Where's your evidence that "kids love it"? Also I'm pretty sure I remember reading even kids hated jar jar. And I've never seen a single toy around today. In fact when I look it's either the OT or EP7.
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Lucas is a stubborn prick
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ryutaro's mama
Member
Not a given.
It was, however, a perfect storm for SW (perfect release window, putting the band back together for the first time in 32 years, Lucas shackles off and nostalgia focused tested without a whole lot of risks taken) and it was the 3rd best performing movie all time.
Gold, er I mean Bronze Star for them.
RareFantasy64
Member
He's not perfect but I love George Lucas
exactly
the disney marketing machine would make the original, unaltered trilogy look like the greatest thing ever. "The way you REMEMBER seeing it. HAN SHOOTS FIRST. The Academy Award Winning practical effects. For a limited time, the ORIGINAL Star Wars trilogy, with a gorgeous collectors box."
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Most people who post on Gaf (going by Gafs target demographic) were kids or early teens when EP 1 came out and most of them hate it. I know I was 12 and I hated it. It almost completely lacks the nostalgic reaction most people have to things they enjoyed as children.
Some of the smaller changes in the special editions work out okay, namely ones you barely notice because they're FX tweaks that are done well (like a better looking sandcrawler) or a few bits of readded footage, but the vast majority only serve to hurt the movie.
I think the Jabba scene in ANH would have been a lot better if they had redubbed Ford referring to the guy by a different name and left him human. Just make him an underling of Jabba who's less out for blood than Greedo was.
I think the Jabba scene in ANH would have been a lot better if they had redubbed Ford referring to the guy by a different name and left him human. Just make him an underling of Jabba who's less out for blood than Greedo was.
Lol a perfect release window. They wanted to release in summer originally and it probably would have went even higher on opening weekend. The best December release of all time before TFA was a hobbit movie at 84m. In fact before TFA released people were saying it's doomed because of the time of year it's releasing. Then they realized people are going to see a big SW film no matter what. This was proven again with R1 hitting 155m in the same release window.Not a given.
It was, however, a perfect storm for SW (perfect release window, putting the band back together for the first time in 32 years, Lucas shackles off and nostalgia focused tested without a whole lot of risks taken) and it was the 3rd best performing movie all time.
Gold, er I mean Bronze Star for them.
Sure there wasn't as much competition but do you honestly think if it released in summer other films would have tried competing with it? Financial suicide.
But I guess people will always find a way to downplay a film that pulled an opening of 248m in DECEMBER and 2 bill overall, lol. Unreal.
It could also be that the vast majority of fans love it because it's a good film and that extreme critics are a vocal minority.. but what do I know.
I was a child when I saw EP1's premiere. I walked out almost in tears.
So I can personally vouch that children can hate it, lol.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Stopped reading right there...actually at the Lol but I needed context. There have been several posts, a lot excellently put together by people like kswiss in the box office threads about how the release window in December when coupled by the kids being out of school and the critical acclaim and nostalgia feels made for an amazing series of events. Plus when you look at the landscape of summer vs. December in terms of competition, it was an ideal set of circumstances.
Sure they may have WANTED a summer release originally but December isn't a window where you can't make money.
This was proven by a couple of movies released in 1997 and 2009.
CrichtonKicks
Member
Clone Wars (cartoon) was very popular. Related merchandise probably took up 40% of my daughter's school book fair a few years ago.
The kids are out of school for even LONGER in summer, much longer in fact. I haven't read a single thing that suggests the film would have done worse in summer. Maybe it would have eventually made a little less if there were eventually other summer movies people wanted to see but.. I seriously doubt it would have made significantly less overall. People were going to see this film no matter what and see it a lot.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Dude, movies in summer have all kinds of competition because, there is literally a new big tent experience every week. It doesn't really matter that the kids are out longer. The opportunity for longer legs is smaller because there are lots of things vying for that money.
You are trying to argue that SW might have made more at the BO in summer, in the face of the FACTS that the biggest grossing movies of all time, worldwide, were ALL released in mid-December.
All 3.
And I'm sure it wouldn't have had a better opening than Jurassic World did for a summer release, right? I'm sure it's opening weekend wouldn't have been better than its 248m in December and it wouldn't have had the legs to easily surpass the 1.6 bill JW achieved. It's not just possible in December.
