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Metroid: Samus Returns (Mercury Steam, Metroid 2 reimagining, 9/15) announced for 3DS
- Thread starter Cerium
- Start date
Triscuitable
Member
This is what happens when fans go a decade without a good game in the series.
FloweryMarston
Member
I would say play fusion and then one that you love a lot
Other M has had some apologists over the years. Worst of all is the ones who pretend only the narrative was bad. As if gimped Ninja Gaiden-lite with a godawful control scheme is good gameplay.
Or the lack of music, with what's there being unmemorable.
Or the awful art design(a cardinal sin for a Metroid game).
Or the forced first person mechanic.
Man, Other M suuuuuuuuuuuuuucked.
FloweryMarston
Member
I had a dream that i gave a car ride to sakamoto and i asked him if they were remaking super and he just smiled and said "that's my stop" and got off the car.
what the fuck is wrong with me
what the fuck is wrong with me
Barrow Roll
Member
Did he have his translator with him in your dream?
It had been part of Samus' backstory, but they had never had the opportunity to bring it up in a game. Ridley murdering Samus' parents has been part of her backstory since forever, and her developing PTSD from that made sense and was brought up in the partially canon manga. Even without the manga there's no way that event wouldn't have scarred her. Sakamoto wanted to touch on how more of a personal relationship Samus has with Ridley. It shows how Ridley isn't just the leader of the Space Pirates; not just some monster to Samus. He's her nemesis. And it feels good when Samus gives Ridley the badass beating he recieves in the following fight.
Fusion's not more extreme. Samus thought Ridley was gone for good in Other M because she didn't just defeat him, she blew up the entire planet he was on. In Fusion she encounters his frozen corpse early on in the game, which she left behind in Other M and knew was taken by the Federation since it was gone when she returned to the Bottleship, so right there she's got plenty of warning to prepare herself mentally that that's a posibility. Then she sees the X copy Ridley's DNA and take off, so she knows she's going to have to fight a Ridley X eventually. And on top of that because she's familiar with how X work she can take comfort in knowledge that Ridley X isn't really Ridley and that by copying him Ridley really is gone for good.
What makes the situation in Other M so strong is that her parents' murderer came back from the dead against odds that Samus thought were even beyond Ridley and it understandably made her freak out. Her reaction was to say "Ridley? No! It CAN'T be!" and then step backwards slowly over the course of a single minute; after which she regained her composure right before Ridley attacked her.
FloweryMarston
Member
He talked to me in my native language haha
No the scene in Other M made no sense. Even if you dont want to include the Prime games as cannon (Which i am not sure why you wouldn't) she still killed Ridley multiple times by the time Other M rolls around and seemingly for good.
The game does a piss poor job of explaining why she is even afraid of Ridley there is no context given to the player at all. If your only defense for this is "Read the Manga" then that is a huge failure on the games part to explain crucial plot information. Even in the manga it is used as nothing but a cheap plot device it only happens at the most convenient points and is not a reoccurring trait of Samus. PTSD does not just randomly crop up when its convenient.
The game does a piss poor job of explaining why she is even afraid of Ridley there is no context given to the player at all. If your only defense for this is "Read the Manga" then that is a huge failure on the games part to explain crucial plot information. Even in the manga it is used as nothing but a cheap plot device it only happens at the most convenient points and is not a reoccurring trait of Samus. PTSD does not just randomly crop up when its convenient.
TheMoon
Member
A better idea would be to play it AFTER Samus Returns. When you've had that proper, classic Metroid fix. A palate cleanser, so to speak.
TheMoon
Member
Let's also not forget that Super happened right before that where she got the life burnt out of her from Mother Brain and was this close to hanging up her suit until she got reverse sucked back to life by a gigantic Metroid attached to her everything.
She had just gone through some shit. And that old fuckface is back alive and kicking, just like that.
Other M essentially boils down to Sakamoto saying: "See?! She's just a woman", with all the awful stereotypes that you would expect from a middle-aged Japanese man writing the script.
The scene where she is willing to burn to death rather than disobey a trivial order from Adam is pure nonsense and much worse than the Ridley panic attack. Samus is totally subservient to her nasty father figure/lust object and tries to rationalise things with the most childish inner monologue I've ever heard. The Ridley sequence is just one small part of the disaster. The Samus controlled by the player cannot be reconciled with the battered, barren housewife of the cutscenes.
The scene where she is willing to burn to death rather than disobey a trivial order from Adam is pure nonsense and much worse than the Ridley panic attack. Samus is totally subservient to her nasty father figure/lust object and tries to rationalise things with the most childish inner monologue I've ever heard. The Ridley sequence is just one small part of the disaster. The Samus controlled by the player cannot be reconciled with the battered, barren housewife of the cutscenes.
Well there should atleast be some new content but new metroid evolutions or a few other new bosses would be very cool.
Yeah, I totally agree. The attempts in this thread to revision Other M's plot as progressive or even good...
Well, if you discount the Prime games as you say then Samus has encountered Ridley 2 times before Other M; and in the previous encounter she meets him by getting her ass completely handed to her.
