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[entremet]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/u...ackage-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

MILWAUKEE — Four barbers and a firefighter were pondering their future under a Trump presidency at the Upper Cutz barbershop last week.

“We got to figure this out,” said Cedric Fleming, one of the barbers. “We got a gangster in the chair now,” he said, referring to President-elect Donald J. Trump.

They admitted that they could not complain too much: Only two of them had voted. But there were no regrets.

“I don’t feel bad,” Mr. Fleming said, trimming a mustache. “Milwaukee is tired. Both of them were terrible. They never do anything for us anyway.”

“I’m so numb,” said Jahn Toney, 45, who had written in Mr. Sanders. He said no president in his lifetime had done anything to improve the lives of black people, including Mr. Obama, whom he voted for twice. “It’s like I should have known this would happen. We’re worse off than before.”

But Mr. Obama did do something important: “He did give black people something to aspire to. That’s a lot. I’m happy my son was able to see a black president.”

Mr. Fleming, 47, who has been trimming hair, beards and mustaches for 30 years, had hoped his small business would get easier to run. But it hasn’t.

“Give us loans, or a 401(k),” he said, trimming the mustache of Steve Stricklin, a firefighter from the neighborhood. His biggest issue was health insurance. Mr. Fleming lost his coverage after his divorce three years ago and has struggled to find a policy he could afford. He finally found one, which starts Monday but costs too much at $300 a month.

“Ain’t none of this been working,” he said. He did not vote.

 

[Grexeno]

Well don't come crying to me in 4 years.

 

[wenis]

well maybe trump will help out.

 

[richiek]

“I don’t feel bad,” Mr. Fleming said, trimming a mustache. “Milwaukee is tired. Both of them were terrible. They never do anything for us anyway.”

FUCK THIS SHIT.

 

[collige]

This is why you don't take voters for granted. "We're not Republicans" is not good enough.

 

[Chumly]

Honestly it's hard for me to care for people like this. The whole boo hoo nobody ever does anything for me is just sad. Guess what's..... it's only going to get worse and don't come crying to the rest of us when it does

 

[perfectchaos007]

Is this nihilism or apathy?

 

[Beer Monkey]

We get what we deserve.

 

[entremet]

Is this nihilism or apathy?

The article is focusing on a heavily Democratic district, but turnout wasn't that great for the GOP either. Romney got more votes than Trump.

 

[Velcro Fly]

I got nothing for people who didn't vote. Even if you don't vote for president there are tons of local and state elections where you can vote for great people who want to change things.

 

[Akuun]

The level of disconnect here is probably one reason why Trump won.

A lot of potential voters just don't have the education or the attention span to understand big issues, or track which policies or programs actually benefit or hurt them. It's much easier to vote based on shitty soundbites and mindless meme spam, even if they made no sense, and Trump had plenty of those to appeal to his base.

 

[WiiredShawn]

Having a person in the White House who might, at worst, do nothing for you is "the same thing" as having a gangster who will, at best, do nothing for you?

I understand their disenchantment, but c'mon.

 

[MHWilliams]

As I pointed out elsewhere, the article shows a whole bunch of reasons for the lack of a vote.

That article is all over the place, pointing to many of the issues.

Economic

“Give us loans, or a 401(k),” he said, trimming the mustache of Steve Stricklin, a firefighter from the neighborhood. His biggest issue was health insurance. Mr. Fleming lost his coverage after his divorce three years ago and has struggled to find a policy he could afford. He finally found one, which starts Monday but costs too much at $300 a month.

Sexual Politics

“If I would have voted, I would have voted for [Trump],” said Andre Frierson, 40, a security guard working the evening shift at Jake’s. “From a business perspective, I loved him.”

As for Mrs. Clinton, “other countries probably wouldn’t have respected us because we had a woman running the country,” he said.

Anger

One exception was Justin Babar, who said he voted for Mr. Trump as a protest against Mrs. Clinton. He blamed her husband’s policies for putting him in prison for 20 years.

As for the claims of racism that have dogged Mr. Trump, Mr. Babar wasn’t so worried. “It’s better than smiling to my face but going behind closed doors and voting against our kids,” he said.

Trust (Or Celebrity?)

