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Media Create Sales: Week 15, 2017 (Apr 10 - Apr 16)

Principate

Saint Titanfall
It's one of their biggest franchises today and Capcom being an international business want it to succeed globally and not just domestically.

So is Resident Evil. You know what they did with that? They released a mid tier budget horror game that apes contemporary indie games. Street fighter V Their flagship fighting game? Almost wasn't released and relied on Sony funding. Your literally describing the types of moves Capcom haven't done for over five years now.
 

MTC100

Banned
Seeing the performance of Nier in Japan(and the rest of the world) stirs hope for the industry though, there is still a need for high quality games from Japan after all and I am glad the Japanese developers are finally back in the ring!
 

cheesekao

Member
So is Resident Evil. You know what they did with that? They released a mid tier budget horror game that apes contemporary indie games. Street fighter V Their flagship fighting game? Almost wasn't released and relied on Sony funding. Your literally describing the types of moves Capcom haven't done for over five years now.
I have to wonder though, if they're so risk adverse, why did they bother with Umbrella Corps or DGS2?
 

Vena

Member
I have to wonder though, if they're so risk adverse, why did they bother with Umbrella Corps or DGS2?

Umbrella Corps is not a "risk" title, it may have been a stupid title to make with the brand but it wasn't some major risk. It was cheap (its recycled to all hell) and it was trying to ape a successful (currently, very successful) sub-genre of shooters in a service-based off-shoot of the RE IP.
 

cheesekao

Member
Umbrella Corps is not a "risk" title. It was cheap and it was trying to ape a successful (currently, very successful) sub-genre of shooters.
It definitely wasn't a big risk but from the looks of it, it was a bomb on all fronts. Wasted money is still wasted money.

What you talking about. Umbrella corps was outsourced and made bank relatively. Not sure what that acronym is referring to however.
I'm not really sure if it made bank since it tanked completely in sales charts. DGS2 is Dai Gyakuten Saiban 2.
 

MTC100

Banned
They already seem to have hinted at it:

Lol.. "enjoy it on 3DS first" -that's almost like announcing the Switch version directly but begging people to double dip and once the hype slows down and the sales are at a place they feel comfortable about, the game gets properly announced for the Switch.

-And it will sell tons there, I think Nintendos dominance in Japan is already secured, it's really important to have such a system too so the developers don't succumb to creating smartphone games instead of full fledged ones. It will be interesting to see when the "switch" from 3DS to Switch happens, not only for Capcom but other 3DS Developers as well.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
It definitely wasn't a big risk but from the looks of it, it was a bomb on all fronts. Wasted money is still wasted money.
Ah I'm getting mixed up with Racoon city game which actually did make money. That's probably why they tried that.

Racoon city shipped 2.1 million worldwide.
 

Vena

Member
It definitely wasn't a big risk but from the looks of it, it was a bomb on all fronts. Wasted money is still wasted money.

What about that is a risk venture? Did it even waste money? Its a cheapo-recycle release in a highly lucrative and popular sub-genre of shooters that fuels itself for a long time on service-based content delivery. I'd sooner call UC a very risk averse but tone-deaf release, the fact that it wasn't a good product or that it failed has little to do with its "risk" status.

A risk venture is something like Dragon's Dogma or the missing-and-probably-dead Deep Down. These are big budget investments, needing big sales targets to justify their release and function off of largely completely new spokes of development for the company.
 

Kyoufu

Member
So is Resident Evil. You know what they did with that? They released a mid tier budget horror game that apes contemporary indie games. Street fighter V Their flagship fighting game? Almost wasn't released and relied on Sony funding. Your literally describing the types of moves Capcom haven't done for over five years now.

I don't even think MH5 on PS4 is much of a "risk". As in, it's not going to destroy the brand or the company. They've still got a popular Nintendo handheld in Japan to release their franchise on. This would be an attempt at growing their IP overseas on the most popular dedicated games platform in the core games market. That's all it is.
 
So is Resident Evil. You know what they did with that? They released a mid tier budget horror game that apes contemporary indie games. Street fighter V Their flagship fighting game? Almost wasn't released and relied on Sony funding. Your literally describing the types of moves Capcom haven't done for over five years now.

When was the last time old school horror game sold something? I saw RE VII as a pretty risky project as it's one of the few valuable franchises Capcom has left and dudebro RE5 and RE6 sold well.
 

cheesekao

Member
What about that is a risk venture? Did it even waste money? Its a cheapo-recycle release in a highly lucrative and popular sub-genre of shooters that fuels itself for a long time on service-based content delivery.

