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[Formosa]

(doesn't make sense to me, as the PS4 Pro already splits the PS4 audience, already moving towards the philosophy of the Elite controller...And PSVR, and that licensed keyboard controller...)

Not sure why you think the PRO will split the PS4 audience. It's like you have a 4K TV and a regular 1080P TV, is Netflix also splitting their audiences? -_-

 

[LordOfChaos]

Some people in this thread doesn't seem to understand what splitting the user base means. The base PS4 runs the same games the PS4 pro can. There are no incompatibility issues nor are there multiplayer advantages after restrictions. The user base is split when hardware revisions has new controls and better specs making games exclusive to the new hardware such as Xenoblade for the new 3ds requiring users to upgrade. The PS4 pro remains optional.

Would you call running at a higher and/or more stable framerate on one console an advantage in competitive play?

Not sure why you think the PRO will split the PS4 audience. It's like you have a 4K TV and a regular 1080P TV, is Netflix also splitting their audiences? -_-

Same as above, and then why does a better controller?


Either a better framerate and better controller both 'split the user base' and create 'haves and have nots', or neither do. These aren't consistent philosophies.



Heck, even if they don't want to give a controller advantage, why not just a steel controller with lifetime support? I just want better build than the DS4.

 

[Zyae]

That's a third party accessory, though. Sounds like Sony just isn't doing one themselves.

They allow it which completely contradicts his "have and have nots" statement

 

[Formosa]

Sticking with the dual shock 4 is a large part of why I'm not getting a PS4 Pro next month.

Really? lmao

 

[Formosa]

Would you call running at a higher and/or more stable framerate on one console an advantage in competitive play?



Same as above, and then why does a better controller?


Either a better framerate and better controller both 'split the user base' and create 'haves and have nots', or neither do. These aren't consistent philosophies.



Heck, even if they don't want to give a controller advantage, why not just a steel controller with lifetime support? I just want better build than the DS4.

Sony already have said that the PRO will not give players advantages muiltiplayer play.
http://www.technobuffalo.com/2016/09/09/playstation-4-pro-no-advantage-in-multiplayer/

 

[boneyjangles]

Stupid.

Leaving money on the table.

What's stupid and leaving money on the table?

This whole thread seems to be misguided . It's very clear what the PS4 Pro is, it's a standard PS4, with additional pro enhancements that can be leveraged if games are compiled to recognise and take advantage of the enhancements. There is nothing being 'missed out' on.

 

[Formosa]

Think of it as a PC... When you change a video card, it will not split the audience.

 

[Zyae]

What's stupid and leaving money on the table?

This whole thread seems to be misguided . It's very clear what the PS4 Pro is, it's a standard PS4, with additional pro enhancements that can be leveraged if games are compiled to recognise and take advantage of the enhancements. There is nothing being 'missed out' on.

his reasoning for no elite controller is stupid and is leaving money on the table

 

[leeh]

Interesting interview!

Regarding the controller, I'd just personally say that Sony don't want to fork out for the R&D of a new controller. In all fairness, it's a bit too late for them to start making one now.

Also, what he said regarding compatibility and the GPU, for me this is evidence that the PS5 won't have native BC with PS4 titles. If that's the case and they don't have any BC solution at all from launch of the PS5, it will be a very interesting start to the next generation.

 

[Broadbandito]

There are plenty of options (cheaper) than what an OFFICIAL elite controller would bring to the table. If anyone is interested check out Battle Beaver Customs.

My Xbox Elite controller did not last long. That thing looks awesome in paper and great in the honeymoon phase but truly a disaster the longer it lived. Microsoft only had a 90 day warranty on a $150 controller and that right there does not scream confidence in a product.

 

[Gaenor]

Sony already have said that the PRO will not give players advantages muiltiplayer play.
http://www.technobuffalo.com/2016/09/09/playstation-4-pro-no-advantage-in-multiplayer/

Sony said:

It has to be the same frame rate as on the standard PS4.

What it means is that 30 fps multiplayer games on a PS4 won't be 60 fps on a Pro. But a game like Battlefield 1 (a very recent example), that is 60 fps but is having issues having a smooth 60 fps on a PS4, will have smoother framerate on a PS4 Pro. Both will have the same targeted 60 fps, but the extra power of the Pro will help smoothing it out. Anyway, it's not like Dice (or any other developer) has coded the framerate dips. They can't replicate those same exact dips on a more powerful hardware running the same game.

Edit:

Would you call running at a higher and/or more stable framerate on one console an advantage in competitive play?

