RustyNails
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Marihuehuehue
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Marihuana users... read this, please.
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Hungry Ghost
Member
Im from Canada, and all my weed is grown in my city so I think I'm safe.
I understand your point, but being mexican myself, I don't see how a decrease in pot consumption could bring peace to Mexico. Problems in the country are way beyond drugs at this point, I'm afraid.
Don't get me wrong, I also think legalization should be a priority, but the social impact would be minimal considering that quality education (available to mid and lower classes) and stable jobs aren't in the horizon for a while. I think the war on drugs only accelerated the violence and social conflict that was imminent after the brutal mismanagement the country had in the late 80s/early 90s. NAFTA royally fucked up the local agriculture and both PAN periods did nothing to improve the conditions for the lower classes.
In my opinion, the narco "culture" is just a consequence of decades of a useless government, widespread racism and classism among the population and the perception that, no matter how hard you break your ass working and studying, Mexico is the "anti-land of opportunity", creating the shitty mindset that cheating is the only way to success.
Don't get me wrong, I also think legalization should be a priority, but the social impact would be minimal considering that quality education (available to mid and lower classes) and stable jobs aren't in the horizon for a while. I think the war on drugs only accelerated the violence and social conflict that was imminent after the brutal mismanagement the country had in the late 80s/early 90s. NAFTA royally fucked up the local agriculture and both PAN periods did nothing to improve the conditions for the lower classes.
In my opinion, the narco "culture" is just a consequence of decades of a useless government, widespread racism and classism among the population and the perception that, no matter how hard you break your ass working and studying, Mexico is the "anti-land of opportunity", creating the shitty mindset that cheating is the only way to success.
Would it be so shocking? Texas is one of the biggest states with the strongest economies.
Also, there is no real foolproof way to measure the actual amount of narcotics coming in and being grown in America. They have some arcane formula where they base the number off of how much they seize.
vas_a_morir
Banned
In my state, I'd wager 98% is homegrown/domestic. I don't smoke, but I have in the past. Frankly, our stuff is supposed to be world-class.
How big is the marijuana market in the US?
I'm sure there's a ton of it around in SoCal. Its cheaper than the medicinal stuff still. I imagine that most of the people who buy it probably aren't the same types of people that like to spend their time on NeoGAF, though. That stuff is for high school kids and poorer users. Not to say that NeoGAF is a bunch of rich adults, but I think you know what I mean.
Exactly. I'm pretty much in the same boat on this. We're too detached from these things to actually care about them. People certainly pretend to but I'm sure if Apple said they'd help solve all of these problems and more but we'll have to pay triple the price for an iphone many people would have a serious reality check. This is just the nature of things. We demand a certain quality at a certain price at a certain time and that requires a certain level of sacrifice on someone's part.
People like drugs. It shouldn't be news to you, but in the USA Prescription addiction kills more than illegal narcotics. Its technically more dangerous to have prescription drugs, than it is to drive a car. The same way you enjoy anything, people have their reasons. And the thing they are enjoying, or at least types of it, are 100% legal. The question shouldn't be about why people want weed. It really is like asking why people like pizza. People do. People abuse drugs, and some just take them for pain, or relaxation. There are drugs on the market for pain and relaxation. You're not going to ask Johnson & Johnson why they are making a product, as its clear that there is a demand for it, and they are filling that void.
The world is what it is, and people enjoy drugs. There isn't some illusion that its one type of class, or one type of person that does drugs, as we have the data to show it affects all of us. There is a problem when weed, is the least lethal, and least dangerous drug out, yet it has harsher laws attached to it because mostly minorities and lower class people do the drug. Thats nonsense.
Sure, you might not understand why people like weed. I don't understand why people continue ambien recreationally. All drugs have medical uses, Marijuana helps cancer patients deal with Chemo therapy, and aids parkinsons patients symptoms by relaxing their body. This is all done with non-life threatening addictions, or side effects. The case against weed, in the form of "I don't get it." isn't really a case, and isn't really meaningful if you're discussing legality/symptoms/side effects/accessibility/etc.
I'm with you though, I think cartels will go legal. It would still be profitable, but I don't think they would be wiling to compete with science.. maybe guns...
