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Marvel's Daredevil S2 |OT| No More Half Measures - March 18th on Netflix
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
Crazymoogle
Member
Can always go the other way around, as with Luke Cage. Give Punisher a season, and make someone else the moral compass that bugs the crap out of him. Maybe you only have enough Daredevil material for a half season, or you pay big for somebody bored on the main stage like Jeremy Renner. Or you want to pre-introduce another character. Moon Knight, Squirrel Girl, etc.
My wife and I totally enjoyed season 2 of DD more than the first though. She even forgave Jon Bernthal.
My wife and I totally enjoyed season 2 of DD more than the first though. She even forgave Jon Bernthal.
Just finished this season, and I absolutely adored it. I just love the whole aesthetic, characters and fight scenes. Better than S1 imo. But there were so many things I didn't understand, especially in the last few episodes. For example,
Really liked Karen in this one. And I loved all the character interactions, especially
. The ternary characters were great as well, like Ellison and Marci.
I think I'll watch JJ, haven't had a chance to yet.
Elektra had fought the ninjas before, so how did it take them so long to figure out that she was the Black Sky or whatever? And towards the end, she seemed hell-bent on killing Stick, how did she change her mind so easily?
Really liked Karen in this one. And I loved all the character interactions, especially
Karen/Punisher
I think I'll watch JJ, haven't had a chance to yet.
The Punisher could work as a tv series or movie if handled correctly.
It's true that he lacks the internal struggle that the majority of superhero films rely on for the character, as he is fairly black and white in his view point. His character is mostly based on a sense of principles, which are highly adaptable as it allows for interpretations through various genres while having a consistent characterisation . You could essentially throw him into a crime, thriller, action, revenge, noir or horror story and the potential is there. Obviously it would depend on a good story and a cast to support him, but that is true of any story.
I wouldn't say that a lack of a good Punisher film is evidence that he wouldn't work in a feature length film or series. The reality is that he isnt a hugely popular character compared to othees and doesn't draw in the talent to produce something great. I dont think has actually attempted to make a good Punisher film, instead, the branding has been attached to shit to get some easy ticket sales.
captjohnboyd
Member
Jesus christ. As much as I've enjoyed the second season, much more so than the first, I'm beginning to hate Karen and her constant crying and moping. I can't tell if it's the actress (she did do this some on True Blood) or the writing but I'm just ready for her to get killed off or something lol. It's literally every single episode. I still have two ep to go before I finish the season but I don't see it abating anytime soon
I think Karen [general S2 spoiler]
will be a casualty whenever Fisk gets out of prison. Fisk made it pretty clear to Matt that he's going to be after them once he gets out of prison. Couple that with Karen's constant knack for getting way in over her head, and I think she's toast
Insane Metal
Gold Member
S1 was so much better... :|
Liquidsnake
Banned
Well its not about which season is better than the other, its that these 26 episodes are the best stuff Marvel has ever done.
And that is probably not debatable.
And that is probably not debatable.
The thought of Moon Knight being the moral compass for Punisher is cracking me up. Death toll on that show would be 'everyone'.
The Horror the horror
Banned
I don't think his lack of internal conflict is the sole reason. The Punisher stands out in the MCU because he happens to reside in a world where his brand of violence is frowned upon and rarely imitated by his more popular counterparts. He kills his enemies; they just beat them up. Remove him from the MCU and drop him into any of the more plausible universes that serve as a backdrop for today's grim-dark R-Rated films, and he's another Bryan Mills; another inconspicuous shadow in a dark room.
In order for a Punisher series to work, he needs to stand out. It must be clearly stated to the viewer that this universe finds killing and death as implausible realities, and that Frank Castle is an obscene and destructive anomaly in a world that is otherwise wholesome and compromises pacifist, immortal beings. If not the universe, then it must be personified into a powerful character of his equal who acts as its standard bearer, as we've seen with Daredevil this season. The problem with the previous Punisher movies is they used soft characters - dumb cops, idealistic citizens, or women - to incite internal conflicts in a man who is too far gone and beyond them.
Jeffolation
Banned
Back half of season 2 got pretty boring, pretty disappointed about it.
The Hand becoming the primary antagonists while putting characters like Fisk and Castle on the back burner is a such a wtf decision. Their motives are so ill defined that I just stopped caring about what happened. The only good thing to come out of the last episode was Stick killing that nothing character Nobu. I hope all that junk is largely absent from season 3, so totally done with the ninja fighting.
I really dont think so....
