Support NeoGAF

[dramatis]

So, just in case commenters didn't actually read the article:

These voters are mostly working class black people, not the working class white people that have been in the news a lot lately. So this is more about disillusionment leading to people to not vote for Clinton, not disaffection leading to people to vote for Trump.

I think you overlook the voter ID and restrictions imposed on voters in Wisconsin since Scott Walker got in the door. I'm not suggesting that that cost Hillary the election, but rather than it has been an impediment on WI turnout, which might be why turnout is down.

 

[How About No]

Actually, given the GOP is certain states, this isn't that far off from the truth.

Old John Oliver bit on voting access but still very relevant

 

[Desperado]

So, the Dems didn't focus enough on minority voters? I thought we were just saying the opposite?

 

[Apophenia Overload]

I think you overlook the voter ID and restrictions imposed on voters in Wisconsin since Scott Walker got in the door. I'm not suggesting that that cost Hillary the election, but rather than it has been an impediment on WI turnout, which might be why turnout is down.

The article does mention voter suppression. It's just lack of enthusiasm for the candidates coupled with those laws makes people want to go to vote even less.

So, the Dems didn't focus enough on minority voters? I thought we were just saying the opposite?

It's more like, the Democrats didn't focus on the issues that minority voters cared about. Their message to minorities were like, "vote for us because we're not racist", which was like the bare minimum. There was an article somewhere else about how their Latino outreach was mostly on immigration, when many Latino voters cared about other matters, such as the economy.

 

[Father_Brain]

Sadly, many Democrats would rather attack the people interviewed here than accept that voter apathy is merely a symptom.

 

[Trojita]

1. This article is giving a voice to people that normally wouldn't have their voices heard.

2. There isn't only black people mentioned in the article. Though yes, the article takes place from the voices of people in an ignored Milwaukee neighborhood that is mostly poor and black.

3. They are showing that the general apathy in this neighborhood is because of what hasn't been done for them in the last 8 years, the lack of messaging or campaigning in areas like this, and candidates they did not believe in.

 

[borghe]

to be fair.. as someone who lives in metro Milwaukee...... we have a near ungodly inner city. it sits near the top of most lists for a reason :\

with that being said, they are largely stupid about politics. milwaukee is NOTORIOUS for not turning out for mid-terms... yes, even more so than the rest of the country. our governor is GOP... and aside from two terms in the 00s, has been GOP for decades. even though in like 30+ years we've only voted GOP for president twice (Trump and 84 Reagan).

so no, the president has never improved their situation, but people have been trying to tell them for DECADES that it's not the president that is ignoring them. It's our fucking comic villain of a governor who they NEVER show up to elect out.

this state is a nightmare.

if the poor ever actually turned out for mid-terms, we could get rid of fuck stick Walker and maybe improve things (to be fair, our previous and only Dem gov in decades was a moron also.. fml)

 

[entremet]

1. This article is giving a voice to people that normally wouldn't have their voices heard.

2. There isn't only black people mentioned in the article. Though yes, the article takes place from the voices of people in an ignored Milwaukee neighborhood that is mostly poor and black.

3. They are showing that the general apathy in this neighborhood is because of what hasn't been done for them in the last 8 years, the lack of messaging or campaigning in areas like this, and candidates they did not believe in.

Thank you.

This is reporting. It's not an opinion piece or punditry.

 

[mjc]

to be fair.. as someone who lives in metro Milwaukee...... we have a near ungodly inner city. it sits near the top of most lists for a reason :\

with that being said, they are largely stupid about politics. milwaukee is NOTORIOUS for not turning out for mid-terms... yes, even more so than the rest of the country. our governor is GOP... and aside from two terms in the 00s, has been GOP for decades. even though in like 30+ years we've only voted GOP for president twice (Trump and 84 Reagan).

so no, the president has never improved their situation, but people have been trying to tell them for DECADES that it's not the president that is ignoring them. It's our fucking comic villain of a governor who they NEVER show up to elect out.

this state is a nightmare.


if the poor ever actually turned out for mid-terms, we could get rid of fuck stick Walker and maybe improve things (to be fair, our previous and only Dem gov in decades was a moron also.. fml)

Yup. Downtown Milwaukee is one of the worst in the nation when it comes to racial divides and overall progression. The fact that we took Walker to recall and still failed says a lot about the state as a whole. Sucks big time.

