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Matt Cassamassina: "Wii is $50 too expensive and three weeks too late."
- Thread starter QuickKick89
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SuperPac
Member
quetz67 said:
I'm not going to disagree with you because yeah the initial games don't really do "pro" controls. That's kind of not what those games are about. If you're looking for "party" games that offer pro control you're probably asking too much at this point. Not to say it won't come later. Zelda's a bit of an easy target because it's a GameCube game that's been restyled for Wii controls. It's hard to expect anything *but* standard sword slashes out of it, quite frankly. But you look at impressions on here from the Gamestop conference about Wii Bowling and how you can put "spin" on the ball, etc., you begin to see glimpses that Wiimote controls will advance moving forward. Wii Tennis may not have it but that's not to say a Tennis game can't be made that does take better advantage.
What I'm looking for with Zelda is a game that will get me using Wiimote and Nunchuk for standard gameplay and will output at 16:9/480p. Since the swordslashes are the same in both, why the hell wouldn't you get it on Wii? Eventually you're going to be playing a Zelda that will use the Wiimote and Nunchuk, so may as well get used to it now.
Bluemercury
Member
quetz67 said:
The problem is that new tech will always be used for visuals, i dont see how different motorstorm is from other racing games except graphics, still it looks incredible but there doesnt seem to be any new gameplay innovation, of course the ps3 pad can be used to do things a bit different and innovative.
Also if wii is overpriced which may actually be, then ps3 is also overpriced, its still a damn toy. MS with x360 seems to be the one with the better price.
StevieP said:
Uhm, if you think that's going to change on the grand scale because you are pretending to mime to actions of a tennis player, you're mistaken. Because if you want to not get those looks, you'll go and play real tennis. Gaming is mainstream, it's engrained in pop culture and big game news can even become big news stories. It's just that grandma doesn't play games like she would watch a movie, but that's because gaming is a toy. I don't know how Wii making gaming even MORE of a toy will do for mainstream gaming - over 160,000,000 gamers worldwide, and that's probably not including the solitare set - but it certainly isn't because social people are going to want to go out and be social. That's not gamings fault.
StevieP said:
No, it's not a next-gen system. It's a current gen system. It just happens to be the most powerful current gen system on the market. It's not even in the same stratosphere. It's not even in the same galaxy. It's not even in the same damn universe... as 360/PS3. If we're defining generations by power, which in the conversation is assumed, we can safely and correctly state where Wii lies. Arbitrary labels like "2x the power of Gamecube" means nothing in terms of the systems graphical output.
StevieP said:
It's not like being 'awkward' was overted anyway :lol
quetz67 said:
Well, the 360 and PS3 have to render 3 times as many pixels, and shade 3 times as many pixels as the Wii. It's all about what you use that power for. The Wii is relegated to ED resolutions, so you simply don't need the same level of power to pull off decent visuals. Mind you, those visuals will never be as nice as the other 2 systems, but that doesn't mean it's current gen.
You're also forgetting how crippled (in-order, lack of dynamic branch prediction, etc - all bad for physics and AI processing) the PowerPC Processing Elements ("PPE") chips inside the PS3 and 360 are in comparison to a real PowerPC chip. The "3.2ghz" isn't comparable to the 3.2ghz in a P4, for instance. The Wii uses a PPC 750 CX/GX, so it also has the advantage of having a full PPC instruction and feature set. Bottom line, the Wii isn't as crippled as many of you make it out to be, despite it clearly being inferior to the other 2 systems. This isn't "last gen with a wand", it's somewhere in between (obviously closer to last gen than this gen). I'd say the controller puts it into a "stratosphere" above the other 2 systems in terms of capability to immerse you into a title, if it's used properly.
Actually, the RAM setup's been basically rehauled... the slow ass 24MB A-RAM is now 64MB GDDR3, and is accessable by all the chips (so it's useful for more than just texture caching and audio) and it still retains GameCube's excellent main RAM setup (super fast 24MB 1T-SRAM plus 3MB embedded DRAM on the GPU). Basically it's like having the GC and Xbox RAM solutions combined in one machine. Memory wise, Wii is probably more generously positioned for it's CPU/GPU than any other console in history.quetz67 said:
But no, the system at large isn't anywhere near ture nexygen platforms like PS3 or 360 (it's even a slight step down from "halfway" arcade solutions like LindBergh and Type-X2)... but there's more simply "doubled" RAM here.