I think both are equally bad. Its just that season 1 gave us that hope that it was bad - but it could get better
And then season 2 just crushed those dreams
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
Finished season 2 over the weekend. This show was weird for me. I absolutely despised Matt Murdock he's a bad friend and a hypocrite of a hero who I couldn't find any redeeming qualities in. But overall I enjoyed the show. I guess that speaks to how strong the rest of the cast was.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
#ItsAllLooselyConnected
If I didn't peak in this thread, I would have stopped at episode 2 and be disappointed with this season. The first two episodes were really bad and I thought everyone else would feel the same way. These episodes contained far too many scenes of a group of people aimlessly firing at someone/something like it's a cartoon. It's so silly that it makes it hard for me to take the show seriously.
I'm happy they brought it back with episodes 3 and 4 for sure.
I'm happy they brought it back with episodes 3 and 4 for sure.
Episode 13
That was pretty bad. I guess this is what happens when you take a scrub-tier villain
make him the big bad of the final arc. whogiveashit.gif etc.
I like Elektra's casting, performance, and most of her characterization. When she's with Matt it isn't half bad. But -everything- involving the Hand is boring as shit. It's mostly lifted from Miller's run without really bothering to update or adapt it well enough to fit the show it's actually in. Just stupid fights, cheesy lines, lots of showboating. Might have been exciting to audiences maybe 20 years ago lol.
The Punisher storyline fizzled too. Went nowhere,
The conclusion just isn't satisfying on any level. Should have just ended this season at ep10 because that's the last time it was actually good.
This season feels like two great TV movies of Daredevil that got edited, expanded and bloated into an average 13 episode TV series. Should have just been
That was pretty bad. I guess this is what happens when you take a scrub-tier villain
from the first season no one really gives a shit about other than there being this one violent fight people kinda remember, and
I like Elektra's casting, performance, and most of her characterization. When she's with Matt it isn't half bad. But -everything- involving the Hand is boring as shit. It's mostly lifted from Miller's run without really bothering to update or adapt it well enough to fit the show it's actually in. Just stupid fights, cheesy lines, lots of showboating. Might have been exciting to audiences maybe 20 years ago lol.
The Punisher storyline fizzled too. Went nowhere,
even his big costume reveal fell flat for me.
This season feels like two great TV movies of Daredevil that got edited, expanded and bloated into an average 13 episode TV series. Should have just been
Daredevil vs Punisher, followed by The Punisher in Cell Block D.
It's still not April 1, should tag your spoilers.
And yeah,
story kinda fizzled out. Seems to be a thing with the Marvel Netflix shows.
Japanmanx3
Member
Just finished this. Thought it was decent as a follow up to such a strong first season. Choreography is still on point, if not a little gratuitous with the flip kicks. The Punisher was fantastic.
The second half of the season with Stick and Elektra was interesting. Elektra grew on me. Seeing Matt's conflict of interest between so many people did not however. Foggy came off way more whinier in this season and Karen is even more annoying. Something about her upsets me. Especially with all the scenes between her and The Punisher. She was so mopey and a cry baby trying to justify his actions to make herself feel better about murdering Fisk's assistant last season and it came off as overly dramatic and lame. Really felt as if he, Matt, should've dropped them both. Made for too many plot lines that they seemingly scrambled to wrap up. Stick is a walking cliché of comic book quotes and that got kind of dumb too. Kingpin was still as mesmerizing this go round so I'm looking forward to his return as the main villain for sure!
Overall though it wasn't bad but it lacked some of the Oomph the first season brought in terms of character development. Looking forward to season 3.
The second half of the season with Stick and Elektra was interesting. Elektra grew on me. Seeing Matt's conflict of interest between so many people did not however. Foggy came off way more whinier in this season and Karen is even more annoying. Something about her upsets me. Especially with all the scenes between her and The Punisher. She was so mopey and a cry baby trying to justify his actions to make herself feel better about murdering Fisk's assistant last season and it came off as overly dramatic and lame. Really felt as if he, Matt, should've dropped them both. Made for too many plot lines that they seemingly scrambled to wrap up. Stick is a walking cliché of comic book quotes and that got kind of dumb too. Kingpin was still as mesmerizing this go round so I'm looking forward to his return as the main villain for sure!
Overall though it wasn't bad but it lacked some of the Oomph the first season brought in terms of character development. Looking forward to season 3.
Meh, I don't think any of those are really spoilers, but whatever.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
End spoilers
No minigun in the final ep was the biggest wtf, all those ninjas just showed up and got a memo that they ran out of budget I guess
On top of Nobu doing fucking nothing, what a loser.
