Support NeoGAF

[DefectiveReject]

You can apply the same logic to Sony's dispute of their numbers, and you're naive if you think Sony is any less aware of their own numbers

Either way, one is going to end up looking like a chump. Take my original suggestion and WAIT FOR NPDs.

You've seemed to look over the whole point I was making in order to make this a fanboy debate. You live up to your tag

I see
so now you want to wait for numbers, and aren't dancing around like a crazed loon (Famitsu numbers release, being told to wait for MC numbers)

Shoe foot other the on

Rearrange as you see fit.

Bye now!!

 

[Nolan.]

You can apply the same logic to Sony's dispute of their numbers, and you're naive if you think Sony is any less aware of their own numbers

Either way, one is going to end up looking like a chump. Take my original suggestion and WAIT FOR NPDs.

You've seemed to look over the whole point I was making in order to make this a fanboy debate. You live up to your tag

Sony is no less aware of their numbers obviously. Though because they have been the only one to not quote hard numbers from retailers or just provide some, I guess people are more suspect. Anyway this is media create not Npd so the argument doesn't belong here.

 

[Jokeropia]

Has reality set in yet or do we need another week before gun-jumpers can get their senses back? Probably the latter.

Anyway, DS is tracking ahead of PS2 worldwide, and this is despite the apples to oranges comparison with Sony's "production shipments".

 

[Crusade]

I see
so now you want to wait for numbers, and aren't dancing around like a crazed loon (Famitsu numbers release, being told to wait for MC numbers)

Shoe foot other the on

Rearrange as you see fit.

Bye now!!

Famitsu and MC are both legitimate, third party trackers. GAF has it's reasons for using MC, none of it to do with MC's numbers being more accurate from what I've discerned. I can dance around Famitsu numbers all I want if I wish to, because they are a perfectly legitimate source. I won't do it because I realise MC contradicts it to a certain extent, but nobody can say which is more accurate.

Of course I see how you see things, so really - shouldn't you be taking a little lesson here in not getting ahead of yourself?

 

[AniHawk]

Famitsu and MC are both legitimate, third party trackers. GAF has it's reasons for using MC, none of it to do with MC's numbers being more accurate from what I've discerned. I can dance around Famitsu numbers all I want if I wish to, because they are a perfectly legitimate source. I won't do it because I realise MC contradicts it to a certain extent, but nobody can say which is more accurate.

Of course I see how you see things, so really - shouldn't you be taking a little lesson here in not getting ahead of yourself?

CVX or Jonnyram can explain it better, but I believe Famitsu extrapolates from more stores and counts from less. Famitsu usually only gets used during the holiday period when they start posting much earlier than MC or for estimations of first day sales.

 

[Hammer24]

Famitsu and MC are both legitimate, third party trackers. GAF has it's reasons for using MC, none of it to do with MC's numbers being more accurate from what I've discerned.

You didn´t discern much.

 

[bigfurb]

CVX or Jonnyram can explain it better, but I believe Famitsu extrapolates from more stores and counts from less. Famitsu usually only gets used during the holiday period when they start posting much earlier than MC or for estimations of first day sales.

That doesn't refute his point though.

 

[Crusade]

CVX or Jonnyram can explain it better, but I believe Famitsu extrapolates from more stores and counts from less. Famitsu usually only gets used during the holiday period when they start posting much earlier than MC or for estimations of first day sales.

They're both extrapolating from a significant amount though, as are the NPD. That's how they operate. But that's not really my point, they're still both legitimate sources, and it's not possible to tell which is more accurate on any particular week. It's a matter of which you'd trust to be more accurate (which doesn't mean much in reality)

They're usually close though, I'm guessing it is the varying "guesswork" of both sources about how each system is inflating during the Holidays that is creating these discrepancies at the moment. Would that be right?