 

[MHWilliams]

It would be like saying breaking ones ankle is actually better then certain sprained ankles. Breaking an angle can heal faster then a high level sprain

Is the argument that you feel a Trump presidency is easier to heal from?

I find this tends to downplay how bad government changes can be and how horribly difficult it is to fix them once they've gone far south. (Assuming specific directions in his presidency.)

 

[ghostofsparta]

so fucking frustrating to hear people say "they are both terrible". Even if Clinton was terrible, it's like comparing a storm to a damn hurricane.

 

[RDreamer]

I'm gonna post my own map of Milwaukee and the situation here once again. If you want to ponder why people in the city don't vote, this is part of it:

Those DMVs fucking suck and now you NEED an ID to vote. No get out the vote effort is going to effectively counter that shit.

Yup. Downtown Milwaukee is one of the worst in the nation when it comes to racial divides and overall progression. The fact that we took Walker to recall and still failed says a lot about the state as a whole. Sucks big time.

Walker and the right played that recall fucking perfectly, though. Honestly it was genius. They played it up as a waste of taxpayer money and that you shouldn't recall unless something illegal was done. I knew people who hated Walker and voted for him during the recall because of that. The "democrats are whiny crybabies" messaging has carried them for a while and solidly turned a lot of softer democrats into republicans in this state.

 

[mjc]

Walker and the right played that recall fucking perfectly, though. Honestly it was genius. They played it up as a waste of taxpayer money and that you shouldn't recall unless something illegal was done. I knew people who hated Walker and voted for him during the recall because of that. The "democrats are whiny crybabies" messaging has carried them for a while and solidly turned a lot of softer democrats into republicans in this state.

Definitely, and we saw that sentiment carry through to the Presidential election where Hillary got stomped for the same thing. She didn't offer meaningful alternatives, just took shots at Trump thinking it'd be enough.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

So, just in case commenters didn't actually read the article:



These voters are mostly working class black people, not the working class white people that have been in the news a lot lately. So this is more about disillusionment leading to people to not vote for Clinton, not disaffection leading to people to vote for Trump.

It's also the candidate. Those are people who would have voted if Obama magically could run for a third term, but simply were not impressed by Clinton. The candidate matters, the process matters, etc.

 

[RDreamer]

It's also the candidate. Those are people who would have voted if Obama magically could run for a third term, but simply were not impressed by Clinton. The candidate matters, the process matters, etc.

Again, some of them are even saying that Obama didn't help them, which isn't exactly wrong. Hillary was campaigning on 4 more years of the same. Problem is "the same" on the street level is shitty. "The same" on a larger level is good because what Obama was trying to accomplish was good. What he actually accomplished was less, though, because of obstruction.

I still insist there are two things going on with these voters. 1) They only have time to see the higher level: Vote Obama... nothing changes and 2) Their vote has got exponentially harder to cast as the years have gone by.

 

[TemplaerDude]

This forum really underestimated how indifferent, or dissatisfied minorities were towards Hillary.

The amount of heartlessness on this forum lately, along with the general unwillingness to see anything from any other point of view than their own, is truly saddening.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Honestly it's hard for me to care for people like this. The whole boo hoo nobody ever does anything for me is just sad. Guess what's..... it's only going to get worse and don't come crying to the rest of us when it does

It will get worse, but I'm pretty sure the democratic party isn't going to take these people for granted in 2020. It's a huge gamble they took, but one they felt was necessary.

 

[PopeReal]

Are you implying that Trump is going to take away their right to vote in 4 years?

Not what I meant, but I can see how it reads that way. My bad.

I meant that Hillary could have kept everything pretty much on the rails for 4 years and then they could have another option. I know that isn't the most exciting thing in the world but I think the damage Trump will do will be historic.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Fucking idiots

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Not what I meant, but I can see how it reads that way. My bad.

I meant that Hillary could have kept everything pretty much on the rails for 4 years and then they could have another option. I know that isn't the most exciting thing in the world but I think the damage Trump will do will be historic.

Fleming is 47, and feels "no president in his lifetime had done anything to improve the lives of black people". After 47 years of disappointment, "wait four more years and hope that suddenly things change for no foreseeable reason" is not a suggestion that he is likely to appreciate.

From his perspective, staying on the rails was no longer tolerable. By abstaining, he has demanded that his vote not be taken for granted.

