Finding new subscribers beyond the console ownership base has proven very difficult thus far.
Well, here’s a reason why MS stopped reporting GP numbers 10+ months ago.
Every company should double down on just making great games
Subs, GaaS, MTX…all a distraction from what matters
It is…. Unless you knock one out of the park.Every company should double down on just making great games
Subs, GaaS, MTX…all a distraction from what matters
It indicates that the subscription market has plateaued, no need to bring Sony here. Sony specifically stated multiple times that they’ve reached the limit of paid PS+ customers and additional tiers are here to increase revenue per user, not the number of users.Ya, ok, lol. 2%, such a massive decrease, and could early be Sony for doing silly things like pulling first parry games from the service.
I would agree on great games, however I would rather get more value from my dollar, so hard pass on eliminating subs. I easily get twice as many games for the same price and get to try ones I would not have.
It was a 2% increase and I don't buy what Matt is saying. When some actual good games hit you can still increase PC subscriptions. He will be singing a different tune soon enough.Ya, ok, lol. 2%, such a massive decrease, and could early be Sony for doing silly things like pulling first parry games from the service.
I get more value for my dollar on playing great games than eating at the equivalent of an all you can eat Chinese buffet
We both play great games, I just pay less overall per game. (assuming we both "eat" a lot of games)
I also generally don't have a lot of time to replay games, so that's in my favor. That and I will still strategically buy games on sale later on, even sometimes 2 or 3 years later but at 20% of the cost or less.
What great games did you play on subscription this year that’s even on par with RE4 remake, hogwarts, star wars jedi, zelda or diablo?We both play great games, I just pay less overall per game. (assuming we both "eat" a lot of games)
I also generally don't have a lot of time to replay games, so that's in my favor. That and I will still strategically buy games on sale later on, even sometimes 2 or 3 years later but at 20% of the cost or less.
..Finding new subscribers beyond the console ownership base has proven very difficult thus far.
"The business is selling software and services,"
"The business is not how many consoles you sell. The consoles are not where the profit in this side of the business is made, which is where the whole: ‘Who’s selling more consoles’ at any one time as the kind of root good of who is doing well in the business is just not true. You have other companies entering gaming who don’t even have a console as part of their equation. It’s all about how many games are people playing. And how much people are spending playing those games and how often they play."
.."but I don’t want my team’s focus on [console sales]."
“‘How many consoles do I sell versus how many consoles does another company sell,’” “[That’s more] Sony or Nintendo or other companies back in the day, that’s not our approach.”
What great games did you play on subscription this year that’s even on par with RE4 remake, hogwarts, star wars jedi, zelda or diablo?
What great games did you play on subscription this year that’s even on par with RE4 remake, hogwarts, star wars jedi, zelda or diablo?
Diablo I'll just wait for the Activision deal to close...
It indicates the market is at its maximum, whereas business expectation were multiples of that. Let’s not forget GP strategy was Microsoft’s bet against Sony’s, now look at the number of consoles sold vs. PlayStation at the top of the market.Ya, ok, lol. 2%, such a massive decrease, and could early be Sony for doing silly things like pulling first parry games from the service.
there's a finite well of material that can be put on the subscription service. This ultimately ends up leading to a system of quantity over quality.
Link the two for me, if it was just about quantity, they would just release the project? Video streaming service cancel shows after one season cause of engagement numbers but that's a slightly different topic to subscriptions services. Some services are cancelling before the show release cause its a nice way to reduce taxes.Again, with video streaming we see this with the sheer number of projects being greenlit only to be canceled part way through, or only after one, season.
What are you confused about?Link the two for me, if it was just about quantity, they would just release the project? Video streaming service cancel shows after one season cause of engagement numbers but that's a slightly different topic to subscriptions services.
How the fuck is it "more like Prime"? I'm not subscribing to Game Pass Ultimate because I get discounts on games. Or free shipping. Or access to a monthly set of free Kindle books. The entire sales pitch for Game Pass and PS+ is access to games. That makes it 100% analogous to video streaming services, not a multi-faceted shopping service where video is only part of the equation.The analogy to video streaming service is a questionable one to me anyways, I have always said its more like Prime.
