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LTTP: The Witcher 3, or everything a fantasy RPG should be (Mark spoilers)

Finished Titanfall 2 last night and had been planning to play The Witcher next. However, after stumbling on this thread decided to get the books and wait a little longer before playing.

I also have The Witcher 2 and never played it. Should I bother with it? Did it age well?

P.S. Just finished the first story of the first book with the Striga and it was awesome.
 

Mareg

Member
I thought I could stomach the open world but I just can't. The game overwhelmed me very quickly.
I have strong ocd problems and I could never play that game. I just feel like I miss everything.
 
Finished Titanfall 2 last night and had been planning to play The Witcher next. However, after stumbling on this thread decided to get the books and wait a little longer before playing.

I also have The Witcher 2 and never played it. Should I bother with it? Did it age well?

P.S. Just finished the first story of the first book with the Striga and it was awesome.

Back in 2011 The Witcher 2 was one of the graphically most impressive titles. It lost most of its glamour now of course but it still looks really pretty. Also I like its plot more than that of Wild Hunt. It mainly deals with politics and racism and serves as a prequel to the events of The Witcher 3. It's certainly worth playing and it's also not that long, like 25 hours.

Also the first Witcher game is worth playing. The combat is rather rough (it's rhythm based) but the story and atmosphere are excellent. Here is the intro video to the original Witcher game. You should recognize it, hehe. This one takes 40-50 hours.
 

TheYanger

Member
I wouldn't feel bad about skipping 1 or 2. They're both significantly different from 3 and while the stories aren't bad, the games themselves are a major amount worse.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I love when people have a bunch of hours in Velen and are all "Gosh this game is huge!".
 

PFD

Member
I'm doing just that at the moment. I beat The Witcher like 4-5 years ago, and immediately started on TW2 after it. However back then my computer wasn't strong enough to run TW2 properly. I tried starting playing it couple times after, but for some reason never got farther than the start of Chapter 1. One of the reasons definitely was that I didn't like the controls at all with M&K.

I never uninstalled it though and so it has been sitting installed in my Steam library for years now. Recently saw TW3 GotY for 25 euros and ordered it. Didn't want to play it before finishing TW2 though. So I plugged in in my PS4 controller, and found out TW2 is really made for playing with controller. So much better than M&K. Now I'm good ways into Chapter 2,
#teamroche by the way,
and I'm absolutely loving the game. Can't believe I had game this good just waiting to be played. Already planning a second playthrough just to see what would have happened differently if I had chosen to help
Iorveth
.

TW2 has also aged really well, not that it is that old game anyway, but playing it has made me think that it would be a perfect candidate for PS4/XB1 HD release. Especially since it was never released on PS3.

Edit: Does 3's start immediately spoil 2 btw? Kinda itching to give 3 little try to see how it looks and plays.

The Witcher 2 is an awesome game, definitely worth playing twice to get the full story
 

Ultimadrago

Member
The Witcher 2 is an awesome game, definitely worth playing twice to get the full story

Yep, I played through both sides. I wasn't expecting to, but with Witcher 3 on the horizon I decided to go down
Roche
's path on the second playthrough and ended up preferring it over
Iorverth
's. I certainly liked the idea of playing through both once I did it, but I'd recommend a bit of space between each go.

The antagonist of Witcher 2 is also certainly my favorite from The Witcher trilogy.
 

Berksy

Member
Bought this yesterday. At first i was like "why is the map so small?" but then i was like "THIS NEW AREA IS GIGANTIC"

Also i suck at being a Witcher.
-doesnt take money from villagers playing the white knight (always poor)
-got excited in timed choice sequence and bowed before emperor (not cool)
-got owned timed after time by a pack of wolves (weak)
-got played bu a wraith & let her kill a man and go free (stupid)
-done a sorceress' handiwork for literally free (at least i got laid)
 
Back in 2011 The Witcher 2 was one of the graphically most impressive titles. It lost most of its glamour now of course but it still looks really pretty. Also I like its plot more than that of Wild Hunt. It mainly deals with politics and racism and serves as a prequel to the events of The Witcher 3. It's certainly worth playing and it's also not that long, like 25 hours.

Also the first Witcher game is worth playing. The combat is rather rough (it's rhythm based) but the story and atmosphere are excellent. Here is the intro video to the original Witcher game. You should recognize it, hehe. This one takes 40-50 hours.




Thanks for the well thought reply. The video was awesome and exactly like the story. It was really cool! I'll definitely try the Witcher 2 first.
 