[/RAM nazi]
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
jehuty said:
Yet another poorly constructed Junior Member post.
Sorry but Nintendo isn't the best thing since sliced bread. There are detractors of all three consoles. No console will ever be perfect. Wii's Xbox like performance is the biggest drawback. Paying $250 for an Xbox plus a new controller isn't exactly a hot deal.
I wouldn't talk like this would revolutionize gaming. 120-140 million consoles between the PS2, Xbox, and GC have been sold. Wii's new aims will only attract a few million more. Yes, the non-hardcore talk about graphics. I hardly consider myself a hardcore gamer and my friends barely play games at all. Yet, they all like the look of PS3 and 360 graphics.
All the women I am in contact with don't give a shit about the Wii or DS either. They'd rather be playing The Sims 2, if anything at all.
This new "non-gamer" audience will pull in only a few million people at most. The so called hardcore audience will continue to purchase machines and will be the voice of what games are produced.
Yes because its a matter of being social vs. isolated.
I have yet to hear anyone talk shit to anyone for wanting to play Halo with friends. I do understand the idea that people are giving shit to those who spend their free nights in their room playing <game>, completely isolated.
Humans are social creatures, whether you want to admit it or not. Gaming is not typically a social activity. So it gets made fun of.
I was just going off the summer EGM article, where Aouna highlighted WFC content as one of the differentiating factors between the Wii and GC versions (along with widescreen and interfaces). If you have a more recent interview that disputes that though, it's likely been cut.Amir0x said:
I also imagine if we're really getting Metal Slug Anthology at launch now, it's WFC content has probably been cut as well. Shame Nintendo couldn't get their network technology in place in time... I bet we'd have also gotten PSU on Wii if they had.
SuperPac
Member
The Experiment said:
And paying $500 for a Blu-Ray player with a game console attached to it is?
Consoles are more than specs alone.We won't know for sure until it's out and more people have tried it, but whatever. Non-gamers play Zuma on their cell phones, they play it on their computer, etc. Those are people that don't necessarily care about ZOMG graphics, they care about fun. IF Nintendo is able to deliver something they're interested in, then we'll see just how many people will bite. Even if it attracts a "few million more," it's growing the market more than efforts of Microsoft or Sony.
Probably. But who'da thunk people would want a handheld that has two screens and a touchpad? I never thought that'd be useful to my gaming either. Yet it is. And you can't really estimate how many people are in the "non-gamer" audience because a new console has never been made with that audience in mind.
As I said, I think the Wii wont be a success IF it doesnt go beyond being only a gimmick.SuperPac said:
It is used for graphics and physics and I am a 'physics whore' (since Trespasser and Wave Race), so yes it makes a huge difference for me.
That is a point (I actually used this point often to defend Wii) but it isnt the full truth. PS3 and x360 dont use all the power they have over their predecessors only to render the 3 times more (1080p even more) pixels.
And exactly here is what I dont understand. Nintendo could have asked IBM to give them the same CPU as the 360 has, just as slower clock speed. Add to that the same graphics chip as 360 at lower clock speed and half the RAM of 360 and they could have build a console for $250 that could have had 1:1 ports of all the games only at 480p. That way they would have had the advantages of the Wiimote PLUS the advantages of next gen power. But instead they opted to have only one and instead make some $100 profit per console.
Who has the Wii SDK in here? Can anyone tell me for certain that ALL that the chips received was a bump in clockspeed, that they are otherwise exactly the same as the Gamecube? I mean, there isn't a single new feature on the GPU or CPU? Sure, the launch games are Gamecube+ ports, but stuff like Mario Galaxy (which couldn't be done on the XBox in its current form, physics included) leads me to believe that there is more to be unlocked than there was on the Gamecube.
The Experiment FTW! Using anecdotal evidence ("the women I'm in contact with dont' give a shit about the DS!") is a perfect way of bringing your opinion accross. Shall I counter it with my own anecdotal evidence? My parents play Brain Age. My girlfriend, a lapsed NES/SNES gamer, bought a DS *AND* a DS Lite. What does that mean? Nothing. Just that 150 million people worldwide ISN'T anywhere near mainstream - but the DS is selling to people who aren't *in* the mainstream. Will the Wii? Who knows. Who cares? Making assumptions like "it may attract a few million more" means nothing until we actually find out in a few years whether it has.