And the reason to separate the Prime games and mainline games isn't because they are bad, but because they are inconsistent. Both continuities are equally valid and good so there's no reason to get upset.
And again, even if you don't separate the Prime games out, having a PTSD relapse in that that situation is understandable. PTSD is not something that you overcome and it goes away forever. It can get triggered again. The problem isn't that they depicted her PTSD, the problem is that they didn't explain how she got PTSD and just assumed everyone knew that.
"The Prime games are inconsistent"
*defeats an Omega Metroid with the Ice Beam in Fusion because it's now immune to Missiles instead*
Real talk: Metroid as a series is inconsistent. This should be clear when Samus doesn't have her Varia Suit, Morph Ball, Missiles, Space Jump, or Ice Beam at the start of Super Metroid, even though it literally happens immediately after Metroid 2.
*defeats an Omega Metroid with the Ice Beam in Fusion because it's now immune to Missiles instead*
Real talk: Metroid as a series is inconsistent. This should be clear when Samus doesn't have her Varia Suit, Morph Ball, Missiles, Space Jump, or Ice Beam at the start of Super Metroid, even though it literally happens immediately after Metroid 2.
I know Ridley murdering Samus' parents was part of her backstory. I read the manga a long time ago but I don't remember PTSD being brought up in it. Granted, it's been a while since I read it.
That said, its jarring to bring up in a game so late in the timeline. And feels off for everybody not super familiar with supplementary material. There's simply no real reason for it to become a part of the games at that point.
Didn't play Other M, but man this looks terrible. I was clicking around because I couldn't stomach more than three-second increments of 1) Ridley's terrible redesign that looks more like Dr. Finkelstein from TNBC, and 2) the "drama."
Happy for the people who genuinely enjoyed it, though.
I have nothing positive to say about Other M. I despise the game just as much today as when I first played, if not more after going back over its many missteps.
I've waited a long time for a new Metroid game so we can move on from Other M and leave it in the same waste-bin we reserve for Devil May Cry 2, Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game, and the CD-i Zelda games.
I've waited a long time for a new Metroid game so we can move on from Other M and leave it in the same waste-bin we reserve for Devil May Cry 2, Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game, and the CD-i Zelda games.
Lightning Lord
Banned
Samus having PTSD due to her back story isn't the problem. The problem is that Other M drops it out of nowhere and doesn't bother explaining WTF is going on. Most people who have played the Metroid games have never touched the manga so the scene came across as something totally out of left field.
Thinking about it, it's funny how Other M delves into Samus's past yet fails to actually go into the stuff in the manga.
Thinking about it, it's funny how Other M delves into Samus's past yet fails to actually go into the stuff in the manga.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
There's something about Ridley having eaten Samus' mother that always unnerved me.
Astral Dog
Member
They don't even mention the Chozo
FloweryMarston
Member
I want to watch direct feed without commentary of the game so much
Triforce141
Member
CharminUltra
Member
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
It has it's moments. It's a really weird game honestly. I think it's worth it to play through if you're a Metroid fan.
Well, I ended up playing through Fusion last night. And I played up to Ridley region in Super Metroid tonight.
It was a better Fusion experience than I had last time I played it. I like late Fusion so much more than early Fusion though, when there is more exploration and the sectors start getting interconnected.
I still suck at wall-jumping/that one grappling turtle section for a missile right after you get the grappling hook. I just waited to get the spring ball until after I had space jump this time and same for that missile. Usually I just force myself through those despite being so bad at them. But twice getting knocked down by the bats and I was like...space jump is right ahead, I can circle back
.But generally speaking, Super is as awesome as ever.
As to Other M...15$ on Amazon is tempting. I think I'm going to buy it. But really, I'm feeling I'll probably find myself on Frigate Orpheon tomorrow night. Probably just play the trilogy version as the Wii/GCN aren't hooked up but the Wii U is. So Other M might indeed come after Samus Returns...
But...so glad Samus Returns is coming. So glad. It is high time this happened.
Last time I had this morbid curiosity when I went on a Metroid binge, it passed and I slipped into a Zelda binge. So we'll see if it passes again. But...I might be more proactive about it this time and buy it right now
.Either way though, I kind of want to be informed when Other M comes up lol
All I can really say atm is why I skipped it at launch (impressions, reviews, core design choices) and that the cutscene segments I've seen terrify me.I kid you not, Other M was kind of an eye-opening experience for me. Up until then I had never not enjoyed a Metroid game in some capacity (even Hunters was great fun in its own way to me), and at the time I was incredibly hyped for Other M. Then I got an early copy, before reviews were even out, and I was ecstatic... Then I finally played it and about two hours in I realized I wasn't having fun at all, and the rest of the game was a painful, but educational slog.
Other M taught me what I love in Metroid games and what I could never stand in them lmao. I don't own a copy anymore but I'd probably pick it up for 15$ if only to "study" it further lol.