On top of Nobu doing fucking nothing, what a loser.
I don't understand the thinking behind the last couple of episodes at all. Like, it seemed that they were setting up something with the Hand, Nobu wasn't the real big bad, and suddenly this lady assistant showed up with orders for him. I was hoping for something a bit more visually interesting or surprising at the end, but nope. They just have Nobu being the King Jobber on the roof. It was so lazily shot I couldn't see shit half the time.
I love how Daredevil kinda gave up on his code at the end there, and yet he STILL couldn't be the one to finish Nobu off. And then Stick goes all Mortal Kombat on him. Looked so fucking cheesy. The funniest part was Punisher picking off ninjas one by one and Daredevil was just letting him happen. Then the camera closes up on him later and there's this long GRUNT GRUNT GRUNT GRUNT GRUNT moment that was so lame. Not Charlie Cox's finest moment by any means.
I love how Daredevil kinda gave up on his code at the end there, and yet he STILL couldn't be the one to finish Nobu off. And then Stick goes all Mortal Kombat on him. Looked so fucking cheesy. The funniest part was Punisher picking off ninjas one by one and Daredevil was just letting him happen. Then the camera closes up on him later and there's this long GRUNT GRUNT GRUNT GRUNT GRUNT moment that was so lame. Not Charlie Cox's finest moment by any means.
Yeah, the fight in the finale was kind of whack. It was really missing a scene with
Punisher mowing down all those ninjas that came running down the street so those few 5 or 7 on the roof didn't look so out of place. I also feel like there were some disappearing bodies of ninjas they knocked down during the fight, but I'm not sure.
Also,
the ninjas that were hammering on the door suddenly stop and give up while DD and Elektra are talking, lol. They make a big deal about them bursting inside in a few seconds, but then they stop trying to get the door open and nothing happens.
There were some weird editing choices at the end. I really enjoyed the season, I just wish it finished stronger.
captjohnboyd
Member
So many things wrong with how the season ended.
- Did they ever really explain Elektra's connection to
The Hand? Other than the fact that she's the Black Sky whatever that is.
- Frank's big bad guy wasn't set up properly either it wasn't just DD. So we slog through several episodes mentioning the Blacksmith only to have Karen stumble upon him by accident and Frank conveniently (Ep 13 spoiler)
It was too much buildup for it to be thiswaiting outside. How did he know it was his commanding officer? Are we supposed to assume he spotted his former marine at the docks?throw away character
- Karen. Karen, Karen, Karen. As much as I like the actress I simply can't stand her constant crying and whining anymore. I know it's as much a writing choice as anything but Jesus lighten up already. I know a bit about the comics though so I have hope for that to be alleviated in the future lol.
- That last fight on the rooftop in ep13 though. How can they get so many fights right (not as many as I'd like still) and get the final one so wrong. Is it really a budget issue? I can't imagine it is but they simply have to step up their game if they want to continue these types of comic book shows. DD is basically an acrobatic ass kicker so you can't rely on fancy gadgets or special effects to make him seem more...amazing. He has to convincingly fuck shit up and some of the later fights had no heft to them. There was no real sense of weight behind any of the punches or kicks and to bring it up again....those flips though. Lulz
- I really am not sure about Cox as DD anymore either. He was so great on Boardwalk but he just falls so flat for me in this series sometimes. Is it really him? Or the directing? I can't say for sure but I hope it gets better in the coming seasons
There was plenty to enjoy about the season though, aside from my quibbles. Elektra was perfectly cast. I cared more for her arc almost than Matt's. Frank was perfect. Aside from the misfire resolving his storyline at the end he was also perfectly cast and had a story that for the most part stayed true to his character. It moved along much faster than the first season and I was happy to see (Ep 7 on I think)
Fisk show up again
Frank definitely
recognized his old marine pal. The dude says out loud "Long time no see, Frank" before opening fire.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
This is featured in the latest Agents of SHIELD promo:
It's all connected.
Confirmation that S2 takes place after AoU.
demosthenes
Member
About your Frank point.
Right before the boat blows up, the man that Karen recognized in the photo of Blacksmith/Frank/dead guy on the wall of Blacksmith's living room, shouts out to Frank (can't remember what he said) and Frank recognizes him. Frank then connects that the only reason he would be there is that he's working for the blacksmith aka his old boss.
edit: Oh I'm dumb, already answered.
Don't really need to go into anything here but the one biggest win for Daredevil season 2 for me besides how great the Punisher was:
Geoffrey Cantor as Mitchell Ellison was just sublime. He owned that character from start to finish. I could watch a full show of him just running that newspaper.