Add to that having better resolution on some games. The result is a sharper image, thus somewhat of an advantage.

 

[SpecX]

Fuck this, give me a damn elite controller. The build quality on the DS4 is so shitty compared to all other controllers and this is free Mo ey to introduce it. It doesn't split the base if it functions the same with higher quality materials.

 

[LelouchZero]

"We just turn off the second GPU,"

So yeah, what to trust ? Eurogamer, in which Cerny talk about Full GPU, Half GPU, Doubling the CU (hence why the "we basically mirrored the GPU") or The Verge, in which basically Cerny has been dumbing down its comparison ?

The Verge's interpretation is weirdly worded as it can lead you to thinking it's two GPUs, Cerny specifically mentions turning off half the GPU to run it at something close to the original PS4's GPU.

From EuroGamer:

Double the compute units, laid out like a mirror of the original PS4's GPU. Half the CUs deactivate when running in base PS4 mode

Cerny explains, detailing how the Pro switches into its 'base' compatibility mode. "We just turn off half the GPU and run it at something quite close to the original GPU."

It's a single 2304 core GPU which is double the PS4's GPU, the Verge interpreting it as a second GPU is a simplification of the concept as 2304 divided by two is essentially a single PS4 GPU.

 

[Formosa]

Sony said:


What it means is that 30 fps multiplayer games on a PS4 won't be 60 fps on a Pro. But a game like Battlefield 1 (a very recent example), that is 60 fps but is having issues having a smooth 60 fps on a PS4, will have smoother framerate on a PS4 Pro. Both will have the same targeted 60 fps, but the extra power of the Pro will help smoothing it out. Anyway, it's not like Dice (or any other developer) has coded the framerate dips. They can't replicate those same exact dips on a more powerful hardware running the same game.

Edit:


Add to that having better resolution on some games. The result is a sharper image, thus somewhat of an advantage.

Really? As a BF player for a long time myself... I totally disagree framerates and resolutions will give you advantages. It's all up to skills after all. I can win if I am on a 720p tv and with a very old GC. Skills skills skill is all.

Having better resolutions and FRs are better for your eyes and enjoyment only. It will not help you to win ANY match lol.

 

[rambis]

The Verge's interpretation is weirdly worded as it can lead you to thinking it's two GPUs, Cerny specifically mentions turning off half the GPU to run it at something close to the original PS4's GPU.

From EuroGamer:





It's a single 2304 core GPU which is double the PS4's GPU, the Verge interpreting it as a second GPU is a simplification of the concept as 2304 divided by two is essentially a single PS4 GPU.

They are quoting Cerney, he is the one saying that its a second GPU. Cerney's quotes in bold.

For the more than 700 or so existing PS4 games, Cerny said the goal was to ensure those titles played smoothly no matter what. That’s why the Pro incorporates an identical GPU. Because the new console has "the old GPU next to a mirror version of itself," Sony can support existing games with a simple trick: "We just turn off the second GPU," he said. Developers can patch these titles to boost graphics and performance in very subtle ways. But unless you have a 4K television, the difference will not be substantial.

People are just getting twisted up in the verbage for whatever reason. Its not really a significant detail either way.

 

[renzolama]

His quote on the controller is stupid, they're just trying to justify not wanting to innovate or improve on the horrible battery life.

I think it might even be more along the lines of "we already spent all of our R&D budget for this half decade"

 

[LordOfChaos]

I think it might even be more along the lines of "we already spent all of our R&D budget for this half decade"

Steel milling machines at scale aren't cheap either.

 

[Gaenor]

Really? As a BF player for a long time myself... I totally disagree framerates and resolutions will give you advantages. It's all up to skills after all. I can win if I am on a 720p tv and with a very old GC. Skills skills skill is all.

Having better resolutions and FRs are better for your eyes and enjoyment only. It will not help you to win ANY match lol.

It's all up to the skills (up to a certain point), just like using a normal or an Elite controller...

A good player will win its fights, no matter if he plays in 720p or in 1080p/4k, just like he would if he played with a normal controller or with a controller with paddles and whatnot.

Both can give an advantage though, definitely. Having better resolution for example helps spot enemies that are farther on the Battlefield, this is undeniable.

 

[Sony]

his reasoning for no elite controller is stupid and is leaving money on the table

It would be a brilliant move by Microsoft to launch an official Microsoft branded converter that makes you use the Elite controller on the PS4 xD

 

[Rellik]

It would be a brilliant move by Microsoft to launch an official Microsoft branded converter that makes you use the Elite controller on the PS4 xD

And I'd buy it day 1.