But anyway! I finished Zero Mission tonight, and it's so much better than I remember. It's a pity it gives you so many hints, because I think out of the 2D ones it has the most playful and self-explanatory world.
I got so caught up in the Metroid hype that I unintentionally convinced my girlfriend to give the series a try by not shutting up about it and now she's loving ZM too haha. Now we're both looking forward to Samus Returns!
Other M taught me what I love in Metroid games and what I could never stand in them lmao. I don't own a copy anymore but I'd probably pick it up for 15$ if only to "study" it further lol.
But anyway! I finished Zero Mission tonight, and it's so much better than I remember. It's a pity it gives you so many hints, because I think out of the 2D ones it has the most playful and self-explanatory world.
I got so caught up in the Metroid hype that I unintentionally convinced my girlfriend to give the series a try by not shutting up about it and now she's loving ZM too haha. Now we're both looking forward to Samus Returns!
Instead I really think it was a very good packaged action game.
I can understand the criticism against its art direction and atmosphere (I dind't like them neither) but the cinematic approach, the super polished graphic and the gameplay mechanics with their camera changes and their depth twists were very fun and engaging
I am really happy Samus Returns keeps some of these aspects that made a step in the modern direction I'd like them to keep from now on (at least for the non-prime/non-first-person-camera iterations)
I don't think it's so much defending it as defending the idea that it could have been made to work.
It's not an idea without any merit and I think that it could have even been interesting if explored in the right way.
I'm also saying this even though I don't have the words to describe how much I loathe Other M.
It's fascinating and productive to keep your mind open and find potential good in the bad. Even without actually thinking it's good.
Triforce141
Member
The scene would've been better executed if Ridley did a surprise attack on Samus and dragged her across the wall before the infamous breakdown occurred. She wouldn't have any of her powers for that moment due to the Power Suit being gone and this would've been the first time Samus faces Ridley without any weaponery, making the sense of fear more sensible
Though saying the scene would be better is being too generous, it would've still been stupid
To be fair we can't possibly know her reaction when she faces Ridley in the other games.
You are forgetting that the Metroid in BSL research station where breed and their evolution where speed up. Who knows what other tinkering the Galactic Federation have done there if they where let alone? I don't think the way they did it in the bottle ship was so good to have no weakness against ice.
Also Prime games IS a lot more inconsistent than the mainline Metroid games.
I feel there's enough in the Prime games to infer that Samus wasn't losing her shit when faced with Ridley. Hell, she seems to be more angry than anything when Ridley escapes the Orpheon in the first Prime. That game would be especially important since canonically it would have been the first time Ridley seemingly returned from the dead.
Granted, it's not laid completely bare, so I suppose there's room for interpretation.
I always hated that excuse. It's a work of fiction, a videogame at that. In it her reaction is exactly what you get. We know what her reaction is, exactly the same as it is with everything else, look it's a big monster attacking I'm going to kill it.
And if I'm not mistaken, the manga came out a little bit before Zero Mission. Funny how there was no cartoon cutaway to Samus shutting down in front of Ridley.
psychowave
Member
I guess the reasoning is "well the pre-Other M games (chronologically speaking) didn't have any narrative because of technical limitations so she could have been freaking the fuck out when fighting Ridley for all we know".
There's two problems with this. First, the first Metroid game got a remake with cutscenes that show important plot points. Samus gets a cutscene before fighting Ridley and she doesn't exactly look like someone who just had her PTSD triggered.
Second, while the narrative is very sparse in Super Metroid, it is there, and I'm sure they could've figured out a way to make Samus look stressed about fighting Ridley if they really cared about Samus having PTSD. But they didn't because Samus's PTSD is just Sakamoto's way of using a serious mental health issue as a tool to make Samus seem like a weak little woman who needs a big man to save her from the mean purple lizard.
It was a device to create a comeback moment for Samus. Minutes later you have her beating Ridley's ass harder than ever.
You have similar moments in other games a pieces of media with male characters: see shut-in Cloud in FFVII, to name one.
Vampirolol
Member
That's exactly how I see it: an uninspired plot device but nothing sexist or story-ruining. Other M has many other worse problems, even story wise.
I think a clear warning should be made:
Those that persistently defend awful story choices, focus-group pandering and lazy writing, run the risk of frustrating and driving away those that make some very valid, level-headed criticisms against recent entries in the Metroid series.
This essentially happened to Halo. A small group of angry loyalists fiercely defended every awful decision that 343i made in Halo 4, and essentially let them get away with murder: people were so fed up of having their criticisms being drowned out that they abandoned the series completely.
With regards to the PSTD comment. Yes, sure it makes sense given the context that Samus might struggle with that; however, any competent spin doctor can make any bad design choice 'make sense' given the context. The real question people should be asking is whether it was necessary in the first place to even put Samus and PTSD together, given that there has been no evidence for it across the series. I feel that the answer is a sharp "no". Ultimately, did anything good come from that story decision? I do not think so. It's also particularly damning when given context to all of the other problems in Other M: the most stark being the complete destruction of immersion when comparing Samus's actions in cut-scenes versus gameplay itself.