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Week 　  	PS3 MC 　  	PS3 Fami　  	Wii MC　  	Wii Fami
11/5-11/11 　  	55,924 　  	55,890 　  	34,546 　  	34,820
11/12-11/18   	 39,178   	 52,816  	  36,230  	  36,413
11/19-11/25  	 50,564  	 58,000  	  54,362  	  47,000

I love the Famitsu beating when 80% of the data you find in every thread is theirs, and I think we could say 95% is Famitsu if we don't count the first post :lol . From first day, to top30 software numbers from the previous week, to every comparison between games, to leaked weekly sales..

 

[AniHawk]

Week 　  	PS3 MC 　  	PS3 Fami　  	Wii MC　  	Wii Fami
11/5-11/11 　  	55,924 　  	55,890 　  	34,546 　  	34,820
11/12-11/18   	 39,178   	 52,816  	  36,230  	  36,413
11/19-11/25  	 50,564  	 58,000  	  54,362  	  47,000

I love the Famitsu beating when 80% of the data you find in every thread is theirs, and I think we could say 95% is Famitsu if we don't count the first post :lol . From first day, to top30 software numbers from the previous week, to every comparison between games, to leaked weekly sales..

First day and console numbers by Famitus are usually treated as an estimation for the numbers that show up from MC, though.

They're usually close though, I'm guessing it is the varying "guesswork" of both sources about how each system is inflating during the Holidays that is creating these discrepancies at the moment. Would that be right?

I guess. The discrepancies between Famitsu and MC go beyond holiday sales though. I believe the difference in LTD for the DS is in the hundreds of thousands.

 

[test_account]

Is there any 1st day sales avalible yet? Or maybe there wasnt too many games released?

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

First day and console numbers by Famitus are usually treated as an estimation for the numbers that show up from MC, though.

I must be slower than usual today and thats saying much (

Spoiler

or you must be crankier than usual

) but I don't understand your post.

Is there any 1st day sales avalible yet? Or maybe there wasnt too many games released?

11/29
NDS Layton Kyouju to Akuma no Hako
PS2 Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes
PS2 SD Gundam G Generation Spirits
PSP Makai Senki Disgaea Portable: Tsuushin Taisen Hajime Mashita
WII Naruto Shippuuden Gekitou Ninja Taisen EX2
WII Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes (Double Pack)
WII Swing Golf Pangya 2nd Shot!
360 Assassin's Creed
360 Guilty Gear 2 Overture

And thats just from my list which ignores games I don't know or doesn't come from big publishers...for example the Pachislot PS2 game in the top10 this week wasn't on my radar at all.

 

[AniHawk]

I must be slower than usual today and thats saying much (

Spoiler

or you must crankier than usual

) but I don't understand your post.

I think most members think of Famitsu numbers as previews for the MC numbers, which they consider to be the correct ones.

 

[cvxfreak]

I must be slower than usual today and thats saying much (

Spoiler

or you must crankier than usual

) but I don't understand your post.

In other words, no one takes the numbers you or creamsugar post each week from certain Japanese sources as the definitive word. People tend to consider them as teasers until the MC numbers show up, but it gives people something to talk about. That's what AniHawk's getting at.

I wonder if we really should just start making the new threads when Famitsu comes out and title them "Japanese Sales 11/19 - 11/25". I do think the first posts in each thread should contain Famitsu information as well.

Well, that's my official proposal. It's up to others whether to enforce it or not. I can also start posting the finalized Famitsu top 30 a day earlier than when donny translates it.

 

[test_account]

11/29
NDS Layton Kyouju to Akuma no Hako
PS2 Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes
PS2 SD Gundam G Generation Spirits
PSP Makai Senki Disgaea Portable: Tsuushin Taisen Hajime Mashita
WII Naruto Shippuuden Gekitou Ninja Taisen EX2
WII Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes (Double Pack)
WII Swing Golf Pangya 2nd Shot!
360 Assassin's Creed
360 Guilty Gear 2 Overture

And thats just from my list which ignores games I don't know or doesn't come from big publishers...for example the Pachislot PS2 game in the top10 this week wasn't on my radar at all.