Mr. Pfeiffer’s grandmother, an avid supporter of Mrs. Clinton, spent months trying to convince him to vote for her. But he could not get over his revulsion at what he saw as trust issues related to the Clinton Foundation. (Mr. Pfeiffer’s grandfather pushed him toward Mr. Trump, but he found him even less appealing.)

He thought Oprah Winfrey would be a good candidate.

“Hey, would you vote for Oprah Winfrey?” he said in a loud voice to a line of customers.

“Yeah, I’d vote for her,” said Erin Miles, 41, a financial services worker waiting for her sandwich. “She has a level head and decision-making skills.”

Apathy

“He’s going to mess with us on some racist level,” said Otis Jackson, 45, a barber who did not vote. “He’s already appointed a known racist,” he said, referring to Stephen K. Bannon, Mr. Trump’s chief strategist and the former head of Breitbart News, which has been denounced as a white nationalist hate site.

With so many people sitting in his chair over the years, Mr. Fleming has developed a keen sense of where society is headed. But now he is stumped.

“This was a weird election,” he said, holding a set of clippers and looking pensive. “You can’t tell what’s on people’s minds. There are less cars out there. No one wants to come out. No one knows what comes next.”

I remain utterly perplexed because as always someone actively working against you is always worse than someone who is neutral. Weird, but the forest gets lost among the trees sometimes.

 

[HStallion]

Don't expect anyone to care about you anymore by not voting. What backwards ass thinking. You reap what you sew or the lack there of.

 

[TAJ]

Enjoy Trump, guys.

 

[Sephzilla]

Wisconsin's fucking heel turn continues

 

[Soleil rouge]

This forum really underestimated how indifferent, or dissatisfied minorities were towards Hillary.

 

[entremet]

The level of disconnect here is probably one reason why Trump won.

A lot of potential voters just don't have the education or the attention span to understand big issues. It's much easier to vote based on shitty soundbites and mindless meme spam, even if they made no sense, and Trump had plenty of those to appeal to his base.

Frontline has had an awesome series this year on the Middle Class squeeze.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/investigation/how-the-deck-is-stacked/

Unfortunately, I don't think Hillary hit those notes.

 

[Sblargh]

These are the People y'all should be paying attention to and talking to.
You can write off Trump voters as a lost cause, not these ones.

 

[soco]

Sexual Politics

Calling that "sexual politics" is insanely generous.

 

[Boney]

I respect that. Donny tiny hands might lead us to the brink is extinction but voting against a person is not something that could be seen as self serving in a subjective way. Voting for a system that has stepped over you because fascism is bollocks, especially since people here are gonna blame them for Trump.

 

[PaulCRose]

There's a whole lot here than dismissing it and saying "enjoy Trump."

When it doesn't matter if Trump or Clinton is in power, America overall have failed people.

I hope Democrats can figure out how to reach more people and show how they're a truly better alternative using populist language, rather than saying they're not Trump.

 

[How About No]

Wisconsin's fucking heel turn continues

I need out of here

I am so dippasoint of us

 

[TAJ]

There's a whole lot here than dismissing it and saying "enjoy Trump."

When it doesn't matter if Trump or Clinton is in power, America overall have failed people.

It does matter. These guys are about to find out how much.

 

[Desi]

Read this earlier. They also mention the smug liberal attitude as a reason to not vote.

Another article today from the NYTIMES is about Richard Rorty's book "Achieving Our Country"

 

[jroc74]

“I’m so numb,” said Jahn Toney, 45, who had written in Mr. Sanders. He said no president in his lifetime had done anything to improve the lives of black people, including Mr. Obama, whom he voted for twice. “It’s like I should have known this would happen. We’re worse off than before.”

I think he needs to remember Bill Clinton created at least one govt agency that created jobs. And that agency employed a shit ton of Black ppl. We were all contractors but still. A job is a job.

And Obama made it easier for ppl to get hired in the federal govt. That was a huge hurdle for POC that was lifted. IIRC he did away with the KSA part of the application process and made it so a regular type resume was all that was needed. No more federal job formatted one.

 

[entremet]

I think he needs to remember Bill Clinton created at least one govt agency that created jobs. And that agency employed a shit ton of Black ppl. We were all contractors but still. A job is a job.