 

[onQ123]

So yeah, what to trust ? Eurogamer, in which Cerny talk about Full GPU, Half GPU, Doubling the CU (hence why the "we basically mirrored the GPU") or The Verge, in which basically Cerny has been dumbing down its comparison ?

The Verge's interpretation is weirdly worded as it can lead you to thinking it's two GPUs, Cerny specifically mentions turning off half the GPU to run it at something close to the original PS4's GPU.

From EuroGamer:





It's a single 2304 core GPU which is double the PS4's GPU, the Verge interpreting it as a second GPU is a simplification of the concept as 2304 divided by two is essentially a single PS4 GPU.

"the old GPU next to a mirror version of itself,"

"We just turn off the second GPU,"

"First, we doubled the GPU size by essentially placing it next to a mirrored version of itself, sort of like the wings of a butterfly. That gives us an extremely clean way to support the existing 700 titles," Cerny explains, detailing how the Pro switches into its 'base' compatibility mode. "We just turn off half the GPU and run it at something quite close to the original GPU."

 

[Formosa]

It's all up to the skills (up to a certain point), just like using a normal or an Elite controller...

A good player will win its fights, no matter if he plays in 720p or in 1080p/4k, just like he would if he played with a normal controller or with a controller with paddles and whatnot.

Both can give an advantage though, definitely. Having better resolution for example helps spot enemies that are farther on the Battlefield, this is undeniable.

With the OG PS4 you "already" will/have no problem spot enemies. And no it does not give you any advantages if you play it on the PRO. Your argument is really non existence because your example of BF1 will not be 4K on PRO. And it will NOT be the PS PRO that will give you the advantage, it will be the 4K TV if you insist resolution will give player an advantage.

 

[Gaenor]

With the OG PS4 you "already" will/have no problem spot enemies. And no it does not give you any advantages if you play it on the PRO. Your argument is really non existence because your example of BF1 will not be 4K on PRO. And it will NOT be the PS PRO that will give you the advantage, it will be the 4K TV if you insist resolution will give player an advantage.

Well, BF1 was just an example that was initially used to point out that PS4 Pro will help smooth out the framerate. Because, yes a smoother framerate is better not only for your eyes and enjoyment, but also for gameplay.

Some games will be native 1080p on the PS4 and native 4k on the PS4 Pro. Sure you can play your native 1080p games on a 4k TV, but the IQ will be a lot better with PS4 Pro's native 4k native resolution on the same TV.

Like it or not, it can be perceived as an advantage for some. I'm done here hahah

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

There are plenty of options (cheaper) than what an OFFICIAL elite controller would bring to the table. If anyone is interested check out Battle Beaver Customs.

My Xbox Elite controller did not last long. That thing looks awesome in paper and great in the honeymoon phase but truly a disaster the longer it lived. Microsoft only had a 90 day warranty on a $150 controller and that right there does not scream confidence in a product.

What didn't last long? If it was the analog sticks, those are easily replaceable. The build quality/materials are considerably higher than a standard controller, so what did you do to your Elite Controller? Do you just throw it on the ground after use? I've had mine since close to launch and it's still in pristine condition.

 

[zeelman]

Disappointing that Sony will sell a terrible mouse and keyboard accessory from Hori but they won't make a high end controller. I'm going to look at 3rd party options.

 

[i3allistic]

Sounds like they just don't want to make one

Sounds like they alrdy 100% focus on the next PS5 and don't want to waste time redesigning something that not broken and the PS4 Pro was just a quick slap together and too please the elitist that want a little bit more.

 

[mckmas8808]

Sounds like they just don't want to make one

Exactly! Doesn't bother me, but I can see why others don't like it.

 

[GhostTrick]

"the old GPU next to a mirror version of itself,"

"We just turn off the second GPU,"

"First, we doubled the GPU size by essentially placing it next to a mirrored version of itself, sort of like the wings of a butterfly. That gives us an extremely clean way to support the existing 700 titles," Cerny explains, detailing how the Pro switches into its 'base' compatibility mode. "We just turn off half the GPU and run it at something quite close to the original GPU."

Keyword here: "We doubled the GPU size" not "We added a second GPU". You're just too blinded to see that what Cerny is claiming is that they doubled the CU numbers, when he claims they placed a mirrored version of itself.
It's simpler to say "We turn off the half of it or the second part of it" rather than saying "We turn off half of the compute units". But keep on your crazy narratives that only works with people with really limited knowledge.