Thanks. So there was some interesting releases afterall I'm most interested to see salenumbers from Swing Golf Pangya 2nd Shot! and the difference between the Wii and PS2 version of Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes.

 

[goompapa]

I must be slower than usual today and thats saying much (

Spoiler

or you must be crankier than usual

) but I don't understand your post.


11/29
NDS Layton Kyouju to Akuma no Hako
PS2 Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes
PS2 SD Gundam G Generation Spirits
PSP Makai Senki Disgaea Portable: Tsuushin Taisen Hajime Mashita
WII Naruto Shippuuden Gekitou Ninja Taisen EX2
WII Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes (Double Pack)
WII Swing Golf Pangya 2nd Shot!
360 Assassin's Creed
360 Guilty Gear 2 Overture

And thats just from my list which ignores games I don't know or doesn't come from big publishers...for example the Pachislot PS2 game in the top10 this week wasn't on my radar at all.

Interesting releases. No return to the top10 for SMG for the foreseeable future.
Layton, Gundam should be big. I expect them to beat Wiifit for the week.

 

[D.Lo]

Yes, I can see that, thank you. But the total number of PSP games per PSP sold, that's what I want to know

From Dalthien's handheld thread:

Total tracked PSP software sales in Japan = 15,415,783 (Tie Ratio = 2.27)

Total tracked DS software sales in Japan = 78,128,059 (Tie Ratio = 3.91)

Through Nov 11

 

[ksamedi]

In other words, no one takes the numbers you or creamsugar post each week from certain Japanese sources as the definitive word. People tend to consider them as teasers until the MC numbers show up, but it gives people something to talk about. That's what AniHawk's getting at.

I wonder if we really should just start making the new threads when Famitsu comes out and title them "Japanese Sales 11/19 - 11/25". I do think the first posts in each thread should contain Famitsu information as well.

Well, that's my official proposal. It's up to others whether to enforce it or not. I can also start posting the finalized Famitsu top 30 a day earlier than when donny translates it.

Well usually when Famitsu numbers hit they get discussed to death in the usual thread and when MC numbers hit there isn't much left to be discussed and the discussion sort of dies down. So I fully agree with your post here, because the number trackers also use Famitsu as there source because they are more generous with the numbers.

 

[justjohn]

nice to see the psp doing well. hopefully more jrpgs will be announced for it. playing tales ** eternia on this thing made me yearn for more.

 

[Moor-Angol]

i vote for Famitsu topic!

 

[Nolan.]

I rather it as it is at the moment to be honest.

 

[Lobster]

i vote for Famitsu topic!

Boo.

I vote for mixed thread.

 

[slaughterking]

Yep, don't break up with the tradition. ;I

 

[cvxfreak]

i vote for Famitsu topic!

By this, do you mean the mixed method or JUST Famitsu?

 

[Magicpaint]

nice to see the psp doing well. hopefully more jrpgs will be announced for it. playing tales ** eternia on this thing made me yearn for more.

Don't you have a PS2? Get Tales of the Abyss!

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Oh, yes, I know they are not (and people doesn't (and shouldn't) take them as) definitive word. But I think they are wrong taking them as preview for MC, they should be regarded as a preview for finalized Famitsu data we get 1 week late (sadly).

I'd also like people to notice that there are 3 types of Famitsu figures we get:
- Sinobi figures (first day and weekly numbers, heavily rounded from the exact figures)
- 2ch figures (leaked weekly numbers, better rounded than sinobi)
- Famitsu figures (the exact numbers from Famitsu but a week late)

Taking this week for example, WE2008 case:
· Sinobi says 300k for PS2, 140k for PS3 and 10k for 360.
· 2ch figures say 305k for PS2, 145k for PS3 and 12k for 360.
· The actual figures that both sources above are rounded from won't be available until next week.

