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[onken]

Yes but did you read what I wrote? You cannot assume that those are all unique users.

And you can't assume that they're not 100% unique users. We have absolutely no idea on double dip figures (and I would predict a hell of a lot lower that most people think) so it becomes a real mess when you try and do a direct comparison in this way.

Look, I've already tried to end this civilly once. I think it could have shipped 450k, you clearly disagree. I'll be the first to admit that I don't get it right all the time (or anywhere close) but likewise neither do you - I'm too polite to point out that you were bottom of the predictions last week - and this is a hypothetical question to which we will never get an answer. So in summary, don't be such a dick about it.

 

[gogogow]

What other points did you make? That Star Ocean is an established franchise and WKC a new one? Your post focuced on Famitsu reviews. You even searched to find them.

I "focused" on famitsu reviews? It must be true when YOU say it. They were one of the many points I made You mad? As one of the most popular gaming magazine in Japan, there are bound to be people who base their purchases on the reviews or who are influenced by them. No matter how many or little there are or how useless those reviews are.
Yeah, I searched to find them? So?
You need to learn how to read, other points:

WKC - SO4
New IP - Established IP
L5 - SE
340k - 400k+?
Famitsu scores

I made more than one point and you were like lol famitsu scores lol.

 

[Paracelsus]

Word of mouth didn't kill SO3 sales. Also, WKC had a bad word of mouth (I remember people posting user reviews that kicked SO4 and WKC in the butt while praising Demon's Souls) yet it sold like that other Level-5 game on PS2, Rogue Galaxy (339k vs 356k). WKC is the only valuable argument in this discussion, being a new IP and an exclusive. You could say Namco was truly smart for doing what it did, but it has nothing to do with this.

So yeah, no way SO4 would have sold 300k copies on PS3, even as a multiplatform entry. The 360 had 2 triAce games against 0 for PS3, and yet only a few guys willing to get EoE 360 are left.

 

[Chris1964]

I "focused" on famitsu reviews? It must be true when YOU say it. They were one of the many points I made You mad? As one of the most popular gaming magazine in Japan, there are bound to be people who base their purchases on the reviews or who are influenced by them. No matter how many or little there are or how useless those reviews are.
Yeah, I searched to find them? So?
You need to learn how to read, other points:

WKC - SO4
New IP - Established IP
L5 - SE
340k - 400k+?
Famitsu scores

I made more than one point and you were like lol famitsu scores lol.

Thanks for the tips, next time I read your posts I'll be more careful. Only that you consider L5 and new IP as something that keeps sales down shows how much you know. But since I say it it must not be true.

P.S. Drink something to relax.

 

[grandjedi6]

I think western forum-goers put more stock into famitsu reviews then does anyone who actually buys the magazine.

And you can't assume that they're not 100% unique users.

Yes he can. Easily. Indeed, if he knows of at least 1 person who double-dipped then his statement moves from an assumption to a technical fact.

 

[gogogow]

Thanks for the tips, next time I read your posts I'll be more careful. Only that you consider L5 and new IP as something that keeps sales down shows how much you know. But since I say it it must not be true.

Holy shit! :lol

All those points I made was to show how well WKC did EVEN if it's a new IP, EVEN if it's by Level 5, EVEN if it had a lower score. NOT that it will keep down sales.
Since when was 340k considered to be bad for a 2008 PS3 title?

That's why I came to my conclusion that SO4 would've done at least 400k if it were multiplatform on day one as a ESTABLISHED franchise, published by SE, higher review score.

 

[onken]

I think western forum-goers put more stock into famitsu reviews then does anyone who actually buys the magazine.

Heh, probably true.

Yes he can. Easily. Indeed, if he knows of at least 1 person who double-dipped then his statement moves from an assumption to a technical fact.

99% then. Unless he knows 3100 people who double-dipped.

 

[Chris1964]

Holy shit! :lol

All those points I made was to show how well WKC did EVEN if it's a new IP, EVEN if it's by Level 5, EVEN if it had a lower score. NOT that it will keep down sales.
Since when was 340k considered to be bad for a 2008 PS3 title?