 

[renzolama]

Disappointing that Sony will sell a terrible mouse and keyboard accessory from Hori but they won't make a high end controller. I'm going to look at 3rd party options.

Just get a scuf controller or similar model from a competitor. The scuf controllers are built using official controllers as the base and in my experience feel higher quality than the original after completion. The price is around the same as the elite but with less perks (two paddles instead of four, no remapping, etc) unless you pay extra for those. Or, if you really like the elite, just buy one and connect it to ps4 using a third party dongle like

https://www.amazon.com/CronusMax-Cross-Cover-Gaming-Adapter-Windows/dp/B013E2KD5M

You could be even more clever and build your own dongle

https://github.com/matlo/serialusb
https://github.com/matlo/GIMX

Edit: Is it okay to paste amazon links here?

 

[antibolo]

There are two Pro like controllers coming from two companies. You may find something you like between the two. The DS4 is perfect for the majority, especially with steam support coming.

Which ones? I'm interested.

 

[ShutterMunster]

His response on the Elite controller is poorly thought out. You're launching a new console that will bring the platform much closer to a have's and have nots environment but the controller is a bridge too far?

lolwut?

 

[Croatoan]

Really? As a BF player for a long time myself... I totally disagree framerates and resolutions will give you advantages. It's all up to skills after all. I can win if I am on a 720p tv and with a very old GC. Skills skills skill is all.

Having better resolutions and FRs are better for your eyes and enjoyment only. It will not help you to win ANY match lol.

Running at 250 fps on my PC I win more games in Rocket League that 60fps on PS4. Its not even close either.

For years competitive players have turned their graphics to low in arena shooters to get the highest framerate.

Frame advantage does exist and is third behind latency and skill.

Basically, shit latency and no skill can overcome it. With as shit framerate two evenly skilled players will be out of wack (the higher framerate will "Win" more).

 

[NastyBook]

As this rap plays in my head as my theme music to NeoGaf

♪ ♪ ♪ "Okay let's start it from scratch, put it all on line
My character's been defamed, I put it all online
Told 'em that's where we were headed, said I was wrong all the time
And now we finally here, I waited a long ass time
Been called every name in the book, been a liar, a deceiver
A cheater, a woman beater, am I all, am I neither?
Been absorbin' the ether, robbin' Paul to pay Peter
High price to pay to strangers I been offering me to
I've been more than a leader, even with my back to the wall
Thought I was finished forever when I was practicin' falls
Now you second guessin' yourself, you gotta ask what you saw
They fishin', wishin' it's fiction, but ain't no actin' at all
Can't even fathom the gall, they mad I'm appalled " ♪ ♪ ♪

'
You get way too much shit in the tech threads, fella. Congratulations.

 

[onQ123]

Keyword here: "We doubled the GPU size" not "We added a second GPU". You're just too blinded to see that what Cerny is claiming is that they doubled the CU numbers, when he claims they placed a mirrored version of itself.
It's simpler to say "We turn off the half of it or the second part of it" rather than saying "We turn off half of the compute units". But keep on your crazy narratives that only works with people with really limited knowledge.

It's one GPU created by using 2 PS4 GPU modules just like how the 8 core PS4 & Xbox One CPUs are made by using 2 4 core jaguar modules

 

[Hellshy.]

I wouldn't mind a pro controller but I'm fine with 3rd party licensed ones if they are good. I don't get people saying they need to make a quality controller first. I was under the impression they fixed most of the issues of launch year controllers. I have the 20th anniversary and a uncharted 4 controller that I use daily is ce they came out and they work perfectly with zero issues with the triggers or sticks. I do wish the battery life was longer

 

[LordOfChaos]

Keyword here: "We doubled the GPU size" not "We added a second GPU". You're just too blinded to see that what Cerny is claiming is that they doubled the CU numbers, when he claims they placed a mirrored version of itself.
It's simpler to say "We turn off the half of it or the second part of it" rather than saying "We turn off half of the compute units". But keep on your crazy narratives that only works with people with really limited knowledge.

It's one GPU created by using 2 PS4 GPU modules just like how the 8 core PS4 & Xbox One CPUs are made by using 2 4 core jaguar modules

Oh my god, I'm pretty sure you guys are saying the same thing, lol.

You both agree that it's on the same single die, yes? Just like the 4+4 Jaguar cores? With GPUs being embarrassingly parallel devices, mirroring the GPU execution hardware on the same die is both creating one larger GPU and "mirroring the existing GPU".