I hope this clarifies the situation a little ^^u

 

[Grampasso]

I never paid attention to how much finalized Famitsu numbers are different from the previous ones. If they are usually a lot different and closer to MC numbers, are they worth a discussion? ^^;

 

[Pope Benedict XVI]

That doesn't refute his point though.

They're both extrapolating from a significant amount though, as are the NPD. That's how they operate. But that's not really my point, they're still both legitimate sources, and it's not possible to tell which is more accurate on any particular week. It's a matter of which you'd trust to be more accurate (which doesn't mean much in reality)

They're usually close though, I'm guessing it is the varying "guesswork" of both sources about how each system is inflating during the Holidays that is creating these discrepancies at the moment. Would that be right?

Well if Media Creat have a larger sample size (as Anihawk says) then that means they'll have a tighter "confidence interval" for their results. Basically, the larger a sample size the more confidence you can have in the statistic.

 

[gkryhewy]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but DowJones doesn't care about mediacreate:

TOKYO -(Dow Jones)- Sony Corp.'s (6758.TO) PlayStation 3 game console outsold Nintendo Co.'s (7974.TO) Wii console in November in Japan for the first time, according to an industry survey.

In the four weeks through Nov. 25, Sony sold 183,217 PS3s in Japan, while Nintendo sold 159,193 Wii consoles, according to market researcher Enterbrain.

The data show that the PS3 has outsold Nintendo's offering for the last three weeks, indicating that recent moves by Sony may be paying off. The company introduced a new, cheaper entry model that it began selling in Japan on Nov. 11 and cut prices of existing models in October.

Sony launched its PS3 a year ago as a much-heralded successor to its popular PS2, packing the device with advanced technology like a next-generation DVD player and custom-designed processor.

But that caused the game console to be far more expensive than Nintendo's Wii, which is also easier to use and features games aimed at novice players as opposed to hard-core gamers.

Microsoft Corp.'s (MSFT) Xbox 360, which has lagged rivals in Japan, totaled 35,065 unit sales during the same period, according to the data.

-By Jay Alabaster, Dow Jones Newswires; 813-5255-2929; jay.alabaster@ dowjones.com

 

[kottila]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but DowJones doesn't care about mediacreate:

You expect the journalists to do anything more then rephrasing corporate PR?

 

[Jonnyram]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but DowJones doesn't care about mediacreate:

You think NeoGAF cares about DowJones?

 

[gkryhewy]

You think NeoGAF cares about DowJones?

Well, I certainly don't. Who posted that? Not me.

 

[Stumpokapow]

They're just using Famitsu monthly summaries. Is that really a problem? I'm not sure why we can't use Media-Create numbers on a weekly basis, either in the medium term, and Famitsu for long term stuff.

 

[theKoopa]

Come on Nintendo! The top is rear this door!!!

 

[Moor-Angol]

By this, do you mean the mixed method or JUST Famitsu?

Sometimes i feel it should be better to have separate topics, but on the other side i admit it would be more chaotic for the forum.

Maybe the solution could be changing topic from "Media Create Sales xx/xx - yy/yy" to "Japan Sales Age xx/xx - yy/yy" so we could keep a unique topic.

Spoiler

and you know i am a Famitsu numbers fanboy

 

[gkryhewy]

They're just using Famitsu monthly summaries. Is that really a problem?

It isn't for me - I thought it was interesting and worth posting (but, alas, was wrong). It popped up on the front page of cnn/money.

 

[spwolf]

They're just using Famitsu monthly summaries. Is that really a problem?

i dont get it, people dont understand or dont want to understand that neither source is 100% correct but that at the end of the year they match.

Famitsu is not ioi.

edit:

 

[gkryhewy]

i dont get it, people dont understand or dont want to understand that neither source is 10% correct but that at the end of the year they match.

Famitsu is not ioi.

I think we all can agree that you're not 10% correct though, right?