Unbelievable...

Don't you understand what I'm saying? Almost no one cares about scores and saying that ''WKC did well did EVEN if it's a new IP, EVEN if it's by Level 5'' suggests that Level 5 and new IP have a bad reputation when it's exactly the opposite.

Who said that 340k is bad? Where I disagree is that SO would immediately sell 400k+ because is an established franchise and from S-E. Is so difficult to understand what I mean with my words?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Guys, guys.

PS3, ok?

Guys.

 

[gogogow]

Almost no one cares about scores and saying that ''WKC did well did EVEN if it's a new IP, EVEN if it's by Level 5'' suggests that Level 5 and new IP have a bad reputation when it's exactly the opposite.

I didn't suggests L5+new IP=bad reputation, that's something you make out of it. What i'm saying is that a S-E published IP will have even more selling power. That's what I think and you think differently and that's fine. We will never find out anyway. I only had problems with how you were only talking about the bloody "nobody cares" famitsu scores while I obviously posted more than that.

 

[duckroll]

And you can't assume that they're not 100% unique users. We have absolutely no idea on double dip figures (and I would predict a hell of a lot lower that most people think) so it becomes a real mess when you try and do a direct comparison in this way.

There are several ways to estimate what the double dip figures would be like. I mentioned before that judging from how general enhanced re-releases sell, there is definitely a very dedicated Tales fanbase which buys pretty much every release. Those number about 100k at least, if not more. Based on that I would say that it's not unreasonable to say that about half the people who bought the 360 version (or more) went on to buy the PS3 version as well.

Look, I've already tried to end this civilly once. I think it could have shipped 450k, you clearly disagree. I'll be the first to admit that I don't get it right all the time (or anywhere close) but likewise neither do you - I'm too polite to point out that you were bottom of the predictions last week - and this is a hypothetical question to which we will never get an answer. So in summary, don't be such a dick about it.

I'm not sure what I'm being a dick about. I thought we were having a discussion about a sales issue and we don't agree on the conclusion of the discussion. I am presented evidence to support my thoughts on this issue, and why I am saying what I am saying. I'm not sure why it has to be "ended" just because we disagree, if you feel strongly about the subject you're free to point out where I might be wrong, and why you think that Tales fans who bought ToV on the 360 would not also have gotten it on the PS3.

 

[Durante]

Only that you consider L5 and new IP as something that keeps sales down shows how much you know.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. It almost seems like you're claiming that being a new JRPG IP is an advantage compared to being a new entry in a 700k-selling series, but that can't be the case can it?

 

[Chris1964]

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. It almost seems like you're claiming that being a new JRPG IP is an advantage compared to being a new entry in a 700k-selling series, but that can't be the case can it?

Once again:

Being a new JRPG IP from Level 5 can't be discounted when comparing it to a 500k (previous entry) selling series.

 

[Durante]

Being a new JRPG IP from Level 5 can't be discounted when comparing it to a 500k (previous entry) selling series.

Star Ocean 3: Till the End of Time 533,373
Star Ocean 3: Till the End of Time Director's Cut 146,859
Star Ocean 3: Till the End of Time (Ultimate Hits) 29,953
710k.

Even if we allow that a new IP from the same developer has as much potential to transfer sales as a direct sequel (something I'd dispute), the most comparable L5 game would be Rogue Galaxy, which sold less than 400k. The developer can't be discounted, but I think it's inane to argue that SO4 didn't have a better starting position in terms of heritage than WKC.

Taking all this into account I don't see why it should be so far-fetched to claim that SO4 could have sold 450k as a day-and-date multiplatform release.

 

[Baki]

SO4 is two different sacks of crap that you have to constantly get up and switch between at arbitrary moments while you're sitting there enjoying your crappy crap. SO4:I is just an upgrade where they put all the crap in one really big sack.