Geoffrey Cantor as Mitchell Ellison was just sublime. He owned that character from start to finish. I could watch a full show of him just running that newspaper.
Liquidsnake
Banned
My GF was legit telling me she is upset that Season 2 is over, and she was upset that season 3 isn't confirmed for many years.
This is why we are gonna get married. She understands me.
This is why we are gonna get married. She understands me.
Discotheque
Banned
Warzone is great. it's extremely violent and campy though. gonna be very unexpected for you coming out of daredevil season 2.
skip the other garbage film.
They're both fairly terrible films. I can tolerate The Punisher more. War Zone is fairly ridiculous and you may like it for all of the wrong reasons.
I feel like the final couple episodes kind of fell apart in regards to editing continuity.
The season should have picked one plot (and it should have been the Punisher) and stuck with it. Everything having to do with the Hand was just senseless bloat. I like the show well enough, but it could be so much better than it is...
WTF happened at the end of episode 12? Frank just randomly finds this military grade arsenal in a random shack in the woods? Was it supposed to be the colonel's? Was that information ever actually conveyed to the viewer?
When the hell did the ninjas grab Karen? To my recollection, she had a scene where she closed the laptop and left the newspaper office, and her next appearance is sitting in the back of a school bus with her hands tied.
Daredevil's handicap fighting the ninjas is a bunch of bullshit. Okay, so they can somehow mask their heartbeats, but the man whose radar vision can see Foggy in his hospital bed god only knows how many stories down from the roof needs to be told to track their breathing to pick them out? He can hear a drip of blood down a tunnel, but can't track their clearly audible movements? He has an echolocation picture of your surroundings in his head and you can't see their supposed gaps in the ambient noise?
When the hell did the ninjas grab Karen? To my recollection, she had a scene where she closed the laptop and left the newspaper office, and her next appearance is sitting in the back of a school bus with her hands tied.
Daredevil's handicap fighting the ninjas is a bunch of bullshit. Okay, so they can somehow mask their heartbeats, but the man whose radar vision can see Foggy in his hospital bed god only knows how many stories down from the roof needs to be told to track their breathing to pick them out? He can hear a drip of blood down a tunnel, but can't track their clearly audible movements? He has an echolocation picture of your surroundings in his head and you can't see their supposed gaps in the ambient noise?
The season should have picked one plot (and it should have been the Punisher) and stuck with it. Everything having to do with the Hand was just senseless bloat. I like the show well enough, but it could be so much better than it is...
The show required at least 2 more episodes. It looked like time/budget called for them to scale back and finish the series in 14 shows.
To me, so many things were left unsaid:
And lastly, the biggest upset was the
I really did enjoy the season. I still just think it was forced to make decisions due to budget and time.
To me, so many things were left unsaid:
The Hand digs a huge hole, yet no idea still what for. EDIT: Did they get the urn at the very bottom? Hmm that could have been it.
The Blacksmith turns out to be Frank's commanding officer, but we are given no explanation why he chose to deal drugs.
Kingpin runs out of money basically before getting Frank into jail to do his dirty work. Does Kingpin start making money going forward by taking on the other drug dealers transactions? I guess he would. I cannot remember hearing how vast or profitable that could be.
Stick leaves E/DD and ends the episode saying, "lets go round up the gang." - Gang turns out to be a French man and 2 sods that die immediately. What a waste of a line. The expectation would be that he has powerful allies which doesn't pan out.
In the end, Elektra gets placed into the giant urn, but that urn was being powered with blood before hand. Was there something in it during said blood letting? Or is the blood somehow being powered into the urn and then it will feed into her granting her life again?
And lastly, the biggest upset was the
roof fight at the end. Instead of having all the ninjas appear on the roof and having Frank show up to murder 80% of them, the episode shows about 50 ninjas that then turn into 7 Ninjas that then fight E/DD and then only a few get shot by Frank. So anti-climatic.
I really did enjoy the season. I still just think it was forced to make decisions due to budget and time.
univariate
Banned
Fuuuuuuuuu season 3 is so far away
The Horror the horror
Banned
I have every reason to believe that this was planned originally before it was cut out at the last minute. On the Netflix teaser, he wields a mini-gun. Right after he killed Black Smith and finds the hidden weapon cache, he focuses on the mini-gun at the very end.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Yeah - his role in S1 of being set up as the corrupt asshole, only for that to get flipped around paid off significantly in S2. His character is great and it was very satisfying to see him repeatedly back Karen up.