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

November summary

183,217 PS3s, 159,193 Wiis (famitsu)
163,100 PS3s, 162,755 Wiis (m-create)

Btw, I checked Dengeki but they didn't give any hardware number. Oh and it seems they also missed the 450k Air PSP units sold (

Spoiler

its at #31 though, #40 at MC

). Btw, they have FF3 DS below 1m (984k).

 

[kay]

They're just using Famitsu monthly summaries. Is that really a problem?

Yes, because anything good that is Sony related must not be posted, ever

 

[jesusraz]

In other words, no one takes the numbers you or creamsugar post each week from certain Japanese sources as the definitive word. People tend to consider them as teasers until the MC numbers show up, but it gives people something to talk about. That's what AniHawk's getting at.

I wonder if we really should just start making the new threads when Famitsu comes out and title them "Japanese Sales 11/19 - 11/25". I do think the first posts in each thread should contain Famitsu information as well.

Well, that's my official proposal. It's up to others whether to enforce it or not. I can also start posting the finalized Famitsu top 30 a day earlier than when donny translates it.

Any chance you could post the latest Famitsu Top 30 here, please? I also think it should be something in the first post, just as a point of reference for people.

 

[radcliff]

I always thought MC was more reliable, which is why the topic was always about them, and not Famitsu.

They include more retailers in their sample so they extrapolate for less. As a result, their numbers should be more reliable as their sample size is greater and more representative of the whole population than famitsu.

 

[Cheesemeister]

Are people really that bent out of shape over Famitsu numbers? Should we also do Dengeki numbers? I can get the program to work with either of these as well if need be, using the same translation lookup table for the game titles. I'd say it's up to the mods, though.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

Didn't Famitsu have a poll that said that the 360 was the most desired console?

Perhaps we should not put to much stock in Famitsu's ability to track stats

 

[Saitou]

So.....

what's up with the word '****' being censored? Tha'ts Kain, most notably of FFIV fame.

Also, until just a while ago, the word 'of' was also filtered.



ON THE MATTER AT HAND

JUST SHUT UP

 

[Jonnyram]

Are people really that bent out of shape over Famitsu numbers? Should we also do Dengeki numbers? I can get the program to work with either of these as well if need be, using the same translation lookup table for the game titles. I'd say it's up to the mods, though.

I wouldn't bother. GAF will discuss whatever comes first with most vehemence, and later data will just be an afterthought.

We get early data for Famitsu on a pretty flimsy basis, but M.Create has always been the first official number out of the gate and that's why it's become the staple here. Overall, Enterbrain data gives us a top 30, and figures are often available for more out-of-scope numbers, thanks to Famitsu Xbox 360 and other mags, but at the end of the day, their data is a bit later than GAF likes to deal with.

Dengeki? fufufu.

 

[Stumpokapow]

They include more retailers in their sample so they extrapolate for less. As a result, their numbers should be more reliable as their sample size is greater and more representative of the whole population than famitsu.

Since we don't have the margins of error for either, this is not really relevant. They are industry-accepted as accurate sales figures, and without CIs or MOEs, there's really nothing more we can do. A larger sample size does not necessarily mean a more accurate sample; sampling methodology is just as important.

 

[Dragon]

Didn't Famitsu have a poll that said that the 360 was the most desired console?

Perhaps we should not put to much stock in Famitsu's ability to track stats

Discredit them on a completely different issue to imply that their numbers are off, hey they could be, because you don't like them.

I don't know about you guys, but if PS3 or Wii sells more in Japan for a week, I won't be losing sleep with either result.

 

[slaughterking]

1st day sales. Someone translate them. ;I

http://ameblo.jp/sinobi

 

[Grecco]

Are people really that bent out of shape over Famitsu numbers? Should we also do Dengeki numbers? I can get the program to work with either of these as well if need be, using the same translation lookup table for the game titles. I'd say it's up to the mods, though.

Dont Bother. It was never a problem till today, and wouldnt have been a problem had the streams not crossed again.