MightyHedgehog
Member
I only included it because it was an example of something that is changing despite conventional wisdom saying it wouldn't.
Some illegal substances may remain illegal while some illegal substances are now becoming legal up to certain amounts in certain cases of use in highly-populated states. That trend is continuing as our leaders grapple with shrinking revenues and unsustainable budgets that need to be larger to cover basic services or we will face matters much more grave than anything to do with prohibition. It's a matter of money and political will. You're seeing it change now. It will continue to do so. Why are you so certain that it won't change despite it happening right now as we speak?
Nope, they'd just move onto worse drugs or focus entirely on human trafficking. This shit won't end until the Mexican government takes such a firm grasp over the situation that they'd choke the country to death. Sometimes to go up you need to go down.
Fenderputty
Banned
Meh ... I don't think Cartels will be able to compete with the supply chains of existing organizations like Philip Morris. Some might be able to go straight, but I don't think it will be an easy transition for them. I've read that all the cigarette manufacturers have plans to start producing the second the stuff becomes legal.
California alone is somthing like 14-15 billion or so I believe.
It says 70% of foreign narcotics.
I'm probably gonna look into getting a medical marijuana license.
Or the US Government steps in to stop the terrorist organizations.
But they're probably taking a cut to remain apathetic, and using it to fund black projects.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Fair enough, but I think he's also saying most of the people reading this thread probably don't buy it because it's not very good.
Truly a situation where the remedy is worse than the disease.
Though I am not sure the violence completely goes away in Mexico, the cartels and gangs will just turn to other criminal acts. Though without their cash cow they will necessarily shrink.
Mexico has a huge corruption problem which has let this become almost unmanagable. The US has exactly the same profit motive for drug crime as Mexico (obviously since the Mexican profit motive is the US market) but law enforcement is much less corrupt. So the situation where the criminals have more power and funding than the law enforcers simply can't develop till it becomes unmanagable.
Until you see committment from the national government to actually protect the local mayors, prosecutors, and law enforcement, you can be sure that the national government wants the current situation to continue.
Though I am not sure the violence completely goes away in Mexico, the cartels and gangs will just turn to other criminal acts. Though without their cash cow they will necessarily shrink.
Mexico has a huge corruption problem which has let this become almost unmanagable. The US has exactly the same profit motive for drug crime as Mexico (obviously since the Mexican profit motive is the US market) but law enforcement is much less corrupt. So the situation where the criminals have more power and funding than the law enforcers simply can't develop till it becomes unmanagable.
Until you see committment from the national government to actually protect the local mayors, prosecutors, and law enforcement, you can be sure that the national government wants the current situation to continue.
Good catch.
Takes like an hour, but it's so worth it. I had a cop stop me because his dog smelled my bag as I came back from a shop. 5 minutes later and a quick verification of my paper work and I was on my way. It's a wonderful thing.
Its not like they can increase the demand for human trafficking, or heroin, or meth. How do you see this happening? Marijuana is a specific sort of income for them. Its beautiful. Worse drugs, still the same, where is the demand? I think you have to see the two parts. 1, their illegal action. 2. The demand.
You cut out their biggest source of profit and their ability to do these other things diminishes dramatically. It wont stop them completely, but its a big step in the right direction and might make the cartels more manageable for law enforcement.
I agree, but there is not distinction between the cartels, law enforcement, the military, and the politicians. If they wanted to stop a good bit of the violence, they could. But they are all corrupt.
Edit. I mean you have local mayors who have their entire families killed and still can't get reliable protection from any level of government before they are inevitably killed. Even when they get protection the protection is woefully outgunned, already subverted by the cartels, or susceptible to threats on their own families so they abandon their charge. If the political willpower was there, they could provide protection. But everyone is bought off so they just give token gestures of fighting the cartels. Anyone with any real conviction is left on their own to be assassinated.
The other problem is that they will never tax the Medical industry as much so obtaining a medical card would remain highly desirable if it is over taxed for recreation MJ. Not to mention the minority that will choose to legally grow it makes paying high taxes less desirable. The industry should have a black market for a long time because the legislation is still way too strict compared to the freedom the Black market allowed for people's entire lives.