No, not everything an RPG should be. It's hardly even an RPG in my eyes as it barely allows for role-playing as it forces combat as a resolution. What a role-playing game should allow for is charismatic or cowardly solutions, and not force the player into a single role/character.

Hopefully CDPR will make an actual RPG with Cyberpunk.
 
No, not everything an RPG should be. It's hardly even an RPG in my eyes as it barely allows for role-playing as it forces combat as a resolution. What a role-playing game should allow for is charismatic or cowardly solutions, and not force the player into a single role/character
An RPG absolutely doesn't have to do that. Not being like a Skyrim or Baldur's Gate doesn't make it not an RPG or a bad RPG. You're playing as a defined character and making choices and actions as such. That's infinitely more engrossing and engaging than being a blank slate
 
An RPG absolutely doesn't have to do that. Not being like a Skyrim or Baldur's Gate doesn't make it not an RPG or a bad RPG. You're playing as a defined character and making choices and actions as such. That's infinitely more engrossing and engaging than being a blank slate

Then it's not a good RPG. You can't ignore the Role-Playing part of it and call it a good RPG. It can still be a great game yes, but not a good RPG. If 'playing as a defined character' and 'making choices and actions' can qualify an RPG then I know a number of visual novels that you can call an RPG.

Edit: And you don't have to be a 'blank slate'. Hell, you're not even truly a blank slate in Skyrim. The game still forces you into playing the hero in a main storyline. Far from the freedom and nature of traditional tabletop RPG. It's why I mod the hell out of Skyrim to remove all that nonsense and just play the game as a person living in it, rather than some boring savior.
 
I love when people have a bunch of hours in Velen and are all "Gosh this game is huge!".
That was me, certainly.

I had no fucking idea.

I'd have been satisfied with just Novigrad and its surroundings. As it is it took me over six months to play through the main story, with at least half the map in each region unexplored. Its mindboggling.

No, not everything an RPG should be. It's hardly even an RPG in my eyes as it barely allows for role-playing as it forces combat as a resolution. What a role-playing game should allow for is charismatic or cowardly solutions, and not force the player into a single role/character.

Hopefully CDPR will make an actual RPG with Cyberpunk.
Sometimes you do have the opportunity to avoid combat, either through direct choices (including not taking actions) or mind control.
 
Then it's not a good RPG. You can't ignore the Role-Playing part of it and call it a good RPG. It can still be a great game yes, but not a good RPG. If 'playing as a defined character' and 'making choices and actions' can qualify an RPG then I know a number of visual novels that you can call an RPG.
Absolutely. STALKER is a role playing game as far as I'm concerned.

And it is role-playing. As Geralt.
 
Sometimes you do have the opportunity to avoid combat, either through direct choices (including not taking actions) or mind control.

Yeah, but can you complete the game as a pacifist? If the answer is no then the needle is not anywhere near the "everything a RPG should be".

Absolutely. STALKER is a role playing game as far as I'm concerned.

And it is role-playing. As Geralt.

Haven't played STALKER so I couldn't say. But if 'you role-play as <character>' is enough to define a 'role-playing game' then RPG is rather a meaningless descriptor don't you think?
 
Yeah, but can you complete the game as a pacifist? If the answer is no then the needle is not anywhere near the "everything a RPG should be".
So if a game doesn't let you play how you want, regardless of character and story, it's not an RPG?

Oh whoopee you get to be a kind asshole vs. a not so kind asshole

yay
Pretty much. I want more games like that. The need to make quests approachable from so many builds and options really hurts the kind of quality quests you can do.
 
I just wish Geralt's swords didn't clip through the boat when taking the helm.

I just wish they didn't make a huge island region if they weren't going to make sailing the least bit fast or engaging.

They also downgraded the shit out of the water before release.

Edit: I mean I guess my complaint is moot because they created a giant landmass and the horseriding sucks too ;) At least it's faster and not as empty.
 
Haven't played STALKER so I couldn't say. But if 'you role-play as <character>' is enough to define a 'role-playing game' then RPG is rather a meaningless descriptor don't you think?
Pretty much. I'll take the broad as possible umbrella with myriad subgenres and formats than the narrow "it must have this, this, and this, or else it isn't an RPG" any day
 
Then it's not a good RPG. You can't ignore the Role-Playing part of it and call it a good RPG. It can still be a great game yes, but not a good RPG. If 'playing as a defined character' and 'making choices and actions' can qualify an RPG then I know a number of visual novels that you can call an RPG
It's not unheard of to have even tabletop games that have very limited character roles to choose from.