While I understand that there are a few unusual souls out there who really enjoy where the Star Ocean series has gone lately, the reason the notion that the game is terrible has spread is that by and large the game is terrible and the vast majority of potential purchasers amongst the (fairly large) PS3-owning, RPG-liking crowd would not like it.

That makes sense and would explain poor sales of the PS3 version.

"I" love the ridiculous use of scare "quotes" in this "post."

I only used the quotes because I have not played the game and so I cannot form an opinion on it. However the notion that the game is bad seems to be the public perception based on J-Gaffers.

 

[Chris1964]

Including Director's Cut and budget re-release inflates the numbers. The direct comparison is between SO4 and SO3 first release. Also take into account that SO3 declined comparing to SO2 (700K->535K)

 

[schuelma]

You know why I love this thread- you wake up and you have no idea what game was argued about passionately while you slept.

 

[Brazil]

You know why I love this thread- you wake up and you have no idea what game was argued about passionately while you slept.

:lol

That's exactly how I feel.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I really wonder how much SO4 would have sold on xbox360 if the ps3 version came out the same time.

I mean the ps3 version would have had this huge plus of not having to switch disc while trying to get items and making them.

Still i see SO4 doing 150k plus on ps3 when all said and done.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I really wonder how much SO4 would have sold on xbox360 if the ps3 version came out the same time.

I mean the ps3 version would have had this huge plus of not having to switch disc while trying to get items and making them.

Still i see SO4 doing 150k plus on ps3 when all said and done.

In Japan? Probably wouldn't have sold much at all.

Hard to say how SO4 will do. The game's definitely got seriously bad word of mouth, but PS3 fans have terrible taste in games, so it could go either way.

 

[Durante]

Including Director's Cut and budget re-release inflates the numbers. The direct comparison is between SO4 and SO3 first release. Also take into account that SO3 declined comparing to SO2 (700K->535K)

I agree with (and was aware of) the series already being on a decline, I just think it would have been significantly less steep from 3 to 4 had it released on both platforms from the start.
The thing is, I really don't care much about SO4 sales at all, so I'll leave it here -- the only JP release this year whose sales I actually do care about was released last week.

 

[Datschge]

SO3 also had the infamous dual-layer incompatibility issue with plenty PS2 units due to a bugged development kit version for which neither Enix/tri-Ace nor Sony wanted to take responsibility for holding back the sales. The release of a DC version was considered a direct result of that.

 

[charlequin]

SO4 came out a time when PS3 was gagging for a proper JRPG (quality didn't even come in to it), I think they could have shipped 500k easily

I see what you did there: you added in some of the extra hundred thousands here that you conspicuously left out of your original NSMBW predictions! :lol

I don't know. Tales is higher regarded in terms of being a good rpg series vs. a not good one. But damn those SO games sell pretty decent for being shitty games.

There's only four Star Ocean games. The third one is the first one I think can be fairly argued to be "shitty," at least by the standards of people who are interested in a game broadly similar to Star Ocean. Once you assume that the series follows the standard "sales are based on the last entry" pattern: people bought SO3 because SO2 was great, a lot fewer people wanted SO4 because SO3 was butt.

The thing is, I really don't care much about SO4 sales at all, so I'll leave it here -- the only JP release this year whose sales I actually do care about was released last week.

You don't care about AT3 sales? :lol

 

[Kishgal]

You don't care about AT3 sales? :lol

I thought that's what he was referring to.

 

[charlequin]

I thought that's what he was referring to.

Oh. Durr. Last week.

s/AT3/VC2/ in that case.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

About PS3 minibump, its fairly poor given there was a new PS3 SKU released on 1/27:
PS3 120GB + Michael Jackson This is it - 33500Y

At first you could say meh, but then you see Blu-Ray sales for that week:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-02-04/japan-animation-blu-ray-disc-ranking-january-25-31

Michael Jackson's This Is It concert documentary debuted at #1 on the overall weekly Blu-ray Disc charts. With 261,000 copies sold, it is the highest selling Blu-ray Disc in Japan so far.