 

[timetokill]

I meant that Hillary could have kept everything pretty much on the rails for 4 years and then they could have another option. I know that isn't the most exciting thing in the world but I think the damage Trump will do will be historic.

I think for a lot of these people, they've just had it. They've had it with waiting. They've had it with the whole system. I'd imagine that after a 8 years of a black president and no visible improvement in their lives, it's pretty much all just hopeless. And it's hard to blame them.

 

[zelas]

These people are idiots. And yet people are still insisting that the "elites" need to listen to them.

Half dont know what they want and the other half cant come up with an answer for how to appease groups across the spectrum other than "both sides are terrible, blow up the system because I cant be bothered to vote more than once every four years." I am now certain that these statements are nothing but an alternate why of saying "I dont understand but I'd rather scream and shout than have someone smarter handle things."

Why don't these writers really press these people to give real answers? Find out for sure that they know how our government works. Ask them why they put a president in shackles then blame him for not stepping all over the Constitution and polishing his crown.

 

[tuxfool]

I think for a lot of these people, they've just had it. They've had it with waiting. They've had it with the whole system. I'd imagine that after a 8 years of a black president and no visible improvement in their lives, it's pretty much all just hopeless. And it's hard to blame them.

I bet they don't remember what the state of the economy was in at the beginning of those 8 years. At some point regardless of the stagnation allowing somebody like Trump to increase inequality (even if he doesn't outright ruin the economy) is not going to help these people, it will make it worse.

They also haven't shown an intent to vote in local elections, which can have much more immediate effects with the right people. In the end they're also enabling pieces of shit like their current governor.

 

[ahoyhoy]

dat w̶h̶i̶t̶e̶ black economic anxiety.

Dems appear to have failed all across the board.

 

[The Faceless Master]

oh, i see it's time to trot out the "low information voters" horse and pony show for this specific article.

 

[ahoyhoy]

I'm gonna post my own map of Milwaukee and the situation here once again. If you want to ponder why people in the city don't vote, this is part of it:



Those DMVs fucking suck and now you NEED an ID to vote. No get out the vote effort is going to effectively counter that shit.




Walker and the right played that recall fucking perfectly, though. Honestly it was genius. They played it up as a waste of taxpayer money and that you shouldn't recall unless something illegal was done. I knew people who hated Walker and voted for him during the recall because of that. The "democrats are whiny crybabies" messaging has carried them for a while and solidly turned a lot of softer democrats into republicans in this state.

It's strange that this piece mentioned the new Voter ID law, but failed to quote anyone negatively affected by it.

Hopefully Dems don't put all their eggs in this basket again in 2018 and do more to actually get those who are registered to show up and vote.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Nevermond, didn't mean what i meant

 

[studyguy]

Depressing the vote tactics seems to have worked soundly. I can't begrudge people who felt shunned but at the same time apathy works against an individual till it becomes a vicious cycle of ignoring things getting perpetually worse. All in all I just find it unfortunate that so many people across the board felt left behind in one way or another.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

so fucking frustrating to hear people say "they are both terrible". Even if Clinton was terrible, it's like comparing a storm to a damn hurricane.

She's so far from terrible it's ridiculous. Her policy platform was on point and you just know her cabinet would've been stellar, and there's far more to voting than for purely selfish reasons. I'm not gonna personally benefit much from any presidential candidate, Hillary is personally never gonna go my part of the town but that doesn't mean I ever stay the fuck home or waste it on some write-in. I dunno, people should probably stop parading around their selfishness(or ignorance) as some kind of virtue, because it's the exact opposite. An ultra conservative Supreme Court awaits.

 

[Apophenia Overload]

I don't think these folk care, given that a non-ultra-conservative Supreme Court didn't really help their interests, as working class minorities living in an impoverished and neglected area.

 

[freeofgreed]

These are the People y'all should be paying attention to and talking to.
You can write off Trump voters as a lost cause, not these ones.

Yup, responses in this thread are downright embarrassing. Democrats absolutely dropped the fucking ball here.

 

[timetokill]

I bet they don't remember what the state of the economy was in at the beginning of those 8 years. At some point regardless of the stagnation allowing somebody like Trump to increase inequality (even if he doesn't outright ruin the economy) is not going to help these people, it will make it worse.