But what irks me most is that the Nintendo "detractors" as you put them, always describe the Wii as an XBox with a new control pad, when you're getting more than that. Amir0x, I know you don't like Wii Sports, but you have to recognize that it's worth $30. The controller, if it succeeds, will be the biggest step in videogame control since analog sticks - and that took a lot of R&D, which is also reflected in the price of the Wii. The system isn't just about the visuals, it's the experience it is capable of providing. Whether the launch titles deliver that experience remains to be seen, but by all of the hands-on accounts we've gotten, we're well on our way to hitting that next level of game immersion. It's not VR, or a holodeck, but it's a step in the right direction. The people calling it "waggle" and a "gimmick" were the same people that were shut up by the DS relegating the PSP to a niche market. Will the Wii accomplish the same? Nobody knows, but if the hype is anything to go by, it stands a chance.
The Experiment FTW! Using anecdotal evidence ("the women I'm in contact with dont' give a shit about the DS!") is a perfect way of bringing your opinion accross. Shall I counter it with my own anecdotal evidence? My parents play Brain Age. My girlfriend, a lapsed NES/SNES gamer, bought a DS *AND* a DS Lite. What does that mean? Nothing. Just that 150 million people worldwide ISN'T anywhere near mainstream - but the DS is selling to people who aren't *in* the mainstream. Will the Wii? Who knows. Who cares? Making assumptions like "it may attract a few million more" means nothing until we actually find out in a few years whether it has.
But what irks me most is that the Nintendo "detractors" as you put them, always describe the Wii as an XBox with a new control pad, when you're getting more than that. Amir0x, I know you don't like Wii Sports, but you have to recognize that it's worth $30. The controller, if it succeeds, will be the biggest step in videogame control since analog sticks - and that took a lot of R&D, which is also reflected in the price of the Wii. The system isn't just about the visuals, it's the experience it is capable of providing. Whether the launch titles deliver that experience remains to be seen, but by all of the hands-on accounts we've gotten, we're well on our way to hitting that next level of game immersion. It's not VR, or a holodeck, but it's a step in the right direction. The people calling it "waggle" and a "gimmick" were the same people that were shut up by the DS relegating the PSP to a niche market. Will the Wii accomplish the same? Nobody knows, but if the hype is anything to go by, it stands a chance.
To be fair, you're really paying for an Xbox with full WiFi wireless (controllers and networking), free online gaming, free online channels (myspace derivative, chat, browsing, weather, news, etc), full GameCube playback, Virtual Console access, a better memory setup/more balanced architecture, internal flash, real USB ports, an SD card port for expandable memory, a slot loading drive plus a new innovative controller. I guess you lose the 4GB HDD though.The Experiment said:
As is though, the Xbox comes in only $70 cheaper than Wii... throw in a year of live and you're only $20 cheaper. :/
I stand corrected about Nintendogs outselling New Super Mario Brothers, but if you really think about it, is Nintendogs a 'game'?
I mean, don't get me wrong, I have Japanese Brain Age and I absolutely love it, I play that thing every morning on my way to work. But I don't really consider it a game, as much as a tool for practicing Japanese.
Likewise, Nintendogs doesn't really feel like a 'game' to me. I know many girls who bought the game and a DS because it's cute and they have expendable income. I wonder how many of them bought other games for the system. For them, a DS is a Nintendogs player.
For many people who bought Brain Age, the DS is just a Brain Age simulator.
------
Back on topic:
I think the Wii has the potential to give the player new experiences that they haven't had in a game before. It will take some immensely creative and talented developers with a solid vision to do that. I sincerely hope they can, and while doing so, stay away from gimmicks.
The PS3/360 has a different potential. The raw processing power could be harnessed in many different ways, for example, to create living, breathing, dynamic worlds. This power can potentially help developers create new and entirely different gameplay experiences for the player. A well done multimedia presentation DOES matter when creating an experience for the player.
My main problem with Wii is the precision of the controller. It's great for party games, or games that don't highly emphasize skill. But if the controller isn't precise enough, I'm afraid those are the only types of games we'll ever see on the system. Take a fighting game like Virtua Fighter or Tekken. The precision required to play those games at a high level is amazing. Obviously, fighting game players are a smaller, hardcore market, but that doesn't mean they aren't important.
