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Malaysia Airlines flight en route from Amsterdam shot down over Ukraine; no survivors

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User 100115

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I've never seen the whole stopping thing. Is that something that happens in America?
In some of the more rural places in America, it's custom to pull to the side of the road when a funeral procession goes by, kinda like how you do for emergency vehicles.
 
Oct 13, 2012
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I've never seen the whole stopping thing. Is that something that happens in America?
Where I grew up, rural Texas, you pull over when you see a funeral procession and put your lights on as a show of respect. I am sure it isn't as prevalent as it was when I was young.
 

FyreWulff

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fyrewulff.com
I've never seen the whole stopping thing. Is that something that happens in America?
I've never heard of this happening and I'm from America. There's cars that block traffic so everyone can get through an intersection at once, and generally anything you would stop for normally (emergency vehicles, schoolbusses) does not apply with a divided median

It's probably a regional thing
 

antonz

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May 12, 2010
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Australia has announced it will be sending 100 Police and soldiers to assist in securing the crash site.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/reuters-australia-to-send-100-extra-police-troops-to-ukraine-357878.html

Important Lobbying group in Germany that had been resistant in past now said they will support stronger sanctions against Russia.
http://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/deutschland/cordes-will-sanktionen-mittragen-deutsche-wirtschaft-fordert-haerte-gegen-putin/10247446.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
 

brian577

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antonz

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Because the separatists are going to be reasonable and go along with this? Is Australia crazy? This is just going to get people killed and cause an international incident.
Netherlands has announced they are sending 40 Police/Military. I think you can call this Australia and Netherlands calling Russia's hand. Russia will either have to fold or risk a major escalation.

Honestly this is the language Putin speaks and understands the best.
 

brian577

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Netherlands has announced they are sending 40 Police/Military. I think you can call this Australia and Netherlands calling Russia's hand. Russia will either have to fold or risk a major escalation.

Honestly this is the language Putin speaks and understands the best.
At this point I wouldn't put anything past Putin. This is a bad idea.
 

MJLord

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Mar 18, 2010
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Because the separatists are going to be reasonable and go along with this? Is Australia crazy? This is just going to get people killed and cause an international incident.
Y'know more than a passenger plane being shot down did.
 

CTLance

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I don't think the international community is willing to compromise on this. The Netherlands will send their own 40-strong group and have pointedly recalled/barred military staff from holidays. I think all non-separatists hope that flooding the area with their people in excess of 10:1 to separatists will have the latter shut up, stand back and let them do their thing. It's a risky move, but hopefully it will work out.
 

MJLord

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Are 400 lives worth risking a war?
Not at all, I wasn't even going there.

With every country watching that particular part of the world though I find it hard to believe it would escalate over the couple of km the crash site rests in though.
 

Trokil

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Jan 4, 2011
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These Russian separatists man...
According to an article dutch phone companies had to cancel subscriptions of victims because looters were using their phones. They also had problems with credit cards of victims, because they were used after the crash.

Pretty sad story.
 

Osiris

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Jul 23, 2010
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Im glad Holland and Australia are sending police/military to help secure the crash site. Britain should also.
We are, along with Germany and Malaysia in addition to Netherlands and Australia.

The US has also offered troops for this group, which is being called the "Coalition of the grieving", however the Dutch, who are leading this have said that they won't be required at the moment.
 

antonz

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Next Wave of EU Sanctions being announced today. 15 more people added to blacklist and sanctions targeting 18 entities apparently

@SpiegelPeter 17m
The 15 new names & 18 new 'entities' for #EU's #Russia sanctions list to be published by end of day, says #Ashton spokeswoman.
 

Zaph

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Jun 19, 2010
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We are, along with Germany and Malaysia in addition to Netherlands and Australia.

The US has also offered troops for this group, which is being called the "Coalition of the grieving", however the Dutch, who are leading this have said that they won't be required at the moment.
Good. I guarantee there won't be a single incident, Putin must know those five states are testing him. Kinda glad the they refused help from the US too, don't think they can be completely trusted to follow the Dutch lead.
 

Alucrid

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May 30, 2009
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Good. I guarantee there won't be a single incident, Putin must know those five states are testing him. Kinda glad the they refused help from the US too, don't think they can be completely trusted to follow the Dutch lead.
Do you think all Americans all rootin-tootin wild west cowboys or something?
 

| Praxis |

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Feb 14, 2010
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The billionaires in Russia aren't happy I can tell you, and guess what, Putin needs them.
I have been listening to experts for days on newsnight and the regular news saying how these sanctions are the very least they could be doing. I don't pretend to know what the right response is, but if you have all of these so called experts saying these are more or less meaningless then I think it says a lot.
 

