plagiarize
Banned
fixed.Pureauthor said:
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Matt Cassamassina: "Wii is $50 too expensive and three weeks too late."
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Pureauthor
Member
Give me an example of a wrong opinion. Just one.
plagiarize
Banned
in my opinion the sun isn't as bright as a lightbulb.Pureauthor said:
Pureauthor
Member
plagiarize said:
It can be proven wrong. Thus, not an opinion.
Pureauthor said:
You know what a sophism is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophism
Actually, if you commit a sophism in/by your opinion (especially when arguing with opinions like here on GAF) you're wrong.
plagiarize
Banned
if your definition of 'opinion' is 'something that cannot be proven wrong' then yeah, of course you'll never accept ANY opinion as being wrong, because you'll argue that it isn't an opinion and yet MANY people have opinions that can be proven wrong.Pureauthor said:
Pureauthor
Member
Sophism (in the modern sense) is that the validity of an argument is irrelevant if I can get the majority to agree with me, is that it?
I'm not sure how that jives with the simple fact that by definition an opinion cannot be either right or wrong.
And if we're pulling Wikipedia into this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion
I'm not sure how that jives with the simple fact that by definition an opinion cannot be either right or wrong.
And if we're pulling Wikipedia into this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion
Wikipedia said:
plagiarize
Banned
by *your* definition.Pureauthor said:
an opinion is a judgement based on what a person knows right? not all opinions are equally educated.
look at it this way. right now, a lot of people have opinions one way or the other on global warming. are the actions of man a factor or not?
while we don't know the answer yet, there *is* a single answer to that question. one set of peoples opinions are wrong, albeit it unprovable at this moment in time.
now, if someone doesn't have all the facts yet still forms an opinion, can their opinion be wrong? of course it can.
Duane Cunningham
Member
LakeEarth said:
Correct. Zelda is for the gamer. Wii Sports is for the gamer's friends. Those are the two games I'll have at launch. I can't wait for Zelda, but I'll be playing that by myself at night. Wii Sports is the game I'll be showing off to/playing with my female roommate and my non-gamer friends. Hell, it'll be fun just to make Miis of everyone. Somebody amongst them will buy a Wii for themselves as a result. They won't do it on the way home from my apartment; they'll probably do it next year when it drops to $229 or $199.
Pureauthor said:
The sophism of majority is only one of MANY sophism you can make therefore model wrong opinions out of them.
Have your research buddy, i won't give you a class here that's for sure. It's a complex matter. I gave you a path there for your research though.
In the meantime, believe us, an opinion can be invalid and wrong (or both)
Maximilian
DIYMF Alumni
Ugh, typical Matt. He wrings his hands, talks about how he could do it better and then says "Don't despair! Nintendo could still be #1!!!"
I agree on some points, namely the cost of the controller, nunchuck and then having to buy a classic controller too... (Hell, are any of us thrilled about this?) But we were warned that the controller is pretty cutting edge technology and would cost a lot. Still, all of this makes the system cheaper than a 360 or PS3 with similar accessories and games. It's more than I wanted to pay to be sure but I don't believe this spells TEH DOOM!!11 for Nintendo.
The launch date is a little questionable too, but hey, where are all the people who couldn't snag a PS3 going to go after being turned down at the last minute on the 17th? Maybe not for a Wii, But maybe some will...
I agree on some points, namely the cost of the controller, nunchuck and then having to buy a classic controller too... (Hell, are any of us thrilled about this?) But we were warned that the controller is pretty cutting edge technology and would cost a lot. Still, all of this makes the system cheaper than a 360 or PS3 with similar accessories and games. It's more than I wanted to pay to be sure but I don't believe this spells TEH DOOM!!11 for Nintendo.
The launch date is a little questionable too, but hey, where are all the people who couldn't snag a PS3 going to go after being turned down at the last minute on the 17th? Maybe not for a Wii, But maybe some will...