TW3 just takes that further and straps you into a single character and asks you to role-play that specific individual as you see fit.
Oh whoopee you get to be a kind asshole vs. a not so kind asshole

yay
This is literally how many RPGs end up anyways.
Haven't played STALKER so I couldn't say. But if 'you role-play as <character>' is enough to define a 'role-playing game' then RPG is rather a meaningless descriptor don't you think?
It's an increasingly useless term because most games have RPG-lite features these days anyways.
 

Dunlop

Member
Just starting the base game (that I purchased a while ago) is the DLC meant for after you beat the story misson or should I pick any of them up?
 
Pretty much. I'll take the broad as possible umbrella with myriad subgenres and formats than the narrow "it must have this, this, and this, or else it isn't an RPG" any day

Then you lose value in labeling something an RPG. I mean... just think of music. You can label like dozens of distinct music as 'electronic', but if you say 'this is the perfect electronic song' then fans of various sub-genres are going to disagree because it's not their particular sound. This is why things like JRPG and ARPG and Tactical RPG exist. To separate out distinct characteristics. They each focus on a different thing, whether it be mechanical or character.

It's not unheard of to have even tabletop games that have very limited character roles to choose from.

[...]

It's an increasingly useless term because most games have RPG-lite features these days anyways.

True, to the first point, yet also false because you're only being constrained by the system you dictate. Just because the game doesn't have <x role> built in does not mean a group can't implement it.

And I agree to it becoming a useless term. Which is part why I disagree that Witcher is 'everything an RPG should be'. It's not. Maybe it's everything a great Open World Action Combat RPG should be. But not what every RPG should be.
 
And Fallout's is?

For what it's worth I don't think whether you can be a pacifist or not is the best indicator of an RPG, but...
Fallout is a jack of all trades RPG. You can pretty much play any build without much consequence, even if that kind of character and choices don't exactly fit the tone and world

Compare that to Age of Decadence, where you have to absolutely commit to a role and play towards its strengths or face the consequences
 

Mifune

Mehmber
Let's see. You do quests. You level up your character. You level up your skills. You explore a vast fantasy world. You collect loot.

How is this game not an RPG again?
 
The Witcher's world isn't fit for pacifists.

Didn't say it was. Witcher world is perfect for an action combat game. Which is what Witcher is to me before it's an RPG.

Let's see. You do quests. You level up your character. You level up your skills. You explore a vast fantasy world. You collect loot.

How is this game not an RPG again?

There are TableTop RPG (you know, what 'RPG' comes from) that don't implement half the things you mentioned yet are more RPGy than Witcher.
 

Exentryk

Member
Once I get a 4K tv, I'll go through this game again and try out the alternative outcomes for the quests.
Such an amazing game! Every single location is breathtaking in its own way.

1435148500-w3-forest.gif


1450096985-witcher-stlm2.gif


1428677532-witcher-gif.gif
 
So how do you guys tend to play? I finished the last main quest for Velen before Destination: Skellige, do you tend to stay in Velen doing all the quests your level can handle, or move on and then come back after the end?
 
True, to the first point, yet also false because you're only being constrained by the system you dictate. Just because the game doesn't have <x role> built in does not mean a group can't implement it.

And I agree to it becoming a useless term. Which is part why I disagree that Witcher is 'everything an RPG should be'. It's not. Maybe it's everything a great Open World Action Combat RPG should be. But not what every RPG should be.
Sure, but then we're getting into the significant difference between a tabletop and video game RPG.

A tabletop RPG has no technical limitations, it's only dictated by the amount of time you have and how good your imagination is. You can add whatever you want at no cost. Video game RPGs are always going to have systems with hard-coded limitations to how much freedom you get.
So how do you guys tend to play? I finished the last main quest for Velen before Destination: Skellige, do you tend to stay in Velen doing all the quests your level can handle, or move on and then come back after the end?
I tended to do whatever quests most interested me and moved on. If I got stuck (happened maybe once) or bored somewhere else (happened maybe a few times), I'd go back and do other quests.
 

Ultimadrago

Member
So how do you guys tend to play? I finished the last main quest for Velen before Destination: Skellige, do you tend to stay in Velen doing all the quests your level can handle, or move on and then come back after the end?

I personally stick around for all of the Contracts and remaining voiced side quests (that I happen upon) before heading off to a major new area. For me it's like wrapping up loose ends and ensures I get the most out of what I'd consider a major chapter for Geralt before another begins.
 