Can the Wii controller deliver that kind of precise control? Think back to the tennis game argument. If I try to swing the controller in a precise, skillful way, and it achieves the same results as limply flicking my wrist, there's no learning curve, there's no way to get better, and I'll subsequently get very bored after playing twice. Good games are easy to pick up, but subsequently get difficult and force the player to get better. SSMB is a good example of a Nintendo game that is very simple to play... but good people will wipe the floor with you.
If the Wii is going to be any more than a 'casual' system, devs. will need to make games that have enough gameplay depth to appeal to 'core gamers', ie. the people who post on this site. Nintendo can continue to succeed financially with party games... but artistically I want games to be elevated beyond just toys.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I have Japanese Brain Age and I absolutely love it, I play that thing every morning on my way to work. But I don't really consider it a game, as much as a tool for practicing Japanese.
Likewise, Nintendogs doesn't really feel like a 'game' to me. I know many girls who bought the game and a DS because it's cute and they have expendable income. I wonder how many of them bought other games for the system. For them, a DS is a Nintendogs player.
For many people who bought Brain Age, the DS is just a Brain Age simulator.
------
Back on topic:
I think the Wii has the potential to give the player new experiences that they haven't had in a game before. It will take some immensely creative and talented developers with a solid vision to do that. I sincerely hope they can, and while doing so, stay away from gimmicks.
The PS3/360 has a different potential. The raw processing power could be harnessed in many different ways, for example, to create living, breathing, dynamic worlds. This power can potentially help developers create new and entirely different gameplay experiences for the player. A well done multimedia presentation DOES matter when creating an experience for the player.
My main problem with Wii is the precision of the controller. It's great for party games, or games that don't highly emphasize skill. But if the controller isn't precise enough, I'm afraid those are the only types of games we'll ever see on the system. Take a fighting game like Virtua Fighter or Tekken. The precision required to play those games at a high level is amazing. Obviously, fighting game players are a smaller, hardcore market, but that doesn't mean they aren't important.
Can the Wii controller deliver that kind of precise control? Think back to the tennis game argument. If I try to swing the controller in a precise, skillful way, and it achieves the same results as limply flicking my wrist, there's no learning curve, there's no way to get better, and I'll subsequently get very bored after playing twice. Good games are easy to pick up, but subsequently get difficult and force the player to get better. SSMB is a good example of a Nintendo game that is very simple to play... but good people will wipe the floor with you.
If the Wii is going to be any more than a 'casual' system, devs. will need to make games that have enough gameplay depth to appeal to 'core gamers', ie. the people who post on this site. Nintendo can continue to succeed financially with party games... but artistically I want games to be elevated beyond just toys.
plagiarize
Banned
you think guitar hero is a gimmick though. it's certainly a success and i'm pretty sure that everyone like me that enjoys it don't think it's a gimmick.quetz67 said:
whether or not the system fails isn't going to be based on whether or not you think it's games are gimmicky but whether or not people on a whole think the games are gimmicky.
$100 profit per console you are guessing. you don't know, i don't know.
quetz67 said:
If you're a physics whore, get a PC. The main CPU (the PPE) in the 360/PS3 are terrible for processing physics in comparison to the x86 CPUs currently in the market. They are not full-blown PowerPCs (they are stripped down) and the developers will have to try really hard to have really well-done physics on either machine. The SPE's are pretty useless in that regard on the PS3 as well.
I wouldn't WANT the Wii to have the same PPE-class chip as the 360. It has a G3-based Power PC, which clock-for-clock murders the PPE. Of course it's clocked much lower than the 3.2ghz PPE, so a valid comparison can't be made. But if you're a graphics/physics whore you should definately invest in a good gaming PC.
As for the GPU - how do you KNOW for certain that the Wii's GPU has no new features? What we're seeing now is Gamecube games, pretty much - there are only a couple games that have been made for the Wii from scratch (SMG) and you can tell that there are some improved shader effects and impressive physics.
In order for the Wii to have any price advantage over the competition (and the ability to drop it at a whim to appease the mainstream), this is the level of power the Wii had to be relegated to. It's not only for the system cost, though - it's for dev costs. If you're a developer, you'd realize that costs of "next gen" games are WAAY too much, and the focus on visuals is detracting from every other aspect of game design. Simply put, devs are taking a lot less risks, so machines like the DS and Wii are necessary for games like Katamari to ever exist again. If you think Nintendo is making $100 per system, you are also likely overshooting it. I'd say closer to $40-50 per system, though if you take R&D and advertising costs into perspective it may be even less. The only people that really know are Nintendo, however.