Yeah, less AAA games compare to previous generations or even last year. Same reason why Elden ring sales exploded last year and outdid previous soul games by a lot. It was the only good AAA third party game for almost half the year in 2022.
But you said that they are cancelling alot of projects, if all you, as a platform holder, need, is content then you wouldnt cancel them.What are you confused about?
Subscription services have to constantly offer content to keep people interested and subscribed. But there's only so much content available to them, and only so many projects they have going at any given time. So even if they know projects are likely crap, they throw them on the platform and hope they stick because it's better than not having anything to put on it at all, which is a guaranteed loss of subscribers.
Video streaming services greenlight all kinds of projects because they need a constant stream of content for people to feel they're getting value out of their subscription. We're already seeing the exact same issue play out with game subscription services.
Was refer to MS more so but you as a prime subscriber are getting free content. You may not be signing up for the discount or the free mtx that they give out, that's true.How the fuck is it "more like Prime"? I'm not subscribing to Game Pass Ultimate because I get discounts on games. Or free shipping. The entire sales pitch for Game Pass and PS+ is access to games. That makes it 100% analogous to video streaming services, not a multi-faceted shopping service where video is only part of the equation.
The problems with subscription services are two-fold, as has been made clear by video streaming platforms:
First, there's a finite amount of people who want them. Once everyone who wants a subscription has one, the revenue changes from driving new subs to trying to retain existing ones or minimizing user 'churn' (user's subscribing for a while, while others drop off for a while). That's why you see companies like Netflix taking aggressive stances on things like password sharing now. They used to be fine with it, but now they're cracking down in the hopes that it drives new subs from the people currently 'sharing' accounts. Bear in mind that video streaming services are platform agnostic whereas game streaming services are platform dependent, so Game Pass and PS+ will hit the ceiling much faster than video services.
Second, subscription services end up in an arms race to provide content to keep subscribers "engaged". Like subscribers, there's a finite well of material that can be put on the subscription service. This ultimately ends up leading to a system of quantity over quality. Again, with video streaming we see this with the sheer number of projects being greenlit only to be canceled part way through, or only after one, season. It's already happening on game streaming services as well -- most notably Game Pass, since it's the older of the two. This push for constant content is how we end up with stinkers like Redfall. Had Redfall needed to survive solely on sales, I doubt it would have launched in the state we got it. But sales were a secondary thought -- using a big, hyped, first party title to drive engagement for Game Pass subscribers was more important than the quality of the title itself.
How did I know this was going to be your response?
Continuing to prove the point as to why software sales on Xbox is abysmal compared to PlayStation.
Because Xbox fans expect everything to show up on Game Pass or they simply won't bother.
Game Pass has fundamentally warped Xbox fans' brains into not buying games.
And then they wonder why output is dismal.
It indicates the market is at its maximum, whereas business expectation were multiples of that. Let’s not forget GP strategy was Microsoft’s bet against Sony’s, now look at the number of consoles sold vs. PlayStation at the top of the market.
More like ~18 months ago. They last shared their GP numbers in January 2022.Well, here’s a reason why MS stopped reporting GP numbers 10+ months ago.
Your misreading the situation completely. Do You really think I was going to go out and buy a sequel to game I waited 7 years to play on day one? It was never going to happen. It's games like this that keep me on gamepass.
Let's compare. So let's say I am a buyer only on ps5, and I buy 3 games a year, one new $80 game, one $60, and one $40 game per year. I spend $200 year for 5 years, I spend $1000 in 5 years.
Over on xbox, I get my new games on gamepass, I pay $120 a year l for 5 years, and I buy a game for $60 and another for $20 each year. I spend $1000 over 5 years.
I also get a whole bunch of other games included that I may not have been willing to purchase.
Your negativity is misplaced.
If a third party company comes out with a AAA game on xbox that's worth my cash, I'll still buy it. I bought elden ring. problem is they are few and far between.
My memory is fidlly so I'm being vague on purpose here.More like ~18 months ago. They last shared their GP numbers in January 2022.
This isn't really about Sony. It is clearly about the decline/stagnation in Game Pass.Ya, ok, lol. 2%, such a massive decrease, and could early be Sony for doing silly things like pulling first parry games from the service.
Comparing apple to oranges here slightly.How? Because Sony recently shared its subscription growth numbers, and it is growing alright. So if the overall industry is stagnated, it is only because the other subscription service has declined.