They also haven't shown an intent to vote in local elections, which can have much more immediate effects with the right people. In the end they're also enabling pieces of shit like their current governor.

To the poor, "the economy" doesn't even include them. It's code for Wall Street and bankers and big corporations. It's a completely different world from where they're at. You can't go to these communities and tell them the DOW is up.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

I didn't vote and don't regret it. That could obviously change, but it remains to be seen.

 

[Permanently A]

We get the world we deserve.

 

[hodayathink]

If we're being 100% honest, though, Hillary wouldn't have done much of anything for them for the same reason that Obama didn't, because a Republican controlled House wouldn't have let anything through, and that probably wouldn't have changed until 2020 at the earliest (if we're being super-duper honest, losing this election is/was probably the only hope that Democrats have of taking the House before then, even though that chance is somewhere between slight and miniscule).

Though, outside of that, it just pains me to see how many people out there on both sides of the political spectrum see things getting done/not getting done and immediately blame it on the president, like Congress doesn't even exist to these people.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

We get the world we deserve.

But fuck that. You don't deserve this. I don't deserve this. My children don't deserve this. We need to do better by any means possible. Now is the time.

 

[Amalthea]

So when there are only candidates who will do nothing FOR them they let just the candidate who will do most ill TO them get elected. Brilliat logic, yuuge, tremendous, bigly even!

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Yeahhh I felt like there wasnt anyone out there like last couple times. They wasnt giving a fuck and you could tell at the polls

 

[Laughing Banana]

so fucking frustrating to hear people say "they are both terrible". Even if Clinton was terrible, it's like comparing a storm to a damn hurricane.

She's so far from terrible it's ridiculous. Her policy platform was on point and you just know her cabinet would've been stellar, and there's far more to voting than for purely selfish reasons. I'm not gonna personally benefit much from any presidential candidate, Hillary is personally never gonna go my part of the town but that doesn't mean I ever stay the fuck home or waste it on some write-in. I dunno, people should probably stop parading around their selfishness(or ignorance) as some kind of virtue, because it's the exact opposite. An ultra conservative Supreme Court awaits.

I think your are mistaking their inaction to vote for the candidate that you want--Clinton--as caused by their dislike towards Clinton. I think that inaction is caused more because they feel like the government has failed them and what it seems like to them the complete divorce of the attention of those in power to their plight.

Remember, the fact that they didn't vote also means that they didn't vote for Trump.

To that end, well, do you feel that their complaints have no merits at all? In that the government has done jack all to help their situation?

 

[Suikoguy]

Yup, responses in this thread are downright embarrassing. Democrats absolutely dropped the fucking ball here.

What did you want them to do?

Seriously, list something.

It's so easy to say, "oh they fucked up, those stupid fuckers!" but nothing is ever suggested as to what they should have done.

The degree of minority outreach by Clinton was greater than any Democrat before, to the point where it hurt her among White Diet-Racists.


Secondly, the article did a poor job looking at the difficulty of voting and how it effected the people interviewed.

I think your are mistaking their inaction to vote for the candidate that you want--Clinton--as caused by their dislike towards Clinton. I think that inaction is caused more because they feel like the government has failed them and what it seems like to them the complete divorce of the attention of those in power to their plight.

Remember, the fact that they didn't vote also means that they didn't vote for Trump.

To that end, well, do you feel that their complaints have no merits at all? In that the government has done jack all to help their situation?

Not voting is a surefire way to be ignored.
You are leaving your small part of one of the keys to power on the table, and doing nothing with it.

So when there are only candidates who will do nothing FOR them they let just the candidate who will do most ill TO them get elected. Brilliat logic, yuuge, tremendous, bigly even!

I'm sure they are going to love the National Stop Minority People and Frisk them campaign.
I can empathize with difficulty voting, but not apathy, not this election.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Not voting is a surefire way to be ignored.

Well, they're not voting because they feel like they're being ignored, even by the supposedly "good guys".

Were they being ignored?

 

[Suikoguy]

Well, they're not voting because they feel like they're being ignored, even by the supposedly "good guys".

Were they being ignored?

Clinton was accused of Ignoring WWC voters this election, it's been the never-ending narrative. Now she is being accused of ignoring the minority vote?

For fucks sake.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Clinton was accused of Ignoring WWC voters this election, it's been the never-ending narrative. Now she is being accused of ignoring the minority vote?

For fucks sake.