Done? Done.

 

[Lighthouse]

Paddled controllers should absolutely be the standard in 2016. It's indefensible.

 

[jeffram]

Paddled controllers should absolutely be the standard in 2016. It's indefensible.

While I think that an elite controller would be great. Paddled controllers are going to confuse a lot of people. Controllers are very complicated for new gamers to get used to as is.

 

[Lighthouse]

While I think that an elite controller would be great. Paddled controllers are going to confuse a lot of people. Controllers are very complicated for new gamers to get used to as is.

What? The paddles can be removed if they hurt your brain. Does that work for you?

 

[Omnistalgic]

What? The paddles can be removed if they hurt your brain. Does that work for you?

Why are you being so harsh though.

Controllers are already complicated, he has a valid point sheesh...

Not everyone cares that much about an elite controller

 

[Kremzeek]

Just offer a controller with the ability to put in some batteries that last longer than 3 hours and I'm good to go.

 

[onQ123]

Oh my god, I'm pretty sure you guys are saying the same thing, lol.

You both agree that it's on the same single die, yes? Just like the 4+4 Jaguar cores? With GPUs being embarrassingly parallel devices, mirroring the GPU execution hardware on the same die is both creating one larger GPU and "mirroring the existing GPU".

Done? Done.

The thing is I'm using direct quotes but they say that I'm twisting words

 

[Doug Heffernan]

What's wrong with having options Cerny?

 

[Proelite]

It's one GPU created by using 2 PS4 GPU modules just like how the 8 core PS4 & Xbox One CPUs are made by using 2 4 core jaguar modules

If that's the case, PS4 pro would have 64 ROPs. Can't imagine why Cerny wouldnt mention that.

Don't you agree simpling mirroring the GPU would result in 64 ROPs?

 

[Lighthouse]

Why are you being so harsh though.

Controllers are already complicated, he has a valid point sheesh...

Not everyone cares that much about an elite controller

I was too harsh.

But I do not see that as a valid point. Paddle controller has helped me so much. Its why Im passionate about it.

 

[jeffram]

What? The paddles can be removed if they hurt your brain. Does that work for you?

Lol, I forgot that not having paddles on controllers is indefensible, I'm obviously mistaken thinking that someone who buys their first console will find it complicated to use 2 analog sticks, 4 face buttons, 4 triggers and 4 paddles all at once, and that it's belittling to have to remove parts of the controller to simplify the process of learning how to play modern games.

You're obviously more equipped to design mass market consumer electronics products than multi-billion dollar companies. And who cares about market research and product testing anyways? You already decided what's best for everyone based on what you want.

 

[Lighthouse]

Lol, I forgot that not having paddles on controllers is indefensible, I'm obviously mistaken thinking that someone who buys their first console will find it complicated to use 2 analog sticks, 4 face buttons, 4 triggers and 4 paddles all at once, and that it's belittling to have to remove parts of the controller to simplify the process of learning how to play modern games.

You're obviously more equipped to design mass market consumer electronics products than multi-billion dollar companies. And who cares about market research and product testing anyways? You already decided what's best for everyone based on what you want.

Guess Im not a fan of the argument. No problem.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Sony already have said that the PRO will not give players advantages muiltiplayer play.
http://www.technobuffalo.com/2016/09/09/playstation-4-pro-no-advantage-in-multiplayer/

That to me would seem to mean same target framerate...The PS4 Pro would still offer a more consistent one.

If a game targets 60fps on both but is hitting 50 when there's explosions on the PS4 and 60 at the same scene on the Pro, is that an advantage competitively?

And if that advantage is allowed, would a better built DS4 really throw everything out the window?

I'm not even saying the scale of the advantages is the same, but the philosophies are inconsistent. Even if they didn't add any paddle buttons, I just want a better built, preferably metal DS4. With, dare I ask, double digit hours battery life.

Anywho...That keyboard/mouse controller thing they approved would probably wreck anyone on an Elite controller anyways.

 

[Omnistalgic]

I was too harsh.

But I do not see that as a valid point. Paddle controller has helped me so much. Its why Im passionate about it.

Fair enough...I was rooting for a Pro controller myself, but I just wanted a more comfortable, better battery life replacement. I don't play shooters much, most experiences I've had DS4 feels pretty good for.

 

[Nags]

Fuck an elite controller, at this point a DS4 with better battery life would be good enough

Thisssss.