PS Plus has been increasing both in terms of ARPU as well as total # of subscribers.
This is precisely why I opted to drop back down to PS+ Essentials when my Extra sub ended a week ago. Most of what was on Extra that I wanted to play, I either had already played before I even subbed to Extra or played during the year I had Extra. I doubt anything will be added to Extra in the next year that I haven't already played. They'll certainly add GOW Ragnarok at some point but... already played it.Do they think there's just constantly going to be people subscribing that haven't played the handful of good titles on there? What about people who've already played through all that shit?
Ya, ok, lol. 2%, such a massive decrease, and could early be Sony for doing silly things like pulling first parry games from the service.
For Sony PS+ extras are not the cornerstone of their business model. They are just there and just good enough to be desirable by regular PS+ subscriber. They are happily sell you SM2 for $70 this fall and make a bank.When you first see and play the games on Gamepass and PlayStation Plus, you praise the services for a long time. Then, as you become familiar with the existing games, you start waiting for new releases and evaluate the service based on them. Gamepass has been struggling with new games lately and is far from its glorious days. Although PlayStation has recently transitioned to this model and seems more appealing, it will soon face the same problems. I believe that in 1-2 years, when monthly subscriptions start to be preferred over annual memberships, these services will face more difficult times.
We both play great games, I just pay less overall per game.
Annecdote, but I dropped my gamepass PC sub for a while. I should have done this last month because all I played was Zelda, but I did it for now and will sub again in September. It's only 2 months off but why not save the 20 bucks when I am playing these big games on other platforms? If I was smart I would have dropped for 4 months. I also subbed for PS Extra along with getting Diablo and they have many of the older Bethesda games and things that were on GP before.I'm guessing this is aimed at gamepass? Can't imagine anyone subscribing to PS+ if they don't have a playstation.
Huh? Teens or early 20s? Gamepass brought Hi Fi Rush and Atomic Heart day 1 this year and will bring Starfield and probably something else good later this year. Obviously it won't have day 1 games on the other platforms but it has a lot of decent content and I like the ability to try things easily and risk free. It is a good thing to toggle on when they have something interesting and if you look there are things to fill gaps. I just got PS + extra more + addition and it looks kinda meh because it doesn't have any day 1 stuff. I still need to buy Spider-Man and FF. I just figured Id get it for a year because I needed PS+ for diablo couch play and the extra 30 bucks or so was worth it.Best games of the past 18 months:
Elden Ring, Hogwarts Legacy, TotK.
You aren’t getting quality like that on subscription services day one, anywhere.
As I’ve said in the past, both services (Extra and Game Pass) are ideal supplementary services for people that are in their teens or early 20s.
I disagree with this take, specifically the monthly vs annual part, one of the reasons I unsubbed from Gamepass was that the few games I played on it ended up being cheaper to just buy on the long run, the price hike bundled with a lack of ANY bundle for monthly subs killed all my interest in the service. I keep my Ps Plus Deluxe subscription up and running though, if only because I can get 1 year way cheaper on it.When you first see and play the games on Gamepass and PlayStation Plus, you praise the services for a long time. Then, as you become familiar with the existing games, you start waiting for new releases and evaluate the service based on them. Gamepass has been struggling with new games lately and is far from its glorious days. Although PlayStation has recently transitioned to this model and seems more appealing, it will soon face the same problems. I believe that in 1-2 years, when monthly subscriptions start to be preferred over annual memberships, these services will face more difficult times.
As good as those games may be for some, they did not create any positive impact. A controversial opinion, and at the risk of sounding harsh, but Hi-Fi Rush was pretty much a failure in every sense.Huh? Teens or early 20s? Gamepass brought Hi Fi Rush and Atomic Heart day 1 this year and will bring Starfield and probably something else good later this year. Obviously it won't have day 1 games on the other platforms but it has a lot of decent content and I like the ability to try things easily and risk free. It is a good thing to toggle on when they have something interesting and if you look there are things to fill gaps. I just got PS + extra more + addition and it looks kinda meh because it doesn't have any day 1 stuff. I still need to buy Spider-Man and FF. I just figured Id get it for a year because I needed PS+ for diablo couch play and the extra 30 bucks or so was worth it.