Nyx

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I have been listening to experts for days on newsnight and the regular news saying how these sanctions are the very least they could be doing. I don't pretend to know what the right response is, but if you have all of these so called experts saying these are more or less meaningless then I think it says a lot.
What would you suggest then?
 

dejay

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Mar 27, 2007
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Most of the Australians will be federal police, some probably armed, some not. There might be a "small" deployment of soldiers as well. This isn't meant to be a military exercise and they shouldn't be seen as an invading force.

It's wise not to ask for US assistance at this stage, not because they're cowboys, but because there would be too much potential for tension and mistrust.
 

Zaph

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Do you think all Americans all rootin-tootin wild west cowboys or something?
Nope, but I am close to quite a few former RAF servicemen who all seem to share the opinion that when part of a coalition force, the US chain of command does exactly what it wants to do, when it wants to do it, regardless of who's officially leading the operation - often causing confusion and unnecessary tension.
 

TarNaru33

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Dec 13, 2013
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Most of the Australians will be federal police, some probably armed, some not. There might be a "small" deployment of soldiers as well. This isn't meant to be a military exercise and they shouldn't be seen as an invading force.

It's wise not to ask for US assistance at this stage, not because they're cowboys, but because there would be too much potential for tension and mistrust.
I think U.S troops being there would just increase tension due to Russian-U.S rivalries. Nothing more or less.

Good. I guarantee there won't be a single incident, Putin must know those five states are testing him. Kinda glad the they refused help from the US too, don't think they can be completely trusted to follow the Dutch lead.
Sure bro. If U.S sends troops it will most likely have to agree to Ukrainian and if part of the coalition, coalition's lead and rules no matter what. There is no issue with "trust to follow".

Nope, but I am close to quite a few former RAF servicemen who all seem to share the opinion that when part of a coalition force, the US chain of command does exactly what it wants to do, when it wants to do it, regardless of who's officially leading the operation - often causing confusion and unnecessary tension.
How high in the chain are you talking and what coalition are they referring to? Because I believe their opinion is false.

In almost all coalitions involving U.S, U.S was the lead, so of course they are going to do what they feel needs to be done.

So now that the investigation is on the way, I wonder what punishments the rebels will receive for shooting down the airliner.
 

Joey Fox

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Feb 25, 2009
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So now I'm reading that Russia is firing artillery into Ukraine.

If I'm running the American military, I would sabotage those mistrals before they change hands into the Russians. I'd much rather go to war with France than Russia if they don't like it.
 

ShinHayase

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Jan 26, 2007
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Damn,

I can not believe the cars on the other side of the freeway are not stopping to show respect. Weird.
You know time is not stopped in that picture right?

The cars in the picture on right side are traveling at about 100 to 120 KM/H and are just seeing the hearses for perhaps a few seconds.
As you can see, the cars further down the right road are indeed stopping as many, many did along the road.
 

Alx

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Jan 22, 2007
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Seriously, stopping on the highway is very dangerous. Showing respect is nice and all, but the last thing we need is more casualties.
 
Aug 24, 2012
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The Dutch and Australian special forces are currently preparing to leave for eastern Ukraine to secure the crash site. About 50 unarmed Dutch police officers and 100 unarmed Australian officers will be tasked with securing the site, and somewhere between 50-200 special forces soldiers will accompany them for protection.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2014/07/dutch_commandos_poised_to_leav.php

According to another article about the Australian forces, they will be ordered to only fire if fired upon.

So what happens if the rebels attack them? I imagine the undercover Russian soldiers would be ordered to avoid a situation, but the harder-to-control cossacks could conceivably do something stupid.
 

commedieu

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Jan 10, 2009
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The Dutch and Australian special forces are currently preparing to leave for eastern Ukraine to secure the crash site. About 50 unarmed Dutch police officers and 100 unarmed Australian officers will be tasked with securing the site, and somewhere between 50-200 special forces soldiers will accompany them for protection.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2014/07/dutch_commandos_poised_to_leav.php

According to another article about the Australian forces, they will be ordered to only fire if fired upon.

So what happens if the rebels attack them? I imagine the undercover Russian soldiers would be ordered to avoid a situation, but the harder-to-control cossacks could conceivably do something stupid.
something stupid like shooting down a commercial air line. I think its safe to say they are fully capable of dumb. And no one to answer to... immediately..
 
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