And Obama made it easier for ppl to get hired in the federal govt. That was a huge hurdle for POC that was lifted. IIRC he did away with the KSA part of the application process and made it so a regular type resume was all that was needed. No more federal job formatted one.

I find that politics is an eternal sales pitch. I already do it as a career and can't imagine doing that and running a country on top of it.

 

[Sephzilla]

I need out of here

I am so dippasoint of us

When we didn't kick out Scott Walker I knew this state was going in a bad direction

 

[PaulCRose]

It does matter. These guys are about to find out how much.

If you're at the bottom already having more crap piled on isn't going to make much of a difference.

 

[MHWilliams]

Calling that "sexual politics" is insanely generous.

I was going as vanilla and dry as possible with the topic titles.

There's a whole lot here than dismissing it and saying "enjoy Trump."

When it doesn't matter if Trump or Clinton is in power, America overall have failed people.

Sadly, it really does matter. A broken leg is bad, but losing one entirely is worse.

 

[TAJ]

If you're at the bottom already having more crap piled on isn't going to make much of a difference.

There's no such thing as bottom.

 

[tuxfool]

If you're at the bottom already having more crap piled on isn't going to make much of a difference.

You can always get more crap piled on top of you, and it does feel worse. These idiots have convinced themselves that they're the lowest of the low. They're about to get disabused of that notion.

 

[RDreamer]

The reality is that Obama probably hasn't helped them. Can you really blame them for not wanting to take hours out of their time to wait in line and/or possibly pay for an ID to vote for someone that may not be able to help them, too?

That's not to say Obama didn't want to help them. He did, but Republicans pulled out all the stops the wreck anything he could do for 8 goddamned years. That's just very hard to explain to voters that don't have the time to pay attention. When you're struggling with your bills you can't sit and read the news about Mitch goddamned McConnell's number 1 goal. That's just not realistic.

So they're hit with shit like rising insurance costs, but that's because Republicans didn't want to fix Obamacare and states like Wisconsin didn't expand medicare.

Plus for actual race relations Obama's been neutered by the fact that he's a black man. He can barely touch on the fucking subject because of that, unfortunately. He got grilled for even saying Trayvon could be his kid. Imagine if he actually waded into that debate. It'd be brutal.

Then you have the fact that Wisconsin itself is so ridiculously gerrymandered that voting doesn't actually help much. Democrats got more votes in state and Republicans overwhelmingly took the assembly. That's at the state level. Then you add in the fact that at the federal level a similar thing happened where Democrats won more votes to the house overall in some of the elections oner the last few years and yet lost seats.

The whole thing is depressing and it's not a surprise people feel like their vote doesn't matter. It doesn't.

 

[PopeReal]

I really regret that they didn't vote. Look at the group of racists and idiots that Trump is assembling.

And guess what? If they voted for Hillary and she won they could still vote for someone else in 4 years.

 

[timetokill]

I really regret that they didn't vote. Look at the group of racists and idiots that Trump is assembling.

And guess what? If they voted for Hillary and she won they could still vote for someone else in 4 years.

Are you implying that Trump is going to take away their right to vote in 4 years?

 

[Apophenia Overload]

So, just in case commenters didn't actually read the article:

Wisconsin, a state that Hillary Clinton had assumed she would win, historically boasts one of the nation’s highest rates of voter participation; this year’s 68.3 percent turnout was the fifth best among the 50 states. But by local standards, it was a disappointment, the lowest turnout in 16 years. And those no-shows were important. Mr. Trump won the state by just 27,000 voters.

Milwaukee’s lowest-income neighborhoods offer one explanation for the turnout figures. Of the city’s 15 council districts, the decline in turnout from 2012 to 2016 in the five poorest was consistently much greater than the drop seen in more prosperous areas — accounting for half of the overall decline in turnout citywide.

The biggest drop was here in District 15, a stretch of fading wooden homes, sandwich shops and fast-food restaurants that is 84 percent black. In this district, voter turnout declined by 19.5 percent from 2012 figures, according to Neil Albrecht, executive director of the City of Milwaukee Election Commission. It is home to some of Milwaukee’s poorest residents and, according to a 2016 documentary, “Milwaukee 53206,” has one of the nation’s highest per-capita incarceration rates.