Where does it say anywhere in my post that Nintendos Wii is the best thing since sliced bread? I simply stated that the control mechanism they are implementing with the Wii will probably attract new gamers because of its simplicity.
I dont know how many new gamers the Wii will bring into the fold. But here's the thing, neither do you The Experiment. Who knows what might happen, video game consoles dont sell themselves, it the games and the way you control those said games that are on that console that do.
And as I stated before, graphics do matter. I like good graphics as much as the next person but i understaand that Nintendo is not targetting the HD set of gamers. Is $250 for a Wii too much? If you believe all the Wii is a gamecube turbo with a "waggle" remote then probably. And if you really feel that way about the Wii then there is a perfectly good option available to you, dont buy one.
I dont know how many new gamers the Wii will bring into the fold. But here's the thing, neither do you The Experiment. Who knows what might happen, video game consoles dont sell themselves, it the games and the way you control those said games that are on that console that do.
And as I stated before, graphics do matter. I like good graphics as much as the next person but i understaand that Nintendo is not targetting the HD set of gamers. Is $250 for a Wii too much? If you believe all the Wii is a gamecube turbo with a "waggle" remote then probably. And if you really feel that way about the Wii then there is a perfectly good option available to you, dont buy one.
Systems_id
Banned
Seeing how Blu-Ray players alone are still $1000+, yeah, yeah it is. If we're also talking about games then I'd say it's a steal since the PS3 is likely to have at least twice as many games as the Wii will have.SuperPac said:And paying $500 for a Blu-Ray player with a game console attached to it is?
Systems_id said:
Standalone players ALWAYS > game consoles with media playback. AV quality-wise, and build-quality wise that has always been the case.
And how do you figure that the PS3 will have twice as many games as the Wii? If anything, the Wii will become the PS2 of this upcoming generation in terms of game variety and selection, due to the fact that dev studios can pump them out much quicker than PS3 titles, and for a fraction of the price.
Bluemercury
Member
Systems_id said:
DVD right now its more than enough.....this ps3 thing with blue-ray is just Sony atempt to win over hd-dvd for the next standard format.....
Nintendo never said they were making profit on hardware hell Perrin says in an interview that combined with software sales they would see profit with the Wii platform. Wii doesn't use GDDR3 so stop using the bunk specs that were posted as a reference point. You can find the 750CL specs at IBM proving what Matt of IGN said about the broadway being based from is true, lets shoot that dumb just an OC argument out the window. I don't see how on earth people can try to stack an xbox up against the Wii. GC and Xbox offered great visuals and there is less than a handful of games on the system that can stack up to RE, TP, RS like riddick or SC:CT. So how is a system that couldn't outdo the cube at little more than half it specs gonna take on a system that has more ram, a far better better cpu (CL not CXe), and GPU that's been beefed up from what little vids or tech specs info we have seen. Cube in no way could do MP3, SMG, SSBB, or Excite Truck all 4 games have sported effects that were never that good or well done on the GC. Is Wii in the league of PS3 or 360 no, but there isn't a current gen system that can match it or even compete with it.
Pimpbaa
Member
jarrod said:
It had 16MB of A-RAM and was used for disc caching (why loading was so fast on the GC, the actual disc drive in the GC was the slowest of last gen hardware) and audio. That A-RAM was so slow, it was useless for the most part except for those 2 things I mentioned. The GC was majorly gimped in regards to ram. To have 64MB of fast ram in it's place should allow developers to get much more out of the hardware.
gamergirly
Member
Lapsed said:
Im getting a PS3 with a Wii, so my "graphics/power & rpg" evil side is satisfied
j/k. But I think they are intimidated by what is going to happen IF Wii is successful. For one thing, alot of female/non-gamer/etc are going to be brought into the CONSOLE gaming industry. That will change what games some companies are going to offer in order to cater to them.Another factor is that it will show that you dont need "so called next-gen technology" in order to be successful. Many developers will take an interest and produce more games for the Wii. And more people will be satisfied with the Wii and not "need" to buy a PS3/360 to feel "popular". Mindshare is a big factor for many hardcore gamers. What system theyre going to get has more weight than what games theyre going to buy.
plagiarize
Banned
espescially the bit about how i think a light bulb is brighter than the sun.jarrod said:
that wasn't a waste of time at all nor something i regret getting into now at all.