Pureauthor
Member
plagiarize said:
Okay, then that depends entirely on whether you define an opinion is something that isn't right or wrong, or isn't proven right or wrong.
I'm willing to concede that point, but it doesn't really help here, since I'm not sure how we're going to 'prove' that there have been fresh and creative games out for the current gen consoles. :lol
Then like I said before, give me an example of a wrong opinion.
SuperPac
Member
It's hard to say before the marketing, advertising, etc. have started what the barrier price for casuals will be. I think you're underestimating what the casual market will pay if Nintendo is able to establish Wii as a product that offers a good value for the money versus other entertainment options.
- It doesn't take up much space
- Comes with a game
- No memory cards or hard drives to buy to get started
- Easy to use -- everyone's familiar with a remote
- Offers some cool Internet/web functionality
- Virtual console offers downloading of classics for inexpensive pricing
- Half the price of PS3
- Not forcing you to pay for HD tech if you don't have it / need it
- A communal experience, one that the whole family can enjoy
- Backward compatible with previous generation games and accessories (neither of the other consoles are to the same degree without tacking on additional cost)
For Wii, it's going to be all about the message and experience and whether casual players are receptive to it. But it will for sure get better play in the mass media than PS3 merely because you could toss Matt Lauer and Al Roker Wiimotes and have them playing Tennis without holding the controllers like they're some alien object.
- It doesn't take up much space
- Comes with a game
- No memory cards or hard drives to buy to get started
- Easy to use -- everyone's familiar with a remote
- Offers some cool Internet/web functionality
- Virtual console offers downloading of classics for inexpensive pricing
- Half the price of PS3
- Not forcing you to pay for HD tech if you don't have it / need it
- A communal experience, one that the whole family can enjoy
- Backward compatible with previous generation games and accessories (neither of the other consoles are to the same degree without tacking on additional cost)
For Wii, it's going to be all about the message and experience and whether casual players are receptive to it. But it will for sure get better play in the mass media than PS3 merely because you could toss Matt Lauer and Al Roker Wiimotes and have them playing Tennis without holding the controllers like they're some alien object.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
drohne said:
No it doesn't. I think the Wii hardware is a ripoff for the price, myself (even if I am blind). However it was simply getting ridiculous whenever someone said "hey that looks nice [for Wii]" and some shithead would say "LOLZ IT SUX NOTHING NEAR 360! ****ING NITNENDO FANSBOYS LOLZOLZOLZ".
gamergirly
Member
Duane Cunningham said:
Pretty much
plagiarize
Banned
i can give you a real world example. i knew a kid at school and in his opinion the master system was more powerful than the SNES.Pureauthor said:
no shit.
people believe all sorts of crazy things. and i'm done with this side argument for anyone annoyed.
Pureauthor
Member
*beats head against a wall*
It's factually incorrect to claim the Master System is more powerful than the SNES.
That is not an opinion. It's a statement/truth claim.
But we're not going to agree, are we? Agree to disagree it is.
*extends hands*
Shake?
It's factually incorrect to claim the Master System is more powerful than the SNES.
That is not an opinion. It's a statement/truth claim.
But we're not going to agree, are we? Agree to disagree it is.
*extends hands*
Shake?
Does anyone *seriously* believe, in five years, when we run across our Wii in the closet, covered with dust, we're gonna be like "man, if only it had come out 21 days earlier... everything would have been ok..."
OK, and just for the record, I'm *not* saying I think Wii's will be in closets, covered in dust in 5 years. My point is, we get all hot and bothered about these tiny launch details (OMG! No USB cable explicitly announced for PS3! d00m3d! OMFG! etc.) and in the long run, I'd argue the second Christmas is much more important for a console's longevity than the first.
Lemme just channel Howard Lincoln for a second: At the end of the day, gamers care about the GAMES and an extra $50 and 21 days for the unit isn't going to make a rat's ass of difference to the console's long term success.