Sheeeeeeshhhh, like I said before it's not about Clinton at all! It's about the government that these inactive voters felt ignoring them! And that's why they didn't vote for BOTH Clinton or Trump!

If they hate Hillary, surely they would actually go out to vote for her opponent? But they didn't.

Maybe they felt like the government, including the supposedly "good guys", were ignoring them and blind to their plights, causing their apathy to rise. Now, do you see any merits in that view or not?

 

[Suikoguy]

Sheeeeeeshhhh, like I said before it's not about Clinton at all! It's about the government that these inactive voters felt ignoring them! And that's why they didn't vote for BOTH Clinton or Trump!

If they hate Hillary, surely they would actually go out to vote for her opponent? But they didn't.

Maybe they felt like the government, including the supposedly "good guys", were ignoring them and blind to their plights. Now, do you see any merits in that view or not?

Which party was in charge at state level, and failed to expand medicaid at the state level to intentionally fuck over Obamacare?
Which party has had the House for many years now and blocked every single bill at a Federal level?
Which party abused standard decorum to make every bill require 60 votes in the Senate?

Edit: It's obvious Dems need to abandon standard decorum, because voters just don't give a fuck and did nothing to vote against a candidate who set fire the the entire set of procedures and ethics.
They should be seriously considering an 11th hour push for Faithless electors, as it's exactly what the GOP in it's current form would do in their position.

 

[SapientWolf]

There's a whole lot here than dismissing it and saying "enjoy Trump."

When it doesn't matter if Trump or Clinton is in power, America overall have failed people.

I hope Democrats can figure out how to reach more people and show how they're a truly better alternative using populist language, rather than saying they're not Trump.

I think people are going to change their mind on that.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Which party was in charge at state level, and failed to expand medicaid at the state level to intentionally fuck over Obamacare?
Which party has had the House for many years now and blocked every single bill at a Federal level?
Which party abused standard decorum to make every bill require 60 votes in the Senate?

Well, if the people--minorities, even!--were so apathetic towards the "good guys" that they even don't want to vote them to fight against an entity that would in all sense bring everything even worse, then maybe the "good guys" should look into themselves first as well and figure out what's wrong before lashing out and blaming everyone and consider themselves blameless in the whole matter.

Maybe you're just too angry to do even that. If many people among the "good guys" don't event want to do that, no wonder they're losing the last election in such a comprehensive manner.

 

[Paz]

Republican obstructionists during the Obama presidencies will go down in history as one of the strongest political moves ever made. Creating this much apathy is a herculean feat.

But these folks are about to get a rude awakening when under Trump it's not just a case of stand-still, but all out war on their way of life.

 

[Jintor]

Well, if the people--minorities, even!--were so apathetic towards the "good guys" that they even don't want to vote them to fight against an entity that would in all sense bring everything even worse, then maybe the "good guys" should look into themselves first as well and figure out what's wrong before lashing out and blaming everyone and consider themselves blameless in the whole matter.

Maybe you're just too angry to do even that. If many people among the "good guys" don't event want to do that, no wonder they're losing the last election in such a comprehensive manner.

Does this 'excite the base' garbage only happen in America?

Voting is more or less mandatory (and fairly painless) in Australia and it seems to mostly centralise politics (with the exception of refugees since both major parties signed on to the torture-refugees bandwagon)

 

[aygomyownroad]

I have noticed that it has been the lower class/unemployed that has pushed the election to Trump.

Poorer/uneducated/unemployed white people voted for Trump

Poorer/uneducated/unemployed black people didn't turn out to vote in great numbers.

Take away the race and you are left with a section of Americans who are ignored. The only time they are not ignored is if there are riots or occasions like this. If it isn't either coast then might as well not exist.

I hope that Trump improves the lives of these people, if not I hope that the Democrats learn from this and actually engage and try and improve the Americans lives who need improving the most...

$300 a month for Health care. Shit should be free to everyone.

 

[PopeReal]

These lectures from the fence sitters, the both siders, the wait and sees, the above it alls, and the smarter than yous sure are amazing considering the backdrop.

Trump and his neo nazi gang are not even bothering to hide their intentions and your backs are towards them while you educate those who didn't want this.

Lets make a deal. I will register for your upcoming summer course on how to talk to someone who says Obama is a Muslim from Kenya but until then could you maybe look behind you.