These voters are mostly working class black people, not the working class white people that have been in the news a lot lately. So this is more about disillusionment leading to people to not vote for Clinton, not disaffection leading to people to vote for Trump.

 

[MHWilliams]

Are you implying that Trump is going to take away their right to vote in 4 years?

Actually, given the GOP is certain states, this isn't that far off from the truth.

 

[TAJ]

Are you implying that Trump is going to take away their right to vote in 4 years?

He won't have to. There's already plenty of voter suppression fuckery. Imagine what's possible now.

 

[PaulCRose]

You can always get more crap piled on top of you, and it does feel worse. These idiots have convinced themselves that they're the lowest of the low. They're about to get disabused of that notion.

Well hopefully that will give them a reason to vote and hopefully the next Dem nominee will actually campaign in the state.

I know you feel like they're idiots but calling them idiots is part of the problem.

 

[Steejee]

One probably won't improve your life that much, but it wouldn't get much worse either.
The other will probably make your life noticeably worse.

Yeah, exactly the same.

 

[VendettaRed07]

We can't ever nominate someone with such high unfavorables again. Sorry.

 

[What did he mean by this?]

Im gonna be mean. Screw this bullshit article. I refuse to lay any blame on black people for someone losing. The media always forces this bullshit narrative since black people are America's biggest target. Black people are not to blame! Majority of white people voted Trump, go interview some regretful white Bernie or Busters for god's sake.

This is a white supremacist narrative. If only those dumb blacks had voted for Hilary we wouldnt be in this mess, right? Jesus christ, black people by percentage voted for her the most! Leave us alone!

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

This is a bad article.

It's not the black voter's duty to defend this country from white supremacists. It's white voter's duty to reject it.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Im gonna be mean. Screw this bullshit article. I refuse to lay any blame on black people for someone losing. The media always forces this bullshit narrative since black people are America's biggest target. Black people are not to blame! Majority of white people voted Trump, go interview some regretful white Bernie or Busters for god's sake.

This is a white supremacist narrative. If only those dumb blacks had voted for Hilary we wouldnt be in this mess, right? Jesus christ, black people by percentage voted for her the most! Leave us alone!

Here here...

No one wants to talk about the fact that White folk haven't broken Democrat since Goldwater was the GOP nominee in 1964....

52 years the GOP has won the white vote....

 

[Apophenia Overload]

Im gonna be mean. Screw this bullshit article. I refuse to lay any blame on black people for someone losing. The media always forces this bullshit narrative since black people are America's biggest target. Black people are not to blame! Majority of white people voted Trump, go interview some regretful white Bernie or Busters for god's sake.

This is a white supremacist narrative. If only those dumb blacks had voted for Hilary we wouldnt be in this mess, right? Jesus christ, black people by percentage voted for her the most! Leave us alone!

The article doesn't blame black people at all. If anything, you can say the Democratic Party is to blame for failing black people, causing many to not feel like there's any good choice for them.

 

[Guevara]

I feel like the lesson is: you can't scare people into voting;

or maybe: people don't vote "against" bad outcomes, they only vote "for" good ones. Maybe that's because voting itself (registering ahead of time, possibly taking time off, leaving your house, waiting in line) is an affirmative action.

 

[tuxfool]

Well hopefully that will give them a reason to vote and hopefully the next Dem nominee will actually campaign in the state.

I know you feel like they're idiots but calling them idiots is part of the problem.

No, because what will happen is that next time they'll be even less likely to vote. "Politics is so nasty", "it hasn't done anything for us" etc. etc.

 

[FStop7]

"And Don't Regret It"

yet

 

[johnny956]

I got nothing for people who didn't vote. Even if you don't vote for president there are tons of local and state elections where you can vote for great people who want to change things.

It's hard to argue that for someone who feels that no matter who they vote for that they aren't being represented. I don't agree with that thinking but again I'm not a black person who struggles with what they go through on a daily basis

 

[johnny956]

I was going as vanilla and dry as possible with the topic titles.



Sadly, it really does matter. A broken leg is bad, but losing one entirely is worse.

It would be like saying breaking ones ankle is actually better then certain sprained ankles. Breaking an angle can heal faster then a high level sprain