Christopher
Member
jehuty said:
um that's not why most people don't play videogames...pressing buttons and moving a stick are hardly what I call hard. Stop trying so hard.
CabbageRed
Member
psy18 said:
I haven't read the thread and came in hoping to poke fun of the "you can't fight the truth, IGN" guy. However, I can tell you what happened in this thread. Matt said something that some agreed with, some disagreed with, and to which others had mixed reactions. At some point, one of these people read a reply with something that they disagreed with. It was a bit of a tangent but it quickly escalated into a debate. As the debate heated, more extreme things were said which brought new people into the fight. Then people (like me!) came in a lorded over people with snide remarks and vanished from the thread to show that they are above the rest. At some point this thread will be locked and GAF will live unhappily over and over again. The end.
KTallguy said:
Thank you.
Yehats are my favorite! I love their 'theme song'. Plus, they bring in the Revolution. gamergirly said:Im getting a PS3 with a Wii, so my "graphics/power & rpg" evil side is satisfied
You mean young males (who are currently seen as nerds) don't want girls and older people to play games too? They don't want to break the 'stigma' associated with gamers?
Surely you jest! A real gamer would want to spread gaming to everyone.
What! You mean gaming is in the entertainment business and not the technology business? Oh, I am shocked!
StevieP said:
She have a sister? Sounds like my dream come true. :lol
jarrod said:
how do you sleep at night? wi-fi chipsets, dvd drives, and flash memory are not "major costs," even at retail prices. and the only component of the controller that might be expensive is the infrared camera. in any case i bet they're making a big profit off $40 waggle wands.
and wii isn't remotely comparable to lindbergh. lindbergh uses a 6800 gt and wii uses flipper turbo. that's a difference three or four graphics card generations. or just look at vf5. whichever.
Pimpbaa
Member
jarrod said:
disc buffering? Either way, that was one of it's main purposes (other than sound data). You said it was used for texture caching which is just silly because it's far too slow for that. Texture caching was done in the GPUs embedded ram.
Edit: I'm an idiot. You were referring to yourself.
Christopher said:
No, most people don't play videogames because most videogames (I did not say all) are fundamentally un-fun. Which is the whole point behind Nintendo's Wii philosophy.
For example:
A joy-joy time can be had by anyone with a copy of WarioWare and some friends, but can something like Saint's Row truly be considered fun? Isn't it just another fine example of the recycled, been-there-done-that gaming that has plagued the current generation of consoles?
gamergirly
Member
Lapsed said:You mean young males (who are currently seen as nerds) don't want girls and older people to play games too? They don't want to break the 'stigma' associated with gamers?
Surely you jest! A real gamer would want to spread gaming to everyone.
What I meant is the fact that the male hardcore gamer might not be the ONLY audience most companies target from here on out. You sure it doesnt intimidate you to have a female version of Halo or GTA down the line, for example?
You must be pretty shocked. Shocked enough not to know the answer to a question you asked
Christopher
Member
Boerseun said:
The question is do you think someone not meaning you, I mean Average Joe is going to pay 250 dollars + get the nunchuck + get a game = about 300 something dollars for an oversimplified game?
cbrotherson
Member
gamergirly said:Im getting a PS3, so my "graphics/power" evil side is satisfied
Another factor is that it will show that you dont need "so called next-gen technology" in order to be successful. Many developers will take an interest and produce more games for the Wii. And more people will be satisfied with the Wii and not "need" to buy a PS3/360 to feel "popular"
Exactly. I personally think these things are going to happen now, for certain, especially the former. The whole '3 generation curse' thing is mostly when the industry needs a demographic shift and companies start focusing on different audiences (we went from gamers, to expanded gamers, to casual and adult gamers and now to female/non/lapsed gamers). This is the new target audience because games companies on a whole have been trying to find it for years, along with other companies like Yahoo, MiniClip and other sites that do 'casual' games - the last 3 years have been projection years by those companies (as I was working for Yahoo at the time) as a means for market expansion. Nintendo realised this and hopped on board with the DS. It'll do exactly the same with Wii and given other companies are aiming for the same audience that sustained the industry for the last 10 years (typical length of time for a cycle change), this is exactly the reason Wii will succeed. It's the same market tactic used by every single dominant publisher in the console industry. It's what got Atari to where it was before Nintendo superseded it, then Sega (in Europe), then Sony. Fresh meat always wins the console race, and those who get to it first capture the first generation of that era.