OP, take a look at this to get a better idea of what the real numbers are:
http://www.ycsg.yale.edu/center/forms/debunking-mythical-numbers168-175.pdf
http://www.ycsg.yale.edu/center/forms/debunking-mythical-numbers168-175.pdf
Less money for the cartels mean less money to pay people off = less corruption.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
Say word son!
I know where my dope comes from, and it sure as hell isn't mexico.
ONE time in high-school somebody came into a couple pounds of Mexican weed...it was such a colossal failure that eventually it was sold for >$100 an ounce because nobody wanted to buy it. That was the first and last time I ever saw product like that.
Fenderputty
Banned
Interesting read. Seems some of the numbers have been overstated.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
People won't stop smoking weed. To fix this problem, in the words of Marley, "legalize it, don't criticize it."
Not only is the drug war severely hypocritical, it costs shitloads of money and as you've pointed out, people's lives. Plus people can't enjoy their glorious herbs without the man bring 'em down mahn!
Not only is the drug war severely hypocritical, it costs shitloads of money and as you've pointed out, people's lives. Plus people can't enjoy their glorious herbs without the man bring 'em down mahn!
Zod the Bear
Member
If there was no US market, they wouldn't be feuding over the territory adjacent to the border. They wouldn't stop existing, but US demand is certainly a driving force in the matter.
In Breaking Bad, they increased demand for meth by making a purer kind with a greater high.
Also now they can after REAL crimes. Not just fill their prison quotas with some random junkie.
B For Bendetta
Member
I would bet all the money in the world that the topic creator consumes some product that is produced at the expense of humans.
Fenderputty
Banned
OK it's a movie, but did they increase the demand for THEIR meth or ALL meth.
Ace Harding
Member
Starts Sunday on AMC, 10/9c
It doesn't matter if it's a movie. Is it scientifically impossible for the drug cartel to make a more addictive drug? They could even producer other synthetic drugs.
Cartels will not suddenly lose power. They will adjust, I think.
BobTheFork
Member
No, I meant just about anything people smoke comes from inside the state. They aren't trafficing south border brown bud up here for us.
When I purchase pure colorado kush, I know I'm buying a quality product. Had sown and grown, like God intended. There's a good feeling knowing my purchase stays in the local economy. But I smoke it because it tastes good, like America used to.
This is a company(the cartels) throwing a hail marry to engineer stronger weed/meth to sell illegally. There are so many ways it makes little to no financial sense, for them to do this. And again, we are talking weed here. People that like weed, like weed. They aren't looking to get higher than the last time, at any cost. Consider that most mexican weed is trashable garbage compared to anything in california, yet, here we are. Its good enough. People that can't get it, get it from cartels because there are no options. If there were options, people have access to a quality that the cartels couldn't compete with on the scale. Cartels vs the Growers of the international world. Mexico is hardly known for quality of its products, drugs are no different. It has to make sense financially to engineer stronger drugs. And that would include marking up the price. Just a lot of flags my man.
However, breaking bad is dead on about many things.. ill wait this one out.
SteveWinwood
Member
Interesting.
Methamphetamine is physically addictive.
freenudemacusers
Member
breaking bad is also not real
notworksafe
Member
Who smokes gross Mexican weed? Yucko.
Can't say much about USA and Mexico, but here in Brazil, I don't need to go very far from where I live to see the shitty consequences of buying drugs, including Marijuana, from drug dealers (And I'm not talking about addicts, but actual violence and murders. Thankfully, not at the scale that is happening in Mexico). That's why I am more sympathetic to consumers who grow their own weed for personal use, and if the prohibition can't be lifted, at least the penalties should go easier on them. (but fuck them if they start to sell to others). Already stopped talking to some people because of their consumption of weed from dealers.
I'm in favor of the legalization of of Marijuana, but I can't help but think that there are very addictive drugs that I feel that shouldn't be legalized at all, but are still currently a hell of problem. Fuck you Crack.
I'm in favor of the legalization of of Marijuana, but I can't help but think that there are very addictive drugs that I feel that shouldn't be legalized at all, but are still currently a hell of problem. Fuck you Crack.
The concepts behind it are very real.
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