OK, and just for the record, I'm *not* saying I think Wii's will be in closets, covered in dust in 5 years. My point is, we get all hot and bothered about these tiny launch details (OMG! No USB cable explicitly announced for PS3! d00m3d! OMFG! etc.) and in the long run, I'd argue the second Christmas is much more important for a console's longevity than the first.
Lemme just channel Howard Lincoln for a second: At the end of the day, gamers care about the GAMES and an extra $50 and 21 days for the unit isn't going to make a rat's ass of difference to the console's long term success.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
LakeEarth said:
You know I couldn't find the sword past that tunnel in the Village for like 1-2 hours. I was like, ****, how did I miss this? I blame the textures.
I, of course, got to the fire temple on death mountain after like 2 straight days of playing.
Mejilan said:
I actually do blame Sony to a degree. If they'd released a higher quantity of launch systems and/or released them at a lower price, I think Nintendo would feel more pressure to release Wii earlier and at a more affordable price point. I think Nintendo though "Hell, only 400k and theyr'e expensive as all hell... we can release Wii as late as we want and not have to worry about people choosing between Wii and PS3".
plagiarize
Banned
matt cassamassassasinfrassinmina seems to think it's going to have an impact. but yeah. he's off his rocker on that one.ccharla said:
gamergirly
Member
skinnyrattler said:
It was a bit overwhelming in OOT at first. I couldnt find the sword either for a while after getting the Wooden Shield.
If the 360 had a price drop...the Wii's price would really look bad.
Laughably bad.
But it doesn't have one and I think from a value POV, once people can be sold that they are paying for a new way to play games, rather than a shiny new games machine with awesome graphics, they will see worth in it.
And this is coming from the most notorious and feared Nintendo basher on the Internet...
I'm not going to buy it until it reaches $150 though. I kinda spent a lot of money on an arcade machine earlier this year and my gaming budget is going to be maxed out if I do manage to find a PS3 at or near launch.
Laughably bad.
But it doesn't have one and I think from a value POV, once people can be sold that they are paying for a new way to play games, rather than a shiny new games machine with awesome graphics, they will see worth in it.
And this is coming from the most notorious and feared Nintendo basher on the Internet...
I'm not going to buy it until it reaches $150 though. I kinda spent a lot of money on an arcade machine earlier this year and my gaming budget is going to be maxed out if I do manage to find a PS3 at or near launch.
Pureauthor said:
OK. I'll look for them.
I'm looking forward to trying out Gradius V.ethelred said:
You are putting words in my mouth. Here's my problem:
NES/Gen/SNES games- Games could be beaten within a few hours except for some of the RPGs. Controls were relatively simple. I love the NES games due to their simplicity. Throw any NES game at me and I can begin playing it within minutes. It is simple.
32/64 bit and up- Most, if not all, games are in 3d and require many hours to invest just to get anywhere. Controls are complex. Sure there are great, original games. But it takes a considerable amount of effort and time to 'get into the game' so to say.
I LOVE Ikaruga. I LOVE Bomberman (the multiplayer). None of that requires me to spend days within one game. I even love F-Zero GX (even though it kicks my butt and I'm still learning the subtlety of the controls).
I prefer the earlier Zelda games over the later 3d ones. I don't want to learn new button configurations to ride a horse. I prefer 2d Mario over the 3d Marios. I did eventually play through Mario 64 but I doubt I'll ever replay the game. SMB 3 I will replay again and again.
After the 3d revolution, the consoles kept pushing that 3d technology. (I hate how Nintendo stopped making 2d Marios. When I found out NSMB was being made, I bought a DS.) Controllers just turned weird and HUGE. Now they have handles! :lol Before, controllers were just a sliver plastic you held in your hands. Now, it feels like the controller engulfs my hand. Even though there are things I like about the Wavebird, the size of the thing is absurd. (Yes, I took one look at the Xbox's 'duke' controller and went **** no!)