One thing I've apparently heard regarding the theatrical prints of the OT is that they're supposedly in bad shape and that's why they've never been restored. Personally that sounds like a load of bullshit to me that Lucas uses as an excuse, because I have a really hard time believing both LucasFilm or 20th Century Fox would let that happen to some of the biggest movies of all time.
That's anyways raised and eyebrow for me too. Hope George didn't throw them out so no one could restore them, lol.
ryutaro's mama
Member
You are making my point by introducing JW. JW was also a hugely nostalgic trip and made a huge chunk itself. So did Age Of Ultron. I could look at the rest of the movies released in 2015 but my point remains.
SW's huge opening and incredible legs had EVERYTHING to do with it being the only ticket in town, the reuniting of the band after 32 years (as I said) and insane hype and great reviews.
There was NOTHING to compete with it in mid December, period. I would gamble it doesn't open to 248 million if Ultron is still 2 weeks into it's run and JW would have definitely cut it's legs when it came out.
TFA, like Avatar and Titanic before it, ran virtually unopposed into January and beyond.
While I agree with the sentiment that the market for unedited originals is probably overblown, I think it's large enough that it will happen eventually if for no other reason that it would give them an excuse to put out another trilogy/box set that I bet will sell well enough to justify it.
Also as someone mentioned earlier (Bobby?) Disney is pretty big on preservation and has a pretty dedicated group to it and assuming they'd be doing it to these anyway no real reason not to put them out for sale afterwards.
Also as someone mentioned earlier (Bobby?) Disney is pretty big on preservation and has a pretty dedicated group to it and assuming they'd be doing it to these anyway no real reason not to put them out for sale afterwards.
Theatrical cuts of the OT seems like a slam dunk idea because any money you put into it is going to get made up because now Disney has an excuse to release another set of Star Wars blurays plus a potential bundle that includes both the theatrical prints and the updated versions as well.
Plus the National Film Registry, I believe, has a copy of the original movie
Plus the National Film Registry, I believe, has a copy of the original movie
Sapiens
Member
He's not perfect but I love George Lucas
What a troll - a regular SkankHunt42.
Just wait till Avatar 2 bumps TFA out of the Top 3 spot, with that December release. Cameron Da Gawd.
I'll be surprised if this happens, to be honest. There's going to be almost a decade between Avatar and Avatar 2's release date, so a lot of the buzz from the first movie has worn off. Plus time hasn't exactly been kind of Avatar in terms of people valuing its story and characters - and the 3D buzz has worn off.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Cameron released Titanic in 1997 and his record held for 12 years...until he broke it.
Avatar 2 breaking $2B is improbable but not impossible.
The point I was making is that if the JURASSIC PARK brand made 1.6 in summer with competition, imagine what SW would have done. Had it been EP7 instead of JW in that same timeframe, it's unrealistic that TFA would have made 400m more? It's opening weekend alone would have probably hit close to 300m and even if it followed a similar graph it could have achieved 2b.
ryutaro's mama
Member
I know, imagine what it would have done releasing on Memorial Day, smack in the middle of summer!!! You are assuming that the competing movies would have just crumbled and SW would have just owned all their monies. That isn't how the summer movie market works. JW wasn't gonna be an instead of. They blocked in their June release long in advance. MAYBE Ultron moves but I doubt it. It certainly wouldn't move outside of summer altogether.
1) there is ZERO precedent for your scenario, zero involving a SW movie released in it's Memorial Day weekend time slot. Episode 1 had way more hype coming in and the universal backlash wasn't immediate and even it dealt with summer movie competition legs erosion.
2) as I said, explain why the Top 3 movies of all time have a mid December release window in common, and why not one of those Top 3 films was a summer release? Why they all had similar dynamics of running unopposed through December, January and most of February) and made gobs of money?
ryutaro's mama
Member
"And then they said....you're doomed by releasing in December!"
You can add Peter Jackson to that post too, Solo.
Disney pioneered making gobs of money by releasing in December, confirmed.
Star Wars and Avatar are on a completely other level above what the Jackson middle earth films were doing in December.
â Narayan
Member
You might want to look into Harmy's Despecialized Edition. Seriously impressive work.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Naw, really? Don't forget Titanic, which is ahead of SW.
Doesn't change the fact Jackson released his flicks there and made gobs of the moniez.
DISNEY FIGURED OUT THE CHEAT CODE BEFORE EVERYONE ELSE
You don't think TFA would have made significantly more than JW had they been switched? Or that JW world have made significantly less than TFA if it had its December release date?
