction I'm looking at you)....
(-_- )-^
And I rarely say this but I want them to milk this style of SC for sequels and sequels. I don't care if they make no major stylistic or gameplay changes, and just give me more levels. I hate waiting three years for a new SC game and then having it be totally different from what you expected (Double Agent and Conviction I'm looking at you)....
I agree with you and I like to play a lethal style of stealth. Especially since the stealth kills on this game are just so amazing. In particular I love the one where he just moves from one position of cover the the other, knifing some dude along the way.
Having said that, I don't really believe in being in a pigeon hole of panther or ghost or whatever. I just do what's required in the situation. If the best action is to take the guys out I'll do it. If it's best to just avoid them then that's what I will do. Sometimes the best kind of guard is a dead one though. One of my favourite things is almost getting discovered and managing to correct the situation with a few well placed shots to the face or a last minute stealth kill. Such a rush...
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
For me, I'm just glad we don't have to kill people. I prefer to take the no-kill option when a game caters for it. I've been treating the campaign (so far) the same way I did Grim's missions: finding the fastest, optimum path of least resistance, hopefully without disturbing anyone. I get my own rush from passing by guards and them not having a clue. I guess that's why I'm having so many issues perfecting Special Mission HQ; so many scripted encounters.
Of course, I'll give Panther style a go once I've done the campaign. Gotta see those kill animations at some point
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
You're supposed to use the text to try to figure out which country has the next clue. For instance, if you're in Africa and it says the bad guy sailed west, maybe you go looking around South America for the next clue. You just move the cursor around the map and if you're near the next clue it will automatically show up on your map.
Yeah I'm totally OK with them using this exact same gameplay style for the next few Splinter Cell games. I've always been a huge MGS fan but this iteration of SC has officially cemented Blacklist as my favorite stealth game ever.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Finally beat Special Mission HQ on Ghost/Perfectionist without getting stupid Panther points for evasion. I did have to knock out one dog, unfortunately, but at least I can move on now...
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
That dumb dog at the very end?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Yup. He found my arrival positively... Shocking. Yeah, I went there.
Funny thing I noticed:
if you manage to escape the ambush without being spotted, taking down any guards and without restarting the checkpoint, you get awarded the Ghost points, but it doesn't come up with the indicator at the bottom of the screen.
NullPointer
Member
So, in a week or so I will no longer have a 360, where I've done most of my gaming and all of my Splinter Cell Blacklist action.
Should I pick up Blacklist for my PS3? Or hold out for a possible PS4 version?
I'd assume next gen versions were always in the cards. Is that more or less likely considering the game's sales? Any thoughts?
Should I pick up Blacklist for my PS3? Or hold out for a possible PS4 version?
I'd assume next gen versions were always in the cards. Is that more or less likely considering the game's sales? Any thoughts?
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
LOL. Such bad puns.
I didn't realize that. What if you restart the checkpoint? Do you not get ghost points?
The game didn't do great on current gen systems which have a large install base, I doubt they will spend the money to port it over to next gen.
That being said, I will be the first to pre-order a next gen Blacklist. If I ever get around to building a gaming PC the first thing I will do is play through Blacklist on max settings.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
If it's good enough for Bond...
If you restart the checkpoint and do the same thing, you get Panther points. You'd have to KO everyone to get the Ghost points but end up with significantly less.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
If it's good enough for Bond...
If you restart the checkpoint and do the same thing, you get Panther points. You'd have to KO everyone to get the Ghost points, which'd affect the amount you end up with.
What the... That's weird.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Special HQ is a little bit buggy methinks.
NullPointer
Member
I think I'll try to hold out. I can't speak for the actual size of the stealth+Splinter Cell audience out there, but this is a great Splinter Cell and the game deserves a second chance to find out.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
I just got home from work, gonna make myself some dinner then hop onto Blacklist on XBL. If anyone wants to get some SvM or co-op games going hit me up!
CloakedPuppet
Member
Just got the Wii U version this week and am really enjoying it. There's a great balance of the older and newer mechanics as well as various ways to approach the levels. Very good stuff!
The Antitype
Banned
No, no, you read the little briefing at the beginning and look for key words. Could be a name, a language, a place (city, landmark, etc), something that sounds like military parlance (maybe military parlance in a different language, etc). Then you just drag the cursor over to the country of origin for that phrase/language/place/military group/historical figure.
If you hover over the right place for half a second, the next icon will pop up.
I didn't know what I was supposed to do either, until I recognized the name of a South American landmark, and then when I put the cursor over the city in Peru, the next one popped.
The Antitype
Banned
Also, for anybody that has mastered Ghost style on perfectionist, how have you been dealing with dogs.
It was pretty easy in panther style. I just shoot the fuckers or sticky-shocker them.
The game TELLS you that you can distract them using noise-makers, but I'm on the mansion level in the opening courtyard, and let me tell you, that fucking dog could not be less interested in any of the sticky shockers I throw to try and get him to move.
He also has an annoying habit of barking at me from clear across the map, with none of the usual sniffing-and-gradual-approach.
It was pretty easy in panther style. I just shoot the fuckers or sticky-shocker them.
The game TELLS you that you can distract them using noise-makers, but I'm on the mansion level in the opening courtyard, and let me tell you, that fucking dog could not be less interested in any of the sticky shockers I throw to try and get him to move.
He also has an annoying habit of barking at me from clear across the map, with none of the usual sniffing-and-gradual-approach.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Decided to finally pop in my Wii u version while I wait for my ps4 to arrive. Haha, I'm terrible at it. Still, its a pretty thrilling ride so far. So many options I'm glad for the gamepad screen and controls
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I had EXACTLY the same question at the top of the last page. You don't need any devices.
I found (with Sojgat's advice) that I wasn't staying far enough away from the dog (and I was pretty far away from that damn dog). The dog circles that low wall it starts near. Tag it and wait for it to reach the end furthest from you (near the jeep). Stay close to the right hand wall and circle around as it does. There will be a guard near the jeep but he's easy to avoid, whilst the dog should be headed back to it's starting point as you reach there. Slip past the guard and hey presto!
Did that make sense? Hope it helps. The dog you encounter later is the real problem...
I hate that damn dog by the pool, I ended up shocking him when he almost found me.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I hate the fact that his placement is so random.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Good games on Friday, Meat. I don't know why the game had so much trouble keeping us online and on the same team. Anyway I had fun, although that last game was kind of annoying since our team was just soooooo baaaaad and your team was soooo goooooood haha.
I played some more games yesterday and I had a fantastic game - 25 kills/8 deaths, with I think only 1 or 2 of my deaths coming as a merc. I was spotting spies and shutting them down instantly, it was pretty exhilarating. I'm still trying to figure out what the best vision mode is for spies. The thermal is great since it shows merc positions in real time, but it's only in a short radius. The electronic vision mode shows mercs from a further distance, but if there are electronics in your radius then you can't see the mercs through them. It's kind of annoying. What are your guys' setups?
I played some more games yesterday and I had a fantastic game - 25 kills/8 deaths, with I think only 1 or 2 of my deaths coming as a merc. I was spotting spies and shutting them down instantly, it was pretty exhilarating. I'm still trying to figure out what the best vision mode is for spies. The thermal is great since it shows merc positions in real time, but it's only in a short radius. The electronic vision mode shows mercs from a further distance, but if there are electronics in your radius then you can't see the mercs through them. It's kind of annoying. What are your guys' setups?
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Just tried playing some SvM Classic. It's fun but I feel like it's biased towards the spies, since it's hard for mercs to know where the spies are located and the mercs' flashlights give away their position very quickly. Still, it's much more tense than SvM Blacklist.