A risk venture is something like Dragon's Dogma or the missing-and-probably dead Deep Down. These are big bidget investments, needing big sales targets to justify their release and function off of largely completely new spokes of development for the company.
Umbrella Corps was pretty much DOA. Steamspy has it at 10k and reactions all over the internet were universally negative.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
I don't even think MH5 on PS4 is much of a "risk". As in, it's not going to destroy the brand or the company. They've still got a popular Nintendo handheld in Japan to release their franchise on. This would be an attempt at growing their IP overseas on the most popular dedicated games platform in the core games market. That's all it is.

It has a high chance of destroying it's profitability if it does what your expecting it to do. MH ships 4.1million on a 3DS budget. It'd be lucky to get anywhere near that on an average AAA PS4's game budget. This franchise is literally Capcom's breadwinner.

When was the last time old school horror game sold something? I saw RE VII as a pretty risky project as it's one of the few valuable franchises Capcom has left and dudebro RE5 and RE6 sold well.

It was cheap though very very cheap, even if it bombed it wouldn't have broken Capcom's bank.
 

Vena

Member
Umbrella Corps was pretty much DOA. Steamspy has it at 10k and reactions all over the internet were universally negative.

That just means it was a bad product. It in and of itself is a very "safe" product based on market trends.

A bad product doesn't make it a risky product. It was just a bad product.
 

AniHawk

Member
They've actually switched up their strategy a bit recently now that they're hiring 1000+ new staff.

There was also a corporate reorganization around the idea of taking more chances again.

I'm not saying that means Monster Hunter is 100% on PS4, but expect to see more risks going forward in general.

maybe they're finally putting deep down into production since that is a game that is definitely still happening.
 

cheesekao

Member
That just means it was a bad product. It in and of itself is a very "safe" product based on market trends.

A bad product doesn't make it a risky product. It was just a bad product.
Everyone saw how bad the game was a mile away. I guess it's a willfully ignorant decision rather than a risky one.

Great Ace attorney 2?

Must cost even less than USF2 to make.

Nah..

usf2 must have cost around $200 to make...
I know it was more
They could've made another mainline title instead of a sequel to an underperformer.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
I hope you realize that generally whenever someone says "MH PS4", they don't mean "MH exclusively for PS4".

I would agree with that, but we have seen many users pointing to PS4 exclusivity too. That would sound way more crazy that imagining a Switch exclusive, being it SO strong in Japan (it = MH).

Because it's the next logical step to grow the IP?
Now that they're switching (lol) development to the Switch they will need to spend extra $$$ on updating the assets anyway.

I agree. It would be the most logical step

No, someone begging and pleading a game stay exclusive is definitely console wars bullshit though. Multi-platform is almost always best for 3rd party games.

Yes, this is th reason why the "games should be on switch too" is a so welcomed topic, right?
 

Kanann

Member
They've actually switched up their strategy a bit recently now that they're hiring 1000+ new staff.

There was also a corporate reorganization around the idea of taking more chances again.

I'm not saying that means Monster Hunter is 100% on PS4, but expect to see more risks going forward in general.

1000+ staff to do new Onimusha, Dogma 2, DMC5, Vampire, Rival School, RE8, REmake2, Megaman 11, Megaman X9, Megaman ZZX, Dino Crisis reboot?

Or just sit in circle and make brand new engine for Deep Down?
 

Kyoufu

Member
It has a high chance of destroying it's profitability if it does what your expecting it to do. MH ships 4.1million on a 3DS budget. It'd be lucky to get anywhere near that on an average AAA PS4's game budget. This franchise is literally Capcom's breadwinner.

You're only thinking of the short term. If MH5 on PS4 sells 2 million overseas, that's more than the franchise ever did with any of its previous iterations. That right there would be considered growth and bringing in new fans to the series. It'd mean a new audience to sell the game to going forward, not just on PS4 but whatever other platforms they release the MH games on.

Anyway, I have to wonder what your definition of "average AAA PS4 budget" is and why you think they'd be breaking the bank on a PS4 title when budgets can vary wildly.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
You're only thinking of the short term. If MH5 on PS4 sells 2 million overseas, that's more than the franchise ever did with any of its previous iterations. That right there would be considered growth and bringing in new fans to the series. It'd mean a new audience to sell the game to going forward, not just on PS4 but whatever other platforms they release the MH games on.

Anyway, I have to wonder what your definition of "average AAA PS4 budget" is and why you think they'd be breaking the bank on a PS4 title when budgets can vary wildly.

It's like less than 1 million more than 3DS. An upgrade but hardly far more. What happens if it's Japanese fan base moves on and fails to court western audiences.
 