In a show with so many shitty people in it, he was a welcome relief. Still mad they killed Ben so early but he and Karen kinda make up for his role with equal charm.
Sad to know this. Thanks for the information!
KonradLaw
Member
Nah. You can avoid that by not focusing exclusively on Punisher. Instead you make a modern crime show, telling a story about the victims, the criminals and people who are trying to help them. And then you put Punisher inside all of this and show how it affects all the other people in that game.
First season of Fargo shows how well that aproach can work.
One of the most convincing performances in the show. He's always just on the cusp of over-performing, but he doesn't cross the line.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
This is featured in the latest Agents of SHIELD promo:
It's all connected.
Authorities "searching for solutions" lol
that WAS the solution at work
VeryGooster
Banned
100% nailed how I felt about this season overall. Like I was watching a 13-hour teaser for S3.
LilWayneSuckz
Member
That was terrible. I really hope Jessica Jones season 2 is better and somewhat attempts to make it seem they're in the MCU aside from mentioning "a guy with a shield" or whatever.
Making my way through this. Episode 10 felt like, noticeably bad. And I'm usually very lenient on what I consider "okay at least that was interesting."
I don't really binge the show, it kinda dropped off for me naturally after like episode 5 or so. I do like maybe an episode or two then take a few days off sometimes and pick it back up.
It just felt so unfocused to me. Like I understand setup episodes but most standard tv setup episodes usually have a story to them and they usually even dovetail nicely at the end to prime you for what will happen next. Here it just felt like a bunch of scenes (mostly good, some eh) that just happen in rough chronological order because I guess the next set of episodes will work off them?
So to recap -
-Nobu, still alive. Thanks for telling us again. Victims go to Metro General.
-Frank is out of Riker's. So Matt, Foggy and Karen get called to meet the DA so she can die via exposition.
-Matt goes to visit Fisk and threatens him but gets counter threatened into submission basically and confirms Fisk is running the prison.
-Karen doesn't believe that Frank is the gunman at large. She goes to get her files to warn any other potential victims at her place. He shows up and they get shot at by someone else.
-Elektra fights a dude that was sent by Stick. If only to do that dumb pose with the sais, right?
-The ninjas show up at the last minute because they needed something at the last minute. I guess Matt resolves to stop being a lawyer and being a full-time vigilante now.
I guess the last part is what they were trying to work up to but it didn't feel like it all came together, and it doesn't get any time to sink in because hey the power's out and the ninjas are back and Foggy is probably in trouble and so is the rest of Metro General. So it's not like he's had the chance to distance himself from his friends (to keep them safe) and then get inevitably pulled back into it anyway. It just happens in the next beat. If that wasn't the point of the episode then I dunno what it was really about other than an hour of setup that had no real glue to hold it together and exists solely for the viewer to wait for the pieces to fall.
I don't really binge the show, it kinda dropped off for me naturally after like episode 5 or so. I do like maybe an episode or two then take a few days off sometimes and pick it back up.
It just felt so unfocused to me. Like I understand setup episodes but most standard tv setup episodes usually have a story to them and they usually even dovetail nicely at the end to prime you for what will happen next. Here it just felt like a bunch of scenes (mostly good, some eh) that just happen in rough chronological order because I guess the next set of episodes will work off them?
So to recap -
-Nobu, still alive. Thanks for telling us again. Victims go to Metro General.
-Frank is out of Riker's. So Matt, Foggy and Karen get called to meet the DA so she can die via exposition.
-Matt goes to visit Fisk and threatens him but gets counter threatened into submission basically and confirms Fisk is running the prison.
-Karen doesn't believe that Frank is the gunman at large. She goes to get her files to warn any other potential victims at her place. He shows up and they get shot at by someone else.
-Elektra fights a dude that was sent by Stick. If only to do that dumb pose with the sais, right?
-The ninjas show up at the last minute because they needed something at the last minute. I guess Matt resolves to stop being a lawyer and being a full-time vigilante now.
I guess the last part is what they were trying to work up to but it didn't feel like it all came together, and it doesn't get any time to sink in because hey the power's out and the ninjas are back and Foggy is probably in trouble and so is the rest of Metro General. So it's not like he's had the chance to distance himself from his friends (to keep them safe) and then get inevitably pulled back into it anyway. It just happens in the next beat. If that wasn't the point of the episode then I dunno what it was really about other than an hour of setup that had no real glue to hold it together and exists solely for the viewer to wait for the pieces to fall.