Exentryk

Member
So how do you guys tend to play? I finished the last main quest for Velen before Destination: Skellige, do you tend to stay in Velen doing all the quests your level can handle, or move on and then come back after the end?

I go to all new locations as soon as possible and visit all noticeboards first. Then once I've got all the quests, I work through them based on level.

I also prioritize visiting all the places of power as soon as possible to open up more build possibilities.
 

Pilgrimzero

Member
So I tried Witcher 1 awhile back and couldn't get into it. Just didn't like the gameplay.

Assuming I try 3, do I need to play 1 and 2 to get the story?

Would it be like jumping to Mass Effect 3 without 1 and 2?
 
So I tried Witcher 1 awhile back and couldn't get into it. Just didn't like the gameplay.

Assuming I try 3, do I need to play 1 and 2 to get the story?

Would it be like jumping to Mass Effect 3 without 1 and 2?
I think you can play 3 without playing either 1 or 2. That's what I did.

I read a few things like Kotaku's Witcher Primer and I basically felt set to go. There's actually just enough complexity to the stories that you might want to read a primer to brush-up anyways. I think they're perfectly approachable though if you're willing to put in a little effort to understand who people are.

More_Badass is playing the series for the first time as well and he seems to be enjoying it!
 

Ultimadrago

Member
So I tried Witcher 1 awhile back and couldn't get into it. Just didn't like the gameplay.

Assuming I try 3, do I need to play 1 and 2 to get the story?

Would it be like jumping to Mass Effect 3 without 1 and 2?

I've been following the series since the first, so I played through all three, but you don't need to for narrative reasons. The underlying story thread is very detached between the titles and even personalities change considerably (like Triss from Witcher 1 to Witcher 2/3).

You can really just jump into 3 if it'd be most convenient for you. You're caught up on most of the characters fairly. Note that the meat on a few recurring characters from Witcher 2 are bare in Witcher 3 for lack of focus.
 

Mifec

Member
So how do you guys tend to play? I finished the last main quest for Velen before Destination: Skellige, do you tend to stay in Velen doing all the quests your level can handle, or move on and then come back after the end?

I 100% Velen(minus the new Hearts of Stone area) then go to Skellige. Then once I'm done with all the board quests and hunts in Skellige I go back to Velen for the story. I'm the kind of person who can't get burnt out on The Witcher 3 because no game released this gen comes even close to it. Hell Blood and Wine is better than any single game released this year.
 
So I tried Witcher 1 awhile back and couldn't get into it. Just didn't like the gameplay.

Assuming I try 3, do I need to play 1 and 2 to get the story?

Would it be like jumping to Mass Effect 3 without 1 and 2?
I never played 1 and 2 and I'm loving 3. While there are some character reveals and interactions don't have the same impact without the backstory, the characters and stories themselves are enjoyable and engrossing
 

Trojan

Member
Finished the Ugly Baby quest last night. Holy shit, this is my Game of the Generation. I don't want it to end.

I picked the game up again recently after putting in about 60-70 hours but got distracted by work. I restarted right about where you are and there is A LOT of game left for you still. Like I'd say you're not even 2/3 of the way through.
 
And I agree to it becoming a useless term. Which is part why I disagree that Witcher is 'everything an RPG should be'. It's not. Maybe it's everything a great Open World Action Combat RPG should be. But not what every RPG should be.

I'd argue that the phrase should stop at "Maybe it's everything a great Open World Action game should be," considering the combat is merely a decent way to pad the time between narrative moments and the RPG elements along side the actual roleplaying, e.g. leveling, loot, customization, are either threadbare or just poorly designed. Mechanically, The Witcher 3 is a mess; however, much like Skyrim (though in a slightly different fashion), it's a mess that can still be fun. Certainly enough fun to ferry you through its well-crafted narratives.

And like I said earlier, I think we need a different name for the kind of game The Witcher 3 is. It's not an RPG, and unless people are deliberately trying to spark the ire of "traditional" RPG fans (though, I shouldn't need to call them that, as if roleplaying is some sort of outdated game mechanic for crotchety conservative grandparents), it's not very productive to call it one. It, like many other games these days, is another genre of game with narrative choice added on top. It's done quite well; better than probably any other not-so-RPG I can think of, but that doesn't change the fact that The Witcher 3 isn't designed like an RPG.