They could've made another mainline title instead of a sequel to an underperformer.

I agree. I wouldn't say this is a risk though. Just a weird decision.

edit :

This thread :

ded99b58aabf3de3f489cdde1e412ca7.jpg
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
1000+ staff to do new Onimusha, Dogma 2, DMC5, Vampire, Rival School, RE8, REmake2, Megaman 11, Megaman X9, Megaman ZZX, Dino Crisis reboot?

Or just sit in circle and make brand new engine for Deep Down?

Their division is currently 1500 people in the traditional console/PC division and 500 in the mobile/PC online division.

This is what they noted about the two:

Console/Traditional PC Specific:
- Capcom's console game division has 1500 staff.
- 20% of Capcom's console game division is working on new IP.
- Capcom is making a third try at putting games on a 2.5 year development cycle. This time, their approach consists of having way more staff, and having a rather complex looking development structure where everyone's time is utilized more productively across various projects.
- Capcom is putting a big focus into both VR and eSports as corporate objectives. Resident Evil 7 and Street Fighter V are their two current examples for those categories, with more coming in the future.
- Capcom's current digital sales ratio is 29.8% (projected) for this year. They would like to reach 50%+ in the medium term (generally this means 3-5 years).
- Capcom hopes to make catalog sales (sales of games released in previous fiscal years) an increasingly large part of their business through long tail product support. Capcom's catalog game sales have increased from 3.9 million in 2013 to 7 million in 2016, and this represents 46.7% of their income, so the plan seems to be working.
- As might be obvious from the above notes, part of Capcom's plan to increase digital revenue and tail end sales is to run many of their games as services with a variety of post launch cosmetics, add-on content, etc. If you look at Street Fighter V, you'll get the idea. I imagine Resident Evil 7 has a season pass as well, but we'll see.
- Capcom notes "If we are unable to continue generating content qualitatively equal to global AAA titles, Capcom has no future as a company specializing in games."

Mobile/PC Online Specific:
- Capcom's mobile/PC Online department has 500 staff.
- Capcom has finished merging their mobile departments, and now their mobile games will overwhelmingly consist of games using Capcom's internal IP that target a global audience.
- The first four games made entirely under this new strategy will release next fiscal year (starting April 2017) and consist of games based on Mega Man, Monster Hunter, and Sengoku Basara. Presumably one of these brands has multiple titles. I once reported these are releasing this fiscal year. My apologies, I didn't quite understand the timeframe from the report from 3-6 months ago.
- Capcom considers Monster Hunter Explore to be a hit, but their other recent mobile games to not be hits. They are dedicated to remedying this situation.
- Toward this end, in addition to the above reforms, Capcom is looking to buy mobile developers to strengthen their mobile offerings.
- Capcom is also focusing a lot of effort into growing mobile expertise internally because they feel it's critical they have this knowledge given where the market is headed. Or, explained more easily, if they only partner with external developers, if those external developers go work with someone else instead, Capcom would be in bad shape if they didn't have internal mobile talent.
- There's a lot in here about how they intend to work with various Asian partners to expand their reach into the rest of Asia. Pretty much every Japanese third party is doing this these days.
 
How did Monster Hunter sell on ps2 tho that was a 150m install base. If those underperformed then why even bother with ps4?

Only one MH PS2 title was released on the west and that was 12 years ago (with 0 marketing and poor reviews). We might as well start talk about Nintendogs and Brain Age sale potential while at it.
 

cheesekao

Member
Their division is currently 1500 people in the traditional console/PC division and 500 in the mobile/PC online division.

This is what they noted about the two:
Since you're quite in the know about these kinds of things, mind if I ask how's Capcom's mobile offerings doing as of late? Last I heard, they were one of the weaker mobile publishers.
 

Kanann

Member
Their division is currently 1500 people in the traditional console/PC division and 500 in the mobile/PC online division.

This is what they noted about the two:

Thank you very much for great details of info.

It's really sound promising, but we speak about Capcom here...

And they have a one massive ball to doing new ip? wowza.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Their division is currently 1500 people in the traditional console/PC division and 500 in the mobile/PC online division.

This is what they noted about the two:

New IP is almost certainly a PS4 game maybe a PS4 switch game if porting the resident evil engine panned out. I imagine they'll have a traditional non fighting gam esport as well. usual monster hunter maybe resident evil sequel and maybe stuff like DMC etc.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Only one MH PS2 title was released on the west and that was 12 years ago (with 0 marketing and poor reviews). We might as well start talk about Nintendogs and Brain Age sale potential while at it.

From what I remember, reviews were actually decent from most publications (I gave it an 8/10!), but what killed any potential the game had was the lack of marketing and PS2's online network not being a standard for all owners.