I just don't take gaming to be a 'serious' activity as some people do. I don't have the time to invest in a single game anymore. The 'epic' games ten years ago are seen as 'lol small and easy' games today. Final Fantasy on the SNES used to be EPIC. Today, they are seen as light portable games!
BTW, SNES wasn't my favorite console. It was the NES. There is some wild experimentation back then (especially C64 and some other PCs then) that I loved before gaming became entrenched within a few genres. I don't think its nostalgia because I still play the NES today. I hope the Wii will allow me to give my NES, my Genesis, and my SNES, the proper burial they deserve. *sniff* Good little friends.
Pureauthor said:
It's not just about HDTV though, there's a difference in power that I think may be visible even on SDTVs. Also, probably the strongest showcase for the Wii features, a game like Wii Sports, isn't exactly the best-looking game around. And one of the most sought-after games for Wii, Twilight Princess, looks like a Gamecube game. I think people will notice that, but maybe I'm just overestimating people.
jarrod said:
OK jarrod, my point was that it basically looks "current-gen", similar to Xbox, GC or even PS2. And it's still substantially more expensive than all of those. And why the hell are you dragging a handheld into all this?!
I'm not at all sure if Nintendo has gone to great lengths to explain how Wii works. I mean, yeah...at E3 and similar, where all the hardcore crowd hangs out, but I don't think that's nearly enough, especially when you consider that they're aiming to expand the market DS-style. What they need is TV commercials. I don't think you can illustrate how Wii works in print or similar. People need to see it in motion really.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
i actually think the wii's release date is timed just right.
they are trying to cut off ps3's hype train.. not bend to its will..
by the time the wii comes out.. the ps3 will be all but sold out.. with a massive media blitz for a new console that is readily available and less than half the price of the ps3.. i think they are going to do very well.
if they release before the ps3.. the wii will be completely overshadowed and forgotten.
they are trying to cut off ps3's hype train.. not bend to its will..
by the time the wii comes out.. the ps3 will be all but sold out.. with a massive media blitz for a new console that is readily available and less than half the price of the ps3.. i think they are going to do very well.
if they release before the ps3.. the wii will be completely overshadowed and forgotten.
Oblivion said:
See, I'm not saying there aren't going to BE commercials for Wii, and I'm not saying they should start showing commercials RIGHT NOW, but they need TV commercials or similar to get the point across regarding the unique functions of Wii. I would say even more than Sony needs it for Playstation 3. I mean, I think people generally realize that Playstation 3 is like Playstation 2 but better. But Wii isn't called 'Gamecube 2', it is, in certain ways, something entirely new that people would have no idea about unless they saw what it actually is and how it works.
My point was that it basically looks "current-gen", similar to Xbox, GC or even PS2. And it's still substantially more expensive than all of those. Like Wii.Kiriku said:
And all the advertsing materials we've seen so far (basically sample demo kiosks and promotional videos/commercials) largely focus on people actually using the controller. I'd expect the mass advertising campaign to be similar, literally showing people using the controller.Kiriku said:
Even press shots for magazines often feature some guy or girl tilting the remote in a corner box... I've yet to see any indication Nintendo or other companies are really planning on not showcasing what differntiates their Wii games from the pack. Ubisoft's press kits give a good indication, for better or worse.
jarrod said:
So you're saying consumers aren't aware of that the handheld market, that's been going on for lots of years, has always been lacking substantially in terms of power compared to consoles? I think you're really stretching it, because I'm confident most people view handhelds as a different market, and as such, PSP is definitely not "current-gen" in that context.
jarrod said:
See, that's what I was talking about. As long as they showcase it the right way. A way to fully appreciate what the wii controller can do in motion. I don't believe pictures showing people jumping around in their sofa swinging the wiimote around is enlightening in any way though. Hell, I've seen people doing that in printed ads with regular controllers. That's why I'm rootin' for motion material.
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