I understand that the top 3 films all have December releases but I think you're seriously underplaying the power of the SW franchise.
Had TFA released under the same circumstances add JW I'm sure it would still be top three, beating out JW because of the hype EP7 brought. 1.6+ in summer is nothing to scoff at when looking at the all time list. And it surely would have beaten that.
Beer Monkey
Member
Folks, on the outside chance that Lucas really, really did destroy the original negatives and interpositives (he didn't), there are other elements available to do an HD remaster. In this era, films get restored using collector prints and other extant prints if the original elements aren't available. Amazing work can be done this way.
When the time is right to milk that cow, you'll get your original editions in HD.
When the time is right to milk that cow, you'll get your original editions in HD.
ryutaro's mama
Member
It's like you ignored half my post.
SW movies released in the summer had to deal with erosion, no matter the quality. It's where all the studios stick their tent poles. That is what you were arguing. Not if SW released in June and JW released in December...to that point, I think JW receipts go up a bit and SW drop a bit. THAT DOESN'T MEAN I think SW makes $1.6B and JW makes $2B.
You think SW still does $2B if it is released Memorial Day weekend?
Y/N?
If your answer is Y, then ask yourself why insane numbers like TFA never happened (even when adjusted for inflation) with ANY other SW film, including the insanely hyped Episode 1 AND why Disney IMMEDIATELY moved Episodes 8 and 9 to mid December.
I don't think I ever said it would make more overall, just that I do think it would have been even more heavily front loaded if JW was able to achieve 208 and that it still would have had fantastic legs. It still would be a top three film if it released in JW's window (including JW's numbers). It was an unintentional release window and just so happened to open with no competition. TFA was originally supposed to open in summer and got delayed. It was originally a worse window because it wasn't intended that way, but turned out to be fantastic.
But my original point was that you were scoffing at a film that brought in 2b and passed it off as a success based on circumstance. If it would have been akin the quality we saw with the PT, do you think it would have made even close to 2b? That's where I was originally going with my post. It was received well by critics and fans alike, unlike the PT which was pretty much immediately thrashed by fans aside from some positive reaction to the visuals.
The hyper criticism is a loud minority and TFA's massive success was much more than circumstantial.
Neff
Member
We'll never know just what he signed on. But it's obvious to anyone that Disney needed Star Wars more than Lucas needed to sell it to Disney. I don't doubt for a minute that Lucas had a lot of leverage in his negotiating corner, and considering his steadfast refusal to acknowledge the initial cuts of the OT with any kind of reverence, and his frustration at their perceived inadequacies, then I'd expect his (no doubt incredibly extensive) contract to reflect that.
Honestly, I think if Disney did have the opportunity to release the originals, they'd have jumped at the chance already.
I'm almost convinced he also negotiated that Disney couldn't remake the prequels either.
Also, the summer window is getting crowded. You can't give Star Wars 4000 opening screens if say Avengers is coming out 2 weeks after that and also demands 4000 screens.
Dumb comparision because they are both DIsney but tentpoles don't like to fight each other that's why the flags are planted so far in advance and there's only so many screens to go around.
That's not to take into account that there's so many of them that there's a finite amount of films that the average person wants to go watch.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Literally, the other two movies ahead (like TFA) of it were:
Well received; had insane word of mouth
Well reviewed
Released in mid December
Ran unopposed for 2+ months
You have zero circumstances that support your hypothetical.
I, on the other hand, am providing prescendent (3 separate instances) for why it was a perfect storm for them.
This is more in line with what I'm thinking. You can make arguments either way, but I think EP7 was unprecedented in expectations and hype after the disappointment of the prequels. I'm not too sure if other studios would want to stand in its way.
I mean you can't blow open the box office more than a movie that's expected to be the Jesus of the SW universe.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Talk to Disney, not Lucas. He is a stubborn prick but he has no say in it anymore. (right?)
The Clone Wars.
I have nostalgia for the original portrayal of ghost Anakin, because ROTJ is my favorite of the series, but it makes sense to change him. How would his ghost figure out what he would have looked like if he had never been Vader? It makes sense for it to revert to the form it had the last time it was good.
molnizzle
Member
It'll make sense if they get Hayden Christensen to do some reshoots in 15 years or so. Right now it still looks silly.
The last time he wasn't Vader was just before the Death Star went kaboom.
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