Some other news to fill the post, new the best! re-releases for March:
PS2 Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes 1990Y 3/18
PSP Harvest Moon Sugartown 2800Y 3/25
PS3 Initial D Extreme Stage 3990Y 3/11
PS3 Lost Planet Extreme Condition 1990Y 2/25

 

[schuelma]

About PS3 minibump, its fairly poor given there was a new PS3 SKU released on 1/27:
PS3 120GB + Michael Jackson This is it - 33500Y

At first you could say meh, but then you see Blu-Ray sales for that week:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-02-04/japan-animation-blu-ray-disc-ranking-january-25-31


Some other news to fill the post, new the best! re-releases for March:
PS2 Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes 1990Y 3/18
PSP Harvest Moon Sugartown 2800Y 3/25
PS3 Initial D Extreme Stage 3990Y 3/11
PS3 Lost Planet Extreme Condition 1990Y 2/25

Wow, I would have had no idea about that- thanks!

 

[hxa155]

I didn't know where to put this and it could be pretty old but check it out: Gran Torismo PSP sales

http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html

Does anyone have the retail numbers? I want to use them to figure out how many copies of the game sold via PSN.

 

[Jeels]

Are they including bundled units as well? That's much higher then expected.

 

[MemoirsofMimi]

Are they including bundled units as well? That's much higher then expected.

I'm pretty surprised with that number as well. It looked like it was going to be a bomb when it was first released. Even though the sales are down compared to other entries, it's pretty nice to see a PSP game with these decent sales worldwide.

 

[hxa155]

It's still pretty low for a GT game though.

 

[Dalthien]

About PS3 minibump, its fairly poor given there was a new PS3 SKU released on 1/27:
PS3 120GB + Michael Jackson This is it - 33500Y

Yeah - I forgot all about the new MJ SKU. Thanks!

So it looks like schuelma might have been right after all if not for the new SKU.

 

[donny2112]

Last numbers we have for SO4 are about 214k, which means it's probably shipped 250k on the 360.

Couple of things.

1) The last number we have for SO4 (and the final number for the base release) is 208.5K.
2) 360 games are not going to be overshipped to Japanese stores by 35K. They're usually lucky to sell out their first shipment. No way do retailers order an additional 35K that will sit on the shelves for a 360 game.

Edit:
Has cvxfreak said what he thinks Reginleiv is going to do?

I'm thinking 30K first week with 100K LTD, which is actually pretty good for a core-ish game on the Wii in Japan. I think the comparisons to EDF are Red Herrings, as D3 != Nintendo as a publisher. I know Nintendo's laid some stinkers in the past year on Wii for core games in Japan, but they've already done more for Reginleiv than they had for those, by this point (i.e. the demo disks). Hopefully, it gets released in the U.S. at $40 or less, though.

 

[Dash Kappei]

I didn't know where to put this and it could be pretty old but check it out: Gran Torismo PSP sales

http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html

Does anyone have the retail numbers? I want to use them to figure out how many copies of the game sold via PSN.

Can I just point out that from day1 you could find the game for less than 20Euros (£16.95, with an RRP of £29.99) and that just 1 month after that, pretty much every retailer slashed the price at £12.95? Only after GT5 Academy released, the price for GTPSP seems to have gotten at £17 again.
You know, there's always talk about bomba bin upping sales for Wii releases, surely we can't dismiss it this time then?

 

[Road]

Famitsu Top 10 for January (Dec. 28, 2009 to Jan. 31, 2010)

01. [NDS] Dragon Quest VI: Realms of Reverie (Square Enix) - 909,981 / NEW
02. [WII] New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Nintendo) - 723,116 / 3,208,266
03. [PSP] Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep (Square Enix) - 674,669 / NEW
04. [NDS] Tomodachi Collection (Nintendo) - 455,931 / 2,767,879
05. [WII] Wii Fit Plus (Nintendo) - 286,225 / 1,584,758
06. [NDS] The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks (Nintendo) - 229,206 / 550,146
07. [WII] Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo) - 192,661 / 1,735,467
08. [NDS] Pokemon Heart Gold / Soul Silver (Pokemon) - 178,305 / 3,560,902
09. [PS3] Final Fantasy XIII (Square Enix) - 169,029 / 1,867,285
10. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2nd G (PSP the Best Reprint) (Capcom) - 127,927 / 164,072

Nothing to see here, except for FFXIII exact sales (since it wasn't in the last top 30) and a really strong month (3.95 million total for the top 10).