The IP and online gaming have come a long way since then so it's not really comparable today.
 
How well did the Playstation 4 userbase help with Street Fighter V?

An unappealing game remains unappealing regardless.

So is Resident Evil. You know what they did with that? They released a mid tier budget horror game that apes contemporary indie games. Street fighter V Their flagship fighting game? Almost wasn't released and relied on Sony funding. Your literally describing the types of moves Capcom haven't done for over five years now.

Since when did horror games ever require big budgets to be excellent. Capcom was smart and I see a lot of underplaying, saying how it was not a risky venture, when in reality, they steered a franchise that had been TPS action for over a decade into a FP, slower paced adventure. They even kept the majority of the game hidden in their marketing.

It is true that Capcom gets more first party aid than any other Japanese third party (Deep Down, DR and SFV) but I reckon thats a combination of them having notable talent/IPs and willing to make such exclusive deals.
 

Passose

Banned
I think there is a reason why Capcom brings MH exclusively to Nintendo systems, even though the series took off on a Sony Handheld years ago. Capcom was a company Nintendo had good ties to ever since, they even got the Resident Evil Remake, Resident Evil 0 and Resident Evil 4 exclusively on the GameCube. -Even though that changed over time and RE4 was ported to the PS2 and a lot of systems later on, it was one of the best exclusives on the GameCube for a long time.

Also Capcom knows quite well, that everyone that wants to play Monster Hunter will buy the dedicated system for it, at least in Japan where the series has the most sales. I wouldn't expect a PS4 version, Capcom is likely already preparing a Switch Port/Remaster of the 3DS game though.
Yeah, make sense, considered Nintendo helped Capcom a lot for Monster Hunter in its 3ds run, even marketing the shit out off the franchise in the west. There are two ways this will end up to, Capcom still keeps the current relationship with Nintendo and keeping the franchise on their system or taking the risk of losing a big supporter of the series and releasing new games multi plat in favor of bigger usebase
 

LordKano

Member
An unappealing game remains unappealing regardless.



Since when did horror games ever require big budgets to be excellent. Capcom was smart and I see a lot of underplaying, saying how it was not a risky venture, when in reality, they steered a franchise that had been TPS action for over a decade into a FP, slower paced adventure. They even kept the majority of the game hidden in their marketing.

It is true that Capcom gets more first party aid than any other Japanese third party (Deep Down, DR and SFV) but I reckon thats a combination of them having notable talent/IPs and willing to make such exclusive deals.

Let me see it in another way : they changed their focus from a TPS perspective, fading in popularity and with RE6 being a massive critical failure, to the most popular style of horror games, banking on streamers and word of mouth.

I don't see how it's risky. They're following the trends. It would have been riskier to try another TPS after Resident Evil 6.
 
From what I remember, reviews were actually decent from most publications (I gave it an 8/10!), but what killed any potential the game had was the lack of marketing and PS2's online network not being a standard for all owners.

The IP and online gaming have come a long way since then so it's not really comparable today.

It has 68 meta for what it's worth.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Thank you very much for great details of info.

It's really sound promising, but we speak about Capcom here...

And they have a one massive ball to doing new ip? wowza.

The ~300 people on new IP could be on multiple new IPs actually. Companies sometimes use that phraseology to talk about multiple products.

Since you're quite in the know about these kinds of things, mind if I ask how's Capcom's mobile offerings doing as of late? Last I heard, they were one of the weaker mobile publishers.
Their only relevant game on mobile is Monster Hunter Explore, which is a modest success.

New IP is almost certainly a PS4 game maybe a PS4 switch game if porting the resident evil engine panned out. I imagine they'll have a traditional non fighting gam esport as well. usual monster hunter maybe resident evil sequel and maybe stuff like DMC etc.
Capcom noted that they're very interested in making a strategy game, especially due to esports.
 

extralite

Member
They could've made another mainline title instead of a sequel to an underperformer.

You really think it's a good idea to screw the fanbase by leaving a new series on a cliffhanger? And not reuse those assets that won't fit in anything other than a sequel?

And I'm sure there will be another mainline series title. There was one before we got this sequel actually.
 
You really think it's a good idea to screw the fanbase by leaving a new series on a cliffhanger? And not reuse those assets that won't fit in anything other than a sequel?

And I'm sure there will be another mainline series title. There was one before we got this sequel actually.

iirc series producer already mentioned AA7 somewhere.
 

L~A

Member
Of all the Capcom series, Ace Attorney is the only one with the least surprising future. It's gonna have a 7th mainline entry on Switch / Mobile sometime in 2018 (maybe 2019 if they need a little extra time, but I don't think they will). You can probably expect a port/compilation later down the line too.