The overt mechanical incarnations of the genre (loot, leveling, skills, economy, etc.) are basic, broken, or otherwise uninspired, the narrative and character premise is designed to be author-driven rather than player-driven, and the necessary architecture for a true RPG simulation is wholly lacking. The Witcher 3 simply can't be an RPG. The player can bend and divert from the game's drive, but they can never drive themselves. That's not a condemnation of The Witcher 3. Through it's own drive and its own narrative, the game achieves an emotional weight and a compelling pace that any true RPG could only dream of achieving. I would hope that "it's not an RPG" would stop being seen as some kind of insult. It's not. It's an assessment, and hopefully one that can remain meaningful. Proper roleplaying still seems to be a desirable feature, and it's annoying that the only descriptor for it doesn't necessarily indicate its presence.

What is a condemnation of The Witcher 3, however, is my belief that it isn't very well designed. Much like the original Mass Effect (though to a somewhat lesser extent), The Witcher maintains a number of RPG vestiges that not only seem to make the game more awkward to play but probably detracted from the game's focus as well. For a game that's not much of an RPG, it certainly falls for many of the genre's worst tropes. I didn't need a bunch of +5% skills to scan through, nor the cumbersome and quite limiting level system that frame them. I didn't need a bunch of +3% loot to replace my recently acquired quest rewards, nor the repetitive POI that house them. I didn't need a pointless economy to slog through and ultimately break, nor the awkward fights and races, endless gathering and selling of loot, and annoying item degradation. I would have preferred a tighter game: an action game with slick progression and no BS. Maybe time spent on an excess of activities could have been invested in making the detective mechanics more varied or the boss fights more interesting.

Ultimately though, The Witcher 3 works as a product. Not because it's mechanics are especially innovative or robust, but because they are accommodating, unobtrusive and standard enough that they do not detract from the game's engrossing atmosphere. I genuinely don't believe it's what any game should be. Not on the whole. I would hope that more games attempt to have half this game's atmosphere. We need more games with worlds so compelling that they truly deserve to be explored and certainly more games with the narrative competence to actually do the exploring, but from a design standpoint, we, as consumers, should expect better. Not just "good enough given its scale" or "acceptable within its genre" or "fine to progress the story," but holistically designed games with singular, well-realized visions.
 
I picked the game up again recently after putting in about 60-70 hours but got distracted by work. I restarted right about where you are and there is A LOT of game left for you still. Like I'd say you're not even 2/3 of the way through.
Great to hear. Getting to Skellige seemed like it would be entering the third act, so it sounds like I have much more to go
 

Exentryk

Member
I recommend doing the expansions at the end, so you have a continuous link while playing those sets of quests. The levels for those are also 30+, so they're meant to be done at the end anyway.
 

Trojan

Member
I never played 1 and 2 and I'm loving 3. While there are some character reveals and interactions don't have the same impact without the backstory, the characters and stories themselves are enjoyable and engrossing

Witcher 2 hooked me on the series hard. Never played the first game but the world in two was so well-realized and the story content is authentic. The Witcher games know what they are and they don't shy away from that.

I also completely agree on having a defined character protagonist vs. the player's own projection. It allows the writers so much more leeway to create an intricate and coherent plot. Plus Geralt is such an interesting character who has to find a balance between honoring Witcher traditions, being a pragmatic problem-solver, and carefully weaving through politics (despite his disdain).
 

Mifec

Member
Great to hear. Getting to Skellige seemed like it would be entering the third act, so it sounds like I have much more to go

When you think you're done(with the regular game not expansions) the game is probably gonna last you another 6-10h rofl. You'll see what I mean when you get to it.
 

Trojan

Member
When you think you're done(with the regular game not expansions) the game is probably gonna last you another 6-10h rofl. You'll see what I mean when you get to it.

This is exactly what I'm going through right now haha. The best part is that the additional sections are all really well-written and unique so it's like having a 15-hour blockbuster ending. So glad I picked up playing again so I could see how it ends.
 

killroy87

Member
For anyone that has played both (for whatever reason), can you give me a non-hyperbolic comparison of the visuals on the PS4 compared to the PC?
 

Trojan

Member
For anyone that has played both (for whatever reason), can you give me a non-hyperbolic comparison of the visuals on the PS4 compared to the PC?

From comparison footage, PS4 is basically medium settings on PC with 30 fps, although the frame rate still dips in busier areas. Regardless, it's still one of the most beautiful console games out there. I have a pretty powerful rig but I haven't regretted playing on PS4 much.
 
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