The funny thing is, there's always an outreach to that 'new' market in the prior generation, but the new market is too unaware to make it boom. Hence the reason EyeToy and SingStar -as popular as they are- never reached the mass market in the way they should have, had there been any justice (along with other reasons that are less well documented). Innovation is one thing, but reaching a new market needs a push that a new console can provide (with the ingrained support of third parties to follow). In Europe, Singstar and EyeToy were pushed with the slimline PS2 and helped shift more units. Had it been a 'new console' effect, without the regular pad and a greater range of titles from the off, the effect would have been much larger. Nintendo could have relaunched GC with the waggle-wand and got the same effect, which is to say, very little compared to a new console with built in support for third parties along with the new console advantages.
I can understand the fear of some gamers not wanting to shift the market demographic from what we're used to into what will now become the dominant genre (ie cheap, easily produced, quick and simple titles). But the rest of the other genres wont go away. Sure, we'll see more Wario Ware/Wii Sports and other waggle game clones than ever before (as they'll be among the defining genres for this new generation, along with whatever new genres are eventually created), but just as we did this generation we'll not see a lack of everything else just because the level of GTA (one of this generation's defining genre's, along with survival horror, R.action games and so on) clones.
Very interesting times ahead.
CabbageRed
Member
psy18 said:
Oops!
Sorry, I sometimes don't understand when people are kidding around. Im a little slow with that kinda thing.
SuperPac
Member
Hatorade said:
Actually yes they did. Reggie told Reuters that Nintendo would be making a profit on Wii, hardware and software, on day one. There's a quote floating around somewhere, but they did say it.
drohne said:
Who cares? Do you choose what you buy/don't buy based on the price of materials? Most of the things you buy are sold at some kind of profit even if the cost of materials is low. If you're going to get $250 worth of entertainment out of it then the price is justified.
Christopher said:
I've seen people pay for PS2 + 2 dance pads + DDR, that being the ONLY game they're interested in. So, yes.
From my understanding, the slot loading drive is a bit more expensive than the usual tray load DVD fare you might find in 360 or PS2. It may just be a few dollars difference in bulk, but then those dollars tend to add up.drohne said:
As do WiFi, internal flash and other components Wii has over last gen consoles (PSP's WiFi chip evidently costs more than it's "impressive" MIPS based CPU/VME/GPU combo). That's the point when comparing Wii to say Xbox (which eats a loss at $180 even), the chipset isn't the driving factor when it comes to costs, it's the extraneous components that add up. It's sort of interesting actually... outside the main chipset and memory, Wii basically offers higher end/ costlier components for everything else in the console versus a standard Xbox 360 even.
Likely still significantly less than $50 wireless Xpads though.drohne said:
Like I said, LB is basically a half generation platform when compared to the new consoles... though Wii is squarely last gen. It's the comparable NeoGeo of last gen, but still last gen.drohne said:
I'm calling you out on this one becuase your dead wrong.Christopher said:
You, me, and certainly GAF takes for granted the using of a controller, and its complexity, becuase most everyone in gaming, and certainly we here at GAF have grown up with the controller, and its many evolvments.
Non-gamers do not understand, nor do they even want to try and figure out how to use a controller. I have seen it first hand many times where someone who doesnt play videogames, looks interested, but as soon as you hand them a controller, they give up.
You say "pressing buttons" "moving a stick" That shows the exact attitude that in exclusive, not inclusive.
Its a hell of alot harder for atari players, non-gamers to pick up and use a modern controller, let alone have the time to invest to get good at it. Most throw thier hands up and give up.
gamergirly
Member
cbrotherson said:
That's a great point. It shoulnt be hard to understand what Sony did to the market back in 1995 from what Nintendo might do with Wii in 2006. Expand the market. From how Nintendo sees it, those that want a continuation of last gen has 2 companies to go to. For everyone that wants something different AND their games, they have a console to go to. It's as simple as that. It'll be a great thing if the market gets extended. Just to see what new gaming concepts companies come up with.
It's all about the bunnies!!!
http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/734/734714/rayman-blog-20060922052120233-000.jpg
http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/734/734714/rayman-blog-20060922052120233-000.jpg
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