Even if DGS2 was to sell like your average Idea Factory game, the series itself wouldn't be in jeopardy (the sub-series would, but that wouldn't change much imo because I highly doubt there will be a DGS3). Now if AA6 had sold like DGS, that'd be cause for concern.

From the very start, DGS was presented as a new Ace Attorney series, to run concurrently with the main one (not replacing one). It was part of Capcom's attempt at annualising the series, which wasn't a really good idea and didn't really work anyway.
 
Let me see it in another way : they changed their focus from a TPS perspective, fading in popularity and with RE6 being a massive critical failure, to the most popular style of horror games, banking on streamers and word of mouth.

I don't see how it's risky. They're following the trends. It would have been riskier to try another TPS after Resident Evil 6.

How can you say fading in popularity when RE6 was the best selling RE and continues to sell even to this day. Similarly, how can you say most popular style of horror games when RE6 outsold every single one of those so called popular FP horror games numerous times over.

To add further fuel, longstanding franchises having such large changes in perspective is very rare.
 

Hero

Member
Street Fighter V was a garbage fire release for months (still is, somewhat) and rejected on both PS4 and PC , so that is not the greatest comparison...

It was released on PC also. Plus, I don't think XB release would changed a lot.

SFV has underperformed because of different reason.

An unappealing game remains unappealing regardless.



Since when did horror games ever require big budgets to be excellent. Capcom was smart and I see a lot of underplaying, saying how it was not a risky venture, when in reality, they steered a franchise that had been TPS action for over a decade into a FP, slower paced adventure. They even kept the majority of the game hidden in their marketing.

It is true that Capcom gets more first party aid than any other Japanese third party (Deep Down, DR and SFV) but I reckon thats a combination of them having notable talent/IPs and willing to make such exclusive deals.

The underlying point is that a high install base isn't everything.

The hypothesis is that Capcom should make MH on PS4 to expand in the western market, but there is nothing to prove that it would guarantee success.
 
The underlying point is that a high install base isn't everything.

The hypothesis is that Capcom should make MH on PS4 to expand in the western market, but there is nothing to prove that it would guarantee success.
The point is expansion overseas and PS4 is best for that goal. Whether it turns out well or not is a separate discussion. I don't think using what happened two generations ago helps much with that discussion either way.
 

Sandfox

Member
How can you say fading in popularity when RE6 was the best selling RE and continues to sell even to this day. Similarly, how can you say most popular style of horror games when RE6 outsold every single one of those so called popular FP horror games numerous times over.

To add further fuel, longstanding franchises having such large changes in perspective is very rare.
Don't the latest numbers show that RE5 is still the best selling game in the series? Also, RE6 was in fact a critical failure when you look at reviews, how fans felt about the game, and even Capcom's reaction. Even when looking at sales Capcom expected the game to sell 7 million copies in the first FY and the game still hasn't hit that number.
 
The underlying point is that a high install base isn't everything.

The hypothesis is that Capcom should make MH on PS4 to expand in the western market, but there is nothing to prove that it would guarantee success.

No one said it was, just that its a clear factor when gauging potential sales.

You got it the wrong way round. Capcom wants to expand overseas. A logical conclusion would be to have a PS4 release, as not only does it have the highest install base but numerous successful, (some multi-million) Japanese games.

Don't the latest numbers show that RE5 is still the best selling game in the series? Also, RE6 was in fact a critical failure when you look at reviews, how fans felt about the game, and even Capcom's reaction. Even when looking at sales Capcom expected the game to sell 7 million copies in the first FY and the game still hasn't hit that number.

Oh yeah. RE6 still sold incredibly well, outdid all other so called popular FP horror games and had a relatively long tail to sales.

The claim that a FP horror game is more safe is one that does not align with the market.
 

Hero

Member
The point is expansion overseas and PS4 is best for that goal. Whether it turns out well or not is a separate discussion. I don't think using what happened two generations ago helps much with that discussion either way.

Throwing out the PS4 install base as a reason something should exist isn't really conducive to a logical discussion. There's no guarantee that MH4 on PS4 would do well enough in the west.

No one said it was, just that its a clear factor when gauging potential sales.

You got it the wrong way round. Capcom wants to expand overseas. A logical conclusion would be to have a PS4 release, as not only does it have the highest install base but numerous successful, (some multi-million) Japanese games.

It is A factor not THE ONLY factor, that's the difference. It could work out, it could also crash and burn. Just because other games are successful doesn't ensure MH4 would be.
 
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