 

[onken]

I'm not sure what I'm being a dick about. I thought we were having a discussion about a sales issue and we don't agree on the conclusion of the discussion. I am presented evidence to support my thoughts on this issue, and why I am saying what I am saying. I'm not sure why it has to be "ended" just because we disagree, if you feel strongly about the subject you're free to point out where I might be wrong, and why you think that Tales fans who bought ToV on the 360 would not also have gotten it on the PS3.

Posting crap like:

Double-posting because I think it is so ridiculous:

onken claims that it was coming out at a period there PS3 owners were gagging for a proper JRPG and quality doesn't even factor in. Hmmm, I wonder what other PS3 JRPG came out at about that time with tons of marketing and during the holiday rush. Oh right, White Knight Chronicles. Why didn't it easily ship 500k? :lol

It's being a dick, you as a mod should know this. You do realise that our predictions differ by 100k, right? Yet your opinion is obviously the correct one and mine is "so ridiculous". This is aside from your tenuous-at-best comparison to WKC, the validity of which you obviously realised since you swiftly ditched it in exchange for a ToV comparison.

 

[duckroll]

Posting crap like:



It's being a dick, you as a mod should know this. You do realise that our predictions differ by 100k, right? Yet your opinion is obviously the correct one and mine is "so ridiculous". This is aside from your tenuous-at-best comparison to WKC, the validity of which you obviously realised since you swiftly ditched it in exchange for a ToV comparison.

I didn't figure you to be a sensitive guy with such soft feelings. I will take that into account the next time I reply to something you post.

 

[schuelma]

It's being a dick, you as a mod should know this. .

Just some friendly advice..things are a bit snarky and its very easy to take offense.

 

[onken]

I didn't figure you to be a sensitive guy with such soft feelings. I will take that into account the next time I reply to something you post.

Hardly, I'm just used to a higher caliber of discussion around here.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

No first day numbers is really disappointing. Why did they decide to stop btw?

 

[duckroll]

Hardly, I'm just used to a higher caliber of discussion around here.

You know what, if you're so butt hurt over it.

 

[onken]

You know what, if you're so butt hurt over it.

You know I feel much better now.

 

[Takao]

Was Invizimals released in Japan? How (thinking negative here) bad did it do?

 

[onken]

Was Invizimals released in Japan? How (thinking negative here) bad did it do?

Fairly sure that's a Euro exclusive.

 

[Takao]

Fairly sure that's a Euro exclusive.

Oh, I got an Asian release of the game as a gift from PlayAsia, so I assumed it may have also been released in Japan. It's coming to North America later this year, if a recent ESRB rating is to be trusted.

 

[onken]

Oh, I got an Asian release of the game as a gift from PlayAsia, so I assumed it may have also been released in Japan. It's coming to North America later this year, if a recent ESRB rating is to be trusted.

News to me, though a lot of PAL stuff often gets released in Hong Kong as a throwback to the colonial days so not too surprising.

 

[Brazil]

You know I feel much better now.

Come on now, you too.

 

[androvsky]

Oh, I got an Asian release of the game as a gift from PlayAsia, so I assumed it may have also been released in Japan. It's coming to North America later this year, if a recent ESRB rating is to be trusted.

I could almost see SCEA paying for an ESRB rating before realizing it means they'd have sell the camera too. :lol

 

[Baki]

You know what, if you're so butt hurt over it.

oooh...I want somebody to send me sparkly text. It makes me feel all warm and special.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

oooh...I want somebody to send me sparkly text. It makes me feel all warm and special.